El Goonish Shive X: Please Don't Feel Bad

[Kish]

This is the tenth version of the El Goonish Shive discussion thread.

Previous Threads:
El Goonish Shive (Late June 2009)
El Goonish Shive (Jan-Feb 2010)
El Goonish Shive (March 2011-May 2012; first thread to exceed one page)
El Goonish Shive (April 2013-May 2014; first thread to be closed for length at... 45 pages?)
El Goonish Shive II - I stand by my ridiculous comic (first thread to be numbered!)
El Goonish Shive III - Totally Adorkable!
El Goonish ShIVe - Dammit Dan, Stop Teasing Us
El Goonish ShiVe - Look! Squirrel!
El Goonish Shive VII: The Comic is 20 Years Old, but the Cast is Still 18.

Numbering has been fixed, at least until some future version of the thread disrupts it again.

[Anonymouswizard]

I hereby propose we label the next thread as number XII.

Anyway we should have seen these plot threads coming back, I'm sure we'll get Claudia's gender identity being yanked out from under the rug relatively soon

[Kish]

Who's Claudia?

...Do you mean Vladia?

[Anonymouswizard]

Who's Claudia?

...Do you mean Vladia?

New phone, and Herr Otto Correct hasn't yet finished striking.

Yes I meant Vladia.

[Rater202]

Vladia's gender identity is an interesting topic.

As she stated, she's perfectly comfortable in a female body, doesn't want to try transforming again even though it should be safe now for fear of almost dying or getting stuck in hybrid form again, and explicitly states that as far as she was concerned she was never really a man...

But she also only started using feminine terminology because other people felt it was weird to refer to her by masculine ones. That specifc page did not age well I think.

[Anonymouswizard]

I suspect Vladia is either agender or gender neutral. But without official Word of Dan we can't really say until it comes up in-comic.

[Kish]

The impression I got is that Vlad(ia) has a weak male gender identity and now experiences very mild dysphoria, much less severe than he experienced when stuck in half-bat form. And so, while he would prefer to have a permanent male human form if such was absolutely guaranteed, he is happy to stay there rather than risk going back to what he expected to be his life.

I think it likely that what I have just described is a worse fate than Dan is now willing to leave anyone who isn't a one-dimensional villain with and so it is no longer the case.

[Anonymouswizard]

I think it likely that what I have just described is a worse fate than Dan is now willing to leave anyone who isn't a one-dimensional villain with and so it is no longer the case.

To be fair we're mostly waiting until Tedd and Vladia run into each other again, at which point 'do you want a body mod' is incredibly likely.

Hell, it might end up making the transformation pies canon.

[Fyraltari]

To be fair we're mostly waiting until Tedd and Vladia run into each other again.

So, about twelve years from now, then?

[Radar]

To be fair we're mostly waiting until Tedd and Vladia run into each other again, at which point 'do you want a body mod' is incredibly likely.

Hell, it might end up making the transformation pies canon.

Well... considering that Dr. Germahn is canon.

Besides, Tedd has a spell that lets the user pick their default form, so whenever the gang meets up with Vladia again, they will be able to make a choice or get a tool to change whenever they want without risk.

[Errorname]

The impression I got is that Vlad(ia) has a weak male gender identity and now experiences very mild dysphoria, much less severe than he experienced when stuck in half-bat form. And so, while he would prefer to have a permanent male human form if such was absolutely guaranteed, he is happy to stay there rather than risk going back to what he expected to be his life.

When a character says "I've never been a man in my life" and is consistently referred to with female pronouns from that point on I think that's a pretty strong sign to her gender identity. The bit about changing her name because nobody wanted to call her Vlad can be interpreted as having it forced on her, but it kind of reads like sarcasm to me.

[Maat Mons]

I'm not sure Vladia would accept a transformation even if it could be guarantied 100% safe. She may have PTSD from that first transformation, and that sort of thing doesn't go away just because you know, intellectually, that you don't need to be afraid.

[Maat Mons]

I hereby propose we label the next thread as number XII.

You don't want to go with X-2, for the 20-year-old game reference?

[Errorname]

So that's definitely new Pandora, right.

[Maat Mons]

My first though was young Susan in a flashback. But yeah, Pandora seems likely. Susan probably didn't start dying her air quite that early, and hasn't been shown doing the same ear transformation thing as Diane.

Edit: Though it would also be funny if additional descendants of Raven just started coming out of the woodwork.

[Silly Name]

So that's definitely new Pandora, right.

Ten bucks that her new name is Hope, then. Fitting, tbh.

[Errorname]

Though it would also be funny if additional descendants of Raven just started coming out of the woodwork.

I have been extremely curious about Susan's dad and his side of the family for a while. We know vampire hunters with her affinity are a thing, and we know that's Pandora's inheritable affinity specifically

It would not surprise me at all if Susan had close relatives who were professional vampire hunters

[Anonymouswizard]

Ten bucks that her new name is Hope, then. Fitting, tbh.

No bet. If not Hope then it'll be a mythological figure who's name means hope, so you'd win either way.

I will however bet five quid that Zeus takes her under his wing, and that is how Jerry's oath gets fulfilled. Either that or she somehow ends up falling in with the Moperville LGBTQIA+ community and Sam, but I don't see that as likely.


More importantly: dammit Dan when are you going to give us the story of Luke and Justin's date!?

[Errorname]

I'm really hopeful for this arc, this is a real strong start.

[Yuki Akuma]

Well, that sure is an evocative image.

Aaaaaa I'm so excited

[Radar]

That is something I did not expect honestly. Just by this page alone it might look like Pandora's attempt to retain her personality intact might have gone horribly right.

[Fyraltari]

Well, that took shorter than I expected.

[sohoedu]

So that's definitely new Pandora?

[Yuki Akuma]

So that's definitely new Pandora?

Absolutely. Dan doesn't lie in commentaries.

[Celestia]

That is something I did not expect honestly. Just by this page alone it might look like Pandora's attempt to retain her personality intact might have gone horribly right.

Really? I was getting the opposite feel.

[Rater202]

Really? I was getting the opposite feel.

We were explicitly told by the Will of Magic that it worked and that, while she will have forgotten a lot of knowledge and will be somewhat changed, she's still more or less the same person.

So it not working was never on the table...

But if she's been mentally reverted to a teenager, forgot certain details about the modern world(like light pollution, going by the panels comparing the sky), and now has to live with the legacy of the terrible things she did while insane?

All of that is going to be overwhelming.

Honestly, I'm wondering if she's going to be able to uphold her vow to help Sarah Awaken anytime soon.

[Yuki Akuma]

Really? I was getting the opposite feel.

"Gone horribly right" means that it worked perfectly, and that's a bad thing.

[Celestia]

We were explicitly told by the Will of Magic that it worked and that, while she will have forgotten a lot of knowledge and will be somewhat changed, she's still more or less the same person.

So it not working was never on the table...

Yeah, but that was, like, four years ago, so it's understandable that I'd forget.

Honestly, I'm wondering if she's going to be able to uphold her vow to help Sarah Awaken anytime soon.

Yeah, obviously she will. As we've seen with Zeus, these Immortal vows are very serious matters that they can't just ignore.

[Rater202]

Yeah, obviously she will. As we've seen with Zeus, these Immortal vows are very serious matters that they can't just ignore.

I think you may have misunderstood.

To rephrase: Not will she, can she.

Does she remember how to Awaken someone? Does she still have the magical knowledge she was going to share?

[Celestia]

I think you may have misunderstood.

To rephrase: Not will she, can she.

Does she remember how to Awaken someone? Does she still have the magical knowledge she was going to share?

Ah, gotcha. I'd say probably, yeah. Everything we've learned so far seems to indicate that how to awaken is basic information. I'm guessing the only dramatically relevant knowledge she may have possibly forgotten is her direct family relations. I suspect that she'll know that Adrian, Tedd, etc. are important people to her but not why.

Edit: Oh, and she almost certainly forgot how to undo the magic dam. Obviously.