Throwing weapons

[Aurion]

I've been spending a lot of time trying to figure out a decent build for someone who uses throwing weapons, and I can't see to figure it out. Rogue would be ok if you have a fighter for flanking, or I suppose you could even go with a scout for more survivability... but either way a little advice please on a good build for a throwing character?

[blue_fenix]

One DM I had said he would allow a TWF character with the Quick Draw feat to throw daggers with both hands. As a Ranger, you'd have 18/13/8/3 right hand and 18/13/8 left hand at level 20. Add in the Master Thrower prestige class (I don't remember what book. Look it up in the list on wizards.com) and be a halfling for loads of fun.

[JellyPooga]

Depends on what you want to throw really...

Halfling Rogues make excellent TWF knife tossers; especially with the Halfling Rogue Racial Substitution level and Whisperknife PrC from RotW...Quick Draw, TWF, and the Master Thrower PrC are pretty much essential.

Half-Orc Barbarian/Fighters make good axe chuckers; going more for damage rather than rate-of-fire (Brutal Throw/Power Throw from Complete Adventurer to use your Str mod instead of Dex for your thrown attack bonus and power attack with thrown weapons)

Half-Ogres can lob rocks the size of houses with Hulking Hurler and/or War Hulk and/or the Rock Flinging feats from Races of Stone.

So, what specifically were you thinking of?

[Aurion]

Hmmm, obviously master thrower is a must for any throwing class, and it's in CW, which I have. The brutal throw/power throw idea seems interesting because I was thinking of making a winged character who whips throwing weapons down onto his enemies. I wonder if you were a kensai, would the enchantments count towards each axe? Or only one individual?

[Kel_Arath]

I wonder if you were a kensai, would the enchantments count towards each axe? Or only one individual?

One, just get it returning though.

[Aurion]

Ok, and if you power attack with the thrown weapon and use two hands to throw it, do you get the 2:1 power attack ratio? What about extra range since if you are throwing with two hands, it would make sense to get extra distane out of it...

[JellyPooga]

If you're going for a winged-flying-type-thrower-chappy, then take a look at Races of the Wild...there is a feat in there which lets you deal extra damage when you are at a greater elevation to your target...there's also a bunch of other 'flying' feats in there as well (better AC, better Reflex, better Maneuverability, etc.).

[Armads]

If you like the Tome of Battle, then a Bloodstorm Blade, using Thunderous Throw and the Palm Throw of the Master Thrower, could get pretty sick with Stormguard Warrior with Shruikens. Make it a halfling so you never need to roll damage dice =P

[Glyphic]

Ok, and if you power attack with the thrown weapon and use two hands to throw it, do you get the 2:1 power attack ratio? What about extra range since if you are throwing with two hands, it would make sense to get extra distane out of it...

Power attack only works for Melee attacks, not thrown weapons.

[Zincorium]

Power attack only works for Melee attacks, not thrown weapons.

Except for people with the bloodstorm blade PrC, which allows you to treat ranged attacks as melee.

Or there is also the power throw feat, which works like power attack with thrown weapons. Complete warrior, I believe.

[Fhaolan]

Ok, and if you power attack with the thrown weapon and use two hands to throw it, do you get the 2:1 power attack ratio? What about extra range since if you are throwing with two hands, it would make sense to get extra distane out of it...

D&D doesn't have any rules covering two-handed throwing weapons that I can think of, unfortunately. Prime territory for house-rules.

The only two-handed throwing weapons I'm aware of in RL are woodsman axes, the track & field 'hammer', some african throwing irons (the larger ones), and I think I remember some throwing clubs being two-handed. They've all got surprisingly good range, but seem to require special training to use accurately (Anyone *could* throw one, but to actually hit a target deliberately? That's different.)

[KillianHawkeye]

Is there by any chance a feat which reduces the time it takes to throw a two-handed non-throwing weapon from a full-round action down to a standard action?

[Attilargh]

What about extra range since if you are throwing with two hands, it would make sense to get extra distane out of it...

It would also make sense if Strength score affected throwing ranges in any way.

Thrown weapons can be thrown two-handed, but it requires a full-round action. You only apply your Str modifier once.

[Kaelik]

Depends on what you want to throw really...

Halfling Rogues make excellent TWF knife tossers; especially with the Halfling Rogue Racial Substitution level and Whisperknife PrC from RotW...Quick Draw, TWF, and the Master Thrower PrC are pretty much essential.

What exactly are the benefits of the Halfling substitution level? As far as I can tell they get less or equal sneak attack for no benefit. And Later get some okay abilities that aren't really better then what they are giving up.

[JellyPooga]

What exactly are the benefits of the Halfling substitution level? As far as I can tell they get less or equal sneak attack for no benefit. And Later get some okay abilities that aren't really better then what they are giving up.

You get 1 extra dice of SA with thrown weapons and slings, at the cost of 1 less dice of SA with everything else (ignore the table...it's wrong. Read the text). I think the skill list is slightly different (but I might be confusing it with other racial sub levels) and the ability that replaces Trap Sense is much better than Trap Sense...you already have an insanely high Relfex save...what do you need more for? On the other hand, a bad roll can ruin anyones day, so being able to re-roll your Reflex save vs. traps an be a god-send.

[Person_Man]

There are many options.

1) Bloodstorm Blade from Tome of Battle. Probably your best option.

2) Master Thrower from Complete Warrior. With the right tricks, every attack is a touch attack and it grants a free Trip attempt.

3) Disciple of the Eye from Races of the Dragon. Shuriken are special Monk weapons that you can throw and use with Flurry. Every time you ROLL to attack, your enemy must Save vs. Fear. Fear effects stack. If he fails twice, he's pretty much screwed.

4) Harpoon from Frostburn. This weapon does the same damage going in as it does coming out of the enemy. Instantly doubles your damage when combined with the Bloodstorm Blade returning ability (or a Returning Weapon, assuming you have enough hands to catch everything you throw).

5) Thri-Kreen from the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Thrown weapons can be used with the Multi-attack feat. Thri-Kreen have four arms.

6) Rogue 10 or Psychic Rogue 11 or Psychic Assassin 5: With a high rate of attack, ability damage is your best friend when fighting BBEG.

Mix these options together whatever way you like, and you can't go wrong. But I would warn you that playing a thrown weapon build can be very boring unless you have something else (skills, powers, whatever) interesting to fall back on. You essentially do the exact same option every single round of combat. Its fun for about one game session. So be flexible.

[Aurion]

Only problem is I don't have ToB so I'm working with a few more problems. Right now I was looking at Fighter5/MasterThrower5/??? The only real problem I'm seeing is that I'll be doing quite a bit less damage then a melee character would be doing. Perhaps if I duelwield throwing axes or something similar I could boost it up... but otherwise it seems like rogue7/Master thrower, or Ninja7/master thrower would be more effective. The only issue is that sneakythrow requires a move action to do the sleight of hand check to deny their dex.

[Person_Man]

Only problem is I don't have ToB so I'm working with a few more problems. Right now I was looking at Fighter5/MasterThrower5/??? The only real problem I'm seeing is that I'll be doing quite a bit less damage then a melee character would be doing. Perhaps if I duelwield throwing axes or something similar I could boost it up... but otherwise it seems like rogue7/Master thrower, or Ninja7/master thrower would be more effective. The only issue is that sneakythrow requires a move action to do the sleight of hand check to deny their dex.

Fighter 5 is a dead level, so you would never want to take it. Ranger 1/Fighter 4 would be vastly superior.

If you want a Skill Monkey Thrower, go Rogue 10/Master Thrower 5 and take the Savvy Rogue feat from Complete Scoundrel. Now you deal Str damage on all of your attacks, and they can effect enemies that are immune to Precision damage.

But with no ToB, I would probably play Psychic Warrior 5/Master Thrower 5/Psychic Assassin 5/Psychic Warrior 6-10

Pick up a Ring or Blinking and the Pierce Magical Concealment (Complete Arcane) feat, or have a friend cast Greater Invisibility on you. Now your enemies are always denied their Dex bonus. Your Master Thrower levels make all your attacks Trip attacks and touch attacks. You'll hit almost all of the time, and your enemies will often be prone. The Psychic Assassin Mind Cripple ability deals 2 points of Int damage every time you Sneak Attack (No Save) - given the large number of attacks you'll be making, you should be able to kill anything in 1 round, and cripple Wizards, Psions, and anyone who uses Combat Expertise->Improved Trip.

Follow TWF to maximize the number of attacks. Pick up the Staggering Strike (Complete Adventuter) and Craven (Champions of Ruin) feats to further buff your effectiveness.

You also have some useful psychic powers and bonus feats to further buff yourself and make your more flexible.

[Curmudgeon]

Fighter 5 is a dead level, so you would never want to take it.

... except if the alternative would impose multiclassing XP penalties.

Ranger 1/Fighter 4 would be vastly superior.

... as long as you're human/half-elf or one of those classes is favored for your race.

Always gotta keep an eye out for other classes you'll want to invest in, and avoid the multiclass penalties.

[AtomicKitKat]

While on the subject of the Harpoon(also available in Player's Guide to Faerun, I think), get Returning on it, or possibly, if you can wrangle it, Masterslaying/Fleshgrinding.

[Vasdenjas]

Warning, the following comes from dabbling in many classes, and may be looked down upon by many GM's.

I never played it, but I somewhat enjoyed creating a Dwarven Cleric 3/Ranger 3/Pious Templar 1/Battlesmith 1/Deepwarden 2/Hammer of Moradin 10

This gives a 19 BAB, free Endurance, Track, Craft Magic Arms and Armor, immune to fear, 1 favored enemy, Mettle, +Con to AC instead of Dex, +Wis damage to Warhammer, you can throw any warhammer w/ range increment of 20' at no penalty, any hammer you throw automatically gets the returning property, add goblin/drow/giant-bane to your hammer, or axiomatic, Damage reduction 6/-, add 1.5x STR damage to warhammers wielded (or thrown) with one hand, 2x STR when wielded with two hands, good Quake special ability, good Daze ability, add your base Will save to your AC 1x/day, +warhammer damage equal to your opponents base armor bonus, Shadow Walk 1x/day (but on plane of Earth), and Power Throw (attack all opponents in a 60' straight line with your thrown warhammer).

So, while you wouldn't get iterative attacks with the warhammer (when throwing), you'd sure be able to put the hurt on anything you wanted to! With a STR bonus of +6 assumed, you'd do 1d8+9+WIS+enhancement bonus+possible bane+possible axiomatic+possible favored enemy+target's base armor bonus+possible power throw damage (if you use two feats for Brutal Throw, then Power Throw) to all target's in a 60' straight line.

[Aurion]

Vasdenjas, that is just rediculous and I would never do that... Anyway, what book is psychic assassin from? I'm not sure if my DM will allow psionics or not because he doesn't know enough about them, nor do I want to be constantly explainging to him how I'm doing it. I don't need a completely optimized build, just something that will keep me up there and be fun to play. Would there be a way to take the sleight of hand check down to a free action at all, or would that have to be something homebrewed?

[Vasdenjas]

Well of course it's ridiculous, that's why it came with a disclaimer. However, it is entirely possible.

With regards to getting your sneaky shot in as a free action, there's currently no way of doing it to my knowledge, since it's a class ability, but you could talk to your GM about letting you get a custom feat that would allow it.

If you want something that's easy to handle and not too many rules, and yet fun, I'm currently playing a straight Soulknife. It's a psionic class, available in the basic SRD, but it doesn't delve too much in psionic powers, so it's a good class to ease into the psionic side of things. You don't get iterative attacks with thrown weapons until 17th level though, but you can imbue your attacks with extra damage, and special abilities, so you never have to worry about purchasing magic weapons. You can also go high-dex and dual wield if you want.

Also, you could look into the original Invisible Blade. It was meant to be a 10 level prestige class, but was cut for final printing in Complete Warrior (thus the pre-reqs seem a bit off. As printed, it requires Far Shot and Point Blank Shot, but provides no benefits at all to thrown weapons). The author posted his original intent on the web at: http://www.wakinglands.com/htm_files...ible_blade.htm
but this focuses a bit more on feinting than it does the thrown weapon benefits.

Finally, if you're a Halfling, you can go with Whisperknife, from RotW, which gives you flanking with thrown weapons, and full attack ability with one or two thrown weapons with the returning special ability.

[Mr. Moogle]

What about the feat from complete warrior Throw anything. I made a greatsword chucker build like that.

[Iku Rex]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54160
(How to make a throwing fighter with Brutal Throw and Power Throw.)

[0oo0]

D&D doesn't have any rules covering two-handed throwing weapons that I can think of, unfortunately. Prime territory for house-rules.

The only two-handed throwing weapons I'm aware of in RL are woodsman axes, the track & field 'hammer', some african throwing irons (the larger ones), and I think I remember some throwing clubs being two-handed. They've all got surprisingly good range, but seem to require special training to use accurately (Anyone *could* throw one, but to actually hit a target deliberately? That's different.)

Caber. They take 2 hands

I think that a caber-throwing character would be lots of fun to play, but a little unwieldy

[Fhaolan]

Caber. They take 2 hands

I think that a caber-throwing character would be lots of fun to play, but a little unwieldy

I was deliberately ignoring the Caber, because it *was* in 3.0 somewhere. Arms and Equipment Guide, maybe?