Grrl Power IV: Constantly Expanded Universe

[sihnfahl]

The big thing here is... she's human?

Partially.
"It’s… basically she’s got an alien grandparent, and one of her parents is like 1/16th something else, but mostly human."
So... at least 3 generations?
But yeah, the degree of genetic similarity required for interbreeding is ... crazy high.

[Max_Killjoy]

Partially.
"It’s… basically she’s got an alien grandparent, and one of her parents is like 1/16th something else, but mostly human."
So... at least 3 generations?
But yeah, the degree of genetic similarity required for interbreeding is ... crazy high.

I mean, are there other humans out there on other planets, or is this from alien, um, "tourists" visiting earth, or what?

[Rogar Demonblud]

That's what he's dodging. If there are humans living on other planets, then we're already a spacefaring society by the terms Dave set last time. So she lied about that, and everything related to it. If she's the product of some humans scooped up for lab animals, hey, guess what, she said that doesn't happen either. And if she's just the product of some random sex tourist knocking up a local and deciding to keep the baby mama around? She also said that doesn't happen.

No matter what, at some point in the last few pages she's been lying through her teeth. Somebody among the reporters needs to ask a follow up.

[-D-]

That's what he's dodging. If there are humans living on other planets, then we're already a spacefaring society by the terms Dave set last time.

What rules?

Earth could be treated as a single entity that is yet to reach warp travel. Basically imagine two planets populated by humans - Earth and Futuria. Futuria discovers/uses warp travel and is considered FTL civ. Earth still uses rockets and is not a FTL civ.

In other words they don't judge individual races, but instead individual civs/planets.

[Max_Killjoy]

What rules?

Earth could be treated as a single entity that is yet to reach warp travel. Basically imagine two planets populated by humans - Earth and Futuria. Futuria discovers/uses warp travel and is considered FTL civ. Earth still uses rockets and is not a FTL civ.

In other words they don't judge individual races, but instead individual civs/planets.

OK, so how did humans end up on two planets, then?

For there to be two planets with humans, at some point in the past, one of the following had to be true:
1) There were interstellar space-faring humans.
2) Humans were transplanted from one planet to another by an outside actor.
3) Someone is seeding planets with life, controlling the evolution, and then making the results indistinguishable from natural evolution.


What it can't be is "there are just humans on two planets, completely independent of each other, both just happening to have developed into genetically compatible identical humans.

It would be LESS outrageously unlikely for Cora to be from a parallel universe where humans are already a spacefaring civilization, or to somehow be from the future of our universe, than it would be for actual humans to "just happened" to have evolved on two separate worlds.

[lord_khaine]

... yes..
#3 is a theory several other people have already brough up on seperate occation as the reason for why so many humanoid aliens are alike.
Heck, and for why there are so many humanoid aliens.
Though not like it should be to hard to hide any signs of meddling if it was done far enough in the past.
Or for that matter, if it was done on a sufficiently large scale, then its not like they would care about controlling things.
Earth would just be petri dish #26755 B

[Max_Killjoy]

... yes..
#3 is a theory several other people have already brough up on seperate occation as the reason for why so many humanoid aliens are alike.
Heck, and for why there are so many humanoid aliens.
Though not like it should be to hard to hide any signs of meddling if it was done far enough in the past.
Or for that matter, if it was done on a sufficiently large scale, then its not like they would care about controlling things.
Earth would just be petri dish #26755 B

In order to get genetically compatible and physically indistinguishable humans out of ~4 billion of years of evolution on two different planets, you'd need to interfere for about 3.999 billion of those years on one or both planets.

[halfeye]

In order to get genetically compatible and physically indistinguishable humans out of ~4 billion of years of evolution on two different planets, you'd need to interfere for about 3.999 billion of those years on one or both planets.

That's always been true, and science fiction authors have always ignored it.

People are just stupid that way.

With any sort of theatre, TV or movies there's always the extra problem/excuse that actors are always human, but book authors very often make their aliens human even when there's no obvious chance of a film adaptation.

[Max_Killjoy]

That's always been true, and science fiction authors have always ignored it.

People are just stupid that way.

With any sort of theatre, TV or movies there's always the extra problem/excuse that actors are always human, but book authors very often make their aliens human even when there's no obvious chance of a film adaptation.

I was willing to overlook the conceit... until Cora said she was specifically, genetically "human" and then glossed over all the implications.

[halfeye]

I was willing to overlook the conceit... until Cora said she was specifically, genetically "human" and then glossed over all the implications.

If she was grown in a vat from a modified earth human embryo, I can forgive that totally, off earth originated humans are a big "no-way jose" for me though.

[-D-]

In order to get genetically compatible and physically indistinguishable humans out of ~4 billion of years of evolution on two different planets, you'd need to interfere for about 3.999 billion of those years on one or both planets.

Again not necessarily.

Coyotes, wolf and dogs can interbreed. Humans could be a geologicall recent addition circa 100.000 or so years ago.

Second the Precursors could be advanced enough to calculate evolution trajectories leaving to similarly looking humans everywhere. And/or they change nature/climate enough to ensure similar outcomes on different planets. And/Or they could still be influencing all humanoids, on a level no one, including the Federation (or whatever it is called) comprehend.

Lastly, with gene-modding that available, two genetically or even physically incompatible parent could produce an offspring, even if normally they wouldn't be able to. However that doesn't explain why they made her quadriplegic, though. Maybe it was all the rage back in the day.

[Max_Killjoy]

Coyotes, wolf and dogs can interbreed.

All three originated from a very recent common ancestor on the same planet.

Humans could be a geologicall recent addition circa 100.000 or so years ago.

Humans are linked backwards to the earliest known life on earth through the genetic and fossil records -- all of that would have to be faked in minute detail to just add humans to earth 100,000 years ago.

Second the Precursors could be advanced enough to calculate evolution trajectories leaving to similarly looking humans everywhere. And/or they change nature/climate enough to ensure similar outcomes on different planets.

That's not how evolution works.

[HandofShadows]

We know that aliens have been visiting Earth for a while and it seems to be a minor tourist destination. So who knows what shenanigans have been going on. And there had been enough contact that someone made up gene mods for humans as well. So that means a couple of decades of contact.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Try millenia. One of the aliens we saw was disguised as Hokarthy-Re of Ancient Egypt.

[Max_Killjoy]

"Result of a dalliance" might be the answer, but I don't think Cora can say that without at least in spirit contradicting "no one wants your women".

[lord_khaine]

In order to get genetically compatible and physically indistinguishable humans out of ~4 billion of years of evolution on two different planets, you'd need to interfere for about 3.999 billion of those years on one or both planets.

I was willing to overlook the conceit... until Cora said she was specifically, genetically "human" and then glossed over all the implications.

Relevant point of order. We dont know if they are genetically compatible.
Cora dont say she is genetically human. Just that she is human.
We also dont know how much of our evolution theory is correct.

Lastly, with gene-modding that available, two genetically or even physically incompatible parent could produce an offspring, even if normally they wouldn't be able to. However that doesn't explain why they made her quadriplegic, though. Maybe it was all the rage back in the day.

It feels like a bit of a plothole that with all that genetic technology they still cant sceen for basic stuff like that.

Humans are linked backwards to the earliest known life on earth through the genetic and fossil records -- all of that would have to be faked in minute detail to just add humans to earth 100,000 years ago.

Thats only assuming our grasp of genetics are actually as good as we think.

"Result of a dalliance" might be the answer, but I don't think Cora can say that without at least in spirit contradicting "no one wants your women".

Your.. really.. reallly set on it having been the mother who came from earth.. ?
I mean.. that has a stupidly obvious solution..

[Rogar Demonblud]

I'm not going to go check, but I'm pretty sure Dave said that one of her grandparents was 1/16th alien. Which would make Cora 63/64ths human. At that point, you might as well just say both her parents are human unless you want to start getting into some of our more boneheaded race laws and the one drop of blood BS.

Again, it looks like Dave had an idea and jumped in without bothering to think it through.

[Max_Killjoy]

I was going to say, read Dave B's notes underneath, he gets into genetic stuff far more than Cora herself does.

[lord_khaine]

I was going to say, read Dave B's notes underneath, he gets into genetic stuff far more than Cora herself does.

Then its not Cora that says it though?

But alright, looking at Dave's comment.
The fishy bit is clearly that one grandparent is an alien.
That should of course not be possible. But then again, stupid gene modding does murk up the whole subject.

[sihnfahl]

That should of course not be possible. But then again, stupid gene modding does murk up the whole subject.

So the questions arise:

Since one of her parents is like 1/16th alien, that means one alien specifically altered their DNA to be compatible with a human about 4 generations ago.
Then an alien grandparent - so now we're talking ... okay, fully alien parent or a 50% parent. Or whatever, considering the previous opened up the possibility of a 1/2, 1/4th or 1/16th... or whatever... alien parent.

That's ... more than a FEW folks genemodding to ensure not just cross-species compatibility, but also fetal viability.

[Kantaki]

I mean she never claimed there were no alien/human relationships, only that there won't be invasions to steal Earth's women.
Anything else is fair game.

Also, one of the beach aliens looks like Maxima.
Well, a male version at least.
What exactly did the Geode-Juice do to our Golden Angel of Fiery Death?

[Max_Killjoy]

Then its not Cora that says it though?

But alright, looking at Dave's comment.
The fishy bit is clearly that one grandparent is an alien.
That should of course not be possible. But then again, stupid gene modding does murk up the whole subject.

When did I say Cora said it? Cora said something else that's contradicted.

[Dragonus45]

Lets all remember magic exists in this universe, clearly there is a massive galaxy wide fertility spell cast by the ancient ones to ensure you could always have a... good time no matter where you are.

:EDIT: Presumably it self sustains off of tantric energy.

[lord_khaine]

That's ... more than a FEW folks genemodding to ensure not just cross-species compatibility, but also fetal viability.

Yes. Hence the "ancient onces" seeded life across the galaxy theory.
Else said modding would go from troublesome, to stupidly impossible.

I mean she never claimed there were no alien/human relationships, only that there won't be invasions to steal Earth's women.
Anything else is fair game.

Yeah it kinda shocked me how many overlooked that it left Earths men as fair game! :P

Also, one of the beach aliens looks like Maxima.
Well, a male version at least.

Likely just a coincidence. There is only so many colors to go around.
He also seems more yellow anyway.

When did I say Cora said it? Cora said something else that's contradicted.

I was willing to overlook the conceit... until Cora said she was specifically, genetically "human" and then glossed over all the implications.

There you go.

Lets all remember magic exists in this universe, clearly there is a massive galaxy wide fertility spell cast by the ancient ones to ensure you could always have a... good time no matter where you are.

Except that would do the opposite. Suddenly leaving everyone worried about the result of a casual fling ;)

[-D-]

That's not how evolution works.

We have a setting with FTL and Magic. No matter how stupid your idea is, one of those twos will save it.

Here are three ways:
Reverse causality - Let's plant people here using our reverse causality magic that builds a habitat that supports them and allows them to evolve to some designed point.

Many Earths variation - Pure tech. Precursors could just dump some bacteria, and use their multiverse spanning googles to either select life from all the evolved possibilities that they find "worthy" or prune all possibilities they dislike.

The Great Old Ones - Magic/Tech. Precursors never left. They operate on plane of existence so different than ours, we can't even begin to comprehend them. Perhaps what we think as moment of inspiration is just Precursors guiding us. Or perhaps, what we think as minds/souls are just cells of their infinite being.

[halfeye]

Yes. Hence the "ancient onces" seeded life across the galaxy theory.
Else said modding would go from troublesome, to stupidly impossible.

It is impossible. It's not the life being seeded across the galaxy that's difficult, that's easily possible even without FTL. What's impossible is that life is fractal, you don't get the same results twice, the slightest variation gets different results, and those different results get another lot of different results. Convergent evolution is a thing, birds have wings, bats have wings, insects have wings, and they have a lot in common, they tend to taper toward the tips, they're flatish, and they're fairly smooth. How they're made though is different, and that's what makes for all the variations.

[Dragonus45]

Except that would do the opposite. Suddenly leaving everyone worried about the result of a casual fling ;)

Tragic side effect of magically pushing all evolutionary paths to be compatible , also humans were probably just teleporting around the galaxy for who knows how long magically to keep spreading the genuineness.

[-D-]

life is fractal, you don't get the same results twice.

You what mate? Fractals are self-repeating at different zoom levels.
Organisms exhibit fractal behavior, but that is due to A) fractal being optimal solutions to certain problems and B) possibly because of a way genes activate.

[Sean Mirrsen]

It is impossible. It's not the life being seeded across the galaxy that's difficult, that's easily possible even without FTL. What's impossible is that life is fractal, you don't get the same results twice, the slightest variation gets different results, and those different results get another lot of different results. Convergent evolution is a thing, birds have wings, bats have wings, insects have wings, and they have a lot in common, they tend to taper toward the tips, they're flatish, and they're fairly smooth. How they're made though is different, and that's what makes for all the variations.

Well here's the thing though, convergent evolution is "a thing" because evolution reacts to external pressures. While the results will not be identical (unless under absolutely identical conditions and in a fully deterministic universe), the same set of pressures will result in broadly the same developments.

Whether or not they'll end up genetically compatible to ours is another thing entirely, but another planet with the same composition, in the same temperature band of the same class of star as Earth, will more or less end up developing the same kinds of carbon-based lifeforms. The details will be different, but with the same stuff to work with, chemistry will create the same building blocks of life. The same kind of organisms will dominate, the same kind of organisms will be the first to leave the water and go on land. The same kind of sunlight and the same kind of water will cause the same kind of plants to grow, causing the same kind of atmospheric makeup. It all goes along the chain from there, to mammalian arboreal species that gradually develop intelligence and society, and eventually arrive at the same kind of mostly hairless, upright bipedal mammal with sexual dimorphism.

The only major wrinkle in this concept is the one or three extinction events that our planet had to go through, with the biggest (or at least most recent) being the asteroid impact that wiped the planet of oversized, energy-inefficient and ambient-temperature-sensitive reptiles, and only allowed smaller and more warm-blooded specimens like mammals to really go forward on land. However, it may just be that it's the kind of "interference" an outside agent seeking to populate the galaxy with similar lifeforms could enact. The effects of a properly aimed asteroid aren't exactly unpredictable, not if you've seen it happen several times already. It may be that without a timely rock to put on some extra pressure, a typical Earth-like planet would forever be stalled in a primal wilds state, dominated by creatures that can't support the energy balance required by an intelligence level that would allow them to form language and tool use.

[Traab]

It is impossible. It's not the life being seeded across the galaxy that's difficult, that's easily possible even without FTL. What's impossible is that life is fractal, you don't get the same results twice, the slightest variation gets different results, and those different results get another lot of different results. Convergent evolution is a thing, birds have wings, bats have wings, insects have wings, and they have a lot in common, they tend to taper toward the tips, they're flatish, and they're fairly smooth. How they're made though is different, and that's what makes for all the variations.

And that would be why there are so many different yet still humanoid alien races. Their evolutions all took different paths and yet most stuck with two legs, two arms, upright gait, and enough biological compatibility to make boning possible, even if actual reproduction may be more problematic. They may have horns, or craggy skin, or even tails, but they still formed sentient life along lines near enough to end up as humanoid, not human. Now, maybe this isnt possible according to actual science. Thankfully this is science fiction and can be handwaved as ultra advanced aliens with ultra advanced, might as well be magic, levels of scientific skill and they could make it happen. PLEASE STOP MAKING GOD KILL CATGIRLS! Seriously, practically none of the super powers in this universe could work the way they do according to all known science, maybe dont get hung up on all the ways a webcomic writer fails at understanding doctorate level science in 5 different fields. Its close enough for fridge logic and suspension of disbelief to take effect.