Grrl Power IV: Constantly Expanded Universe

[Ibrinar]

Not until you bring real world examples into it.

Real world examples are always in such things you don't need to state them to be aware of them, which is partly why I brought it up, because the forum rules shield people from proper answers and imo if other people can't reply properly to your ethical stance because of forum rules you shouldn't state it to begin with.

[Dragonus45]

Real world examples are always in such things you don't need to state them to be aware of them, which is partly why I brought it up, because the forum rules shield people from proper answers and imo if other people can't reply properly to your ethical stance because of forum rules you shouldn't state it to begin with.

Pretty much this exactly, I see it all the time where people make some fairly bold claims that you just have to let go because actually replying to them runs straight into the “If you aren’t sure don’t post it to be safe.” philosophy even if the initial statement is clean enough on its own to pass by. Not that I think this bit about prison labor is on that line myself, I think it could be talked about on an ethical level without getting to much to the politics, but it’s somthing I see a lot of on the forums in general.

[Rogar Demonblud]

And Sydney again goes oh how horrible ooh shiny I'm completely happy to snark with you.

I still hold to one of my earliest posts. ARCHON should've padlocked that poster tube until they felt they had induced a fairly stable mindset on Sydney. The fact that this would also require physical training and a regulated diet, all of which would impact how well her meds function, plus weeks of classroom instruction on laws, warrants, military courtesy, rules of engagement, etc (which would also only be to the story's benefit).

Then you let her have the extremely dangerous toolset.

Right now it's too much like giving nitro and a fully loaded Tech-9 to a five year old.

[lord_khaine]

Or, and here is a thought. Armed people are always dangerous unless your someone like Achilles, a well placed shot before Sydney gets her shields up and she is down. And high tech weapons with that many people means that even Grrl Power Commander Sheperd can’t just laugh them off.

The difference between this and your argument is that the 11 year old and his rubber knife can't actually hurt a grown man in any way, but it's entirely possible those guns would be dangerous or even fatal if the muggers were given a chance to fire - thus incapacitating them was necessary. Cue the hilariously excessive force, which is probably Cora's personality rather than some inherent necessity; Cora outright says here that nonlethal attacks mean Dabbler is 'getting soft'.

Well.. my example said a dull knife.. not a rubber knife. But whatever. I still think my example is pretty representative of the situation.
Initially and most importantly, i will point out that Cora, the only person suited to accuratly judge the situation, broke down laughting.
Thats not normally the reaction from someone who thinks they are in danger, or even in risk of something unpleasant.

And by all accounts, then it seems like Cora is a person who have adventured with Dabbler. So if she is even close to her level of power, then it leaves her more powerful than the majority of Archon.
At that level, a few morons in a dark alley should not pose any sort of threat. How many of those have Batman not beaten?

They're punks, why would they listen or take the time to check her credentials when they already have her at gunpoint? Street thugs like that would be more likely to think she is bluffing and escalate their threat by hurting her or Sydney.

Because they are punks, not braindead? If they already have them at gunpoint, then its no risk for possible reward (in the form of avoiding something unpleasant), to check it out.
And they dont know if they have found a pair of undercover cops, or demons in disguise. Or Combat cyborgs. Or any number of other weird things thats just more trouble than its worth.

Plus and this is hard to over state, if you mug someone while armed your life is forfeit in that situation. Period.

No its very clearly easy to overstate? Your doing it right now
And at least i can say, my place dont have the death penalty for armed robbery. And clearly neither does the station.
If they had used said weapon then the situation would have been utterly different. But until then its not.
But.. your life is forfeit? honestly the only sort of place i can fit that in is in a judge dread dystopia.

[Dragonus45]

No its very clearly easy to overstate? Your doing it right now
And at least i can say, my place dont have the death penalty for armed robbery. And clearly neither does the station.
If they had used said weapon then the situation would have been utterly different. But until then its not.
But.. your life is forfeit? honestly the only sort of place i can fit that in is in a judge dread dystopia.

You confuse appropriate punishment after the fact with response to the mugging in that moment. You pull a lethal weapon on someone and that’s it, game over. The very act of pulling it out or implying you even have one is an absolute lethal threat. And I’m not just talking out of my ass in some hypothetical. I’ve worked in a pretty bad area at a local continence store where we had to have the stores gun belted visibly on us at all times. My coworker got robbed one time by a couple of guys who were only pretending to have a gun, it was just a hammer in the bag he was pretending was a gun. My ex marine coworker shot him twice, and fortunately the guy survived. But my friend doesn’t suddenly get blaimed because between his training and the security cameras outside letting him see them coming and have the gun in hand as they entered the store meant he was in zero danger in retrospect even leaving aside the fact they were unarmed. Now by your logic he should have just pulled the gun on them as they entered the store and explained they were outmatched and should leave and then hoped they didn’t decide to open fire. The person who’s life you are threatening has the next best thing to carte blanch to ensure they survive the situation with maximum safety margin so long as nothing unnecessarily cruel is done. You survive the situation and then you get a proportional response from the stations government.


Oh and as for that child with a knife scenario? Since there would be no way to just know the knife is dull there is a good chance that even a fully grown adult might wind up harming the child, such as a broken arm or wrist or even just a bad sprain, trying to wrestle that knife away SAFELY. Sure when it turns out the knife was a dud the whole time they could probably feel bad for it, but they would also be alive and safe to feel bad which is the main point here.

[Keltest]

And Sydney again goes oh how horrible ooh shiny I'm completely happy to snark with you.

I still hold to one of my earliest posts. ARCHON should've padlocked that poster tube until they felt they had induced a fairly stable mindset on Sydney. The fact that this would also require physical training and a regulated diet, all of which would impact how well her meds function, plus weeks of classroom instruction on laws, warrants, military courtesy, rules of engagement, etc (which would also only be to the story's benefit).

Then you let her have the extremely dangerous toolset.

Right now it's too much like giving nitro and a fully loaded Tech-9 to a five year old.

"let"? Short of sending Maxima to beat her into a bloody pulp, they cant really do a lot to keep her from using them, and they definitely don't want to and shouldn't go that far.

Besides, its not like they've been deliberately or willingly putting her in these situations.

[Traab]

And Sydney again goes oh how horrible ooh shiny I'm completely happy to snark with you.

I still hold to one of my earliest posts. ARCHON should've padlocked that poster tube until they felt they had induced a fairly stable mindset on Sydney. The fact that this would also require physical training and a regulated diet, all of which would impact how well her meds function, plus weeks of classroom instruction on laws, warrants, military courtesy, rules of engagement, etc (which would also only be to the story's benefit).

Then you let her have the extremely dangerous toolset.

Right now it's too much like giving nitro and a fully loaded Tech-9 to a five year old.

Sydney is not unstable. Easily distracted does not mean that the government can just steal her possessions until they feel she is good enough to have them back. They arent "giving" her anything, she is getting training in the proper use of what she already owns. Its been established that this government has no legal right to take away magical artifacts or incarcerate supers just for being strong unless they are a clear and present danger. Which means sydney would have to say "Mwahaha! With these orbs I shall rule the WORLD!!!" Or actually try to do so before archon could legally do anything about it. Having adhd is not just cause for stripping someone of their property.

[Rogar Demonblud]

And where did I say that ARCHON would be confiscating them? All I said was that the orbs should be locked in the poster tube. You know, the one Sydney spends about half of the first arc wearing like a bandolier?

And yes, Sydney is unstable. It's been repeatedly shown that her meds barely work on a good day. She'd have trouble getting a firearms permit even in this country, to say nothing of the rest of the world. ARCHON has a responsibility to make sure she's not a danger to herself and others, which fortunately also serves as an evaluation for recruitment potential. Or it would, if Arianna hadn't been playing PR games and forced everyone's hand.

[Keltest]

And where did I say that ARCHON would be confiscating them? All I said was that the orbs should be locked in the poster tube. You know, the one Sydney spends about half of the first arc wearing like a bandolier?

And yes, Sydney is unstable. It's been repeatedly shown that her meds barely work on a good day. She'd have trouble getting a firearms permit even in this country, to say nothing of the rest of the world. ARCHON has a responsibility to make sure she's not a danger to herself and others, which fortunately also serves as an evaluation for recruitment potential. Or it would, if Arianna hadn't been playing PR games and forced everyone's hand.

The difference is largely semantic. They have no right to tell her what to do with her property, and theyre they ones who tried to recruit her to begin with. Furthermore you are greatly exaggerating the level of danger she poses. She isn't stupid, she isn't a loose cannon, and she doesn't use the actually destructive orbs without serious cause.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Give her time. She's only known she could use them at all without being hauled away to a black site for extensive vivisection sessions for a few days. Most of which she's spent dashing from disaster to disaster. Seriously, the pace of this comic is ridiculous.

[Keltest]

Give her time. She's only known she could use them at all without being hauled away to a black site for extensive vivisection sessions for a few days. Most of which she's spent dashing from disaster to disaster. Seriously, the pace of this comic is ridiculous.

I seem to recall there being a whole press conference about how ARCHON wasn't going to be going after supers or attempting to regular their powers as long as they didn't violate existing laws with them.

[Rogar Demonblud]

And then they're shown later pressuring someone to sign on because of his unpaid parking tickets.

Truth is, we have no idea how this going to work once ARCHON is no longer in crisis mode. They stick in crisis mode long enough, though, history has shown that to lead towards conscription, impressment, etc., which then hang around long after they're no longer needed. So I'm not optimistic, even though we'll all be dead of old age long before the comic gets to that point.

[Keltest]

And then they're shown later pressuring someone to sign on because of his unpaid parking tickets.

Truth is, we have no idea how this going to work once ARCHON is no longer in crisis mode. They stick in crisis mode long enough, though, history has shown that to lead towards conscription, impressment, etc., which then hang around long after they're no longer needed. So I'm not optimistic, even though we'll all be dead of old age long before the comic gets to that point.

Well, presumably it will work the way they said it would work, being basically a super-powered disaster response unit. They are technically military, but they aren't training to be combatants.

[Dragonus45]

I thought they were something akin to the coast guard, a hybrid military and police outfit with a specific area of interest? Either way as annoying as her being the occasional spaz can be from a storytelling perspective since the joke is leaned on fairly hard she is about as good as it’s gonna get for who you would want holding those orbs short of a second Maxima, super disciplined capable soldier type person. She seems to be earnestly trying and outside of that one really aggravating moment with the two ships she almost took out she has been generally shown to treat the orbs with a decent amount of respect and she seems to be earnest about shaping herself up and leaving discipline even if the actual effort has fallen short for the couple of weeks(?) that the plot has been going on for.

[HMS Invincible]

Well, presumably it will work the way they said it would work, being basically a super-powered disaster response unit. They are technically military, but they aren't training to be combatants.

You're unfortunate at the mercy of the author here. Is Dave trying to foreshadow something? Do character development? Early installment weirdness because he wanted to see what sticks? Maybe he thinks Sidney ADHD behavior is funny and the audience doesn't get it. All we can do is see if we are entertained, and try not to go crazy with the head Canon trying to answer everything. If you can't, the comic will slowly lose/change viewers.

[lord_khaine]

You confuse appropriate punishment after the fact with response to the mugging in that moment. You pull a lethal weapon on someone and that’s it, game over. The very act of pulling it out or implying you even have one is an absolute lethal threat. And I’m not just talking out of my ass in some hypothetical. I’ve worked in a pretty bad area at a local continence store where we had to have the stores gun belted visibly on us at all times. My coworker got robbed one time by a couple of guys who were only pretending to have a gun, it was just a hammer in the bag he was pretending was a gun. My ex marine coworker shot him twice, and fortunately the guy survived. But my friend doesn’t suddenly get blaimed because between his training and the security cameras outside letting him see them coming and have the gun in hand as they entered the store meant he was in zero danger in retrospect even leaving aside the fact they were unarmed. Now by your logic he should have just pulled the gun on them as they entered the store and explained they were outmatched and should leave and then hoped they didn’t decide to open fire. The person who’s life you are threatening has the next best thing to carte blanch to ensure they survive the situation with maximum safety margin so long as nothing unnecessarily cruel is done. You survive the situation and then you get a proportional response from the stations government.

My sympathy. I can hear you actually do work in a horrible dystopia.
And yes i think its a rather crazy escalation of the violence. It creates a downward spiral that noone profits from.

Oh and as for that child with a knife scenario? Since there would be no way to just know the knife is dull there is a good chance that even a fully grown adult might wind up harming the child, such as a broken arm or wrist or even just a bad sprain, trying to wrestle that knife away SAFELY. Sure when it turns out the knife was a dud the whole time they could probably feel bad for it, but they would also be alive and safe to feel bad which is the main point here.

Yes.. ? How big is the difference between a sprained wrist or minor concussion to repeatedly stabbing someone in the eye with a broadsword.. ?
Cora certainly did not go with even the broken arm choice. Her first action were, and i quote the author "So presumably what happened during the fight was Sydney quickly put up her shield, but before she could figure out her next move, Cora shot one of the muggers with her Flay Thrower. Yeah, you read that right. Then Sydney spent the next thirty seconds trying to figure out if her bubble had a windshield wiper option."

Though regarding the orbs. I do think that so far Sydney has shown to be pretty responsible in how she handle her powers.
Yes she is a spaz. And yes she does annoye me often. But she dont use her orbs to be obnoxious. And so far the worst thing she has done with them were the air pocket thing.
In the pool.

[Traab]

And then they're shown later pressuring someone to sign on because of his unpaid parking tickets.

Truth is, we have no idea how this going to work once ARCHON is no longer in crisis mode. They stick in crisis mode long enough, though, history has shown that to lead towards conscription, impressment, etc., which then hang around long after they're no longer needed. So I'm not optimistic, even though we'll all be dead of old age long before the comic gets to that point.

They didnt pressure him to sign on due to unpaid tickets, the only one they recruited was jabberwocky. The rest either got let go due to the extenuating circumstances and lack of previous record, locked up like vehemence, or handed over to deus in the case of opal and vector because he vouched for them as employees of his. And again, having adhd isnt a crime worthy of restricting access to a persons own property. As for getting her gun license she has been working on an alternate version of military training for barely any time at all. Learning to assemble disassemble and maintain a gun is just one of a thousand things she has spent the last month or so at best on. If even that long. Her meds work fine, you just tend to see her going about VERY LONG DAYS when they do wear off after a few hours and she is a bit busy with more important things like NOT DYING to remember to take them on schedule. Bottom line, you have an incredibly odd inaccurate and illogical view of sydney, her actions, and the setting she is living in.

[Dragonus45]

My sympathy. I can hear you actually do work in a horrible dystopia.
And yes i think its a rather crazy escalation of the violence. It creates a downward spiral that noone profits from.

I would hardly call it a dystopia, sometimes people think that the cash we kept in the register was worth more then either our lives or theirs. That kind of thing is happening all over the world right now, it’s just life. And I’m a truck driver now anyways. Which isn’t exactly safer now that I think about it.

And as for some downward spiral where nothing gets better... crime dropped in the whole area after that whole area for the next couple years. As far as I know almost 7 years later till the store got shut down never got robbed again. Drive by next door but that was a whole separate bit silly teenage drama. Part of that is that they were already making an effort to clean the area up for the past year or so as it was but that was certainly the end of it.

Yes.. ? How big is the difference between a sprained wrist or minor concussion to repeatedly stabbing someone in the eye with a broadsword.. ?

Cora certainly did not go with even the broken arm choice. Her first action were, and i quote the author "So presumably what happened during the fight was Sydney quickly put up her shield, but before she could figure out her next move, Cora shot one of the muggers with her Flay Thrower. Yeah, you read that right. Then Sydney spent the next thirty seconds trying to figure out if her bubble had a windshield wiper option."

The difference is that there is an overwhelming physical advantage for a melee weapon and it’s still impossible to get it away without someone likely getting hurt. Add guns to the mix and then put in multiple attacker’s, which is itself a serious danger all of its own, and the only SAFE way to RELIABLY GARUNTEE that the victim in this situation lives to see another day is to hit fast with enough force to make certain that the person hit has zero chance to end your life back. And considering that they still had the gumption to fire back with enough fire power she needed to use a dumpster as a shield, and then as a batterinf ram. I’m not seeing where this suddenly goes off the rails into “stabbing a child with a broadsword”. As far as we know she isn’t super powered durable, just whatever tech is around for shielding but with some adventurer level upgrades and a lot of firepower at her disposal. Dave himself said she is a DPS character. The reason she was “Never in real danger” is because she has the firepower to kill the attacker’s very reliably before they kill her. This turns into a catch 22, she was never in real danger because she had the firepower to blow them all to smithereens before they can hurt her. But actually using it makes her to strong ebough she suddenly can’t ethically kill them because they never stood a chance and she carries big guns.

[Onyavar]

I would hardly call it a dystopia, sometimes people think that the cash we kept in the register was worth more then either our lives or theirs. That kind of thing is happening all over the world right now, it’s just life.

I really really hope you're wrong with your prognosis. But that's a discussion for the "debate world politics" thread, and we all know our rules.

All we can do is see if we are entertained, and try not to go crazy with the head Canon trying to answer everything. If you can't, the comic will slowly lose/change viewers.

You are talking about a comic that I don't think has left the top spot of this list in what, more than two years?

[HMS Invincible]

It's a popular comic, but I feel it's a Michael Bay movies of comics. Lots of T&A, CGI effects, and the plot is a vehicle for said cheesecake and CGI. But still heavily watched. My main point is a reader probably won't get much from analyzing the rationale behind the actions of each character. The author promised one liners and explosions delivered by well endowed drow-esque ladies. You aren't here to see an award winning drama or an infotainment disguised as entertainment like The Big Short.

Remember this is the same author who thought that headbutting herself cartoon style, was a legitimate way to show character growth. There's tons of similar cringe worthy attempts at 'humor' buried in the archives. Thank god the actions parts are better.

[Rogar Demonblud]

That has to do with how TWC allows members to stuff the ballot box, and premium members to really cram it full with a piledriver. It's not a reliable metric, which is why a lot of casual voters have been dropping off and many creators no longer have vote links (like the Giant).

[lord_khaine]

I would hardly call it a dystopia, sometimes people think that the cash we kept in the register was worth more then either our lives or theirs. That kind of thing is happening all over the world right now, it’s just life. And I’m a truck driver now anyways. Which isn’t exactly safer now that I think about it.

And as for some downward spiral where nothing gets better... crime dropped in the whole area after that whole area for the next couple years. As far as I know almost 7 years later till the store got shut down never got robbed again. Drive by next door but that was a whole separate bit silly teenage drama. Part of that is that they were already making an effort to clean the area up for the past year or so as it was but that was certainly the end of it.

It certainly seems like a dystopia to me. And personally i would assign more credits to whomever tried to clear the area up. If people dont care more about their life than cash, then the danger wont scare anyone off.

The difference is that there is an overwhelming physical advantage for a melee weapon and it’s still impossible to get it away without someone likely getting hurt. Add guns to the mix and then put in multiple attacker’s, which is itself a serious danger all of its own, and the only SAFE way to RELIABLY GARUNTEE that the victim in this situation lives to see another day is to hit fast with enough force to make certain that the person hit has zero chance to end your life back. And considering that they still had the gumption to fire back with enough fire power she needed to use a dumpster as a shield, and then as a batterinf ram. I’m not seeing where this suddenly goes off the rails into “stabbing a child with a broadsword”. As far as we know she isn’t super powered durable, just whatever tech is around for shielding but with some adventurer level upgrades and a lot of firepower at her disposal. Dave himself said she is a DPS character. The reason she was “Never in real danger” is because she has the firepower to kill the attacker’s very reliably before they kill her. This turns into a catch 22, she was never in real danger because she had the firepower to blow them all to smithereens before they can hurt her. But actually using it makes her to strong ebough she suddenly can’t ethically kill them because they never stood a chance and she carries big guns.

No.. for a normal person in that situation, the absolutely safest choice is to hand over your cash, then go home and file an ensurance claim.
Drawing a weapon, and turning it into a fight is actually the least reliable way to get out of it alive and unharmed. All it takes is a single miss or lucky hit and its game over.
The reason im saying that is that we did not have anyone dying in robberies this year.

And by all we can tell, they were just idiots with a few guns.
Cora is an extremely advanced combat cyborg with teleportation technology. Who by all accounts have adventured with Dabbler.
Since Dabbler is a power level 7 super who can fight Max to a draw, then i think the child with a dull knife analogy is quite apt.

So yes i feel completely justified in holding her to a different standard than a normal person.
Heck, i would even have cut her a bit of slack if she had pulled an Obi-Wan, and just vaporised the gun as well as the hand holding it.

[Forum Explorer]

For my 5 cents, Cora's actions may have been legal, but were brutal and reprehensible. I think she's simply become so used to violence and mayhem that she doesn't value the lives of opponents at all. Like after you slaughter hundreds to save a planet or the like, you likely stop really being concerned about blood on the floor.

Call it adventurer syndrome. Yeah, you could run non-lethal on your way through the BBEG's castle to confront him in an appropriately dramatic fashion. But you slaughter your way through regardless. You might spare someone harmless like a maid. But all those mooks with their swords and crossbows? If they wanted to live they should've found a better boss. I mean, their boss is doing something Big and Evil. It's not like there is a misunderstanding or mind control here. And they are trying to kill you, even if they don't actually have the ability to do so.

And after you've been in that situation a couple times, or even once, it bleeds over into all violent confrontations. You showed no mercy and faced no consequences so you just stop showing mercy.

[Dragonus45]

No.. for a normal person in that situation, the absolutely safest choice is to hand over your cash, then go home and file an ensurance claim.

Absolutely. Shame that’s not always an option, and eventually does always rely on the statistically sound but not absolute idea that the person threatening your life is not likely to kill you once they have deprived you of your property. Periphery which in this example there was no way you could let thugs like that just walk away with.

And by all we can tell, they were just idiots with a few guns.
Cora is an extremely advanced combat cyborg with teleportation technology. Who by all accounts have adventured with Dabbler.
Since Dabbler is a power level 7 super who can fight Max to a draw, then i think the child with a dull knife analogy is quite apt.

Idiots who still opened fire with enough firepower she had to use a dumpster as a shield, after she used tha Flay Thrower. As an aside I love that name, I totally need to work out how that would work for a space game at some point. She is a badass who clearly had access to heavy ordanance and also has some prosthetics that are more advanced then our own. From what Dave said the best way to describe her in Dabbler terms would be as the DPS to Dabbler’s rogue. You know, DPS? Those tanky folks known for shrugging off gunfire at a whim. You are literally declaring that her big guns disqualify her from actually using them because it would be unfair to the people threatening her with lethal weaponry. Once you hold a gun to someone else’s metaphorical head that person has the right to end you where you stand. If she had just pulled out a laser pistol and shot them all in the head they would be just as dead. Why does it matter that she used bigger guns in the firefight.

So yes i feel completely justified in holding her to a different standard than a normal person.
Heck, i would even have cut her a bit of slack if she had pulled an Obi-Wan, and just vaporised the gun as well as the hand holding it.

So you feel justified blaming the victims of a mugging with lethal weaponry for defending themselves from said lethal weapons in a way you don’t approve of. Good for you, I would feel justified in punting every pug dog on the face of this earth down the Grand Canyon while singing a happy tune. But that doesn’t suddenly make my personal and irrational hatred of the breed correct. I would hazard a guess it still makes more sense then declaring it wrong for a skilled person to defend themselves from danger unless the people attacking them are of equal pedigree and skill.

[HMS Invincible]

Absolutely. Shame that’s not always an option, and eventually does always rely on the statistically sound but not absolute idea that the person threatening your life is not likely to kill you once they have deprived you of your property. Periphery which in this example there was no way you could let thugs like that just walk away with.

Idiots who still opened fire with enough firepower she had to use a dumpster as a shield, after she used tha Flay Thrower. As an aside I love that name, I totally need to work out how that would work for a space game at some point. She is a badass who clearly had access to heavy ordanance and also has some prosthetics that are more advanced then our own. From what Dave said the best way to describe her in Dabbler terms would be as the DPS to Dabbler’s rogue. You know, DPS? Those tanky folks known for shrugging off gunfire at a whim. You are literally declaring that her big guns disqualify her from actually using them because it would be unfair to the people threatening her with lethal weaponry. Once you hold a gun to someone else’s metaphorical head that person has the right to end you where you stand. If she had just pulled out a laser pistol and shot them all in the head they would be just as dead. Why does it matter that she used bigger guns in the firefight.


So you feel justified blaming the victims of a mugging with lethal weaponry for defending themselves from said lethal weapons in a way you don’t approve of. Good for you, I would feel justified in punting every pug dog on the face of this earth down the Grand Canyon while singing a happy tune. But that doesn’t suddenly make my personal and irrational hatred of the breed correct. I would hazard a guess it still makes more sense then declaring it wrong for a skilled person to defend themselves from danger unless the people attacking them are of equal pedigree and skill.

I find the contrast in combat styles from roughly equally strong heroes to be interesting. Why does dabbler toy with her opponents, while maxima swiftly disables them, while Cora turns them into ludicrous gibs? The author even mentions it during the vehemence fight, if she went all out right away, she would have killed vehemence. I wonder if he was just following comic book conventions at that point.

[Dragonus45]

I find the contrast in combat styles from roughly equally strong heroes to be interesting. Why does dabbler toy with her opponents, while maxima swiftly disables them, while Cora turns them into ludicrous gibs? The author even mentions it during the vehemence fight, if she went all out right away, she would have killed vehemence. I wonder if he was just following comic book conventions at that point.

I figure that Maxima’s response to the Vehemence issue and her handling of the other supers have seen is her being a very by the book kind of person working in a law enforcement capacity. Leaving aside that vaporizing Vehemence outright would likely be a bad PR move I imagine it would violate someing or other for whatever the rules of engagement are in place for Archon. I’m willing to bet that if that fight kicked off in a hostile war zone that Vehemence would have had a much worse time of things.

Dabbler comes across a lot of the time as someone who is really convinced she is just better then you, and I don’t think she would really feel like she had won if she didn’t add some flavor of shaming or outmatching her opponent. It really manifested most with the bits about her swordplay not being the best but her refusing to trade off opponents.

Cora also seems to be some variety of military or most likely private mercenary type person and kind of comes across as uninterested in adding complications to a a fight that can just as easily be solved with a thorough application of firepower before she moves on with her day. She really hasn’t been in the comic much but that was my read her at least.

[Douglas]

I find the contrast in combat styles from roughly equally strong heroes to be interesting. Why does dabbler toy with her opponents, while maxima swiftly disables them, while Cora turns them into ludicrous gibs?

Dabbler toys with her opponents because she's overconfident and enjoys it, and is mostly in this for fun. Maxima goes for an immediate disable because she's a serious professional operating in a police-type role. Cora, apparently, produces ludicrous gibs because she's probably actually not all that tough, and her combat style is built around eliminating the enemy before they can land any hits on her.

The author even mentions it during the vehemence fight, if she went all out right away, she would have killed vehemence. I wonder if he was just following comic book conventions at that point.

Maxima is in a position where she is expected, and maybe even required, to make all reasonable efforts to apprehend criminals alive, preferably with only minor injuries. In a super fight against unfamiliar opponents, when her powers include being absurdly tough, that means escalating gradually, because she doesn't know how much durability is in their power sets.

[lord_khaine]

Absolutely. Shame that’s not always an option, and eventually does always rely on the statistically sound but not absolute idea that the person threatening your life is not likely to kill you once they have deprived you of your property. Periphery which in this example there was no way you could let thugs like that just walk away with.

If they were going to do that they could have killed first and then looted. Its still better than the less than 50/50 flip of being the last person standing.

Idiots who still opened fire with enough firepower she had to use a dumpster as a shield, after she used tha Flay Thrower. As an aside I love that name, I totally need to work out how that would work for a space game at some point. She is a badass who clearly had access to heavy ordanance and also has some prosthetics that are more advanced then our own. From what Dave said the best way to describe her in Dabbler terms would be as the DPS to Dabbler’s rogue. You know, DPS? Those tanky folks known for shrugging off gunfire at a whim. You are literally declaring that her big guns disqualify her from actually using them because it would be unfair to the people threatening her with lethal weaponry. Once you hold a gun to someone else’s metaphorical head that person has the right to end you where you stand. If she had just pulled out a laser pistol and shot them all in the head they would be just as dead. Why does it matter that she used bigger guns in the firefight.

... for real? She just executed someone in likely the most gruesome manner possible. Of course everyone is going to shoot out of reflex. That directly circle back around to your own argument of once Cora pulls a weapon her life is forfeit.

And no.. thats the strawman your trying to put up. Or else pull out the quote where i "litterally" declase that "her big guns disqualify her from actually using them because it would be unfair to the people threatening her with lethal weaponry"
What i have declared is that i see Cora as sufficiently powerful that she wasnt in danger from those. And therefore cant claim murder in self defence. If someone treatens you, then what you have the right to use is the minimum amount of violence needed to ensure your own safety. Not the maximum, or whatever you feel like.
The Gun she used matters because im of the stance that she could just as easily have settled for maiming them.

So you feel justified blaming the victims of a mugging with lethal weaponry for defending themselves from said lethal weapons in a way you don’t approve of. Good for you, I would feel justified in punting every pug dog on the face of this earth down the Grand Canyon while singing a happy tune. But that doesn’t suddenly make my personal and irrational hatred of the breed correct. I would hazard a guess it still makes more sense then declaring it wrong for a skilled person to defend themselves from danger unless the people attacking them are of equal pedigree and skill.

Oh yes i certainly do!
Because i believe i have already stated that i did not see this as self defence.
And oh, i see your setting another strawman up there. Either that statement is blatantly false. Or else you can directly quote where i claim that "its wrong for a skilled person to defend themselves against less skilled opponents"
But if you honestly just got it confused then i will gladly clarify. What i say is wrong, is for her to use more violence than she needs to.

[-D-]

Idiots who still opened fire with enough firepower she had to use a dumpster as a shield

Dumpsters aren't known for its power to stop projectiles... But ok, maybe future weapons can't pierce dumpster like its cardboard - unlike bullets.

Once you hold a gun to someone else’s metaphorical head that person has the right to end you where you stand

On planet Gazorpazorp - maybe. But then again we can only judge her by our human reader standards.

Meanwhile if someone tries to mug you with a gun and in response you destroy large part of street or turn several muggers into melted Swiss cheese, you lose any right to self defense. At best it's second degree murder. She didn't plan on killing them, but she used the opportunity when it presented itself. We know she laughed at their face implying she wasn't stressed about her survival.

[The Glyphstone]

But was she unworried about survival because their guns couldn't hurt her, or because they had been dumb enough to bring a gun to a Flay Thrower fight?