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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Reach Weapon Questions

    I'm a bit confused as to how reach weapons work under a few conditions. Since a medium creature wielding a reach weapon can hit things 10' away, but not 5', does this mean that a large creature wielding a reach weapon can hit things 15-20' away but not 5-10'?

    Presuming that to be correct, what effects do Short Haft and Shorten Grip have for large creatures with reach weapons?

    Finally, how would these feats work in conjunction with Whirlwind Attack?

    As it stands, I have a binder PC who likes to use reach weapons while bound to Paimon (who grants Whirlwind Attack), I was considering either binding to Karsus at 8th level to get wands of Enlarge Person or taking a level in an arcane spellcasting class. Of course, before I do this, I should definitely make sure I know what effects my weapons will have!

    All help is greatly appreciated.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lord Tataraus's Avatar

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    Default Re: Reach Weapon Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaros View Post
    I'm a bit confused as to how reach weapons work under a few conditions. Since a medium creature wielding a reach weapon can hit things 10' away, but not 5', does this mean that a large creature wielding a reach weapon can hit things 15-20' away but not 5-10'?
    yes.

    Presuming that to be correct, what effects do Short Haft and Shorten Grip have for large creatures with reach weapons?
    Shorten Haft lets you reduce your reach by 5ft, so the large creature with a reach weapon threatens 10ft-15ft way. Shorten Grip removes a weapon's reach altogether (but not reach due to size), but with a -2 penalty.

    Finally, how would these feats work in conjunction with Whirlwind Attack?
    You can attack everyone you reach. However, you must activate either Short Haft or Shorten Grip beforehand if you wish to use their effects.

    With all these questions about reach weapons and polearms, I want to make a halberd wielding warblade with all these amazing feats!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Seffbasilisk's Avatar

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    Default Re: Reach Weapon Questions

    Large creatures with reach weapons can hit things 10-15 feet away, but not 5. Medium can hit 10ft, but not 5.

    Spiked chain, hits all in reach (15ft large, 10ft medium)

    Edit: Short Haft let'sm work like Spiked Chain I believe. Will investigate if I remember.
    Last edited by Seffbasilisk; 2007-09-08 at 03:20 PM.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Reach Weapon Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tataraus View Post
    Shorten Haft lets you reduce your reach by 5ft, so the large creature with a reach weapon threatens 10ft-15ft way. Shorten Grip removes a weapon's reach altogether (but not reach due to size), but with a -2 penalty.
    Shorten Haft allows you to treat a reach weapon as a non reach weapon. This means a large creature would be able to hit anything within 10ft as a large creature wielding a sword would. However, it takes a swift action to switch between different uses of the weapon.

    Shorten Grip allows you to hit adjacent squares as well as far away ones at the same time, at the cost of a -2 penalty to attacks. This means you can hit everything within 20ft at once, including in a whirlwind attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tataraus View Post
    You can attack everyone you reach. However, you must activate either Short Haft or Shorten Grip beforehand if you wish to use their effects.
    Short Haft involves switching how you hold the weapon as a swift action. Shorten Grip allows you to hit all areas, and requires on activation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tataraus View Post
    With all these questions about reach weapons and polearms, I want to make a halberd wielding warblade with all these amazing feats!
    I just finished my reach build. But of course, it relies on a Spiked Chain.

    Psychic Warrior X/Fighter 2/Exotic Weapon Master 2.

    With a Spiked Chain and Inhuman Reach that's everyone within 20ft. Add on Expansion and it becomes 30ft. Extend Range becomes 40ft. Augment Expansion gets that up to 60ft.

    Whirlwind attack everyone within 60ft? Yes Please.

  5. - Top - End - #5
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Reach Weapon Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Seffbasilisk View Post
    Large creatures with reach weapons can hit things 10-15 feet away, but not 5. Medium can hit 10ft, but not 5.

    Spiked chain, hits all in reach (15ft large, 10ft medium)

    Edit: Short Haft let'sm work like Spiked Chain I believe. Will investigate if I remember.
    Shorten Grip lets it be spiked chain at -2 penalty. Short Haft requires switching. Large get 20ft. Check the back of the DMG. They have mappings of reach for all sizes.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Reach Weapon Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelik View Post
    Shorten Haft allows you to treat a reach weapon as a non reach weapon. This means a large creature would be able to hit anything within 10ft as a large creature wielding a sword would. However, it takes a swift action to switch between different uses of the weapon.

    Shorten Grip allows you to hit adjacent squares as well as far away ones at the same time, at the cost of a -2 penalty to attacks. This means you can hit everything within 20ft at once, including in a whirlwind attack.
    This makes most sense to me as well. The attack penalty of Shorten Grip shouldn't be too much of a problem given the levels to which I intend to boost my PC's strength.

    I just finished my reach build. But of course, it relies on a Spiked Chain.

    Psychic Warrior X/Fighter 2/Exotic Weapon Master 2.

    With a Spiked Chain and Inhuman Reach that's everyone within 20ft. Add on Expansion and it becomes 30ft. Extend Range becomes 40ft. Augment Expansion gets that up to 60ft.

    Whirlwind attack everyone within 60ft? Yes Please.
    Gods. I thought I was bad. I'm using the Eberron-specific exotic scythe (as a martial weapon) with the 19-20/x4 threat range. Tossing in the Keen enchantment, Strongarm Bracers, and Enlarge Person, I'm looking at doing 3d8+10 damage per hit (17-20/x4) with +14 to hit (+12 with Shorten Grip) at level 8. Of course, I realize that I'm a total n00b when it comes to optimization.

    Another question: can I use Whirlwind Attack to trip everybody in range?

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Anxe's Avatar

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    Default Re: Reach Weapon Questions

    Whirlwind attack is everyone in one 5 foot section of your reach. So you can hit everyone who is 5' from you or everyone who is 10' from you. Improved Whirlwind Attack lets you hit everybody in your reach.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

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    Default Re: Reach Weapon Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Anxe View Post
    Whirlwind attack is everyone in one 5 foot section of your reach. So you can hit everyone who is 5' from you or everyone who is 10' from you. Improved Whirlwind Attack lets you hit everybody in your reach.
    Actually, Whirlwind is everyone within your reach, and Improved Whirlwind lets you make one attack per five points of BAB as a standard action.

  9. - Top - End - #9
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    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Reach Weapon Questions

    Where is Improved Whirlwind Attack?

    Another part of my build is many sets of Bracers of Opportunity that allow three extra AoO a day. Probably need a new one after every fight with a reach like I have.
    Last edited by Kaelik; 2007-09-08 at 05:48 PM.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Reach Weapon Questions

    Over here in epic-land

    Was whirlwind attack changed in 3.5? The language of Improved Whirlwind is strange, considering what regular whirlwind does now.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Reach Weapon Questions

    Short Haft is found the PHBII, yes? Where's Shorten Haft from?

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lord Tataraus's Avatar

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    Default Re: Reach Weapon Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyle View Post
    Short Haft is found the PHBII, yes? Where's Shorten Haft from?
    DR331 and the Dragon Compendium.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Troll in the Playground
     
    SamuraiGirl

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    Default Re: Reach Weapon Questions

    I've got a reach weapon question, unrelated tot he topic at hand, and it came up in my game earlier today.

    We've got a character with a 10' reach weapon, who is attacked by an orc. Said orc starts more than 10' away, and in the process of moving to attack, enters the area threatened by the reach weapon, and then out of it to attack,

    Now, I pointed out that this provoked an attack of opportunity, but we weren't sure,a nd the rules didn't totallly clarify it for us. The DM thought that since he was moving into a non-threatened suqare that couldn't be attacked by the player there was no AoO.

    Could anyone clarify this for us?
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  14. - Top - End - #14
    Banned
     
    OldWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Reach Weapon Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tataraus View Post
    DR331 and the Dragon Compendium.
    I do believe that is Shorten Grip. I think any instance of Shorten Haft in this thread is a mistake, but refers to Short Haft.

    Edit: Yes he provoked an attack of opportunity.

    Point out that according to his logic moving from adjacent to a Greatsword wielder to some distance away would not provoke AoO since you are moving to a square not threatened. The key is leaving a threatened square, it doesn't matter where they are going.
    Last edited by Kaelik; 2007-09-08 at 06:35 PM.

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Zincorium's Avatar

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    Default Re: Reach Weapon Questions

    AoOs happen any time you leave a threatened square by your own power without taking a 5' step or tumbling. The square you go to is irrelevant, the AoO 'goes off' when the target is still in the square you threaten, just prior to the actual movement.

    So yes, you should have gotten an attack of opportunity when the orc moved back out of your reach, assuming there was nothing else preventing it.
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  16. - Top - End - #16
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Reach Weapon Questions

    You get your attack of opportunity the moment anyone leaves your threatened square. With a spear, you threaten the squares 10' away from your character, so anyone who leaves that square - even to come closer to you - provokes the AOO before they leave that square.

    Otherwise, most reach weapons would be kind of useless. :P

    So yes, when the orc went from 10' to 5' away from you, he'd provoke an AOO upon leaving the 10' square.

    [Unless he took a 5' step or the withdraw action.]


    Provoking an Attack of Opportunity
    Two kinds of actions can provoke attacks of opportunity: moving out of a threatened square and performing an action within a threatened square.

    Moving
    Moving out of a threatened square usually provokes an attack of opportunity from the threatening opponent. There are two common methods of avoiding such an attack—the 5-foot step and the withdraw action.
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