how do Warforged see?

[Mathellyn]

They seem to be plant based with metal enhancement. So looking at Blights and Veggipygmys, as a model Blights and other animated plants have blightsight at 60'. Veggipygmies have dark vision. Warforged have neither. They have eye like adornments but how do they work with plants central nervous system?

[Thrudd]

I don't think they are plant-based- they are constructs/golems - robots made of wood and metal and other materials and animated by magic. They wouldn't have central nervous systems, as-such. They are non-living materials shaped into humanoid form, and given a sort of soul that makes the body come to life. How does an iron golem or a clay golem see? I'd think it is the same way.

[Mathellyn]

ok, so its magic. iron golems have dark vision, lower end constructs have blindsight. So shouldn't warforged have some similar sight? On the other hand, Treants have normal sight. Should enhanced visions be a feat that PC warforged get as an upgrade?

[Anonymouswizard]

A warforged is essentially a magical robot (as much as a golem is, at the very least), so we can start by assuming some very rough parallels. Were going to have rough equivalents to the processor/computer/brain, sensors that input outside data, motors that move the body around, and wiring.

Of these the only bits with an official explanation are the motor equivalents (I believe the wooden parts are supposed to act somewhat like muscles), and arguably the processor (the soul). For sensors, as Warforged have eyes and vision from high up being generally useful we can probably assume their visual sensors are located within the 'eyes'. My guess is some sort of enchanted gemstone which generates data via the way light diffracts when it enters the gemstone and that is then sent to the processor in a roughly analogous fashion to how our eyes send visual data to our brain. We can somewhat easily extend this to sound, we need something that can pick up vibrations at the right frequency and that's roughly done, it's touch, smell, and taste which give the most trouble of the 'traditional five' senses.

I suppose when you think of it in this way, upgrading to low light vision and darkvision make sense, even infravision and ultravision. You just need gemstones that can deal with the right frequencies of light (as a bonus the more 'sight modes' you get the more multicoloured your warforged eyes are).

[Psyren]

Here you go:

Warforged Senses

The warforged possess the same five senses that human beings do: sight, smell, hearing, touch, and even taste. They do not perceive the world in precisely the same way as humans do, and many of these senses are fairly dull in comparison to those of creatures of flesh and blood. But a warforged can smell smoke in the air and can gauge the extent of an injury by the pain that it feels. Many warforged value the magical component known as the tracker mask because it expands their sense of smell, allowing them to experience the world in a new way. But a warforged can still smell strong odors without the mask.

The warforged sense of taste is one of the mysteries of the race. It has little value to a soldier and creature that has no need of food. In fact, this is not something that was designed by the artificers of House Cannith. Warforged are not automatons, and not every aspect of the warforged is the result of human planning: They are creatures of magic that defy natural law. A warforged is a creature of stone and wood, yet it can feel love and hate. Is it any stranger that it should be able to smell and taste?

Short version: they were designed with enough of the same senses as their human masters to be functional at their job (war), but nobody can explain the taste thing.

[Goaty14]

Short version: they were designed with enough of the same senses as their human masters to be functional at their job (war), but nobody can explain the taste thing.

Linky

Oh, and did you know your sense of smell makes up at least 80% of your sense of taste? That's probably it, given that the quote mentions duller senses.

[Fable Wright]

ok, so its magic. iron golems have dark vision, lower end constructs have blindsight. So shouldn't warforged have some similar sight? On the other hand, Treants have normal sight. Should enhanced visions be a feat that PC warforged get as an upgrade?

A feat? Probably not. Those are quite valuable. A Warforged Component? Sure.

The thing about Warforged is that they work, and no one really knows why. Including their makers. To use a programming metaphor, Aaren d'Cannith found a precompiled kernel in Xen'drik and built an entire operating system around it. We understand a lot, but there's some features baked into the kernel that we can't really poke at or figure out why it works. The kernel supports senses, the gulra, the soul, free will, and a few other things we might not even know about. Maybe it was just made before people figured out construct darkvision, maybe they had to base it off a treant. Either way, you can download a driver (get Warforged Component) to get the increased functionality, but it doesn't come base.

[Kelb_Panthera]

They seem to be plant based with metal enhancement. So looking at Blights and Veggipygmys, as a model Blights and other animated plants have blightsight at 60'. Veggipygmies have dark vision. Warforged have neither. They have eye like adornments but how do they work with plants central nervous system?

You realize that plants don't actually -have- nervous systems to begin with? If that's your concern then your first question should be "how do plant creatures... anything that other creatures do."

[Bohandas]

Here you go:



Short version: they were designed with enough of the same senses as their human masters to be functional at their job (war), but nobody can explain the taste thing.

Presumably, despite never being stated, a sympathetic magical effect arising from yheir senses otherwise being so similar

[Tipsy_Pooka]

ok, so its magic. iron golems have dark vision, lower end constructs have blindsight. So shouldn't warforged have some similar sight? On the other hand, Treants have normal sight. Should enhanced visions be a feat that PC warforged get as an upgrade?

I agree... one of the things that has always bothered me with Warforged is their inability to functionally operate in darkness. You have a living construct that isn't required to eat, sleep, or breathe... and you make them beholden to artificial light to function in darkness. Design-wise, I wonder if this was just an oversight on the writers part, or, an intentional limitation.

Given this limitation, part of me wonders, over a long enough timeframe, would the entire race collectively become predispositoned to developing Nyctophobia. The thought of a pack of Warforged miners trapped by a cave-in, huddling around a single everburning torch is a little... haunting...

This could also introduce really interesting role-playing aspect for Warforged in general. The entire race becoming obsessed with light in all forms...

They seem to be plant based with metal enhancement. So looking at Blights and Veggipygmys, as a model Blights and other animated plants have blightsight at 60'. Veggipygmies have dark vision. Warforged have neither. They have eye like adornments but how do they work with plants central nervous system?

This makes me want to homebrew a race of living-plant "Nature"forged... capable of fast-healing in sunlight and water... yet susceptible to dessication attacks.

[lightningcat]

I agree... one of the things that has always bothered me with Warforged is their inability to functionally operate in darkness. You have a living construct that isn't required to eat, sleep, or breathe... and you make them beholden to artificial light to function in darkness. Design-wise, I wonder if this was just an oversight on the writers part, or, an intentional limitation.

Most likely a game balance issue. Although in universe they were created as line soldiers, which have no need for specialized senses, so have the equivalent of human senses makes sense.

Given this limitation, part of me wonders, over a long enough timeframe, would the entire race collectively become predispositoned to developing Nyctophobia. The thought of a pack of Warforged miners trapped by a cave-in, huddling around a single everburning torch is a little... haunting...

This could also introduce really interesting role-playing aspect for Warforged in general. The entire race becoming obsessed with light in all forms...

I could see it happening to individuals, but it would be no more likely to happen to the entire race then to humans. And many of us enjoy getting as far away from the lights as we can.

Here is a though, the warforge have equivalent vsion to humans, but do they really see things in the same way as humans? Their vision might actually look like 90s CGI effects. Close enough that they would describe things in the same way, but if you traded vision with them you would immediately notice the difference.

[GrayDeath]

Well, use Mind Switch with one and find out! ^^


Aside from that, we often used slightly more "logically Living Construct" Warforged with a +1 LA with normal Buyoff. Worked most of the time, and if not, components are a thing, so we never thought TOO deepl about missing abilities....

[Rockphed]

I agree... one of the things that has always bothered me with Warforged is their inability to functionally operate in darkness. You have a living construct that isn't required to eat, sleep, or breathe... and you make them beholden to artificial light to function in darkness. Design-wise, I wonder if this was just an oversight on the writers part, or, an intentional limitation.

Given this limitation, part of me wonders, over a long enough timeframe, would the entire race collectively become predispositoned to developing Nyctophobia. The thought of a pack of Warforged miners trapped by a cave-in, huddling around a single everburning torch is a little... haunting...

This could also introduce really interesting role-playing aspect for Warforged in general. The entire race becoming obsessed with light in all forms...

New character idea: Warforged cleric of a God of Light. He will be obsessed with taking light into the darkness, and will probably figure out how to get an infinite wand of continual light just so he can leave light behind when he finishes raiding a tomb.

[Tipsy_Pooka]

Most likely a game balance issue. Although in universe they were created as line soldiers, which have no need for specialized senses, so have the equivalent of human senses makes sense.

I could see it happening to individuals, but it would be no more likely to happen to the entire race then to humans. And many of us enjoy getting as far away from the lights as we can.

Here is a though, the warforge have equivalent vsion to humans, but do they really see things in the same way as humans? Their vision might actually look like 90s CGI effects. Close enough that they would describe things in the same way, but if you traded vision with them you would immediately notice the difference.

You're probably right about the decision being a game-balance issue (hardly game-breaking though). Hordes of Warforged, immune to the fatigue from forced marches, rampaging across the lands of their enemies... Only forced to rest when their "humanoid" commanders require sleep. Much like undead armies... In fact, this very thing lead Aundair to promote Warforged to positions of leadership (Races of Eberron pg 18).

I could see it happening to individuals, but it would be no more likely to happen to the entire race then to humans. And many of us enjoy getting as far away from the lights as we can.

For the majority of the human-species attraction to darkness is a bit of an abberation (akin to interest of TTRPGs)... especially in pre-industrial societies. "For the night is dark and full of terrors" has historically been a real-thing in our world.. nevermind a fantasy world populated by creatures that thrive on darkness. Now, think about warforged... with the equivalent senses of a human, coupled with no requirement to sleep, this leaves them in 8-10 hours of darkness, every day, to dwell on these creatures. This is why I see Warforged, as a race, developing an attachment to light in all forms.

New character idea: Warforged cleric of a God of Light. He will be obsessed with taking light into the darkness, and will probably figure out how to get an infinite wand of continual light just so he can leave light behind when he finishes raiding a tomb.

This is exactly my thought...

[chainer1216]

So im going to go real deep in Eberron mythology here, but first a warning, not everything im about to type is 100% canon, large parts of Eberrons history has been left a mystery specifically to allow DMs wiggle room to make the setting their own BUT all of it comes from Keith Baker, either from his books or his old blog so its as close to canon as we're going to get.

The original Warforged were not created by Cannith, they were ancient things found in the ruins of Xendrik. They were originally made to house the fleeing spirits trying to escape the turning of age in the plane of dreams. The componant items the Docents are whats left of these dream spirits.

Cannith took the warforged bodies they found and the ancient magic machines that made them out of Xendrik and brought them to khorvaire and moddified them for their own use and purposes but there was a problem, without the dream spirits to inhabit the warforged they were just fancy golems, they needed something to guide them. The theory the Mr. baker put out was that the spirits of the long dead are what guide warforged, that part of the proccess of being put in a warforged wiped whatever was left of the spirits memory and dulled their emotions effectively creating a whole new being. Keith Baker was coy with wether or not Cannith even knew this is what was hapoening or if it was part of the original Eldritch machines or something the spirits where doing voluntarily without anyone knowing in the living world.

So warforged have the senses they do because they are powered by dead people.

[Protato]

In my 5e FR game, Warforged were just made in factories and are basically conventional robots. I realized they had no darkvision even though one of my players was a Warforged, I decided to give them 10 feet of visible light in front of them that the party can, like small flashlight.

[Prime32]

To use a programming metaphor, Aaren d'Cannith found a precompiled kernel in Xen'drik and built an entire operating system around it.

I'd just like to interject for moment. What you're refering to as warforged, are in fact, GNU/warforged, or as I've recently taken to calling them, GNU plus warforged. A warforged is not a construct unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU core essence, spell utilities and vital integrated components comprising a full construct as defined by the Monster Manual.

Many artificers command a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called a warforged, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed in Xen'drik.

There really are warforged, and these people are using them, but they are just a part of the system they use. Warforged are the frame: the part of the system that binds the creature's physical abilities to the other enchantments that you place. The frame is an essential part of a construct, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete construct. Warforged are normally used in combination with GNU constructs: the whole system is basically GNU with warforged added, or GNU/warforged. All the so-called warforged creation forges are really forges for GNU/warforged!

- Richard d'Stallman, Focused Transmuter (Spell Versatility) 5/Cataclysm Mage 10

[Rockphed]

I agree... one of the things that has always bothered me with Warforged is their inability to functionally operate in darkness. You have a living construct that isn't required to eat, sleep, or breathe... and you make them beholden to artificial light to function in darkness. Design-wise, I wonder if this was just an oversight on the writers part, or, an intentional limitation.

Given this limitation, part of me wonders, over a long enough timeframe, would the entire race collectively become predispositoned to developing Nyctophobia. The thought of a pack of Warforged miners trapped by a cave-in, huddling around a single everburning torch is a little... haunting...

This could also introduce really interesting role-playing aspect for Warforged in general. The entire race becoming obsessed with light in all forms...



This makes me want to homebrew a race of living-plant "Nature"forged... capable of fast-healing in sunlight and water... yet susceptible to dessication attacks.

And thus we started calling them GNUforged, and it was good.

[Tipsy_Pooka]

And thus we started calling them GNUforged, and it was good.

Right... I felt the same way reading that last one...

Back on topic... for me, if was interested in being a nice DM, I'd be tempted to give them Darkvision 60' and call it a day...

Real DM me is still REALLY tempted to make them unintentional zealots of **insert God of Light here***

The original Warforged were not created by Cannith, they were ancient things found in the ruins of Xendrik. They were originally made to house the fleeing spirits trying to escape the turning of age in the plane of dreams. The componant items the Docents are whats left of these dream spirits.

So warforged have the senses they do because they are powered by dead people.

Which is great for those dealing with this campaigning in Eberron... however... if one were to be using Warforged in a different setting...

[Erit]

New character idea: Warforged cleric of a God of Light. He will be obsessed with taking light into the darkness, and will probably figure out how to get an infinite wand of continual light just so he can leave light behind when he finishes raiding a tomb.

But would he Praise the Sun?

[Rockphed]

But would he Praise the Sun?

Not all gods of light are gods of the sun. So he might worship Pelor the Burning Hate, or he might worship Photos, god of light and darkness. I was trying to be setting neutral there.

[DeTess]

Not all gods of light are gods of the sun. So he might worship Pelor the Burning Hate, or he might worship Photos, god of light and darkness. I was trying to be setting neutral there.

That was a Dark Souls reference :P

[Erit]

Not all gods of light are gods of the sun. So he might worship Pelor the Burning Hate, or he might worship Photos, god of light and darkness. I was trying to be setting neutral there.

True, but if one worships light one should, naturally, revere the greatest light of day as well.

That was a Dark Souls reference :P

Indeed it was, skeleton!