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Thread: Reading Discworld!
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2018-09-06, 10:04 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
Spoiler: VetinariOddly, he hasn't actually taken over any of those things. He's put people he can trust in charge of them, even when it takes decades for someone to grow into the role as it did with Vimes. Government oversight, but not government administration, if you follow me. He's building the city infrastructure, but not the government's role in it. He's putting every ounce of his political capital into making the city effectively bomb-proof, regardless of what government takes over after his departure, because we've seen rather clearly what happens to the city when the Patrician is removed (The Truth) or even sick (Feet of Clay): it falls apart and the old guard jumps back in to take all the power they can. I believe, if the thread had ever been completed, Vetinari would say this Great Undertaking was to build a city that could outlive its rulers rather than being reinvented every time there is a coup.
Vetinari runs Ankh-Morpork as a meritocracy - Vimes and Moist get their ever increasing power because they earn it. He wouldn't be nearly so amiable with Carrot if Carrot weren't a proper leader in his own right. He tolerates De Worde and King because they, too, earn what power they get even if he wasn't the one to give it to them. I mean, he'd probably be okay letting Carrot take over if he ever so much as asked to, but that's because Carrot is awesome and not for any trivial reasons.Spoiler: My inventory:
1 Sentient Sword
1 Jammy Dodger (I was promised tea)
1 Godwin Point.
Originally Posted by Kairos Theodosian
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2018-09-06, 02:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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2018-09-18, 09:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
Moving Pictures
Finally finished "Moving Pictures". It's a very fun book that introduces a bunch of new characters, most of which are very likeable and/or entertaining.
I particularly liked Gaspode and the trolls (specially their courtship rituals)... Although C.M.O.T Dibbler was hilarious as the greedy producer meddling with the story. The little nods to the history of cinema and the whole concept of "Holy Wood magic" were really fun... Heh... I love how they find the closing line for"Gone With The Wind""Blown Away".
The history climax is as fun as always... The mix between "Attack of the 50 ft woman" and "King Kong" was hilarious. It actually saddens me that Holy Wood is gone and moving pictures were forbidden. I hope they find a way to return. I'd like to see more of Victor, Ginger and Gaspode.
Next, I believe is "Reaper Man", which sounds like a DEATH book... Considering how much I loved "Mort", I'm pretty excited!Last edited by Lemmy; 2019-09-15 at 10:49 PM.
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2018-09-18, 09:32 AM (ISO 8601)
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2018-09-18, 09:48 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
Most of them stick around!
I particularly liked Gaspode and the trolls (specially their courtship rituals)... Although C.M.O.T Dibbler was hilarious as the greedy producer meddling with the story. The little nods to the history of cinema and the whole concept of "Holy Wood magic" were really fun... Heh... I love how they find the closing line for"Gone With The Wind""Blown Away".
The history climax is as fun as always... The mix between "Attack of the 50 ft woman" and "King Kong" was hilarious. It actually saddens me that Holy Wood is gone and moving pictures were forbidden. I hope they find a way to return. I'd like to see more of Victor, Ginger and Gaspode.Spoiler: General serie rather than a particular bookHoly Wood doesn't come back. The first few Wild Ideas don't. It's only with the Truth that they start doing so.
Next, I believe is "Reaper Man", which sounds like a DEATH book... Considering how much I loved "Mort", I'm pretty excited!Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2018-09-18, 10:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
"Reaper Man" is definitely a Death book and that line has a very high bar of quality. If you liked "Mort", I think you'll really like this one, as it continues Death's development as a character and a job, this time without Mort's perspective getting in the way of things. It's got an awful lot of side stories muddying things up, which I feel drags the overall quality down some, but, when the story is focused on Death, it's really on point.
Also, a minor spoiler regarding a favorite Moving Pictures character:
SpoilerGaspode will return, and pretty soon. "Men at Arms", I believe. And he remains every bit as awesome as he was in Moving Pictures, presenting a far more practical mindset than most of the "intelligent" species seem capable of. So, yeah. He's a lot of fun.Last edited by Calemyr; 2018-09-18 at 10:44 AM.
Spoiler: My inventory:
1 Sentient Sword
1 Jammy Dodger (I was promised tea)
1 Godwin Point.
Originally Posted by Kairos Theodosian
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2018-09-18, 10:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
Ah yes, reaper man is my personal favourite so look forward to seeing what you think. (It does have some issues but won't mention them until you are finished to avoid tainting your perception.)
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2018-09-18, 01:36 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
They will mention Holy wood a couple of times, mostly as a negative example. Just like Mr. Hong and his take-away bar.
Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett
"Magic can turn a frog into a prince. Science can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with." Terry Pratchett
"I will not yield to evil, unless she's cute."
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2018-09-18, 03:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
This going to sound super hypocritical given I'm forever moaning about the
steammagipunk version of the Disc in the later books but I honestly wished the clicks stuck around. I don't know whether the difference is I just love the cinema (which alone makes Moving Pictures great for me) or because the moving pictures are so clearly their own unique thing rather than some greater kernel of industrialistion.
Regarding Gaspode.
SpoilerI wasn't a huge fan of the Men at Arms retcon that all dogs are as smart as he is and that Laddie is just a simpleton.
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2018-09-18, 03:15 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2018-09-18, 03:19 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
Gaspode is unique in that he can speak Human,
Spoiler: Men At Arms spoilerbut when the dogs are talking about themselves in Canine, they all come across as a lot brighter than Laddie.
In The Fifth Elephant
Spoiler: The Fifth ElephantThe regular wolves (as opposed to werewolves) are also pretty capable of holding conversations.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
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2018-09-18, 03:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2018-09-18, 03:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
It doesn't bother me - but I can see why people might regard it as a retcon.
Still, even before Men At Arms, regular animals having unusual intelligence was established. Camels being amazing mathematicians, for example.Marut-2 Avatar by Serpentine
New Marut Avatar by Linkele
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2018-09-18, 03:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
Spoiler: GaspodeThe only thing I can say to excuse Laddie is that, like Gaspode and the others, he is under the effects of movie magic. That said, Gaspode made it abundantly clear that Laddie was good looking but "had the brains of a stunned herring". It just gets much, much worse compared to Men at Arms.
In Men at Arms, the Bad Dogs Guild was a lot more intelligent than Laddie ever was - even the dumbest Bad Dogs were able to think simple thoughts beyond "Laddie good boy!". And then we get Poodle Hitler. End result is that Laddie goes from being a common dog paired with a super smart Gaspode to being a simpleton paired with a marginally clever but magically vocal Gaspode. The Fifth Elephant splits the difference by giving us Gavin, who is stated to be smart (basically a lupine approximation of Carrot) but he never "speaks" so we only have outside interpretations regarding how smart he really is.
I still have to admit that it surprised me that we never found out that Laddie was a girl, seeing as Lassie was a boy. Or maybe the Disc has enough sense to check gender before selecting a name.Spoiler: My inventory:
1 Sentient Sword
1 Jammy Dodger (I was promised tea)
1 Godwin Point.
Originally Posted by Kairos Theodosian
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2018-09-18, 03:45 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
Forum Wisdom
Mage avatar by smutmulch & linklele.
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2018-09-18, 05:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
I have a question:
Did Pratchett ever give a reason why he rarely wrote two consecutive books focused on the same characters?
Was it to avoid getting tired of them? To make it more interesting for the readers? To explore more of Discworld? Simply because he was inspired by different things at different times? Something else entirely?Last edited by Lemmy; 2018-09-18 at 05:23 PM.
Homebrew Stuff:- Lemmy's Custom Weapon Generation System! - (D&D 3.X and PF)
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2018-09-18, 05:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
He said he was usually writing on several of them at the same time, in various stages of development. So he probably just had one per character going.
Resident Vancian Apologist
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2018-09-18, 05:53 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
I guess to some extent if he had a good joke/situation for book 2 he'd have put it in book 1.
I think he also had a few books on the go (it talks about books being destroyed) so it would be confusing to remember what elements happened in which book.
Spoiler: comment on themes
Also many of the books in a theme have much the same plot. Maybe with one or two things reversed and paired with other plots. Going straight from one to the next might be a bit jarring. Guards guards, Men at arms and feet of clay are all "Someone tries to put a fake/real king on the throne".
Spoiler: comment on books
Eric, Moving Pics & Reaper man are a run of adjacent half-wizardy books
Then you have a run of watch books close together Feet of Clay, (Death), Jingo, (Wizards), (Witches), 5th Elephant,
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2018-09-19, 02:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
Last edited by veti; 2018-09-19 at 02:09 AM.
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2018-10-06, 04:31 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett
"Magic can turn a frog into a prince. Science can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with." Terry Pratchett
"I will not yield to evil, unless she's cute."
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2018-10-06, 05:11 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
You have the actual "wild Ideas" of which Moving Pictures (already read) is one and the general recurring technological development, and then they kind of meet.
Spoiler
In narrative because the Patrician allows it around truth time.
Speaking of Moving Pictures I've been listening to the radio version of Dr in the house, and it has a pretty much identical form of the Will situation. Which previously I'd assumed had been Terry's own spin (inspired perhaps by something like Pirate of Penzance), but now wonder.
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2018-10-10, 11:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
Reaper Man
I just finished reading "Reaper Man" (Slow day at work! Sue me!).
As always, DEATH is a great character. Incredibly entertaining, relatable and... Well... Human. Once again we see how much he cares. Previous books already showed this but not as clearly as "Reaper Man" does. His time as Bill Door and his friendship with Miss Flitworth are delightful to read... As is his disgust at the cold, uncaring "New Death", created by the imagination of modern humans, who greatly fear death.
The "Fresh Starters" are all around hilarious. The vampire couple and the blooming relationship between the wolf-girl and the man-wolf are my favorite part of that story, never failing to make me laugh! The boogey man too made me LOL multiple times... Widdle Poons being followed around by a door is just too funny!
Speaking of which...
Winddle Poons adventures are equally funny. I love how the other wizards try to exorcise (?) him time and time again, failing every time... And Winddle Poons' response is to feel sorry and apologize for bothering them. The subplot about the city-parasites that hatch from a Snowglobe, become shopping carts and eventually grow into a mall was pretty interesting, although I felt it took too much time from the "main plot" (but at least it gives readers an opportunity to see the wizards in action).
"Reaper Man" has possibly the best main plot line in all Discworld books I've read so far, with some genuinely touching moment (like Miss Flitworth's final moments and resting place), even if the secondary plot line isn't quite as endearing as those from other books, IMO.
All in all, (unsurprisingly) a great book. And definitely one of my favorites so far!
Next is "Witches Abroad". I'm not as excited, as the Witches books are my least favorite sub-series so far (not counting one-shots), but "Wyrd Sisters" was a great read. And Discworld has come a looooooooong way since Equal Rites.Last edited by Lemmy; 2019-09-15 at 10:53 PM.
Homebrew Stuff:- Lemmy's Custom Weapon Generation System! - (D&D 3.X and PF)
Not all heroes wield scimitars, falchions and longbows! (I'm quite proud of this one ) - Lemmy's Homebrew Cauldron
You can find all my work here.
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2018-10-10, 01:34 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
Apropos of nothing, what was your thoughts on Reg Shoe, the leader of the "Fresh Starters"?
But, yeah, Reaper Man really does a lot to humanize Death. It's funny you should mention it, though, because I feel "Witches Abroad" does the same thing with the witches. In Wyrd Sisters they were still sketches of their characters and it's Witches Abroad that really shows them for who they are. You truly haven't seen Magrat, Gytha, and Esmerelda in their full glory yet.
A fun participation game for you: try to spot as many of the literary, mythical, and fairy tale references as you can. This particular book is jam packed with them and some of them are really great when you spot them.Spoiler: My inventory:
1 Sentient Sword
1 Jammy Dodger (I was promised tea)
1 Godwin Point.
Originally Posted by Kairos Theodosian
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2018-10-10, 02:41 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
I think Reg's character concept is super funny and creative (subversive revolutionary fighting for the rights of an oppressed people: Dead people), but in general, his scenes weren't quite as entertaining as the boogey man and vampires (vampire by marriage... Heh).
I do think Reg has a lot of potential as a character. I'd like to see him again (maybe coming into conflict with the Patrician?).
Well... Given that I still have 30 books to go through and am avoiding spoilers like the plague, AFAIK, he could be main protagonist of 15 books... Or never show up again. I dare not try to predict Sir Terry Pratchett's imagination!
And don't worry! I already learned to keep my eyes open for all sorts of in-jokes and references when reading Discworld books.Last edited by Lemmy; 2018-10-10 at 02:44 PM.
Homebrew Stuff:- Lemmy's Custom Weapon Generation System! - (D&D 3.X and PF)
Not all heroes wield scimitars, falchions and longbows! (I'm quite proud of this one ) - Lemmy's Homebrew Cauldron
You can find all my work here.
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2018-10-10, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
Hm... I guess I really should reread RM. I forgot almost everything but the main plot, which seems to be a shame.
Witches Abroad is great. As Calemyr said, the witches weren't really fleshed out before. For better or worse, WA will probably tell you if you should stick with them or maybe skip future witches books (unlikely, but no point reading things you don't enjoy)
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2018-10-10, 03:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
With Witches Abroad I Always think back on the musical we did during one of the Discworld Conventions. It was hilarious.
I must say that Reaper man is one of my least favourite Death books, but I do agree that it changes Death.Clacks-Overhead: GNU Terry Pratchett
"Magic can turn a frog into a prince. Science can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with." Terry Pratchett
"I will not yield to evil, unless she's cute."
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2018-10-10, 03:25 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
BTW, I forgot to mention, but my two favorite moments of "Reaper Man" are when the priests are super frightened at the approach of
DEATHMisses Cake (I honestly LOLed at work when reading that part) and the moment when turning the page I'm faced with a humongous "YES".Last edited by Lemmy; 2018-10-10 at 03:26 PM.
Homebrew Stuff:- Lemmy's Custom Weapon Generation System! - (D&D 3.X and PF)
Not all heroes wield scimitars, falchions and longbows! (I'm quite proud of this one ) - Lemmy's Homebrew Cauldron
You can find all my work here.
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2018-10-10, 04:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
I think that's because the sub-plot with the sentient shopping mall is pretty forgettable. The characters involved are great, but the actual story concept is bizarre even by Discworld standards and feels more like something out of Hitchhiker's Guide. In addition to all that, they're competing with Death for the spotlight, and it's an easy blow-out win for everyone's favorite anthropomorphic personification.
Witches Abroad is easily my favorite of the Witches books. It's the story that nails the characterization of the Wtches the best while being a non-stop laugh riot.
The humongous YES is one of my favorite moments in all Discworld. According to Sir Pterry, he had to spend AGES on re-writes to make sure that the words would finish exactly on the page before so that the big YES could surprise the reader.
...And then in the initial printing of the American version, they went and used a different font size and screwed it up anyway.
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2018-10-10, 07:51 PM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
Heh... That makes me glad I got the... Uh... Whatever edition mine is.
It's always fun to see creative use of the media. I wonder how they tried to reflect it in the audio books, if at all. I did listen to the Mort audio book (after reading the book), and DEATH at least is given a far more powerful and imposing voice than the other characters... Maybe they did something similar for Azrael?Homebrew Stuff:- Lemmy's Custom Weapon Generation System! - (D&D 3.X and PF)
Not all heroes wield scimitars, falchions and longbows! (I'm quite proud of this one ) - Lemmy's Homebrew Cauldron
You can find all my work here.
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2018-10-11, 02:25 AM (ISO 8601)
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Re: Reading Discworld!
I strongly recmmend not thinking of Equal Rites as a witches book. It's a very early book, Pratchett had not hit his stride yet, and it features only one of the witches, who isn't quite Granny Weatherwax yet. Wyrd Sisters is where the series starts (with all three witches) and Witches Abroad is where it gets good.
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