OOTS #1134 - The Discussion Thread

[Cazero]

Hooray!! Finally!

Isn't it intersting how the empire appearantly had every right to blow up everyone else? After all the Naboo people clearly oppressed the empire when they didn't sign the trade contract with the Gauls.

(Sorry this is sloppy. I realise I am just not as good at pulling stuff from my a :-) )

No, no no. You got it all wrong.
The empire didn't exist back then. It's Sidious the Sith who was oppressed by Jedi and therefore had every right to play both sides of the galactic war he himself orchestrated to destroy his enemies and rule the galaxy.

[Ironsmith]

No, no no. You got it all wrong.
The empire didn't exist back then. It's Sidious the Sith who was oppressed by Jedi and therefore had every right to play both sides of the galactic war he himself orchestrated to destroy his enemies and rule the galaxy.

If they didn't want Anakin/Vader to murder them all, why did the Jedi practice child indoctrination?

[Mightymosy]

Since someone else derailed the thread I feel free to.....

Let's vote for our favourite Star Wars characters, FEMALE EDITION!
Why? Because it's FUN!
No bickering, no argueing, everyone just gets to pick their favourites!

I'll make a start:
1. Jyn Orso
She's everything I could ever want. Sexy, smart, good, and relatable as a heroine. And I happen for her kind of looks. 5 Stars. Now if only she had Jedi powers as well...
2. Qui'ra
In my eyes best fitting character in the entire movies. Masterfully written. Super cute actress. Awesome dresses. Would be my first pick if I were not more drawn to morally less ambigous femmes.
4.5 Stars easily.
3. Leia
How can we go wrong with Leia? We can NOT, that's how. She started it all, and she is super. Her only "fault" is that I feel later character concepts improved on the base she set, and I happen to prefer the fashion style (a.k.a. the looks) of the two top spots. Easily 4 Stars, easily 6 if you were to compare her in the context of her time.
4. Padme Amidala
I can never remember which was the real name and which was the fake name - which is telling of why I dislike the character. Quite probably the most bland female character of all of them. What was she doing in these movies again?
Her only saving grace for me is that she looked suuuper sweet in the white outfit in the second movie, and even more so in the black one in the temple scene. 2 Stars, and 1.5 are for the looks.
5. Rey
I began to like her in TFA in the beginning, but then her character arc went nowhere I particularily liked. Galaxy in flames and you whine about your parent's names? Meh. Watch how Jyn Orso does it. Tragic. All these years I waited for a fem-Jedi and I just can't warm up with the character. Her sobbing up with the evil guy who tortured her, killed his father and tyrannizes the galaxy sort of kills my sympathy.....TLJ didn't help her either, but that's not her fault.
Oh, and 7/8 pants? Who is the fashion advisor for these movies? Geeze.
1.5 Stars. For trying. At least someone had the decency to give us a chick with a sabre.

So, what about you guys? Who do you like best? Remember, everyone can have their own opinion. It's about liking, not about who's right!

Also, I just put characters here I personally liked. Feel free to add others that I forgot or simply didn't feel enough about.

[Ironsmith]

Since someone else derailed the thread I feel free to.....

Let's vote for our favourite Star Wars characters, FEMALE EDITION!
Why? Because it's FUN!
No bickering, no argueing, everyone just gets to pick their favourites!

I'll make a start:
1. Jyn Orso
She's everything I could ever want. Sexy, smart, good, and relatable as a heroine. And I happen for her kind of looks. 5 Stars. Now if only she had Jedi powers as well...
2. Qui'ra
In my eyes best fitting character in the entire movies. Masterfully written. Super cute actress. Awesome dresses. Would be my first pick if I were not more drawn to morally less ambigous femmes.
4.5 Stars easily.
3. Leia
How can we go wrong with Leia? We can NOT, that's how. She started it all, and she is super. Her only "fault" is that I feel later character concepts improved on the base she set, and I happen to prefer the fashion style (a.k.a. the looks) of the two top spots. Easily 4 Stars, easily 6 if you were to compare her in the context of her time.
4. Padme Amidala
I can never remember which was the real name and which was the fake name - which is telling of why I dislike the character. Quite probably the most bland female character of all of them. What was she doing in these movies again?
Her only saving grace for me is that she looked suuuper sweet in the white outfit in the second movie, and even more so in the black one in the temple scene. 2 Stars, and 1.5 are for the looks.
5. Rey
I began to like her in TFA in the beginning, but then her character arc went nowhere I particularily liked. Galaxy in flames and you whine about your parent's names? Meh. Watch how Jyn Orso does it. Tragic. All these years I waited for a fem-Jedi and I just can't warm up with the character. Her sobbing up with the evil guy who tortured her, killed his father and tyrannizes the galaxy sort of kills my sympathy.....TLJ didn't help her either, but that's not her fault.
Oh, and 7/8 pants? Who is the fashion advisor for these movies? Geeze.
1.5 Stars. For trying. At least someone had the decency to give us a chick with a sabre.

So, what about you guys? Who do you like best? Remember, everyone can have their own opinion. It's about liking, not about who's right!

Also, I just put characters here I personally liked. Feel free to add others that I forgot or simply didn't feel enough about.

I haven't seen Solo yet, so I'm not sure where I'd put Qi'ra, but for the most part, I find myself agreeing with this list... except Leia holds the top spot, on the grounds of being an ultimately more-developed character (having five movies to work with instead of one gives her an edge there, though). Oh, and a few more entries...

-Rose, nestling in between Padme and Rey. She gets points for mostly having her heart in the right place, and not being entirely wooden in terms of personality, but only comes out a little ahead with how forced her character seems to be in general and how heavy-handed some of her dialog/scenes are.
--Rose's sister, whose name I can't remember (if it was ever mentioned). She only had a momentary appearance in the film, but she gets definite points for being a badass good girl and making that minute and a half count. Comes in just below Jyn, who basically does that routine for most of her film.

-Captain Phasma, coming in at the very bottom. I mean, if you thought the heroine was unsympathetic, just wait until you get a stormtrooper whose entire schtick is "smug First Order officer" in the same series.

-Vice Admiral Holdo. The film makes it pretty clear from the outset that you're not supposed to like her, at least not at first, but it doesn't do such a good job of flipping it around when it turns out she was Good All Along; she was still an impediment to our heroes and provided a good portion of the motivation for them to act out the way they did... not entirely to blame for it, for obvious reasons, but it does not work well for her that most of the film's body count could have been avoided if she were a little more reasonable with Poe. That being said... warp-speed ramming is one heck of a spectacle, and definitely heroic, so I'd put her just above Rose.

Then, depending on whether we can count The Clone Wars and Rebels here...

-Hera Syndulla. Before we really get into her character, there's just something to be said for a female member of an alien race we have thus far seen mostly represented by sex slaves that not only does something, but is a central figure in one of the biggest events in galactic history. Then, when we get into her character... whoa boy, she does not disappoint. Her personality is great, she's a reasonable and competent authority figure, and she's enough of a badass to have pulled a freaking Jedi out of harm's way more than once. Definitely near the top of the list, either just below Leia or just barely surpassing her.

-Sabine Wren. Honestly, Hera and Leia are just about the only ones here who provide much in the way of competition for her. Her character arc sees her start off as idealistic, and despite becoming disillusioned with her position in regards to the empire, she gets additional points for not devolving into a cliche, angsty antihero. She also gets major badass points for having successfully led a rebellion on Mandalore while still only a teenager. And unlike Rey, who can be a bit Mary-Sueish, Sabine makes these feats believable, not only with the background of having actual training and such, but also because she continues to be a force to be reckoned with throughout Rebels, without stretching the bounds of logic too much. The Mandalorian armor definitely doesn't hurt her in the looks department, either; she makes it look more awesome than Boba or Jango Fett ever did. Definitely a contender for the top spot.

-Ahsoka Tano. Honestly, I haven't seen enough of The Clone Wars to get much of a feel for her, but what I have seen shows her to be an arrogant brat, albeit one that more often than not still has something to bring to the table. My understanding is that she grows out of it at some point, but for now, I'm gonna err on the side of caution and say she's probably middling in the list.

So, to recap;

1) Three-way tie between Hera, Leia, and Sabine
4) Jyn
5) Rose's Sister
6) Ahsoka
7) Padme
8) Vice Admiral Holdo
9) Rose
10) Rey
11-99) Random female extras
100) Phasma

[Peelee]

Since someone else derailed the thread I feel free to.....

Let's vote for our favourite Star Wars characters, FEMALE EDITION!
Why? Because it's FUN!
No bickering, no argueing, everyone just gets to pick their favourites!

I'll make a start:
1. Jyn Orso
She's everything I could ever want. Sexy, smart, good, and relatable as a heroine. And I happen for her kind of looks. 5 Stars. Now if only she had Jedi powers as well...
2. Qui'ra
In my eyes best fitting character in the entire movies. Masterfully written. Super cute actress. Awesome dresses. Would be my first pick if I were not more drawn to morally less ambigous femmes.
4.5 Stars easily.
3. Leia
How can we go wrong with Leia? We can NOT, that's how. She started it all, and she is super. Her only "fault" is that I feel later character concepts improved on the base she set, and I happen to prefer the fashion style (a.k.a. the looks) of the two top spots. Easily 4 Stars, easily 6 if you were to compare her in the context of her time.

Agree aImost entirely on all the details about Jyn and Qi'ra, but OG Leia is number one for me. Shoots at boarding stormtroopers, mouths off to Vader, never breaks under torture, and takes charge of her own rescue. Badass if ever there was one.

[nolongeralurker]

I think we need to get you a grant to continue your studies in Thread Drift.

*Update: The connection between Infesting Chickens and Florida Men has now been confirmed. See the end of page 17 and the beginning of page 18 for more details.*

By page 23 of just about any thread on any message board, the topic drift is inevitably large.

This thread drifted to a randomer place than normal, though.

What this place needs is a new comic, stat!.

Shh, don’t say that! I’m still not caught up on replying to things yet!! (I’m close, though) Besides, why would you wish death on such an interesting thread?! It’s not every day we get from Thor to Smokey the Bear! (esp. in such a fascinating way to chronicle)

Yes, but usually Star Wars has come up at least once by now.

*Breaking News: By bringing up this thread’s unusual, sad lack of Star Wars references, Peelee himself referenced Star Wars, leading to a discussion on female Star Wars characters. Alas, I regret to say that I have not seen enough Star Wars movies to be able to make a valuable contribution on the subject, so I’ll leave that to those who are better informed on this.*

Red Cloak is trying to solve a problem that is best solved by throwing Red Cloak and his cloak into the nearest handy volcano.

lol

[nolongeralurker]

Non-serious speculation:

Despite the full-page reveal and literal godhood status, Thor’s stature has actually been greatly exaggerated among the living, and he actually stands at about the height of a normal human, maybe slightly taller, and will appear as such in subsequent panels.

Funny you brought that up again, I was actually going to reply to something Rockphed replied to me about this topic (I'm throwing in brian 333's reply to Rockphed too for good measure):

I'm not entirely sure but if I had to bet I'd say we cut away next strip. For one thing, how is the Giant gonna show Thor and Durkon/Minrah talking to each other in a way that still looks awesome? Interspersing panels of Durkon and Minrah and panel's of Thor's face seems too mundane to follow that splash panel... but I do want to see this conversation... well, whatever happens, I trust the Giant to make it work

Thor probably has some ability to change his size (or to change how big Durkon and Minrah are). If he shrinks to a fraction of his current size and sits down, Durkon and Minrah might be able to converse with him without too much brain bending shots.

Thor routinely visited the Middle Earth where he would serve his guests goat stew made from his prize pair of goats whom he would resurrect the next morning so they could pull his cart until dinner time, where they would be used to feed the next night's guests.

Anyway, he never had trouble getting through the doors in those stories.

And now, the recent comments on this topic:

I expect him to converse with Durkon on a fairly even footing, though not necessarily them being the same size category. Being 600 feet tall is impressive, but makes 2-way conversation hard. At the very least, you have the "pick an eye" problem.

Kind of my thoughts on this as well. It also makes drawing the conversation in varied and interesting ways very tedious. You basically have to over-rely on extreme close-ups to avoid the issue, or forced perspective and wide angles to address it, but this can only really be done so many ways before it starts to get old. Having two entities of roughly equal size just makes it easier to play with the standard conventions of comic conversations.

From an art perspective, Durkon and Minrah can stand on his shoulder.

But when Thor visited Midgard he was people-sized. It's no stretch to imagine The Giant drawing him on the same scale as Durkon in future appearances.

I think if Thor were to shrink down now in any way it would be a letdown after/undermine last strip's splash panel. But not shrinking him has its own problems, as Lonely Tylenol so eloquently explained (better than I was able to). So I think we either don't see this conversation at all and hear about it later, which would be kind of disappointing, or the Giant could make it work somehow anyway, perhaps as brian 333 just suggested.

Edit: Added my own original quote because I meant to put it in

[Peelee]

*Breaking News: By bringing up this thread’s unusual, sad lack of Star Wars references, Peelee himself referenced Star Wars, leading to a discussion on female Star Wars characters. Alas, I regret to say that I have not seen enough Star Wars movies to be able to make a valuable contribution on the subject, so I’ll leave that to those who are better informed on this.*

So, you, uh, wanna watch Star Wars?

[nolongeralurker]

So, you, uh, wanna watch Star Wars?

I've seen Episodes 4-8 and Rogue One. Still need to watch Solo, hopefully before it leaves the theaters entirely. Also planning to watch the Prequels with my siblings sometime, just for completeness' sake, even though everyone says they're terrible.

[Particle_Man]

There is another way Thor can talk to Durkon without either changing size: use a puppet!

Speaking of prequels, where does Anakin’s mom fit in here?

[nolongeralurker]

Well, there was still two more quotes I wanted to reply to,* but I've run out of time to keep looking for them, so:

-To the person who said Tenrin still holding Sigdi's arm in the afterlife quickly crosses the line from being sweet to being creepy once you think about it: Sigdi's disembodied hand still holding onto Tenrin's dead body is sweet in a slightly creepy way. This, on the other hand, would be creepy in a slightly sweet way.

-To the person who said those in Tinkertown would be safe from the Sphinx Pox because the Order had left there by the time Hel mentions the disease in #1081: But the Order/Mechane crew already contacted it prior to that strip, so are those in Tinkertown actually safe? Anyone want to figure out the timeline of all this? (I forget if someone did in another strip)

*Yeah, I know this thread's lifespan is almost over, so the chances of anyone replying to these replies are slim to nil, but what the hay.

And now I've gotta leave for a trip, so see you all next thread, probably.

[drazen]

Well, there was still two more quotes I wanted to reply to,* but I've run out of time to keep looking for them, so:

-To the person who said Tenrin still holding Sigdi's arm in the afterlife quickly crosses the line from being sweet to being creepy once you think about it: Sigdi's disembodied hand still holding onto Tenrin's dead body is sweet in a slightly creepy way. This, on the other hand, would be creepy in a slightly sweet way.

-To the person who said those in Tinkertown would be safe from the Sphinx Pox because the Order had left there by the time Hel mentions the disease in #1081: But the Order/Mechane crew already contacted it prior to that strip, so are those in Tinkertown actually safe? Anyone want to figure out the timeline of all this? (I forget if someone did in another strip)

*Yeah, I know this thread's lifespan is almost over, so the chances of anyone replying to these replies are slim to nil, but what the hay.

And now I've gotta leave for a trip, so see you all next thread, probably.

Given that Hel is hovering over her cauldron in #1081, as well as the dialogue in that strip, I'd say she used her power to spread the disease on the boat at that point in time, not before Tinkertown. It would not have been in her interest to slow down the Mechane until the vampire reached the Godsmoot, and if she planned on getting the world destroyed, infecting the town would have been a waste of time and resources.

I guess the gnome in #969 could have picked it up, had she pet Mr. Scruffy off-panel, but that's kind of stretching things.

[RabidEel]

I kinda assumed that if Thor doesn't shrink down, he'll have our dwarves climb on to his hand and then hold it up to his face. Problem solved.

[Peelee]

I've seen Episodes 4-8 and Rogue One. Still need to watch Solo, hopefully before it leaves the theaters entirely. Also planning to watch the Prequels with my siblings sometime, just for completeness' sake, even though everyone says they're terrible.

Ah. I liked Solo, for what that's worth. And as far as the prequels go, yeah, they completely failed to live up to the hype, the Anakin romance is really poorly done, and the lightsaber fights have almost no emotional impact and are basically glowstick ballets with constantly prettier backgrounds, but they're still fun to watch if you go in to them not expecting quality like the original. Which, incidentally, is my favorite and I'm always up for seeing again.

So, you, uh, wanna watch Star Wars?

[jwhouk]

Leia is at the top of any Women of Star Wars list, and she doesn't care if you think otherwise. :-P :-)

[nabcif]

Yes, but usually Star Wars has come up at least once by now.

Which can run faster: a bear, a Wookiee, or an Ewok?

[Shining Wrath]

Thor: "What we have always feared has come--the dark alliance of the conifers and the shrubberies is threatening the end of all things even as we thwart Hel and fear the return of the Snarl. I need you, Durkon--my mightiest and most loyal servant--to lead the Grand Army of the Dwarves against the Chlorophyll Empire."

Durkon (looking grim): "So. . .it begins."

Durkon is wise enough to strike at the root of the problem. From below, where the Greenies cannot reach without effort.

You underestimate my power!

I HAVE THE HIGH GROUND!

Also, any list of Star Wars heroines that does not put Leia at the top is always wrong.

[Particle_Man]

Jyn Orso gets some points for inspiring a little girl to cosplay as her at a con, giving copies of the plans to the Death Star to anyone cosplaying as Leia.

[KorvinStarmast]

Ah. I liked Solo, for what that's worth.

I did, but the execution was spotty. Parts of it were quite good, other parts had me scratching my head. OK: favorite females in Star Wars movies in rank order.

1. Jyn
2. Q'ira (execution spotty, sadly, as per above, but I like the character's position in the story)
3. Leia
4. Vice Admiral Amilyn Holdo
5. Princess Amidala

As to my number 4 spot: she wasn't on the screen much, but what she did and the style in which she did it was so well don.

[zimmerwald1915]

Also, any list of Star Wars heroines that does not put Leia at the top is always wrong.

In light of revelations from Solo, I believe the list should include the Millennium Falcon. Not quite at the top, but certainly top eight.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Given that Hel is hovering over her cauldron in #1081, as well as the dialogue in that strip, I'd say she used her power to spread the disease on the boat at that point in time, not before Tinkertown. It would not have been in her interest to slow down the Mechane until the vampire reached the Godsmoot, and if she planned on getting the world destroyed, infecting the town would have been a waste of time and resources.

I guess the gnome in #969 could have picked it up, had she pet Mr. Scruffy off-panel, but that's kind of stretching things.

The disease has a five week incubation period. No one in Tinkertown will be symptomatic for over a month.

Jyn Orso gets some points for inspiring a little girl to cosplay as her at a con, giving copies of the plans to the Death Star to anyone cosplaying as Leia.

Okay, that is seriously awesome, and restores a bit of my interest in the con scene.

[Peelee]

Fine, fine. "Wookie" was incorrect. Good thing I looked it up or everyone would know my shame.

You make me proud.

[Ruck]

Given that Hel is hovering over her cauldron in #1081, as well as the dialogue in that strip, I'd say she used her power to spread the disease on the boat at that point in time, not before Tinkertown. It would not have been in her interest to slow down the Mechane until the vampire reached the Godsmoot, and if she planned on getting the world destroyed, infecting the town would have been a waste of time and resources.

I guess the gnome in #969 could have picked it up, had she pet Mr. Scruffy off-panel, but that's kind of stretching things.

She says Mr. Scruffy caught Sphinx Pox back in the desert; I don't know or think we can say how fast it spreads, but I don't think we can assume she somehow magically interfered at the point in time of #1081 to make it go faster. (Are gods even allowed to do that?)

[Mightymosy]

There is another way Thor can talk to Durkon without either changing size: use a puppet!

Speaking of prequels, where does Anakin’s mom fit in here?

Wherever you want her to! It's a list of favourites!

Personally I have no interest in the "Virgin Mary" character type, but no one stops you from putting her at your personal number #1 spot!

[Fish]

She says Mr. Scruffy caught Sphinx Pox back in the desert; I don't know or think we can say how fast it spreads...

There are too many possible factors. We didn't see any sign of an ongoing epidemic, so it's tough to say anything for certain.

[pendell]

Thor: "What we have always feared has come--the dark alliance of the conifers and the shrubberies is threatening the end of all things even as we thwart Hel and fear the return of the Snarl. I need you, Durkon--my mightiest and most loyal servant--to lead the Grand Army of the Dwarves against the Chlorophyll Empire."

Durkon (looking grim): "So. . .it begins."

I nominate this post for thread winner

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Peelee]

I nominate this post for thread winner

Respectfully,

Brian P.

You have my sword.

[drazen]

She says Mr. Scruffy caught Sphinx Pox back in the desert; I don't know or think we can say how fast it spreads, but I don't think we can assume she somehow magically interfered at the point in time of #1081 to make it go faster. (Are gods even allowed to do that?)

You don't think she spread it in #1081, despite hovering over the cauldron and saying "Thanks to {her} unholy power, every man, woman, and child on that ship is NOW infected" ?

Hel can send disease the way that Thor can send a storm. It is blatantly obvious she used her power to do this in #1081.

Someone in Tinkertown may have also picked it up from the cat, but there was no reason for Hel to spread the disease in Tinkertown, and since she thought it was fast acting, doing it before Durkon could be carried on the airship would have been counterproductive to her initial plan for the Godsmoot, since her cleric would no longer have a way of getting there.

[brian 333]

Wait, there were females in Star Wars? I'll have to screen it again and look for them.

[Ruck]

You don't think she spread it in #1081, despite hovering over the cauldron and saying "Thanks to {her} unholy power, every man, woman, and child on that ship is NOW infected" ?

Hel can send disease the way that Thor can send a storm. It is blatantly obvious she used her power to do this in #1081.

If it's "blatantly obvious" she did this, why does she mention that Mr. Scruffy contracted the disease in the desert? If she could spread it whenever she wanted to, why isn't she saying "I have now infected everyone on the ship with Sphinx Pox"?