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    Default [3.R] Rizban's Revised Monk

    Rizban's Revised Third Edition
    Spoiler: Table of Contents
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    —• Introduction
    ——• Project Goals
    ——• Design Paradigm
    ——• Credits and Acknowledgments

    —• Races
    ——• Human
    ——• Dwarf
    ——• Elf
    ——• Gnome
    ——• Half-Elf
    ——• Half-Orc
    ——• Halfling
    —• Classes
    ——• Barbarian
    ——• Bard
    ——• Cleric
    ——• Druid
    ——• Fighter
    ——• Monk
    ——• Paladin
    ——• Ranger
    ——• Rogue
    ——• Sorcerer
    ——• Wizard
    ——• Psion
    —• Skills
    ——• Academics
    ——• Acrobatics
    ——• Arcane Lore
    ——• Athletics
    ——• Deception
    ——• Engineering
    ——• Handle Animal
    ——• Heal
    ——• Insight
    ——• Intimidate
    ——• Linguistics
    ——• Natural Lore
    ——• Perception
    ——• Perform
    ——• Persuasion
    ——• Profession
    ——• Psi Lore
    ——• Stealth
    ——• Streetwise
    ——• Theology
    —• Feats
    —• Equipment and Supplies
    —• Adventuring and Combat
    —• Magic and Spells


    Monk
    Alignment: Any lawful

    Base
    Fort Ref Will Unarmed Maneuvers Maneuvers Stances
    Attack Bonus
    Save Save Save
    Special
    Damage Known Readied Known
    1st
    +0
    +2 +2 +2
    AC bonus, flurry of blows (-2), unarmed strike
    1d6 4 2 -
    2nd
    +1
    +3 +3 +3
    Evasion
    1d6 5 2 1
    3rd
    +2
    +3 +3 +3
    Still mind
    1d6 6 3 1
    4th
    +3
    +4 +4 +4
    Ki strike +1
    1d8 7 3 1
    5th
    +3
    +4 +4 +4
    Purity of body, flurry of blows (-1)
    1d8 8 4 2
    6th
    +4
    +5 +5 +5
    Wholeness of body
    1d8 9 4 2
    7th
    +5
    +5 +5 +5
    Ki strike (lawful)
    1d8 10 5 2
    8th
    +6/+1
    +6 +6 +6
    Ki strike +2
    1d10 11 5 2
    9th
    +6/+1
    +6 +6 +6
    Improved evasion, flurry of blows (-0)
    1d10 12 5 3
    10th
    +7/+2
    +7 +7 +7
    Improved flurry
    1d10 13 6 3
    11th
    +8/+3
    +7 +7 +7
    Diamond body
    1d10 14 6 3
    12th
    +9/+4
    +8 +8 +8
    Ki strike +3
    2d6 15 7 3
    13th
    +9/+4
    +8 +8 +8
    Diamond soul
    2d6 16 7 3
    14th
    +10/+5
    +9 +9 +9
    Ki strike (adamantine)
    2d6 17 7 4
    15th
    +11/+6/+1
    +9 +9 +9
    —
    2d6 18 8 4
    16th
    +12/+7/+2
    +10 +10 +10
    Ki strike +4
    2d8 19 8 4
    17th
    +12/+7/+2
    +10 +10 +10
    Timeless body
    2d8 20 9 4
    18th
    +13/+8/+3
    +11 +11 +11
    Greater flurry
    2d8 21 9 4
    19th
    +14/+9/+4
    +11 +11 +11
    —
    2d8 22 9 4
    20th
    +15/+10/+5
    +12 +12 +12
    Ki strike +5, perfect self
    2d10 23 10 5

    Hit Die: d8
    Class Skills (4 + Int modifier per level, Χ2 at 1st level): Academics (Int), Acrobatics (Dex), Arcane Lore (Int), Athletics (Str), Insight (Wis), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Persuasion (Cha), Profession (Wis), Stealth (Dex), and Theology (Int).

    Class Features
    All of the following are class features of the Monk.

    Weapon and Armor Proficiency
    Monks are proficient with their unarmed strike as well as club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, and sling. Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields.

    Being Centered
    A centered state of being is important to a monk. A monk becomes uncentered when her ki cannot flow properly, often causing her to become clumsy and awkward. An monk who is not centered loses her ability to use a number of her special abilities.

    In order to remain centered, a monk must not wear armor or a shield, must not be encumbered by more than a light load, and must not be armed with any weapon that isn't a special monk weapon (the list of weapons the monk class is normally proficient with).

    Maneuvers
    A monk uses martial maneuvers, which are drawn from the following disciplines: Desert Wind, Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, and Tiger Claw. A monk must choose and ready her maneuvers in advance.

    A monk can ready only a limited number of her maneuvers at a time. Her allotment is given on the table. A monk requires five minutes of meditation to ready her maneuvers, after which they remain readied until she mediates again to change them. She does not require a period of rest or sleep to ready her maneuvers.

    A monk always begins each encounter with all readied maneuvers available. When she initiates a maneuver, it is expended for the current encounter, so each maneuver can be used only once per encounter. However, a monk can recover one of her expended maneuvers by spending a full-round action to focus and recenter herself. A monk must be centered to recover maneuvers during an encounter.

    A monk has a limited number of maneuvers known. She begins play knowing 5 maneuvers of her choice from her available disciplines, learning one new maneuver at each level as shown on the table. A monk must meet and special requirements of a maneuver she wishes to learn.

    Upon reaching 4th level, and at every even-numbered monk level after that (6th, 8th, etc.), a monk can choose to learn a new maneuver in place of one she already knows. In effect, the monk "loses" the old maneuver in exchange for the new one. The new maneuver's level may be of any level that the monk has available. A monk may swap only a single maneuver at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains a new maneuver known for the level.

    Stances
    At 2nd level, a monk gains a stance known. She gains additional stances known as given on the table. Unlike maneuvers, stances are not readied or expended. A monk can change between the stances she knows as a swift action, and the stance remains active until she changes stances, deactivates the stance, falls unconscious, or is killed.

    AC Bonus (Ex)
    While centered, a monk adds her Wisdom bonus, if any, to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level). These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.

    Flurry of Blows (Ex)
    While centered, a monk may strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. When doing so, she may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the monk might make before her next action. When a monk reaches 5th level, the penalty lessens to -1, and at 9th level it disappears. A monk may make a flurry of blows with any attack, including a special attack or martial maneuver.

    She may attack with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons interchangeably as desired. When using weapons as part of a flurry of blows, a monk applies her Strength bonus (not Str bonus Χ 1½ or Χ½) to her damage rolls for all successful attacks, whether she wields a weapon in one or both hands.

    When a monk reaches 10th level, her flurry of blows ability improves. In addition to the standard single extra attack she gets from flurry of blows, she gets a second extra attack at her full base attack bonus. At 18th level, she gets a third extra attack at her full base attack bonus. She may make all of these extra attacks at any time she can normally make a flurry of blows.

    Unarmed Strike (Ex)
    At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk's attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a monk may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is normally no such thing as an off-hand attack for a monk striking unarmed (but see the Two-Weapon Fighting feat). A monk may apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.

    Usually a monk's unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but she can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on her attack roll. She has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

    A monk's unarmed strike normally deals bludgeoning damage; however, the monk can spend a swift action to change her combat style slightly, allowing her to deal either bludgeoning, piercing, or slashing damage. Her unarmed strike deals the chosen type of damage until she spends another swift action to change the damage type again.

    A monk's unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

    A monk also deals more damage with her unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown on the table. The unarmed damage on the table is for Medium monks.

    Evasion (Ex)
    At 2nd level or higher if a monk makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if a monk is centered. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of evasion.

    Still Mind (Ex)
    A monk of 3rd level or higher gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against spells and effects from the school of enchantment.

    Ki Strike (Su)
    At 4th level, a centered monk's attacks are empowered with her ki. While centered, her attacks gain a +1 enhancement bonus to attack and damage. This bonus increases by +1 every four monk levels thereafter. This bonus applies to both her unarmed strike and any special monk weapons she wields; however, this ability does not stack with any enhancement bonus of a weapon she wields.

    At 7th level, her attacks are also treated as lawful weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. At 14th level, her attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction and bypassing hardness.

    Purity of Body (Ex)
    At 5th level, a monk gains immunity to disease.

    Wholeness of Body (Su)
    At 6th level or higher, a monk can heal her own wounds. She can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to twice her current monk level each day, and she can spread this healing out among several uses.

    Improved Evasion (Ex)
    At 9th level, a monk's evasion ability improves. She still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth she takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless monk does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

    Diamond Body (Su)
    At 11th level, a monk gains immunity to poisons of all kinds.

    Timeless Body (Ex)
    Upon attaining 17th level, a monk no longer takes penalties to her ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that she has already taken, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the monk still dies of old age when her time is up.

    Perfect Self
    At 20th level, a monk becomes a magical creature. She is forevermore treated as an outsider, rather than as her original creature type, for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Additionally, the monk gains damage reduction 10/–, which allows her to ignore the first 10 points of damage from any attack made by a weapon or by natural attack. Unlike other outsiders, the monk can still be brought back from the dead as if she were a member of her previous creature type.


    Ex-Monks
    A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities.
    Last edited by Rizban; 2018-12-19 at 01:46 AM.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Monk

    Monk Alternative Class Features
    Soulknife
    The spark of psionic potential within leads the soulknife monk along a different path than most.

    Level: 1st
    Replaces: A soulknife monk loses flurry of blows, unarmed strike, and all maneuvers and stances.
    Benefit:
    Class Skills
    A soulknife gains Psi Lore as a class skill.

    Power Points/Day
    A soulknife's ability to manifest powers is limited by the power points he has available. His base daily allotment of power points is given on the table. In addition, he receives bonus power points per day if he has a high Wisdom score.

    Powers Known
    A soulknife knows one power of his choice. Each time he achieves a new level thereafter, he unlocks the knowledge of a new power. He chooses his powers known from the psychic warrior power list. A soulknife can manifest any power that has a power point cost equal to or lower than his manifester level.

    The total number of powers a soulknife can manifest in a day is limited only by his daily power points.

    A soulknife simply knows his powers; they are ingrained in his mind. He does not need to prepare them (in the way that some spellcasters prepare their spells), though he must get a good night's sleep each day to regain all his spent power points.

    The Difficulty Class for saving throws against soulknife powers is 10 + the power's level + the soulknife's Wisdom modifier.

    Maximum Power Level Known
    A soulknife has the ability to learn 1st-level powers. As he attains higher levels, he may gain the ability to master more complex powers as shown on the table. To learn or manifest a power, a soulknife must have a Wisdom score of at least 10 + the power's level.

    Mind Blade (Su)
    As a move action, a soulknife can create a semisolid blade composed of psychic energy distilled from his own mind. He must be centered to generate a mind blade.

    The blade is identical in all ways (except visually) to a special monk weapon of a size appropriate for its wielder chosen when the mind blade is shaped. For instance, a Medium soulknife materializes a Medium mind blade as a kama. He can wield it as a light weapon, and the blade deals 1d6 points of damage (crit Χ2), and it can be used to make trip attacks.

    The wielder of a mind blade gains the usual benefits to his attack roll and damage roll from a high Strength bonus.

    The blade can be broken (it has hardness 10 and 10 hit points); however, a soulknife can simply create another on his next move action. The moment he relinquishes his grip on his blade, it dissipates (unless he intends to throw it; see below). A mind blade is considered a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

    A soulknife can use feats such as Power Attack or Combat Expertise in conjunction with the mind blade just as if it were a normal weapon. He can also choose mind blade for feats requiring a specific weapon choice, such as Weapon Specialization. Powers or spells that upgrade weapons can be used on a mind blade.

    A soulknife's ki strike ability applies to his mind blade.

    Even in places where psionic effects do not normally function, a soulknife can attempt to sustain his mind blade by making a DC 20 Will save. On a successful save, the soulknife maintains his mind blade for a number of rounds equal to his class level before he needs to check again. On an unsuccessful attempt, the mind blade vanishes. As a move action on his turn, the soulknife can attempt a new Will save to rematerialize his mind blade while he remains within the psionics negating effect.

    Weapon Focus (Mind Blade)
    A soulknife gains Weapon Focus (mind blade) as a bonus feat at 1st level.

    Throw Mind Blade (Ex)
    A soulknife of 2nd level or higher can throw his mind blade as a ranged weapon with a range increment of 30 feet. Whether or not the attack hits, a thrown mind blade then dissipates.

    Psionic Centering (Ex)
    Starting at 3rd level, a soulknife who is centered can gain psionic focus as a move action.
    Power Max
    Points
    /Day
    Powers
    Known
    Level Known
    1st 1 1 1st
    2nd 2 2 1st
    3rd 3 3 1st
    4th 5 3 1st
    5th 7 4 2nd
    6th 11 5 2nd
    7th 15 6 2nd
    8th 19 6 2nd
    9th 23 7 3rd
    10th 27 8 3rd
    11th 35 9 3rd
    12th 43 9 3rd
    13th 51 10 4th
    14th 59 11 4th
    15th 67 12 4th
    16th 79 12 4th
    17th 91 13 4th
    18th 103 14 4th
    19th 115 15 5th
    20th 127 16 5th


    Compatible ACFs
    The following alternative class features from official sources are fully compatible with this class.
    • Decisive Strike (PHB2)
    • Damage Reduction (Unearthed Arcana)
    • Feign Death (Exemplars of Evil)
    • Invisible Fist (Exemplars of Evil)
    • Prayerful Meditation (Complete Champion)
    • Spell Reflection (Complete Mage)
    • Warforged Monk (Eberron Campaign Setting/City of Stormreach)

    Modified ACFs
    The following alternative class features from official sources are not fully compatible with this class and require some modification. Substitution features not listed are as written.
    • Water Step (Stormwrack)
    • Broken One (Champions of Valor)
    • Dark Moon Disciple (Champions of Valor)
    • Draconic Fist (Dragon Magic)
    • Halfling Monk (Races of the Wild)
    • Hin Disciple (Champions of Valor)
    • Holy Strike (Complete Champion)
    • Kalashtar Monk (Races of Eberron)
    • Phoenix Disciple (Champions of Valor)
    • Planar Monk (Planar Handbook)
    • Skarn Monk (Magic of Incarnum)
    • Soulwarp Strike (Complete Mage)
    • Wall Walker (Dungeonscape)

    Spoiler: Modified ACFs
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    Water Step
    A monk can learn this ability as a maneuver known.
    Spoiler: Water Step
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    Water Step
    Monk (Boost)
    Level: Monk 1
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 1 minute or until discharged

    You focus your ki into the bottoms of your feet, allowing you to dance across the water's surface for a time.

    When you initiate this maneuver, you are able to move across water as if it were solid ground. The maximum distance you can move is 5 feet per initiator level. You may divide this movement up across multiple rounds, up to a duration of 1 minute. You must begin and end each movement on solid ground and may not stop moving on the water's surface, otherwise, you immediately fall in.
    This is a supernatural effect.

    Broken One
    Tenacious Tracker (Su): This benefit replaces the maneuver known gained by a monk at 6th level.

    Locate Creature (Sp): This class feature is gained at 6th level but is otherwise unchanged.

    Dark Moon Disciple
    Shadow Blend (Su): This class feature is gained at 6th level but is otherwise unchanged.

    Walk the Shadows (Su): This benefit replaces the maneuver known gained by a monk at 12th level. It can be used once per encounter and refreshed as a maneuver.

    Draconic Fist
    A monk with this alternate class feature loses one maneuver known at 1st level.

    Halfling Monk
    Weapon Finesse: This benefit replaces the maneuver known gained by a monk at 2nd level.

    Size Matters Not (Ex): This class feature is gained at 6th level but is otherwise unchanged.

    Hin Disciple
    Underfoot Combat: This benefit replaces one maneuver known gained by a monk at 1st level.

    Blur of Motion (Ex): This benefit replaces the maneuver known gained by a monk at 6th level.

    Holy Strike
    The extra damage from this ability is 1d6 per 4 monk levels. The monk loses the enhancement bonus to attack and damage from her ki strike.

    Kalashtar Monk
    Bonus Psionic Feat: This ability is removed.

    Wholeness of Body (Su): This class feature is gained at 6th level but is otherwise unchanged.

    Phoenix Disciple
    Purifying Flame (Su): The damage from this ability is 1d6 per five class levels. The damage is half fire and half sacred.
    This benefit replaces one maneuver known gained by a monk at 1st level.

    Fire Stride (Su): This benefit replaces the maneuver known gained by a monk at 12th level. It can be used once per encounter and refreshed as a maneuver.

    Planar Monk
    Ki Strike (Su): This class feature is gained at 14th level but is otherwise unchanged.

    Skarn Monk
    Defensive Insight (Su): The monk gains 1 essentia per 5 class levels.

    Shape Soulmeld (Su): This class feature is gained at 7th level but is otherwise unchanged.

    Chakra Bind (Arms): This class feature is gained at 7th level but is otherwise unchanged.

    Soulwarp Strike
    A monk with this alternate class feature loses one maneuver known at 1st level.

    Wall Walker
    A monk can learn this ability as a maneuver known.
    Spoiler: Wall Walker
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    Wall Walker
    Monk (Boost)
    Level: Monk 1
    Initiation Action: 1 swift action
    Range: Personal
    Target: You
    Duration: 1 minute or until discharged

    You focus your ki into the bottoms of your feet, allowing you to run across walls without slipping off.

    When you initiate this maneuver, you are able to move across vertical surfaces without the need for a Climb check. The maximum distance you can move is 5 feet per initiator level. You may divide this movement up across multiple rounds, up to a duration of 1 minute. You must begin and end each movement on flat ground or other suitable foothold. Otherwise, you must make a successful Climb check or immediately fall.
    This is a supernatural effect.

    Incompatible ACFs
    The following alternative class features from official sources are compatible with this class at all.
    • Fast Movement to Swim (Stormwrack) – This class does not gain fast movement.
    • Standing Jump (Dungeonscape) – This class does not gain fast movement.
    • Eberron Monk (Eberron Campaign Setting) – This class does not gain bonus feats. Monastic Training does not exist as a feat, because the monk does not have multiclassing restrictions.
    • Monk Fighting Styles (Unearthed Arcana) – This has been reworked completely.
    Last edited by Rizban; 2018-12-19 at 01:49 AM.
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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Monk

    If the maneuvers can allow movement + furry of blows, a way to compensate for poor to-hit bonus, a better way to defend against the to-hit creep that is usually the trademark of 3.X, compensations for the lack of enhancement bonuses... you just might pull off the monk.

    What will they look like?

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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Monk

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorum View Post
    If the maneuvers can allow movement + furry of blows, a way to compensate for poor to-hit bonus, a better way to defend against the to-hit creep that is usually the trademark of 3.X, compensations for the lack of enhancement bonuses... you just might pull off the monk.

    What will they look like?
    Yes, that's how this flurry works. You can flurry with any attack, as long as you are centered.
    If you're worried about to hit, sapphire nightmare blade and shadow blade technique are good early maneuvers.
    Add the lower AC from armor in this revision project (it uses the Armor as DR variant), I think that works out.
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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Monk

    I don't think the swordsage's maneuver recovery method is a good one. From what I understand, swordsages typically actually recover their maneuvers by using the Adaptive Style feat.

    Instead of the normal AC bonus, I'd recommend an ability called "Ki Armor." It provides an armor bonus to AC equal to 4 + 1/3 your monk level. Being an armor bonus, it doesn't stack with any actual armor worn.

    Wisdom to AC I'd then save for a later level. When it is given, I'd have the maximum dexterity bonus of any armor worn apply to the sum of dex and wis. This provides an incentive to eschew armor, without being so heavy-handed as to forbid wearing armor.

    I don't see any particular reason that Ki Strike couldn't be allowed to apply to monk weapons too. I mean, why do we go to all the trouble of having special monk weapons if we're going to set it up so that they never get used after a certain level?

    And on the subject of allowing monk weapons to be viable at high level, how about a class feature that allows you to use your unarmed damage in place of the weapon's normal damage figure? So a kama wielded by a 20th-level monk would deal 2d10 damage.

    Now, of course, we wouldn't want to go so far as to ensure that no monk ever usel actual unarmed strikes. And real weapons have the advantage of being easier to enchant. So unarmed strikes still need some kind of exclusive. I think the Versatile Unarmed Strike ability could remain an unarmed-only thing. The overcoming DR thing too.

    Have you considered adding the ability to bypass DR as if silver and cold iron? I feel like we don't want to force monks to switch over to manufactured weapons whenever they encounter specific enemies. And bypassing all the common DR types would help with that.

    For the Versatile Unarmed Strike ability, I think you could allow switching damage types as a free action, and it wouldn't be a problem. Heck, go ahead and use wording that allows you to change on individual attacks of opportunity too. As long as it's just one damage type at a time. Though I would push the ability back later than 1st level. Maybe grant "Tiger Claw" at 3rd level, then "Spear Hand" at 6th level.

    I feel like Still mind is an ability that doesn't need to be there. I mean, "+2 to saves against a specific thing" is the sort of thing I try to avoid when homebrewing. I've also never understood why monks got Wholeness of Body. And with this revision in particular, if you want monks to be able to heal, you could just give them access to the devoted spirit discipline.

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    DwarfClericGuy

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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Monk

    Here we go:

    Class is still MAD as hell
    I would strongly recommend giving the ability to substitute, for some very specific functions, Wisdom for Strength, Dex OR Constitution. For example, Wisdom could replace Strength's to-hit and damage roll, but leave carrying capacity unaffected. Wisdom could replace various skill use, ranged attack rolls but leave initiative and reflex unaffected. Bumping Constitution could increase HP and time allowed before drowning yet leave Fortitude untouched.

    This choice would be made at character creation and cannot be changed.

    Fist count as Material means the monk is useless until the defense is useless
    Instead, give the monk Punch Through: When centered, a monk's unarmed attacks gains a penetration value equal to the monk's level. Each point of Penetration allows the monk to ignore 1 point of DR from non-adamantine armor, or half as much from other, typed sources. By spending 1 Ki point, for one round, the monk may treat all types of DR as DR from non-adamantine Armor for the purpose of Punch Through.

    Still Mind, Purity of Body, Diamond Body and Timeless Body are far more fluff than useful
    I would replace them all with: "Mens sana and corpore sano" (not a typo): Whenever the monk would be affected by a poison, a disease or a status effect such as shaken, fascinated or nauseated, he may spend 20% of his total HP (or 1 Ki), rounded up. If he does, he ignores the poison, disease or effect. This is a third level ability.

    As far as I know, a few wands / scrolls still make Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Insight (Wis), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Persuasion (Cha), Profession (Wis), Stealth (Dex) useless.
    Monks need to jump (or be thrown) high enough to land on a dragon, clear pits by running on a wall or stealth better than a wizard using invisibility. Maybe fuel those ability through Ki / monopolize maneuvers known and readied as those do not need to be free, but they need to be possible.


    I both love and hate Armor as DR
    It makes sense. It makes armor relevant past level 11 even if not maxed out. It makes you recalculate AC and DR of every monster you use only to make you realize it screwed up the maths so much encounters are still completely unbalanced. And assuming it is 100% like Pathfinder's Armor as DR rule, it somehow makes Gargantuan and Colossal creatures more unfair.


    As a side note, a 3/4 BaB and d8 Hit Dice always was completely retarded. Now that you add the "armor as DR" variant, it either is only fuel for power attack which serves to overcome DR, or somehow "AC" (which isn't armor anymore) is boosted by BaB or some other form of level progression in which case the fighter benefits way too much as comparison.

    Unless you want everyone to be completely dependent upon magic items for their defense which is, IMHO, the second worst sin of 3.X. The first being caster supremacy.
    Last edited by Gorum; 2018-06-15 at 02:50 AM.

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    .

    Ki Strike: is not enough by any measuring tool I know of.
    4th level characters have access to adamantine gear. Also, your Monk never adequately deals with Fey or Licanthrops.


    Wholeness of Body: is still next to worthless. You can boost it without hesitation.


    Why did you nix Slow Fall? In many Monk fixes I've seen it was even upgraded.
    I'd make it a (Su) effect that mimics the spell and is always active as long as the monk is awake.


    Oh, and lose the alignment restriction already.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    I don't think the swordsage's maneuver recovery method is a good one. From what I understand, swordsages typically actually recover their maneuvers by using the Adaptive Style feat.
    Monks can qualify for that feat under this revision. If I changed their recovery method, I'd want to change their maneuver progression as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    Instead of the normal AC bonus, I'd recommend an ability called "Ki Armor." It provides an armor bonus to AC equal to 4 + 1/3 your monk level. Being an armor bonus, it doesn't stack with any actual armor worn.

    Wisdom to AC I'd then save for a later level. When it is given, I'd have the maximum dexterity bonus of any armor worn apply to the sum of dex and wis. This provides an incentive to eschew armor, without being so heavy-handed as to forbid wearing armor.
    That weakens the ability, because armor bonuses don't apply to touch attacks. It also complicates the issue by having two very similar abilities that have different conditions as to when and how they apply. I'm really not a fan of that change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    I don't see any particular reason that Ki Strike couldn't be allowed to apply to monk weapons too. I mean, why do we go to all the trouble of having special monk weapons if we're going to set it up so that they never get used after a certain level?
    That's a good point. I think I'll apply that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    And on the subject of allowing monk weapons to be viable at high level, how about a class feature that allows you to use your unarmed damage in place of the weapon's normal damage figure? So a kama wielded by a 20th-level monk would deal 2d10 damage.

    Now, of course, we wouldn't want to go so far as to ensure that no monk ever usel actual unarmed strikes. And real weapons have the advantage of being easier to enchant. So unarmed strikes still need some kind of exclusive. I think the Versatile Unarmed Strike ability could remain an unarmed-only thing. The overcoming DR thing too.
    There's a magic item in Magic Item Compendium that allows unarmed damage to apply to weapons. I think that's something I'd like to keep in the realm of magic item rather than as class feature. I think there should be special weapons attuned to ki or something rather than just any/every weapon a monk picks up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    Have you considered adding the ability to bypass DR as if silver and cold iron? I feel like we don't want to force monks to switch over to manufactured weapons whenever they encounter specific enemies. And bypassing all the common DR types would help with that.
    Giving them the metalline ability had crossed my mind. I decided last minute not to grant it; however, I'm leaning towards adding it back in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    For the Versatile Unarmed Strike ability, I think you could allow switching damage types as a free action, and it wouldn't be a problem. Heck, go ahead and use wording that allows you to change on individual attacks of opportunity too. As long as it's just one damage type at a time. Though I would push the ability back later than 1st level. Maybe grant "Tiger Claw" at 3rd level, then "Spear Hand" at 6th level.

    I feel like Still mind is an ability that doesn't need to be there. I mean, "+2 to saves against a specific thing" is the sort of thing I try to avoid when homebrewing. I've also never understood why monks got Wholeness of Body. And with this revision in particular, if you want monks to be able to heal, you could just give them access to the devoted spirit discipline.
    I left Still Mind and Wholeness of Body intact and in place, because I was trying to maximize backwards compatibility. Those are used as prerequisites or are substituted out for other features frequently enough that I didn't want to scrap them and then need to rewrite a few dozen other things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorum View Post
    Class is still MAD as hell
    I would strongly recommend giving the ability to substitute, for some very specific functions, Wisdom for Strength, Dex OR Constitution. For example, Wisdom could replace Strength's to-hit and damage roll, but leave carrying capacity unaffected. Wisdom could replace various skill use, ranged attack rolls but leave initiative and reflex unaffected. Bumping Constitution could increase HP and time allowed before drowning yet leave Fortitude untouched.

    This choice would be made at character creation and cannot be changed.
    Yeah, but in the wider context of this revision, I feel like it'll work out okay. I'm also in the process of nerfing down the higher tier classes. My overall balance point for all classes is tier 3 or low tier 2. There's definitely going to be a rebalancing pass through after I get all the classes finished out and posted. For now, I'm going to leave it as it is.

    Adding Wisdom to specific rolls as you suggest, to me, seems like something that should come from feats or prestige classes. I may reconsider and add some of that into the base class, but it's something I'm going to want to think about some more as I work through the overall revision.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorum View Post
    Fist count as Material means the monk is useless until the defense is useless
    Instead, give the monk Punch Through: When centered, a monk's unarmed attacks gains a penetration value equal to the monk's level. Each point of Penetration allows the monk to ignore 1 point of DR from non-adamantine armor, or half as much from other, typed sources. By spending 1 Ki point, for one round, the monk may treat all types of DR as DR from non-adamantine Armor for the purpose of Punch Through.
    That's... That's actually a good idea! I'm going to think on that a bit and work something up. So, scrap my previous comments about adding in metalline. I'm going to do something along these lines instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorum View Post
    Still Mind, Purity of Body, Diamond Body and Timeless Body are far more fluff than useful
    I would replace them all with: "Mens sana and corpore sano" (not a typo): Whenever the monk would be affected by a poison, a disease or a status effect such as shaken, fascinated or nauseated, he may spend 20% of his total HP (or 1 Ki), rounded up. If he does, he ignores the poison, disease or effect. This is a third level ability.
    As I said above, I mostly kept these features for backwards compatibility with feats, prestige classes, and alternative class features. It's something I'm planning to address on a later pass through on the class as the overall system is further developed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorum View Post
    As far as I know, a few wands / scrolls still make Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Insight (Wis), Perception (Wis), Perform (Cha), Persuasion (Cha), Profession (Wis), Stealth (Dex) useless.
    Monks need to jump (or be thrown) high enough to land on a dragon, clear pits by running on a wall or stealth better than a wizard using invisibility. Maybe fuel those ability through Ki / monopolize maneuvers known and readied as those do not need to be free, but they need to be possible.
    That's just the case with magic. Rather than trying to give Monk the tools to compete in all situations that a tier 1 caster currently dominates on, I'll be toning down magic to reduce its overwhelming strength and flexibility. Monk does get maneuvers that allow for some things, and I'm no against giving them more that they can do. However, I think that at this exact moment, I need to wait until I get a few more classes polished and posted so that I can more accurately hit my intended balance point. Good thought though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorum View Post
    I both love and hate Armor as DR
    It makes sense. It makes armor relevant past level 11 even if not maxed out. It makes you recalculate AC and DR of every monster you use only to make you realize it screwed up the maths so much encounters are still completely unbalanced. And assuming it is 100% like Pathfinder's Armor as DR rule, it somehow makes Gargantuan and Colossal creatures more unfair.
    I'm not familiar with PF's version of the rule. I'm using 3.5's version, which doesn't have any modifications based on creature size. I do plan to eventually post a new version of every SRD monster for use with this revision so that DMs can use it without needing to convert on the fly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gorum View Post
    As a side note, a 3/4 BaB and d8 Hit Dice always was completely retarded. Now that you add the "armor as DR" variant, it either is only fuel for power attack which serves to overcome DR, or somehow "AC" (which isn't armor anymore) is boosted by BaB or some other form of level progression in which case the fighter benefits way too much as comparison.

    Unless you want everyone to be completely dependent upon magic items for their defense which is, IMHO, the second worst sin of 3.X. The first being caster supremacy.
    First off, I'm expecting AC to evade attacks entirely to be lower and rebalancing with that in mind. Second, I'm limiting the number of effects that grant attack bonuses outside of BAB and Str/Dex.

    I'm not using a built in defense bonus progression; however, some of the more martial classes are getting additional defensive benefits.
    Monk is intended to be the high AC/low DR class that dodges attacks but doesn't take hits well.
    Barbarian is the high DR/low AC class that gets hit more often but takes less damage.
    Fighter is the mid DR/mid AC class that sits between the two.

    Ranger will slot in between Monk and Fighter.
    Paladin will be between Fighter and Barbarian.
    Highest AC
    Lowest DR
    <----
    ---->
    Average AC
    Average DR
    <----
    ---->
    Lowest AC
    Highest DR
    Monk Ranger Fighter Paladin Barbarian
    At least, that's my design goal. It's probably not quite there yet, but I'm working towards it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Ki Strike: is not enough by any measuring tool I know of.
    As I said above, I'm limiting attack bonuses. This will be one of the very few ways I'm planning to give out direct enhancement bonuses to attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    4th level characters have access to adamantine gear. Also, your Monk never adequately deals with Fey or Licanthrops.
    I've responded to this above. I'm going to be developing a "punch through" type ability as Gorum suggested.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Wholeness of Body: is still next to worthless. You can boost it without hesitation.
    Good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by nonsi View Post
    Why did you nix Slow Fall? In many Monk fixes I've seen it was even upgraded.
    I'd make it a (Su) effect that mimics the spell and is always active as long as the monk is awake.
    Huh. I had thought that I'd put it in as a unique maneuver similar to how I handled the Water Step and Wall Walker ACFs, but... I apparently didn't post it. I'll get that posted up shortly. Until then, it's a 1st-level maneuver, activated as an immediate action, duration of 1 minute/until discharged, and reduces falling damage distance by 5ft/initiator level.
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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Monk

    why centering by the way? I can get some sort of flavor reason but it feels like restraining the class by littraly shoving you must LG to core to be paladin to monk class.
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    Quote Originally Posted by khadgar567 View Post
    why centering by the way? I can get some sort of flavor reason but it feels like restraining the class by littraly shoving you must LG to core to be paladin to monk class.
    Because saying, "you must be centered" is a lot easier than repeating "you must be unarmored, unencumbered, and unarmed or wielding a monk weapon" in most of the monk class features. It also makes adding things later like, "When using New-Thing-X, you can still use Monk abilities A, B, and C that you normally couldn't," much easier by just saying, "You remain centered while using New-Thing-X."

    It's a way to better define and explain the monk experience as well as giving a specific name to a design element that already existed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    That weakens the ability, because armor bonuses don't apply to touch attacks. It also complicates the issue by having two very similar abilities that have different conditions as to when and how they apply. I'm really not a fan of that change.
    Well, to some extent, I suggested it to reduce MAD. So a 1st-level monk wouldn't need an 18 in wisdom just to tie the AC of anyone else wearing a chain shirt.

    Also, to some extent, it was to ensure that monks start on the same level as everyone else, and work up from there. Rather than starting behind everyone else and playing catch-up.

    I didn't really see the ability as adding any complications. I figured a monk would already be getting someone to cast mage armor on him or wearing bracers of armor. So I thought this would make him less reliant on items and other party members.

    Now, I hadn't noticed you were using the armor-as-DR variant. That changes things somewhat, in that a monk now only need a 14 in wisdom to match the 1st-level AC of a lightly-armored class. Of course, if he sacrifices any dex to achieve that wisdom score, he's still coming out behind on AC. And he's doing worse on the DR front while probably not pulling ahead on the AC front until later levels. And he needs strength and constitution too, so he's still pretty MAD.

    As an aside, I want to make sure you realize that armor as DR inherently favors two-handed fighting, which is already the dominant fighting style. The DR applies per hit, so it's better to make fewer hits for more damage each, than more hits for less damage each. More specifically, everyone has -X AC and +X DR. The lower AC means people can power attack for more, and for two-handed fighters, that translates to +2X damage. Subtract out the DR, and that's still a net increase to damage.

    You've mentioned that you're going to give monk an ability to partially bypass DR, which helps as far as this specific class is concerned. Maybe you can give rogues some sort of ability to ignore DR on sneak attack. But I feel like rangers already had very little reason to use the two-weapon fighting style, even if they get it for free. And it would be kind of nice if each fighting style (two-handed, two-weapon, and sword-and-board) could be made viable for any melee character.

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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Monk

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    Well, to some extent, I suggested it to reduce MAD. So a 1st-level monk wouldn't need an 18 in wisdom just to tie the AC of anyone else wearing a chain shirt.

    Also, to some extent, it was to ensure that monks start on the same level as everyone else, and work up from there. Rather than starting behind everyone else and playing catch-up.

    I didn't really see the ability as adding any complications. I figured a monk would already be getting someone to cast mage armor on him or wearing bracers of armor. So I thought this would make him less reliant on items and other party members.

    Now, I hadn't noticed you were using the armor-as-DR variant. That changes things somewhat, in that a monk now only need a 14 in wisdom to match the 1st-level AC of a lightly-armored class. Of course, if he sacrifices any dex to achieve that wisdom score, he's still coming out behind on AC. And he's doing worse on the DR front while probably not pulling ahead on the AC front until later levels. And he needs strength and constitution too, so he's still pretty MAD.
    I'll give it further consideration. Not sure what the exact solution is at this point, but I'll work over some numbers as I make a pass through this class again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maat Mons View Post
    As an aside, I want to make sure you realize that armor as DR inherently favors two-handed fighting, which is already the dominant fighting style. The DR applies per hit, so it's better to make fewer hits for more damage each, than more hits for less damage each. More specifically, everyone has -X AC and +X DR. The lower AC means people can power attack for more, and for two-handed fighters, that translates to +2X damage. Subtract out the DR, and that's still a net increase to damage.

    You've mentioned that you're going to give monk an ability to partially bypass DR, which helps as far as this specific class is concerned. Maybe you can give rogues some sort of ability to ignore DR on sneak attack. But I feel like rangers already had very little reason to use the two-weapon fighting style, even if they get it for free. And it would be kind of nice if each fighting style (two-handed, two-weapon, and sword-and-board) could be made viable for any melee character.
    I'm aware of two-handed weapons being the dominant melee style, especially with the lower AC numbers inherent in the Armor as DR variant. Making the various combat styles viable is something I'm working to address. For a starting point, take note of the changes I've made to the Two-Weapon Fighting line of feats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    ...I do plan to eventually post a new version of every SRD monster for use with this revision...
    I suspect such an endeavor is gonna turn out hellishly long to complete.
    Try to figure a way within your project to make things converge so that you'd only need to add notes to certain monsters here and there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    I'll give it further consideration. Not sure what the exact solution is at this point, but I'll work over some numbers as I make a pass through this class again.
    My last comment had a solution to all this MADness: Have wisdom replace some uses of the physical stats. Edit: As a bonus, give the PCs a choice of the specific stat and enjoy how creative people will make diverse characters out of it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    I'm aware of two-handed weapons being the dominant melee style, especially with the lower AC numbers inherent in the Armor as DR variant. Making the various combat styles viable is something I'm working to address. For a starting point, take note of the changes I've made to the Two-Weapon Fighting line of feats.
    Once again, my last post actually answered this. DR is extremely effective against monks because it cuts a set amount of damage. Yet, martial artists are renowned for punching through wood and bricks. Give them an ability to partially ignore DR (at least from armor) and suddenly flurry of blows mean more than a metallic sounding drum solo.
    Last edited by Gorum; 2018-06-18 at 07:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    A monk may make a flurry of blows with any attack, including a special attack or martial maneuver.
    Uh, so a Monk can potentially apply the effects of a strike twice in one round? That doesn't seem right. Or am I misreading this?


    Also, honestly, I would just give the monk a flat armor bonus (say, +2 at first level, then increase by 1 every 4 levels) to help avoid staggeringly high AC when they inevitably do get things like Mage Armor and Shield. Then they also get to add their wisdom to make up for the armor bonus being relatively low, but the scaling dodge-esque bonus is replaced by the armor bonus. You can just flavor the armor bonus as the monk being good at blocking and deflecting blows in addition to being good at dodging them outright.


    I'm of the opinion that MAD should be balanced with versatility. Wizards and whatnot should be MAD while fighters and their ilk should be SAD. Unfortunately the opposite is true by default in 3.5
    This monk is more versatile due to martial maneuvers, so it's probably okay that they have some trouble there.


    I do feel that maneuvers cancel out the need to have full BAB, as evidenced by the swordsage.


    I would also like to add my voice to the chorus of 'armor as DR is a bad system', for making the best fighting styles better and the bad fighting styles worse. I get the idea, that armor should lessen damage received rather than being so binary, and that missing 90% of the time sucks, but flat DR is no good. I've looked at your TWF changes, and while they're good overall they do nothing to change the fact that armor as DR hurts them more than two-handing. It should be telling that the best solution for the monk to work in that system is to give them an ability that bypasses it.

    In an ideal world you could assign armor a percentage DR like many videogames do, but of course that's overly difficult to calculate for a tabletop game. I think the best tabletop systems on that front are the "pools of d6's" approach of games like Shadowrun, but that would be a very drastic change to D&D.
    Last edited by Anachronity; 2018-06-19 at 10:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Anachronity View Post
    Uh, so a Monk can potentially apply the effects of a strike twice in one round? That doesn't seem right. Or am I misreading this?
    No, it's more like the Snap Kick feat from Tome of Battle or the extra attack from Improved Trip. When you make an attack, you get an extra normal attack tacked on to the end of the attack routine.

    As an example, a 3rd-level Monk could use a standard action to activate the Clever Positioning maneuver. He makes his attack, swaps positions with his target, and then gets to throw in one extra punch at the end. You can't use the extra attack to initiate more maneuvers, as it's not an extra action.

    However, any effect that affects all attacks made in the round would affect the extra attack.
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    I'm not sure if this is intentional or not, but I think I've noticed a strange interaction.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Weapon and Armor Proficiency
    Monks are proficient with their unarmed strike as well as club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, siangham, and sling. Monks are not proficient with any armor or shields.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Being Centered
    A centered state of being is important to a monk. A monk becomes uncentered when her ki cannot flow properly, often causing her to become clumsy and awkward. An monk who is not centered loses her ability to use a number of her special abilities.

    In order to remain centered, a monk must not wear armor or a shield, must not be encumbered by more than a light load, and must not be armed with any weapon that isn't a special monk weapon (the list of weapons the monk class is normally proficient with).
    (Emphasis mine.)

    A monk can use flurry of blows with crossbows.
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    Default Re: [3.R] Rizban's Revised Monk

    Quote Originally Posted by Lyndworm View Post
    I'm not sure if this is intentional or not, but I think I've noticed a strange interaction.


    (Emphasis mine.)

    A monk can use flurry of blows with crossbows.
    Yep.123456789
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Yep.123456789
    But not a heavy crossbow, 'coz he'd have to reload it, right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizban View Post
    Yep.123456789
    Maybe it's my limited imagination, but I can't for the life of me visualize it.

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