OOTS #1130 - The Discussion Thread

[brian 333]

Why are we so certain Durkula is out of the game?

He maybe staggered, but he's not down yet.

[2D8HP]

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[RMS Oceanic]

Why are we so certain Durkula is out of the game?

He maybe staggered, but he's not down yet.

He's not out of the game, he just switched teams.

[Yirggzmb]

Why are we so certain Durkula is out of the game?

He maybe staggered, but he's not down yet.

We can't be sure of anything until we get more in strip information.

However, narratively speaking, this feels like the climax of the arch. Like this is the moment everything has been leading to. I'm not ruling anything out, but I feel like it would be a bit of a let down if, in the next comic, Durkula was all "Nope, never mind!". Not that Rich couldn't make something like that work, but it just feels right to me that this is the moment Durkon wins after all this time.

[Dr.Zero]

It was from a scroll. I can't imagine Malack's domains being anything other than some combination of Death, Destruction, Law, Evil, and Undeath.

Well "as far as I remember" wasn't very far, clearly.

[factotum]

Why are we so certain Durkula is out of the game?

He maybe staggered, but he's not down yet.

He literally changed from his ghost form that he's had inside Durkon's head ever since we first saw him to a full solid copy of Durkon, and said the last two words at exactly the same time as Durkon did. If that isn't meant to represent him having become a full copy of Durkon I don't know what is. Also, what narrative purpose would be served by this being some sort of fake-out? This is the culmination of Durkon's arc in this book, for it to turn out to be "I feel better now, sucks to be you, dwarf!" would be horrendously unsatisfying.

[Dr.Zero]

"None of them is right" is a cop-out. If you're talking about D&D,

Uhmm... no and no?
"None of them is right" was simply restating what I said two times before, knowing that once (and apparently twice, too) is never enough.

If we really want to make a point about this negative/positive energy comparing it with real life,

[...]

Ok, now as I see it:

[...]

Now, this of course is a way to see it. There are infinite other ways. None of them is "right".

Does a whole argument which starts with "comparing it with real life" seem like an argument about D&D (rules)?

I did talk about D&D, indeed, but, as I thought it was obvious, it was later, after the word "Mechanically".

a summoned planar ally cannot violate their contract because that's part of the spell,

You know, I always gave it for granted and never checked well, but does the spell actually say that? That he must respect the spirit of the contract, too? Not even using a nice twist of word a la Tarquin, like: "Yeah, I said I was going to join the battle at your side, but nowhere it was said that I had to stay, instead of running away immediately after. Wasn't it funny?" After all, maybe he got fed up with mortals and changed alignment, from Lawful to Chaotic, for example, in that moment. He is still a sentient being, after all.

but a summoned planar ally can certainly negotiate on the contract rather than acting like an automaton.

Yes, I remember that far. Also, if you're using "automaton" as a reference to the argument I made before, using it as a derogatory term, I want to point out that there were no automaton (in the derogatory sense) involved in the example, as far as you don't include in the automaton class even the humans, just because it happens that their functioning is ultimately dependent by some hard coded internal chemistry.

Also if you're talking about D&D, creatures who you believe "shouldn't" change alignment nevertheless can. Disagreeing with either of those isn't a reason to bring out "it's all a matter of opinion"--it's a matter of you being wrong.
If you thought Rich was going to house rule the way you would that a creature "powered by negative energy" can only be evil, then, again, you were wrong--specifically in a way that seems really hard to get to while reading anything he wrote.

Did I explain what the "matter of opinion" was about, right? Thrice in that post and twice here (with this sentence), I suppose. So may I hope is it enough? Great.

Nonetheless, yes, I thought the creature powered by pure negative energy could only be evil.
I suppose the whole "pure negative energy spirit", the whole "spectator of someone else life" and the whole fact that the spirit wasn't so naive about mortals, since he seemed mature and knowledgeable enough to plan what to do with them and able to trick them, showing him to be something different from the "empty shell which was not really inherently evil" that now we have discovered it is, might have played a part on that idea.
Congrats to the author to hiding the twist, I guess.

[eilandesq]

This update is a crowning jewel of the Durkon arc. It's the analog of Varsuuvius's "I... I must succeed."

Now, I suspect, in Malack's case, the reverse has happened. "The naive and simple snakefolk shaman" trapped inside submitted to the vampiric spirit created by Nerghal.

They integrated to a degree--that long dead core probably was the basis for the fellow-feeling between Durkon and Malack as they discussed things that only fellow clerical types could understand. But the current motivations and boundaries were those of the negative energy spirit, yes.

[Werbaer]

How come the protection from evil clasp affects Belkar? It was activated by Mr. Scruffy, so shouldn't it protect him?

[Kish]

Belkar is still the one wearing it.

[hamishspence]

But it was being worn by Belkar. Apparently any rubbing will trigger it, not just the wearer's rubbing - but only the wearer will benefit.

[prufock]

I love me a good Durkon speech. Brings a tear to the eye.

[ManuelSacha]

Sooooo... has anyone figured out why Belkar woke up, yet?
I've been reading this thread for pages and pages, but people hardly mention it, and when they do, there seems to be A LOT of confusion about it, and nobody manages to agree on anything.

[martianmister]

Sooooo... has anyone figured out why Belkar woke up, yet?
I've been reading this thread for pages and pages, but people hardly mention it, and when they do, there seems to be A LOT of confusion about it, and nobody manages to agree on anything.

Pain of triggered protection from evil clasp made him remember his horrible childhood in Kendermore.

[Particle_Man]

How come the protection from evil clasp affects Belkar? It was activated by Mr. Scruffy, so shouldn't it protect him?

Technically Mr. Scruffy was never dominated and so never needed the protection from evil anyway. A fatal miscalculation for the vampire team.

[Keltest]

Technically Mr. Scruffy was never dominated and so never needed the protection from evil anyway. A fatal miscalculation for the vampire team.

as an animal, I don't believe the vampires can dominate Mr Scruffy at all.

[Particle_Man]

Just more proof of how awesome Mr. Scruffy is.

[woweedd]

Sooooo... has anyone figured out why Belkar woke up, yet?
I've been reading this thread for pages and pages, but people hardly mention it, and when they do, there seems to be A LOT of confusion about it, and nobody manages to agree on anything.

By OOTS-universe House Rules, having a "Protection From X" spell applied to you when you yourself are X, causes quite a bit of pain, and pain is a very effective way to wake someone up. Thus, when Scruffy activated the "Protection From Evil" item, the pain knocked Belkar back to consciousness.

[ManuelSacha]

[...] his horrible childhood in Kendermore.

Psssht. If only! Best crossover ever.

By OOTS-universe House Roles, having a"Protection From X" spell applied to you when you yourself are X, causes quite a bit of pain, and pain is a very effective way to wake someone up. Thus, when Scruffy activated the "Protection Form Evil" collapse [clasp?], the pain knocked Belkar back to consciousness.

Thank you!

[Rogar Demonblud]

Specifically, it was theorized (and accepted in a 'don't have another theory' way) that the clasp effectively slapping him awake triggered the first hourly recovery of his level in NLD hit points.

[homersolo]

Okay, I am only like three years late with this question - but can someone explain to me what exactly Scruffy did to wake up and empower him with yellow magic energy (and I guess cite me to where a protection from evil thing was given to him, because I've seen mention of it in the thread, but I am lost where it came from).

[truemane]

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