Erfworld Thread XI: Finally, it's HAMMER-TIME!

[Kornaki]

The death of Vinny killed any real desire to keep going with this. You had someone you could feel for and then you threw him into a portal to die for what? I'd say we'll see down the road but I don't think we will.

Vinnie or ceasar?

Is it bad I'm willing to believe Vinnie got thrown into a portal and I just forgot about it?

[deuterio12]

The death of Vinny killed any real desire to keep going with this. You had someone you could feel for and then you threw him into a portal to die for what? I'd say we'll see down the road but I don't think we will.

Caesar was the one who thrown into a portal and die, we haven't heard from Vinnie for a while.

[Welf]

Spoiler: new update

Show

It was building up to a kind of interesting conflict [...] But nope, tower outta nowhere. Conflict over. Pack it up everyone.

I abridged your post a bit. I think we can use that as generic post for new updates.

[keybounce]

It's a second chapter to a single prologue. Not 2 prologues. And certainly not 4. Just one multi-chapter single prologue.

Oh, and we see what a tower appearing out of now where does to other sides..

[-D-]

My humble suggestion for Erfworld Thread XII: Tower outta nowhere!

[Aquillion]

My humble suggestion for Erfworld Thread XII: Tower outta nowhere!

We're only on page 14! Naturally, with a fast-paced exciting story like this one, we'll be well past this part by the time we... *pfffft!*

Nope, couldn't keep a straight face.

[keybounce]

Erfworld 12: The power of the ancients: Tower here, tower there, mass destruction beyond compare

[Zalabim]

Spoiler: new update

Show

And that's that I guess. It was building up to a kind of interesting conflict, a classic tale of the entrenched traditionalist versus the innovative outsider. I was wondering what shenanigans would happen in his stay there, how he was going to convince them, and what new things we could possibly learn about a magic discipline.

But nope, tower outta nowhere. Conflict over. Pack it up everyone.

Hardly. I'd say the tension is only building. Anyway, this might be the only place on Erf where there's two signamancers interacting with the same tower. If Byrne is right about it taking two signamancers to properly read the depth of Signs, like two eyes for depth perception, then this could be a place that offers us an enhanced perspective on the whole Tutelary matter.

Anyway, that's also my proposal for next thread title. "The Tension is Buildings."

[bc56]

Hardly. I'd say the tension is only building. Anyway, this might be the only place on Erf where there's two signamancers interacting with the same tower. If Byrne is right about it taking two signamancers to properly read the depth of Signs, like two eyes for depth perception, then this could be a place that offers us an enhanced perspective on the whole Tutelary matter.

Anyway, that's also my proposal for next thread title. "The Tension is Buildings."

I appreciate that title.
And I think that if this actually does reveal something huge about the towers, it will be in the last prologue, but I suspect that if there's another one, it will be a non-sequitur

[Morty]

I definitely agree with the assessment that there's too many story threads going on and that Rob seems to want to write more stories than he ostensibly is telling. I remember that when I stopped reading, there was some Transylvito dollamancer making dolls, and there was something wrong with it but I couldn't understand what it was about and why it was important. I think it's part of why I quit.

[Otomodachi]

I'm kinda confused where this prologue character ties into Burn Notice? Is there some other pun in his name I'm missing or something? He doesn't talk or act like Michael Weston in any way shape or form, that I can see.

[keybounce]

So Rob says,

> As much as it hurts to admit it, I don't always have a fully-formed master plan in mind. With the series, the website, and...really my whole life, I sometimes do things or add things or try things just because they feel like they'll be fun, or they'll turn into something eventually.

Now, granted, this might be a little out of context, but it sounds like Rob is basically saying that he doesn't have a story-arc well planned out, or even written more than 2 strips ahead, if that. (Assuming that between writing, pencil-drawing, inking, and coloring, there's that much lead time / this many things to be worked on at the same time.)

I guess, this is the real difference between the other webcomics I read. DMFA knows where it will be ending. So does OOTS and Schlock. IWC knew (past tense), and yet came back with demand for more. Girl Genus knows where it goes. Etc.

Erfworld doesn't, it would seem.

[factotum]

I don't think your logic necessarily follows. Him not having a clear idea where the next strip is going to go because he might experiment with it doesn't mean he hasn't got an eventual goal for his story that he's aiming toward, it's just he doesn't know the path he's going to take to get there.

[guttering flame]

Different people have different creation process. Planning everything ahead is just one method. It's more important to fit your plans to what you already wrote than to force the ending you imagined when you started. Doesn't mean Erfworld is well written. The biggest problem in Erfworld is it jumps from plot to plot and never resolves any of them satisfactorily and usually finish pages before anything happens. A long term end-goal got nothing to do with those problems.

[Rockphed]

I think most of the problems with Erfworld can be traced to Rob not having a clue what the plot points should be before he writes things. This leads to detail not being conserved properly (so we get longwinded screeds about characters who end up not mattering), inevitable retcons (because he forgot what he did 3 strips ago), and a comic that would be outpaced by the snail at the bottom of "what's new with Phil and Dixie".

Which is not to say that Schlock, OotS, Girl Genius, or Snow By Night don't have pacing problems and occasional retcons. But those comics at least have structure other than "this is too long for one book. Let's split it in to a second book!"

[keybounce]

That snail hasn't moved in years.

[Aquillion]

Honestly, I don't mind slow pacing. I don't even mind side-stories and the like as long as I feel like they're serving some purpose - whether it's thematic or world-building or contributing to the main narrative indirectly, whatever.

My big problem with Erfworld, especially lately, is that so much of it - stuff we spend huge amounts of time on - seems completely pointless. What was with all that planning and interaction and focus on the development between Parson and Caesar? That was... literally most of that Parson did for the past few years of the comic, and now it's just gone with absolutely no payoff.

All of that buildup with Roger and the scroll and then... nothing. It basically served as an excuse to move Parson from one place to another and that's it.

The towers! They rendered huge amounts of worldbuilding moot by drastically changing the underlying rules of the setting and how sides interact.

Big Think. They turned out to just be a plot device to make a few changs to the setting. Woo.

And these things make it harder to trust that other developments are actually going anywhere, too.

It's not that the story is slow. It's that it, basically, keeps discarding everything it was doing up until now and starting over. I could handle slow progress, but it's almost like the story is actively staying in place by regularly discarding any progress it does make.

[Dragonus45]

So Rob says,

> As much as it hurts to admit it, I don't always have a fully-formed master plan in mind. With the series, the website, and...really my whole life, I sometimes do things or add things or try things just because they feel like they'll be fun, or they'll turn into something eventually.

Now, granted, this might be a little out of context, but it sounds like Rob is basically saying that he doesn't have a story-arc well planned out, or even written more than 2 strips ahead, if that. (Assuming that between writing, pencil-drawing, inking, and coloring, there's that much lead time / this many things to be worked on at the same time.)

I guess, this is the real difference between the other webcomics I read. DMFA knows where it will be ending. So does OOTS and Schlock. IWC knew (past tense), and yet came back with demand for more. Girl Genus knows where it goes. Etc.

Erfworld doesn't, it would seem.

I would say that this is why the various McMuffins and deus ex machina tend to make sense in the wider context of the world and can make sense thematically, like how all the kinds of magic tie to strings because the gods are Elvis and magic is some variety of strumming the stings and cords. Or at least that’s been my understanding of that bit of signamancy. Poorly explained as what those strings actually do had been it still feels so much like asspulls. Good proper foreshadowing for those kinds of things takes more then just understanding in your own head how it’s all supposed to fit together, you have to make sure your audience understands it as well and that takes at minimum a pretty consistent outline of events.

[Otomodachi]

Dear Rob,

When you receive substantial donations from people, it is appropriate and generally appreciated to give an update on what those donations are being used for. I am glad Linda is on a potential path to recovery.

Spoiler: Bitter, bitter stuff. Feel free to skip.

Show

However, when you then continue on to complain about optometrist visits, allergy specialist visits... you are putting me in the mind of Jim Baker telling his audience that they need to send JUST a LITTLE MORE money to get their prayers answered.

I work a full time job year round. 5 months of the year I pick up another 24 hours a week in waiter shifts. I haven't been able to afford to see a doctor in 7 years- save for the one time my leg was broken and I was able to prove another party was at fault- , and my eyeglass prescription is 9 years old. I would die before I went begging for donations online, you absolute putz. You made FOURTEEN eye doctor visits in 5 months? Care to elaborate? Because that, to me, makes you sound like either an indecisive moron or a hypochondriac. You've "always been healthy people" hey, welcome to aging population every damn one of us.

"Oof, I guess the whole news post has been a gigantic bummer so far. There's still more bummer-ness to come, too. (Especially when we get to State of the Finances.)" So, yeah, this is part of hitting people up for more money. Jackass.

Anyhow, yeah, this update is what finally switched me from "eh, watch and see what happens" to "delete the bookmark, done done done, you hack".

[keybounce]

If you have a serious eye problem, 14 visits isn't that unusual.

Do not think of "Someone who checks your prescription".

Think of "Someone that treats macular degeneration". Think "Eye surgery". My mother is seeing someone every three months, and we can only afford it because we have a good insurance plan.

And if you cannot get your eye prescription to work properly, you might have a serious underlying issue, and need surgery.

In fact, reading that news post:

> My ophthalmologist is concerned about retinal detachment, among other things. Linda has it quite a bit worse, having been diagnosed with early-stage macular degeneration and cataracts.

So, yea, between losing eyesight completely from two different eye-killing diseases, 14 visits to try to save your sight, and plain out telling you that his eyes are not working well enough to do his job properly, that's more than just worrying about a 9 year old pair of glasses that still works well enough with eyes that can still see.

[Mando Knight]

If you have a serious eye problem, 14 visits isn't that unusual.

Do not think of "Someone who checks your prescription".

Think of "Someone that treats macular degeneration". Think "Eye surgery". My mother is seeing someone every three months, and we can only afford it because we have a good insurance plan.

And if you cannot get your eye prescription to work properly, you might have a serious underlying issue, and need surgery.

In fact, reading that news post:

> My ophthalmologist is concerned about retinal detachment, among other things. Linda has it quite a bit worse, having been diagnosed with early-stage macular degeneration and cataracts.

So, yea, between losing eyesight completely from two different eye-killing diseases, 14 visits to try to save your sight, and plain out telling you that his eyes are not working well enough to do his job properly, that's more than just worrying about a 9 year old pair of glasses that still works well enough with eyes that can still see.

The 14 visits are also split between the two of them (who both have eye issues). Going to see a specialist 1-2 times a month about a developing major health concern isn't that strange even if it isn't immediately lifestyle-threatening.

[cervidal]

The 14 visits are also split between the two of them (who both have eye issues). Going to see a specialist 1-2 times a month about a developing major health concern isn't that strange even if it isn't immediately lifestyle-threatening.

What is strange, though, is functionally not working during most of that time.

Having to go to the doctor with semi-regularity isn't an excuse most employers will accept to simply not work.

Erfworld's audience as employer just laps it up, though. Must be nice to get a functional 26 weeks of paid sick time each year. He's basically 'earned' 27 weeks' worth of on time updates (a couple of them semi-dubiously) out of an almost 53 week year.

If he wants to claim financial hardship, look right there.

[Anteros]

At the risk of sounding like a jerk...there's only so many times someone can come to you with their hat in their hand and a sob story to ask for money. For me, Rob hit that limit a long time ago. He gets 3 grand per update and has missed how many updates since that system went into place? I don't keep track, but he's easily missed out on well over 100,000 dollars (it's honestly probably a lot more) simply because he doesn't do his job as promised. With nothing but patreon donations, Erfworld would generate over 300,000 dollars a year simply by updating on time, and he can't bother to do it. At this point I have no sympathy for any money problems he might have, even if all of his health issues are true and not exaggerated. He can take out insurance like everyone else.

Maybe I'm jaded because I work in the medical field and regularly see people scrape by and work to make ends meet even in much worse situations with much less money.

Other people obviously don't feel the same way and are still giving him money. That's their right, but I can definitely understand why some people are over it.

[keybounce]

3 grand per update, going to how many people? I think the team is 6 people now, right?

(checks news post)

OK, 7 people. And for all we know, they do have insurance, so the out of pocket is small. That doesn't mean non-existent.

Being unable to see well enough to do your artwork is sufficient reason to not do art.

Having trouble where you can only do art work part-time is sufficient reaosn to switch to lower frequency, or less work per update -- fewer panels, the drawings are "bigger" / not shrunk down as much; or more text updates that only need a single panel.

Being so concerned about his wife's health to the point of being too distracted to work?

Erfworld is not a comic that I would pay for; right now, I think Schlock and OOTS are the only ones I would, if I could afford to. But I don't begrudge Rob for trying to make money from his story telling.

Or, rather: I don't begrudge Rob for trying to run a business. It's not an easy thing to do. There's a difference between being an artist, and running a business about being an artist. Two different skill sets.

EDIT: Reading the state-of-erf part 2 post now. Yeish.

[Razade]

EDIT: Reading the state-of-erf part 2 post now. Yeish.

That's a nice way of saying it. I'll just say...wake me when it's over. I'll binge it and forget it.

[Rockphed]

Erfworld is not a comic that I would pay for; right now, I think Schlock and OOTS are the only ones I would, if I could afford to. But I don't begrudge Rob for trying to make money from his story telling.

Or, rather: I don't begrudge Rob for trying to run a business. It's not an easy thing to do. There's a difference between being an artist, and running a business about being an artist. Two different skill sets.

I have a few more that I would put on that list, but not very many. Not being an artist myself, I try not to spend too much effort criticizing artists for how they make their art, especially when I am not actually paying them for it. If I were buying Erfworld in book form, well, I probably wouldn't. But as a free comic on the internet, there isn't really that much I can say except, maybe, that I don't feel like following it anymore.

[Yuki Akuma]

Being unable to see well enough to do your artwork is sufficient reason to not do art.

Rob is not an artist. He's the writer.

[guttering flame]

Rob is not an artist. He's the writer.

Not sure I'd want to create comic pages if I was going blind. Not everyone is as passionate as Beethoven.

[Virtue]

My issue, is that Rob treats this like a collection of books or a series of graphic novels. I would happily pay 50$ to even 75$ for a really great book once it was done and published. But I don’t feel it’s right to even offer the opportunity for your readers to pay for every single page in the book, and then publish so slowly that even J.R.R. Martin would ask Rob to hurry up.

Many ‘would be artists and authors’ publish books out of pocket or find a solid publisher to front the bill, and when I keep looking over the number of times Balder has had a gofundme or a post talking about financial woes, it makes me disappointed.

As someone who did offer money though the first time, I feel like one time should be enough.

This is only my opinion,my veritable two cents. It is neither right, nor wrong, and open to many different viewpoints. It is simply that I wish he would go offline, finish his work with a publisher and submit his stories in one go, like an old school author would.

[-D-]

State of Earth Part 2: The Phantom Menace Returns

In which much is discussed about Ads, Etherium coins and basically - ROB NEEDS MORE MONEY

Apparently Erfworld needs a 3D artists.


Erfworld for me fails as both entertaining read and webcomic. The story is meandering and goes nowhere fast, while spending inordinate amount of times on bit characters, makes them interesting, and then makes a U-turn and unceremoniously kills them (lately off screen too - let's see we killed Don & Bunny (eaten off screen by bats), Caesar, Wanda).