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  1. - Top - End - #961
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    So all that stuff about Poseidon got me thinking. Maybe mitd doesn't know about the astral sea because he's familiar with extraplanar stuff. Maybe he's familiar with it because he is Protean, son of Poseidon, God of the Seas, and he's talking about the astral sea
    Yes, I am aware it's a stupid stretch :)

  2. - Top - End - #962
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Kornaki View Post
    So all that stuff about Poseidon got me thinking. Maybe mitd doesn't know about the astral sea because he's familiar with extraplanar stuff. Maybe he's familiar with it because he is Protean, son of Poseidon, God of the Seas, and he's talking about the astral sea
    Yes, I am aware it's a stupid stretch :)
    Um, is the Astral Sea something other than the Astral Plane?
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  3. - Top - End - #963
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Caerulea View Post
    I thought of that too. Unfortunately, they have it as a Supernatural ability, so shapechange can use it but Protean can not.
    Sorry, but can you explain me this better? I don't understand how you understood that it's a supernatural ability and not an extraordinary one.
    It may simply be a problem of translation, I'm used to Italian manuals... Because I don't understand why a Protean could copy the ability to teleport of a umbral plot and not the ability to wish of a Zodar.

  4. - Top - End - #964
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Crusher View Post
    Um, is the Astral Sea something other than the Astral Plane?
    They're the same thing. My point was just that maybe his knowledge of it comes from silly wordplay about deity portfolios, not a more intrinsic reason.

  5. - Top - End - #965
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Synesthesy View Post
    Sorry, but can you explain me this better? I don't understand how you understood that it's a supernatural ability and not an extraordinary one.
    It may simply be a problem of translation, I'm used to Italian manuals... Because I don't understand why a Protean could copy the ability to teleport of a umbral plot and not the ability to wish of a Zodar.
    In the Umbral Blot statblock:
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    ...Planar Travel (Ex)
    A blackball can fold space at will, allowing it to use ethereal jaunt, dimension door, greater teleport, or plane shift at will as a standard action...
    (Ex) indicates that it is an extraordinary ability.

    In the Protean statblock:
    Quote Originally Posted by SRD
    ...Alter Shape (Ex)
    A protean can assume the shape of any combination of physical nondeific creatures at the same time as a free action... Whatever its present form, the protean retains all its own special qualities. Plus, it gains the advantage of up to four extraordinary abilities from the forms it mimics (but not spell-like or supernatural powers)...
    It can not gain the advantage of the Zodar's wish, because that is a Supernatural ability. It can gain the use of the Umbral Blot's Planer Travel, because that is an extraordinary ability.
    Last edited by Caerulea; 2018-12-25 at 05:34 PM. Reason: Typos
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  6. - Top - End - #966
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Synesthesy View Post
    Sorry, but can you explain me this better? I don't understand how you understood that it's a supernatural ability and not an extraordinary one.
    It may simply be a problem of translation, I'm used to Italian manuals... Because I don't understand why a Protean could copy the ability to teleport of a umbral plot and not the ability to wish of a Zodar.
    Abilities come in three types: supernatural (Su), Extraordinary (Ex) and spell-like (Sp). Protean can only copy Ex. Zodar's wish is Su.

    Grey Wolf
    Last edited by Grey_Wolf_c; 2018-12-26 at 12:37 AM.
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    But really, the important lesson here is this: Rather than making assumptions that don't fit with the text and then complaining about the text being wrong, why not just choose different assumptions that DO fit with the text?
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  7. - Top - End - #967
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Caerulea View Post
    In the Umbral Blot statblock:

    (Ex) indicates that it is an extraordinary ability.

    In the Protean statblock:

    It can not gain the advantage of the Zodar's wish, because that is a Supernatural ability. It can gain the use of the Umbral Blot's Planer Travel, because that is an extraordinary ability.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grey_Wolf_c View Post
    Abilities come in three types: supernatural (Su), Extraordinary (Ex) and spell-like (Sp). Protean can only copy Ex. Zodar's wish is Su.

    Grey Wolf
    I'm really stupid, I played d&d for years and I never noticed that :P

    However, in Italian the Protean's description is a lot less clear then the English one.
    Last edited by Synesthesy; 2018-12-26 at 03:14 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #968
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    New suggestion: the MitD is an Italian Protean. Mamma mia!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
    This right here, is some prime quality culinary critique.

  9. - Top - End - #969
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    New suggestion: the MitD is an Italian Protean. Mamma mia!
    Eyyy, I'm-a shiftin' da shapes and-a helping my amico Signore Stiffliano escape! Easyducio! Bada bing!

    (Okay, this might not be quite as good as Italian Elon Musk.)

  10. - Top - End - #970
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Eyyy, I'm-a shiftin' da shapes and-a helping my amico Signore Stiffliano escape! Easyducio! Bada bing!

    (Okay, this might not be quite as good as Italian Elon Musk.)
    I adamantly disagree. That's disagreeing with adamantium, bytheway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
    This right here, is some prime quality culinary critique.

  11. - Top - End - #971
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I adamantly disagree. That's disagreeing with adamantium, bytheway.
    If nothing else, I'm going to have a hard time resisting the urge to call O-Chul "Signore Stiffliano."

  12. - Top - End - #972
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Eyyy, I'm-a shiftin' da shapes and-a helping my amico Signore Stiffliano escape! Easyducio! Bada bing!
    I'm interested in your sense of humor. Please share some of your other cultural summaries.
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  13. - Top - End - #973
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    If nothing else, I'm going to have a hard time resisting the urge to call O-Chul "Signore Stiffliano."
    Same. I have just tweaked my Chrome apps so that "O-Chul" now displays as "Signore Stiffliano" on all web pages.
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  14. - Top - End - #974
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Lombard View Post
    I'm interested in your sense of humor. Please share some of your other cultural summaries.
    Did you see the one where elves talk with Brooklyn accents and dwarves talk like Minnesotans? That one was pretty hilarious.
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  15. - Top - End - #975
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    So I periodically check this thread to see if anyone has guessed in a manner that blows my mind, and while checking the MitD scenes, I noticed the lack of footprints on the snow, people have guessed that it might mean that he can hover or fly in some manner. Has someone proposed the idea that it might be a pass without trace type of deal? Is there any monster that has a "leaves no tracks" when in its home environment? I was thinking that since we know he is not native to the jungle, maybe he is a creature with "cold" listed as its environment? Unless the new umbrella has a protection from weather effect, he seems like the cold doesnt bother him. Does this theory add anything to the table that we didnt think before?

  16. - Top - End - #976
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Pampukin View Post
    So I periodically check this thread to see if anyone has guessed in a manner that blows my mind, and while checking the MitD scenes, I noticed the lack of footprints on the snow, people have guessed that it might mean that he can hover or fly in some manner. Has someone proposed the idea that it might be a pass without trace type of deal?
    Short answer? Yes. Long answer? Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
    This right here, is some prime quality culinary critique.

  17. - Top - End - #977
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Pampukin View Post
    Is there any monster that has a "leaves no tracks" when in its home environment?
    Yes. Wolverines. They are small sized, but have big feet for their size, so they don't sink in the snow. They hunt for deers which are two size categories larger than they are. Deers have thin legs so they sink into the snow and slowed down by it. They're one of those creatures that are much more awesome in real life than in D&D, because the D&D version is medium sized.

    They don't have a teleportation ability though, and while they're strong, they're probably not strong enough to hit Miko through the wall.
    Last edited by b_jonas; 2018-12-28 at 12:50 PM.

  18. - Top - End - #978
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by b_jonas View Post
    Yes. Wolverines.... They're one of those creatures that are much more awesome in real life than in D&D, because the D&D version is medium sized.
    Did you mean that the other way around?
    Creature Size and Scale
    Size Category Height or Length Weight
    Small 2 ft.–4 ft. 8 lb.–60 lb
    Medium 4 ft.–8 ft. 60 lb.–500 lb
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee's Ye Olde Wikipediae
    The adult wolverine is about the size of a medium dog, with a length usually ranging from 65–107 cm (26–42 in), a tail of 17–26 cm (6.7–10.2 in), and a weight of 5.5–25 kg (12–55 lb)
    Last edited by Peelee; 2018-12-28 at 01:16 PM. Reason: Figured I'd add in the Small size category too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Your bread looks like a rotary phone.
    This right here, is some prime quality culinary critique.

  19. - Top - End - #979
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Pampukin View Post
    So I periodically check this thread to see if anyone has guessed in a manner that blows my mind, and while checking the MitD scenes, I noticed the lack of footprints on the snow, people have guessed that it might mean that he can hover or fly in some manner. Has someone proposed the idea that it might be a pass without trace type of deal? Is there any monster that has a "leaves no tracks" when in its home environment? I was thinking that since we know he is not native to the jungle, maybe he is a creature with "cold" listed as its environment? Unless the new umbrella has a protection from weather effect, he seems like the cold doesnt bother him. Does this theory add anything to the table that we didnt think before?
    Water Walk is also another explanation for why he wouldn't leave tracks since the creature hovers an inch above the liquid/snow. From what I remember, though, none of the creatures with an ability to telepork and that are strong enough to fit the tower scene have Water Walk as a special ability. Again, it's possible that a Protean could have borrowed it as an Extraordinary Ability, though I haven't check to see if there are any creatures with Water Walk as an Ex, and it could have just as easily borrowed Fly.

  20. - Top - End - #980
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Did you mean that the other way around?
    I would guess that the awesomeness comes from taking on prey much bigger than itself.

    Since a D&D wolverine is bigger, but hunts exactly the same prey, it is therefore less awesome.
    Last edited by hamishspence; 2018-12-28 at 01:23 PM.
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  21. - Top - End - #981
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    New suggestion: the MitD is an Italian Protean. Mamma mia!
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Eyyy, I'm-a shiftin' da shapes and-a helping my amico Signore Stiffliano escape! Easyducio! Bada bing!

    (Okay, this might not be quite as good as Italian Elon Musk.)
    This MUST go to my signature

  22. - Top - End - #982
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Pampukin View Post
    ... he seems like the cold doesnt bother him.
    MitD is Elsa confirmed.
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  23. - Top - End - #983
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Synesthesy View Post
    This MUST go to my signature
    By all means.

    Quote Originally Posted by MesiDoomstalker View Post
    MitD is Elsa confirmed.
    My friends the Rosens have a baby on the way, and I suggested they name it "Elsa Fromf".

  24. - Top - End - #984
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Did you mean that the other way around?
    Creature Size and Scale
    Size Category Height or Length Weight
    Small 2 ft.–4 ft. 8 lb.–60 lb
    Medium 4 ft.–8 ft. 60 lb.–500 lb
    The adult wolverine is about the size of a medium dog, with a length usually ranging from 65–107 cm (26–42 in), a tail of 17–26 cm (6.7–10.2 in), and a weight of 5.5–25 kg (12–55 lb), though exceptionally large males can weigh up to 32 kg (71 lb).[5][6][7][8] Another outsized specimen was reported to scale approximately 35 kg (77 lb).[9][10] The males are as much as 30% larger than the females and can be twice the females' weight. According to some sources, Eurasian wolverines are claimed to be larger and heavier than North American with average weights in excess of 20 kg (44 lb) but this may refer more specifically to areas such as Siberia, as data from European wolverines shows they are typically around the same size as their American counterparts
    So, sometimes on the borderline.

    In Three Hearts and Three Lions, this is said (a giant died earlier):

    Like a wolverine to a bear, so be a troll to a giant. Not so big, mayhap, but fierce beyond measure, cunning, and gripsome o' life. Many giants ha' been killed by mortal men, this way or that, but the tale is that no knicht ha' ever come off victor against a troll.
    It's fiction of course.
    Last edited by halfeye; 2018-12-28 at 08:02 PM.
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  25. - Top - End - #985
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    It's fiction of course.
    Thats always reassuring.
    Last edited by Crusher; 2018-12-28 at 08:24 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #986
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    I have missed the discussion that I'm assuming took place at the time Rich said this (below) but I really think it's the one huge test that any potential suggestion has to satisfy. Honestly, regardless of how well the Hagunemnon or the Glabrezu may fit all the scenes in the comic, I think there's no possible way Rich would be so emphatic about the big reveal being totally worth the uber-long wait for his readership in general if it just turns out to be nothing more than pulling the wraps on a perfectly standard Monster Manual creature.

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    The answer to that question is yes. Yes, there is.
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  27. - Top - End - #987
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Idea: We already have the answer. It was stated right in front of us.

    The MitD is a Good Man. That's it. That's all he is. He's a good-aligned human with 1 level in commoner.

    1. Not something the author made up, obviously.

    2. Unaware of his own capabilities. Naturally a level 1 male commoner wouldn't think he can teleport people or send Miko flying with a hit.

    3. The Big Game Hunter was obviously a high-class aristocrat who didn't expect to see a commoner, certainly not in this part of the world. And commoners are stereotyped as uneducated, hence why the Big Game Hunter was surprised he could speak comprehensible Common.

    4. Commoners are disgusting, hence the circus scene. They're so disgusting that a knowledgeable wizard, who spends all their times in books and never sees common people, wouldn't recognize them.

    5. The Escape. A natural twenty on a cross-class UMD check to use a scroll he didn't realize he was carrying.

    6. Tower scene. Two critical hits combined with an extremely excitable DM who describes them in somewhat over-the-top terms.

    7. Stomp. Again, a natural 20 combined with an extremely excitable or generous DM.

    8. Can't see the gates. Commoners have poor knowledge skills and he didn't invest anything in Spot, since he needed those cross-class UMD ranks.

    9. Fits in the box, obviously.

    10. Not immune to mind-affecting spells.

    11. The attacks on him simply whiffed. Everyone rolls poorly sometimes.

    Pretty straightforward. The MitD is a Neutral Good level 1 Male Commoner.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2018-12-29 at 09:08 PM.

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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Except all humans speak common in D&D...

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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    No. Just no.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    4. Commoners are disgusting, hence the circus scene. They're so disgusting that a knowledgeable wizard, who spends all their times in books and never sees common people, wouldn't recognize them.
    Almost all wizards know how commoners look. They still need commoners for their experiments. A wizard who goes to a circus is almost certainly not the kind of wizard who never sees commoners.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    5. The Escape. A natural twenty on a cross-class UMD check to use a scroll he didn't realize he was carrying.
    Wouldn't be enough to activate a scroll. Scrolls don't work like potions or wands. You need to be an arcane spellcaster to activate an arcane scroll, or a divine spellcaster to activate a divine scroll, use the Spellcraft skill to decipher the spell, which you can't do without training, and there are several different hard requirements for activating a scroll apart from that. The Spellcraft check gets harder if you want to activate a scroll that contains a high level spell, and the escape can't be achieved by a low-level scroll. Those rules are used in OotS, that's why Vaarsuvius had to have Belkar activate Durkon's healing scroll.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    6. Tower scene. Two critical hits combined with an extremely excitable DM who describes them in somewhat over-the-top terms.
    Nor that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    11. The attacks on him simply whiffed. Everyone rolls poorly sometimes.
    They don't roll worse than a natural 1, and they'd still hit a level 1 commoner with all natural 1 rolls, even if the target is hidden in the darkness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Son of A Lich! View Post
    Except all humans speak common in D&D...
    Oh! That's further proof that Haley isn't exactly what you'd call a human. Go half-celestial Haley!
    Last edited by b_jonas; 2018-12-29 at 09:33 PM.

  30. - Top - End - #990
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    Default Re: MitD XI: A good man

    Quote Originally Posted by b_jonas View Post
    No. Just no.
    Hrm, you're right, a level 1 commoner is ridiculous.

    Let's say they're a level 2 commoner.

    Almost all wizards know how commoners look. They still need commoners for their experiments. A wizard who goes to a circus is almost certainly not the kind of wizard who never sees commoners.
    The commoner has very high charisma. This paradox (filthy commoner, high charisma) is baffling and makes them both disgusting and hard to identify.


    They don't roll worse than a natural 1, and they'd still hit a level 1 commoner with all natural 1 rolls, even if the target is hidden in the darkness.
    Magical darkness gives a 20% miss chance.

    Wouldn't be enough to activate a scroll. Scrolls don't work like potions or wands. You need to be an arcane spellcaster to activate an arcane scroll, or a divine spellcaster to activate a divine scroll, use the Spellcraft skill to decipher the spell, which you can't do without training, and there are several different hard requirements for activating a scroll apart from that. The Spellcraft check gets harder if you want to activate a scroll that contains a high level spell, and the escape can't be achieved by a low-level scroll. Those rules are used in OotS, that's why Vaarsuvius had to have Belkar activate Durkon's healing scroll.
    No, but they have a rank of cross-class Use Magic Device. They're also incredibly sexy (hence why they're so disturbing to look at, yet you can't look away), so let's say 18 Charisma, for +4 to UMD.

    Also, their level 1 feat is Skill Focus, for +3.

    And they're highly intelligent (but low Wisdom), so lots of skill points. Since I conceded that they'd have to be level 2, they can reach 5 points in Spellcraft and Decipher Script, for a total of +4.

    Also, they're carrying a masterwork Use Magic Device tool, for +2.

    Finally, they really, really want this, for a +2 circumstance bonus!

    Counting the 5 basic points in UMD, they have 5 + 4 + 3 + 4 + 2 + 2 = +20 to their UMD checks. On a roll of 20, that's sufficient to cast a spell with a caster level of 20 - in other words, a level 9 spell, like Wish!

    (Or they could just have a Ring of Three Wishes, but I think they UMDed the scroll.)

    Actually, the tower scene and the earthquake scene could also be explained by a Ring of Three Wishes. One wish was used to "transport travelers" Miko and her horse away, and one wish was used to duplicate Earth Tremor. Alternatively, they UMDed scrolls for each.

    Quote Originally Posted by Son of A Lich! View Post
    Except all humans speak common in D&D...
    Yes, but the Big Game Hunter is obviously high-class. He's classist and assumes they wouldn't be able to speak it properly.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2019-01-02 at 05:54 PM.

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