Would this change make my character too overpowered? Would you allow it?

[Khloros]

I may join my first D&D group soon and I was taking a look at the classes...

The group is compsoed of one figther(tank), One wizard(DPS), one rogue who focus on backstabing and damage, two clerics, one acting as a healer and abckup tank and the other is a encromancer who also deals necrotic damage and a barbarian.

My ideia for a character was a diplomat who didn't really like to fight and was very agile, the DM said that it would be great becuase the gorup has a lot of dmaage delaers but are not that great on delaing with non-violent encounters.

The problem is that I don't like the idea of backstabbing and other criminal skills form the rogue, so my idea was asking if my rougue could get Uncanny Dodge and Evasion in the first level while losing the ability to Sneak Attack and steal.

Would that be ok? It seems like a fiar trade to me.

If not is there another class that is good at dealing with negotiations while also being good at dodging and being overal agile and acrobatic?

[DeTess]

What edition are you playing?

Anyway, for a more diplomatic approach, you generally can't go wrong with Bard.

[Khloros]

What edition are you playing?

Anyway, for a more diplomatic approach, you generally can't go wrong with Bard.

I'm not sure it's either D&D 5th or D&D 3.5.

I don't like the bard fluff too goofy, I want some one to be a serious diplomat and negotiator.

[DeTess]

That's what refluffing is for. The fluff of any class can be changed as you will. If you want your bard to be a serious diplomat, take perform (oratory) and fluff any uses of bardic music/inspiration as a rousing speech or scathing put-down of the opposition.

Edition matters here quite a bit as well, as a 5e rogue without sneak attack has been nerfed badly. If you're playing 5e sone paladin subclasses might also work for you.

[Jay R]

Ask your DM. You are asking for changes to the rules, so the DM is the only one who can answer it.

Bear in mind that almost nobody uses every single tool their character has. I once played a 2e thief, who never stole, and therefore never used his Pick Pocket or Lockpick skills. But he made an excellent sneak. So you could be a rogue who doesn't use the rogue skills you don't like.

[MrSandman]

If you want a diplomat, bard fits the concept much better than rogue.

[Telonius]

Assuming this is 3.5, there are a few classes that would fit. Bard and Rogue, as already mentioned, would definitely fit on the skills side of things. If you're really not down with the fluff of it, there are a few other options.

Just in the PHB, you can make a passable diplomat with a Monk. It has Diplomacy and Sense Motive as class skills, and definitely fits the "agile" theme (with Balance and Tumble, and the Evasion line).

Moving out of the PHB, Warlock (from Complete Arcane) is another common one for social characters. Bluff and Sense Motive are class skills. The Beguiling Influence Invocation is available from first level on, and gives you +6 to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate. (If you're going to dip just one level of a class for a Diplomat build, this would be the one you want).

Marshal from Miniatures Handbook is another possibility. Bluff, Diplomacy, and Sense Motive as class skills. It's a "power multiplier," giving all team-mates benefits from the Auras. You might find that fluff a bit less "goofy" than Bardic Music.

There's also a variant Rogue from Unearthed Arcana that loses sneak attack, gaining Fighter Bonus Feats instead.

[Grod_The_Giant]

There's also a variant Rogue from Unearthed Arcana that loses sneak attack, gaining Fighter Bonus Feats instead.

The same source also has a variant Bard that trades pretty much all of your Bardic Music (certainly all of it that you'd actually use) for a Druid's animal companion and a few more small Druidic bits.

For another non-core option, the Beguiler (PHB 2) is, in many ways, a Rogue that trades Sneak Attack for enchantment and illusion magic.

----

If you're talking 5e, how about a Way of Tranquility Monk (from Unearthed Arcana)? They get a big chunk of healing and an at-will "please don't hit me, I come in peace" aura. Or really any Monk, particularly since 5e lets you do nonlethal damage whenever you want.

[Marcotix]

I really wouldn't, just because it isn't necessary, throws off expectations of game balance and leave you with little to look forward to.

Instead, I'd probably tell you that class fluff is just fluff and have you play a bard, perhaps letting you trade away some of the "goofier" stuff for diplomacy/ Espionage feats.
If that's not good enough, I'd swap some of the skills on the monk class (really, though that class already has everything you need as is) and have you go forth.
If that's not to your liking I'd suggest a rogue who trades sneak attack for diplomacy/ espionage feats.

Or the beguiler class. Or a modified wizard.

My main thing though is that even if your character doesn't like to fight, you still need to be able justifing why your party doesn't just stick you with the packmules at the entrance of the dungeon.

[Khloros]

Oh yeah I forgot to say.

My idea for the character is that he's going to be a badass normal, so I need a class with no supernatural or magical abilities.

[MrSandman]

You could try this: https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Diplomat_(3.5e_Class)

EDIT: You may also want to look at Dragonlance's noble: http://dnd.arkalseif.info/classes/noble/index.html

[Telonius]

Oh yeah I forgot to say.

My idea for the character is that he's going to be a badass normal, so I need a class with no supernatural or magical abilities.

Okay, that limits things quite a bit, if you're talking 3.5. If you really mean no (Su) abilities at all, you're down to Barbarian, Fighter, Rogue, Knight, Swashbuckler, or Samurai. (Depending on your opinion of how "magical" the abilities are, the three Tome of Battle classes as well; there may be a few random weird base classes I've forgotten about too); plus any variants that trade away the supernatural elements.

Of those choices, Swashbuckler or Rogue would probably be where you'd want to be for the combination of Diplomacy skills and agility-based class features.

[icefractal]

Diplomat who doesn't like to fight + no supernatural abilities? You might need to set the bar a little higher, depending on the group. Because what you're describing is pretty much just skills, and _everyone_ gets skills. Diplomacy alone is pretty much half a character, especially in combat.

Now that may not be a problem. If the group isn't being pushed to their limits in combat, having someone who just stays in the background then could be fine. If they are, then not so much. In that case you may want to expand your concept of what the character can do.

Also, Bards are not "goofy" :P
They make excellent diplomats, spies, even military leaders. And Perform(oratory) is a thing. They are obviously magic though, although I think there are homebrew non-casting versions around.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Oh yeah I forgot to say.

My idea for the character is that he's going to be a badass normal, so I need a class with no supernatural or magical abilities.

Mkay. Now, is it just the "sneak attack=backstab" part you don't want, or do you want a generally non-direct-damage combat role?

[MrSandman]

Oh yeah I forgot to say.

My idea for the character is that he's going to be a badass normal, so I need a class with no supernatural or magical abilities.

Then go Expert or Aristocrat.

[Cespenar]

If this is 3.5, you could go Swordsage and get all the defensive/mobility maneuvers from Setting Sun and Desert Wind schools. And just dump all your skills on Diplo, Sense Motive, Bluff, etc.

[Sinewmire]

My ideia for a character was a diplomat who didn't really like to fight and was very agile, the DM said that it would be great becuase the gorup has a lot of dmaage delaers but are not that great on delaing with non-violent encounters.

So your character would have to A) avoid fights wherever and B) view fighting as self defense rather than their job.

Is there an equivalent of the Pathfinder Cavalier in your system, who specialising in demoralising and teamwork feats? Teamwork feats are pretty good for nonmagical party-wide buffs and would make sense for a smart talky-type.

Your character might not like fighting, but once a fight is inevitable they could happily move into flanking positions and take defensive actions. If there's a rogue in the party you could act as a noble and guttersnipe bodyguard, where you "fence" (full defense), occupying the enemy's attention, and he actually does the work (sneakattacks for days). The rogue will likely love having a flanking buddy and you can concentrate on demoralising the enemy and defending yourself.

[Shamash]

Oh, I had a very similar character concept once, I too wanted Uncanny Dodge but I didn’t like the rouge class and there was already a player who loved playing rouge.

So I went with cleric, if you choose fate domain you gain Uncanny Dodge just like a rogue would. The all you need to do is buy Evasion since it's a skill that anyone can have rogues are just better at it.

This way I was able to have an acrobatic character good at dealing with diplomacy that could be the party's negotiator.

I didn't have this "badass normal" need tough, so I'm not sure if it will work out for you.

[ExLibrisMortis]

How about a bardsader with Perform (Oratory) and marshal class features replacing bard spells (which is a downgrade, so your DM should be okay with it)?

Bard 2/crusader 2/bard +2, pick up Song of the White Raven as feat @ 3 and Imperious Command @ 6, Iron Guard's Glare is your crusader stance. Comes with Skill Focus (Diplomacy), Diplomacy as a class skill for all levels, and enough skill points. Out of combat, you get to add your Charisma to CHA-based skills twice, thanks to Motivate Charisma.

You'd have the following abilities in combat (none of which involve actually fighting!):
Stance (Iron Guard's Glare): Attacks against your allies are made with a -4 penalty, because you look at them angry. Takes no action.
Minor Aura (Master of Tactics): Your allies gain your Charisma bonus on damage rolls when flanking, because you lead them. Takes no action.
Major Aura (Motivate Attack): Your allies gain +1 to hit with melee attacks, because you lead them. Takes no action.
Bardic Music (Inspire Courage): Your allies gain +1 to hit and damage (Inspire Courage), because you encourage them. Takes a swift action, lasts five rounds.
Demoralize (Intimidate skill): An enemy stops fighting and cowers, because you intimidate them. "Cowering creatures are frozen in fear and can take no actions." Takes a standard action, lasts one round.


So there you have no less than five abilities that involve talking, encouraging, intimidating, and generally doing social things in combat, plus all the usual benefits of Diplomacy out of combat. Pump your Charisma and go to town.

[Khloros]

So, my DM said I could try going for a Mastermind Rogue, but sicne this a combat heavy game he suggested using a Swashbuckler, this way I can have high charisma and agility.

Thanks guys, I'm still not sure what I'm goign to do, I wish first edition acrobat was still a thing.

[DeTess]

For those who missed it, mastermind rogue is a 5e rogue subclass, so the OP is playing 5th edition.

Anyway OP, swashbuckler is a pretty decent choice for what you want. Don't get fooled by sneak attack's name either. In 5e (and especially for the swashbuckler) its indicative of the rogue just employing far more finesse, not of dastardly backstabbing. More d'Artagnan or Inigo montoya, less cartoon villain.

[braveheart]

If you're playing 5e then the base rogue actually is still a good option, just having sneak attack does not mean you need to use it, and 5e rogues are only good at stealing stuff if they are built that way, make charisma your main stat and put your expertise in deception or doplomacy, let the damage mitigation come when it happens.

[Telonius]

For those who missed it, mastermind rogue is a 5e rogue subclass, so the OP is playing 5th edition.

Got it! Completely disregard anything I said above; I have no idea what's good and what isn't in 5th ed.