Professional DMs?

[TekHed]

So these days I mainly only play tabletop games as PbP on sites like the Playground or Mythweavers and a few others. I'm at a stage in my life where I'm busy, everyone else is too busy to make an in-person game happen, and frankly I enjoy the immersion and creative writing of the text format over the silly voices and inevitable junk food of the in-person experience.

I'm ALSO at a point in my gaming career (if one would call it such) that low-level, bog-standard games just aren't as appealing. Usually I'm inspired to play specific characters or builds that usually entail one or more of the following: higher than standard starting level, specific house rules such as point buy or Pathfinder feat progression, or in games like MnM starting out with more PP per PL, or using homebrew classes, races, etc. In some cases my concepts are best suited for solo play for one reason or another, and almost always my character inspirations are tied to a specific setting, or style of game.

I'm no DM/GM myself. I've tried my hand at it over the years and I'm just not good at it. I'm GREAT at world-building on a big scale, coming up with story concepts and game ideas, but I'm just missing something when it comes to the finer points of actually executing a plot within the worlds I dream up and the minutiae of creating and portraying NPCs and running well-balanced combat encounters. Moreover I just don't enjoy it. I'm much better when it comes to inhabiting the single point of view of a PC than trying to run the whole world, even when it's a world I've dreamed up.

Lately it has been proving to be MUCH harder than I remember to find a DM willing to take on such bespoke concepts, who will allow homebrew for example, and most of the games I see being advertised are too low in level, too high in level (level 30, level 100 etc.) or are otherwise unsuitable for the many inspired characters I have dreaming of life through play.

It's to the point where I am actually considering paying someone to DM, if such a thing could even be found. Some Googling shows that thee are a few out there, though usually they offer in person services. I did find one promising person on Roll20 who offers online and I PMed them but who knows how active they are or if they are still in business.

Anyway I thought it might warrant some discussion....

Since we are so used to paying for other entertainment, and since PbP DMs (and players) can often be flaky, why not hire a professional?

Would you consider paying? How much?

Off the top of my head, something like a subscription model would be better than an hourly model for PbP with a certain number of DM posts per week and a regular update schedule, so players know when to get their posts in by (and this structure might encourage more regular player interaction). I'm thinking a group of 5 players, each player pitches in $20/month, that's $100 per group per month. A DM running ten games could than be making $1,000/month or $12k a year just from enjoying a hobby.

Naturally there would need to be some terms put in place, and speaking personally I'd want to vet such a person by seeing samples of previous games. Not every DM or game is created equal of course, but I've experienced some FANTASTIC ones over the years. A lot of them burn out however, or start something and then bail when life changes and so I have a number of great characters whose stories will never be finished. Maybe making it a paid position would help both with attrition and burnout.

I know one argument I've heard against it is it should be fun and not a job, but again we pay for other kinds of entertainment, DMing is a very time intensive exercise, even in PbP because of the work required to plan and write everything, and also I believe there is room to make money doing something you love to do.

What do you all think? I'd love to have a discussion about it, and also if anyone knows any promising candidates, I have as mentioned several game ideas I really would like to find a DM for...

[Beneath]

I've looked into the economics of this and I don't think there's a way to make it work out unless you make the numbers absurd. Like, the example you gave is someone running ten consistent play-by-post games simultaneously for 50 people in total, while maintaining a paying customer base for each (which is a substantial amount of self-marketing), and still needing another job to get above the poverty line.

Play-by-post has another problem where it runs at the speed of the slowest player; running a group like that (where everyone expects to be catered to individually as a customer and everyone has their own schedule) where the group might get held up waiting for someone who will be upset with you if you don't wait sounds like a no-win situation.

I considered, briefly, putting game seats as rewards for the patreon I'm working on launching, but there are a ton of reasons why that wouldn't have worked out for me and these are just some of them. Not that it's impossible, or that I wouldn't run games for patrons, but I couldn't find a way to make it workable as a standard reward. Fundamentally, the problem comes down to the fact that time investment vs # of customers is entirely skewed; few customers at high time investment per customer means prices have to be high, which means the possible customer base is tiny.

[War_lord]

The minute someone is doing a task on commission, it stops being a hobby, and they stop being a gamer. It's a job and they're a service provider. Doing something for a fee is totally different to doing it for fun. Any artist or writer can tell you that. I think there's probably very few DMs out there who are both talented and dedicated enough to actually ask money for their services, and also willing to accept that as a service provider they're subject to the whims of the client/clients.

And yeah, there's also the question of how someone's going to make a living off that unless their living costs are exceptionally low.

[TekHed]

I've looked into the economics of this and I don't think there's a way to make it work out unless you make the numbers absurd. Like, the example you gave is someone running ten consistent play-by-post games simultaneously for 50 people in total, while maintaining a paying customer base for each (which is a substantial amount of self-marketing), and still needing another job to get above the poverty line.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting it be considered as a replacement for a normal job (though Google did turn up some examples in New York and Canada that do DM full time), but rather as a way of being compensated for investing in the time and energy of something you enjoy doing anyway.

It doesn't have to be 10 games, that was just an example, but the time investment is arguably lower with PbP, since it's not a long 6 hour session the way some pro-Dms I've found do in real life, but more like 10-20 minutes of posting here and there. Also, if one were running modules, like the Red Hand of Doom, then much of the prep work is already done, and you aren't even coming up with scenarios for different groups.

Also I disagree fundamentally with this...

The minute someone is doing a task on commission, it stops being a hobby, and they stop being a gamer. It's a job and they're a service provider. Doing something for a fee is totally different to doing it for fun. Any artist or writer can tell you that.

That assumes that no one ever enjoys their work. By your logic every professional actor, writer, musician, artist, etc. has no fun getting paid to do what they do. I think it's the exact opposite of your conclusion...ask any artist or writer if given the fact that they enjoy creating anyway, would they rather be paid for their efforts, and just about all of them will say yes.

Bottom line. I am looking for DMs to run bespoke games, and have been having a harder time as of late. It used to be fairly quick and easy. I'm sure part of it has to do with the misguided exodus to 4e and 5 e from 3.5e.

I am prepared to offer compensation but if someone wants to run a game for free I'm not going to say no.

I think the biggest advantage of paying for it is a better chance of setting terms about what kind of game you want exactly. For as much homebrew gets posted on the Playground I don't find as many games that allow it, or games that start at reasonably high levels. Games either start too low or WAY too damn high (past 20) neither of which interest me really these days.

[KillianHawkeye]

That assumes that no one ever enjoys their work. By your logic every professional actor, writer, musician, artist, etc. has no fun getting paid to do what they do. I think it's the exact opposite of your conclusion...ask any artist or writer if given the fact that they enjoy creating anyway, would they rather be paid for their efforts, and just about all of them will say yes.

Be that as it may, and it's true that I much prefer having a job that uses my art skills over one that's completely unrelated to my interests, there's still a big difference between using my artistic talents for work and using them on a personal art project. One is for work, the other is for fun.

As to the topic at hand, I don't think you're likely to find anyone who thinks they're good enough to charge people for DMing who isn't a total douche canoe.

[Mr Beer]

I'd find it difficult to arbitrate against a player who was paying me a wage to DM for them. I currently obtain positional authority by running the game and also owning the property we play in.

That said, I'm sure you can find DMs willing to run games if you pay them. There are some problems with that I can see:

- Finding DMs who are good fit for you at a reasonable price, so for example I would have been a lot more tempted to DM for minimum wage as a full time job when I was aged 16 to 21.

- Finding other players who are willing to chip in. You will either be the only guy who is actually paying the DM or playing solo in some scenarios.

- Gamers are generally more comfortable with a quid pro quo than outright wages e.g. snacks, pizza, drinks, shared expenses (dues), shared or loaned game equipment etc.

[TekHed]

Shared snacks don't work over PbP, even if I wasn't on a diet.

As I said I have found a few pro DMs in different cities but so far none for PbP. So it IS out there.

[zlefin]

iirc there was someone on these forums awhile back who did some pro dm'ing and talked about it a bit. not sure though.

It's certainly potentially doable; but as with many artistic endeavors, the earnings are really slim and it's a lot of work. Hard to live off of.

Might be a bit more feasible as a side job thing much like some of this "gig economy" stuff.

mostly I think there's just not enough of a market for it. Not that many people willing to pay enough for it to be something you can live on. (plus of course enough non-paid play sources that the competition decreases what you could get).

[TekHed]

I'm not suggesting it be someone's only income. Just a side gig.

If non-paid DMs were common enough at the level I want to play at I wouldn't even need to ask...

[zlefin]

a side gig is still competing with other things people can do as a side gig, so it still requires a fair bit of money. and really, a side gig is still going to charge wages close to what a low end job would; it still has to be worth their time after all.

I'd say the main thing is to first find a group of players all willing to pay. The real trick would be that you say you're looking for some of the less common game types/settings; which means finding one of those is further limiting the number of people who might be willing to join in on a payment plan.

while various sunk cost fallacies and such will ensure somewhat less attrition than for a standard game, there could still be a lot of attrition.

there's also a question of which payment model to use;

[Darth Ultron]

Since we are so used to paying for other entertainment, and since PbP DMs (and players) can often be flaky, why not hire a professional?

Would you consider paying? How much?

What do you all think? I'd love to have a discussion about it, and also if anyone knows any promising candidates, I have as mentioned several game ideas I really would like to find a DM for...

I real life, I have done this for Years. I guess that makes me a professional DM.

I charge per game...$100 to $500, plus each player pays a set amount into a supplies pool and a food pool(often something like $25 to start, then like $10 a game).

I run a very fast paced, very serious, very extreme ''Hard Fun'' type game with a ton of comedy and references to everything.

And, amazingly, someone who payed $100 to play in the game...shows up on time and is ready to play 100%...and then never, ever, ever, pull out their phone and say something stupid like ''lets watch some dumb YouTube videos for like three hours".

It makes a fine side job.

[TekHed]

How would you translate that to PbP Darth Ultron?

[Illven]

I real life, I have done this for Years. I guess that makes me a professional DM.

I charge per game...$100 to $500, plus each player pays a set amount into a supplies pool and a food pool(often something like $25 to start, then like $10 a game).

I run a very fast paced, very serious, very extreme ''Hard Fun'' type game with a ton of comedy and references to everything.

And, amazingly, someone who payed $100 to play in the game...shows up on time and is ready to play 100%...and then never, ever, ever, pull out their phone and say something stupid like ''lets watch some dumb YouTube videos for like three hours".

It makes a fine side job.

So each player in a slightly above standard party, may have to pay 135 for the first game, and 110 after? Or is this 500 for a full campaign set?

[Telonius]

Every once in a while this topic comes up, and it's usually the same few points made on both sides. DMing is something that people tend to give away for free. It's hard to beat that price point, unless you're giving an experience that really is completely different (and that somebody else couldn't give without making a significant investment), or if you're in an area where not many people are gaming. Hard is not impossible; but it's a rare thing for it to work.

[Darth Ultron]

So each player in a slightly above standard party, may have to pay 135 for the first game, and 110 after? Or is this 500 for a full campaign set?

Per game session. So $100 per player for me.
$25 supply pool first time, then $5 a game session.
$25 food pool, then $10 a game session. I pay this too.

For supply's and food you can substitute things for money.

How would you translate that to PbP Darth Ultron?

Well, once a mouth is way too long, but $100 a month with $25 a week sounds about right.

[TekHed]

Wow, $500 per session. Or $400-$500 per player per month?

Props to you, but where do you live where the market will support that?

I was thinking I'd be personally down to pay $20/$25 a month for a committed, reliable, DM who really understands the system, to the point where home brew or custom tweaks doesn't phase them because they just tinker encounters to match, and solid storytelling chops. I'd want to set expectations up front of course. As was noted above a DM needs to feel like they have the authority to make rulings, but ideally such things don't need to come up in the first place because things like house rules and edge cases have been discussed up front. Style has to be agreed upon as well, not just writing style, which is of supreme importance in PbP, but also things like challenge, possible character death, etc. of which there can be a great many variables. As I mentioned in my first post it's not a lack of DMs online here on the playground, I'm usually not interested in the games presented. I tend to think in terms of character first game second, though it isn't always the case. Most of the games I'm in now are either games I requested and did find DMs for or games I saw advertised and thought, that would be perfect for x character in my roster.

I'm sure it might be a challenge to find players to join me but given the fall off and attrition rate of DMs and players I feel like having some skin in the game would make everyone much more committed.

[EccentricCircle]

I think one problem would be knowing when to charge and when not.

I am told that I'm a good GM, and try to make the games I run a quality "product". Thus, in principle, I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of doing it professionally. I can see the appeal of being hired by a group of players to run a game for them, and it would probably be fairly enjoyable even if it were work.

However I wouldn't want to do that instead of running the games I currently do. Therein lies a problem. I wouldn't want to suddenly start charging the people who have been coming back to my games for years. I wouldn't want to stop running games at my local gaming club, where charging an entry fee would be right out!

However, would it be fair to have effectively a double standard where some people are getting the service for free, while others are paying a fee? Maybe that's fine if its a group of long time friends getting special treatment, vs people I don't know paying for a service. However I can see it being awkward if the customers find out.

I don't know about you, but I don't think I could run a game for people for any length of time and not become friends with them. I run open games at my local club, often meeting people for the first time. However after a few games many of those people become good friends and start coming to my home games. So what happens when a paying customer "graduates" to being a close friend and wants to join the free group? Would they still continue in the paying group, or would I effectively lose a customer?

Plus I would have to prioritise my customers over the people I was gaming with casually. Would that mean that the people I didn't know or care about were getting the better experience, whereas the people who I wanted to game with were suffering as a result of my "career" choice?

I'm sure that these issues wouldn't be insurmountable, so long as everyone knows where they stand. However I don't know I would have the professional detachment to do it. I'd be interested to see what others think.

[Epimethee]

I did just that for a few years, but in a specific frame as the game (in a fantasy setting) was linked to the work of a psychologist.

It was really interesting in many ways but the amount of work was huge, not only the game but also all the related formalities, and in the end I would have made more working in any fast food.

One of the problem is the right number of players: you need a critical amount of guys to give them a fair price and pay your expenses. We were often more than 12 around the table, based on the rentability of the event. As you play with more peoples, you have less time for each of them so you cannot go as deep as you or they wish.
It was fine for children, but really difficult to equilibrate for adults.

Another problem is the time. Even a one shot necessitate a few hours. And you wish to play a campaign, if only to keep the interest of the players. But it is hard to obtain a complete group of players willing to go all the way with you before the first session. And in a commercial setting you would have frequently someone who left the table or a new customer to drop in the middle of a running campaign. So you have to choose your stories carefully, to keep the regular players but not to exclude any new participant.

Ideally, you need the rarest customers, with time and money, and already educated to roleplaying game, so they agree to pay a right amount of money for a performance of a few hours in a small group. And those guys usually play already. It is really harder to draw and keep new players in such a setting. Too low a price mean either that you lose money, or that you play with too many peoples to really have the time necessary for a deep gaming experience but if the price is too high nobody would come.

So practically it is really hard to achieve in a true commercial sense.

[Knaight]

Wow, $500 per session. Or $400-$500 per player per month?

Props to you, but where do you live where the market will support that?

I was thinking I'd be personally down to pay $20/$25 a month for a committed, reliable, DM who really understands the system, to the point where home brew or custom tweaks doesn't phase them because they just tinker encounters to match, and solid storytelling chops. I'd want to set expectations up front of course. As was noted above a DM needs to feel like they have the authority to make rulings, but ideally such things don't need to come up in the first place because things like house rules and edge cases have been discussed up front.

This post is a pretty good example of why it's unfeasible. $25 a month is equivalent to 2 hours of my time right now, as a student who has yet to finish their degree and is working a manual labor job, who is rounding that time up. Say that there's five players, and it's $125 a month, and you've got 10 hours a month. That's about 20 minutes a day, which is an unrealistic schedule for even PbP GMing, between writing time and prep time. Free is one thing, it's a hobby being treated as one. If money's getting brought in though, it needs to be more than that, and people generally aren't willing to pay it.

The time scale gets worse when you consider that the paid experience basically needs to be significantly better than the free experience, which means more prep and writing time.

[Nifft]

There's one argument I've seen which might be applicable to DM-for-money situations:

If people pay for a thing, they seem to value it more, and thus may put a higher priority on showing up for the game.

So a price that feels expensive to the players has value to the DM (and to the group) in that players who show up regularly & on time are going to waste less of everyone else's time. The actual amount of money which reaches the DM is irrelevant -- so long as it feels sufficiently expensive to each player, there is a potential for positive value, simply by virtue of being an expensive event.

The fact of paying may even focus player attention on the game, sine it may "legitimize" the game -- and allow it to compete better for brain-share against email / fantasy football / whatever phone app.

[Durzan]

Honestly, the best way to do it is to just shop around for a free GM on Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds, and then offer to tip them as a way to sweeten the deal and encourage them to continue to GM for you. So long as they keep hosting the game every (Insert regular time schedule here), and you and your buddies have fun, give them $5 or so. If you feel like they've done a real good job, give them an extra $5 to $10.

This covers the monthly cost of a pro subscription for Roll20 and encourages a GM to stick with it, without forcing you to shell out a lot of money, or make it seem as though your money is wasted.

[Anonymouswizard]

Wow, it's this thread again.

Essentially, the problem with paid GMing is the time investment. Most GMs probably spend about an hour prepping for an hour running, I've run session on a lot less but they weren't as good.

So let's assume that I want to make money equivalent to half of what I earn as a kitchen assistant. Rounding to a rough number I get £1200 a month (varying based on actual hours worked). If I charge at minimum wage (£7.50/hour) per hour of game time, and a session lasts four hours on average I have to run about (1200/(7.50*4)=1200/30=300/10=)30 sessions in four weeks just to break even. That's more than one session a day.

So to get that to a reasonable number for a full time job while still giving me time off on a standard day I can do three things. 1) charge the entrance fee per player (which brings us down to 7.5 sessions in four weeks). 2) charge for prep time (probably getting us to 15 sessions in four weeks). 3) reuse the same material for multiple sessions. In practice you're probably doing all three.

Then you have material costs. About 90% of people willing to pay will expect professional quality maps and miniatures, probably tailored to the adventure. Maybe even 3D terrain. If you're doing it professionally you probably won't be hosting in your living room, so chances are you'll have to pay for space. Most of these are solved if playing on Roll20 or the like.


The end result is that professional GMs are people who are good enough to pull off entertaining stories, potentially have some sort of gimmick people like (such as being able to move between different rooms styled to look like different settings), and are very lucky. You might find some GMs that charge for services without it being their main job, but you'll find that most of the time it's done sporadically, in a 'I need to buy a new adventure, chip in guys' fashion.

[Blu]

There's one argument I've seen which might be applicable to DM-for-money situations:

If people pay for a thing, they seem to value it more, and thus may put a higher priority on showing up for the game.

So a price that feels expensive to the players has value to the DM (and to the group) in that players who show up regularly & on time are going to waste less of everyone else's time. The actual amount of money which reaches the DM is irrelevant -- so long as it feels sufficiently expensive to each player, there is a potential for positive value, simply by virtue of being an expensive event.

The fact of paying may even focus player attention on the game, sine it may "legitimize" the game -- and allow it to compete better for brain-share against email / fantasy football / whatever phone app.

Another argument could be made that the players could also be more toxic towards the cooperative nature of the game. Since those players now are also customers, you also need to catter to their needs since you don't want to have unhappy customers.
And now that you are paying you would care way more seriously about your personal enjoyment and should conflict arise, you can't count on compromise from those players, so people wouldn't care too much for the group or the DM, the only thing that matters is making your money and time worth it. I honestly believe that if i was paying to play i would become toxic, i would demand the DM to entertain me and would complain when i didn't like one sudden turn on the plot.
The argument for the quality of the games also stands, now players would expect a lot more on the table, that is also because of the time consuming nature of d&d, if you sink 4~5 hours playing a game it might as well be worth it, if you add money to the equation the odds just stack against the DM.

I also think it can harm the DM's enjoyment of the game. Now he needs to catter to the needs and likings of his players, each one of them, to the exclusion of his owns. There are cases where the DM's might find players that like things similar to himself, but that would be rare.

As a sidenote, books are also expensive, so having to pay for them and also have to pay to play can kill the financial viability of the thing.

All in all, i don't believe turning d&d into a service works with the nature and proposal of the game.

[2D8HP]

Wow, it's this thread again.....

It is, but from a different angle.

The previous threads that I've seen on this topic (though with the Forum being almost 15 years old I'm sure there's many I haven't seen) have been from DM's seeing if there's a paying market for their services, this is the first I've seen from a wannabe customer.

Oh, one correction to part of the original post:

...I'm sure part of it has to do with the misguided exodus to 4e and 5e Wotc D&D from 3.5e TSR D&D.....

If your going to bemoan "misguided" edition changes, why start so late?

[Kardwill]

Lately it has been proving to be MUCH harder than I remember to find a DM willing to take on such bespoke concepts, who will allow homebrew for example, and most of the games I see being advertised are too low in level, too high in level (level 30, level 100 etc.) or are otherwise unsuitable for the many inspired characters I have dreaming of life through play.

That might be a point where finding a professional GM would be harder in your case than in most people's : If you're very specific in what you want to play, then to cater to your tastes, the GM would need to recruit a paying player pool with the same preferences. He'll need specific players, specific games and expansions, specific adventures... The more specific your gaming tastes, the more unlikely you'll find a service you'd be willing to pay for. It's a little like hiring a hiking tour guide, but asking for a trek that is not in his catalog : not impossible, but unlikely unless you're ready to pay an unreasonable sum.

I know only one professional GM that says he's been pretty successful at it, but the guy doesn't do custom stuff : He wrote (and sells) his own game, created and fine-tuned a few dozen adventures, and nowadays he offers to come as an animator to conventions, schools, seminars, even prisons. And a big part of his success comes from it : It's HIS game, and it ensured him a well earned fame, meaning he has no trouble finding players, but it also means he's won't take commands for other games, as he's not as confortable with them.

[Anonymouswizard]

It is, but from a different angle.

The previous threads that I've seen on this topic (though with the Forum being almost 15 years old I'm sure there's many I haven't seen) have been from DM's seeing if there's a paying market for their services, this is the first I've seen from a wannabe customer.

Well sure, although I think I've seen it from this angle once before (might have been a year or two ago).

The thing is, the problem is the same from either end. Most players aren't willing to pay the £30+ per session that likely would be required for somebody to do it as their job, and honestly unless you're in a big city with a large enough roleplaying scene you aren't likely to be getting enough customers to survive on that, driving the price up again.

Now I also remember from some previous threads that a couple of people have managed to get paid GM gigs, but IIRC most of those are of the 'one person in the group is significantly more wealthy than the others and is willing to pay' type. Few people get the Darth Ultron style of paying $100 per player per session, although now I know he's managed to pull that off his vocal support of his GMing style makes a lot more sense.

[Jay R]

No interest. Even if you could make it work, you won't get the DMs whose games I want to play.

My last several really good DMs have been a tech writer, an independent contractor, a history teacher, and a naval officer (plus a statistical consultant, if you accept that I am competent). You simply couldn’t hire any of us for hobby-level money.

By contrast, the last two average-to-below-average DMs I’ve had are currently looking for jobs.

Really competent DMs can:

1. Plan projects
2. Write well
3. Solve problems
4. Improvise quickly
5. Keep a group of people invested, under control, and focused on a single goal
6. Communicate well, in both directions.

These people can usually make better money elsewhere than DMing is likely to pay.

[Anonymouswizard]

A thought.

The only kind of professional GMing that might bring in enough money to be worthwhile is the entire 'stream an RPG session' thing, and there you'd essentially have to split everything between four or more people, so if you want to make enough money to survive on just it you would likely have to aggressively monetise and be more popular than Critical Role combined with Critical Role and Critical Role.

But if your entire group can perform for a camera, enjoys doing so, you have an interesting game, and you don't care about how much money is coming in then it might be an interesting thing to do. You'll never make that much money off of it, but using Patreon or something similar you could probably make it so that the group isn't losing money per episode.

[Darth Ultron]

Wow, $500 per session. Or $400-$500 per player per month?

Per session. Though admittedly this is for very hard core gamers that want to spend a whole day gaming, 6am to 12am, with a morning and afternoon break. A more typical like six hour game is only like $150. Depending on how 'good' a game people want....people will pay for a good game.

Props to you, but where do you live where the market will support that?

America. It's not ''that much" money compared to doing other things. You go see a band, play, or sports event...you are likely to spend $100, maybe just for tickets...plus parking and other things.

I was thinking I'd be personally down to pay $20/$25 a month

It sounds a bit low...you want the DM to do everything perfect for a whole month...and then you will judge if you want to pay?

As was noted above a DM needs to feel like they have the authority to make rulings, but ideally such things don't need to come up in the first place because things like house rules and edge cases have been discussed up front. Style has to be agreed upon as well, not just writing style, which is of supreme importance in PbP, but also things like challenge, possible character death, etc. of which there can be a great many variables.

There are lots of variables to talk about ahead of time. For a good game, you really need everyone on the same page. In real life I do day long session zeros.

Though as DM I make rulings in the game, and the players have no say...and must accept that to play.

I'm sure it might be a challenge to find players to join me but given the fall off and attrition rate of DMs and players I feel like having some skin in the game would make everyone much more committed.

I've never tried it online. But even for a quick game like ''the players want to kill a dragon'', I'd charge $100 ($25 a player). I have found that player that pay, will play the game. They won't sit around on their phone or wander off.

I don't know about you, but I don't think I could run a game for people for any length of time and not become friends with them. I run open games at my local club, often meeting people for the first time. However after a few games many of those people become good friends and start coming to my home games. So what happens when a paying customer "graduates" to being a close friend and wants to join the free group? Would they still continue in the paying group, or would I effectively lose a customer?

I never saw this as a problem. People hire friends all the time. You don't (or should not) expect a friend to do things for free or even at a discount, if it is something worth the time to do.

Think of car repairs. Does your best friend mechanic do your car repairs for free? Maybe..but likely not, but they will still charge less then a store. But you would not expect a friend to do $500 of work on your car for free, right? How about being a DJ, or making a cake or any other such activity that takes lots of time and effort?

[Satinavian]

I'm ALSO at a point in my gaming career (if one would call it such) that low-level, bog-standard games just aren't as appealing. Usually I'm inspired to play specific characters or builds that usually entail one or more of the following: higher than standard starting level, specific house rules such as point buy or Pathfinder feat progression, or in games like MnM starting out with more PP per PL, or using homebrew classes, races, etc. In some cases my concepts are best suited for solo play for one reason or another, and almost always my character inspirations are tied to a specific setting, or style of game.

I'm no DM/GM myself. I've tried my hand at it over the years and I'm just not good at it. I'm GREAT at world-building on a big scale, coming up with story concepts and game ideas, but I'm just missing something when it comes to the finer points of actually executing a plot within the worlds I dream up and the minutiae of creating and portraying NPCs and running well-balanced combat encounters. Moreover I just don't enjoy it. I'm much better when it comes to inhabiting the single point of view of a PC than trying to run the whole world, even when it's a world I've dreamed up.

Honestly, if i had no interest to run for your taste for free, i would not run it for (small) money either. I only DM stuff i enjoy enough to DM.

Also, world-building on a big scale is not something a lot of GMs think to lack. Either they really enjoy it and want to use their own worlds or they use a setting they like and are really familiar with. It is slightly better with story concepts as a GM needs more stories than Worlds and many occassionally need an inspiration.

If you can't really fascinate me with your setting, i won't use it.