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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Should I Take Sentinel?

    Hi, first question from a pretty new player. Please be gentle, haha.

    Exactly as the thread title says, I'm trying to decide if I should take the Sentinel feat for my character. Here are the details of the situation:

    Due to the circumstances of our game, the group has ended up EXTREMELY melee heavy, all except 1 character in fact. Group optimization isn't too much of a concern since we're mostly completely new/very inexperienced players and the DM just wanted everyone to make whatever they wanted to play. So he won't be putting us in any "Well, I guess someone should have rolled a Wizard, sucks to be you" situations. We ended up with (just hit level 3 last session):

    Me: Tiefling Ancients Paladin, 18 STR, 12 DEX, 14 CON, 9 INT, 10 WIS, 18 CHA
    Elf Glamour Bard
    Halfling Barbarian
    Dragonborn Fighter
    Aasimar Redemption Paladin
    Gnome Eldritch Knight Figher

    My original plan had been to go: PAM, Sentinel, Res CON, Infernal Con, CHA +2. But now I'm wondering if Sentinel would still be worth it with only the 1 non-melee character. If not, maybe bump CHA +2 at level 8 instead? And would getting CON up to +3 be important enough to take Infernal Constitution, or would I be better served by something else like STR +2?

    Thanks for any input!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Troll in the Playground
     
    LudicSavant's Avatar

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    Default Re: Should I Take Sentinel?

    Quote Originally Posted by zyxwvu4321 View Post
    Hi, first question from a pretty new player. Please be gentle, haha.

    Exactly as the thread title says, I'm trying to decide if I should take the Sentinel feat for my character. Here are the details of the situation:

    Due to the circumstances of our game, the group has ended up EXTREMELY melee heavy, all except 1 character in fact. Group optimization isn't too much of a concern since we're mostly completely new/very inexperienced players and the DM just wanted everyone to make whatever they wanted to play. So he won't be putting us in any "Well, I guess someone should have rolled a Wizard, sucks to be you" situations. We ended up with (just hit level 3 last session):

    Me: Tiefling Ancients Paladin, 18 STR, 12 DEX, 14 CON, 9 INT, 10 WIS, 18 CHA
    Elf Glamour Bard
    Halfling Barbarian
    Dragonborn Fighter
    Aasimar Redemption Paladin
    Gnome Eldritch Knight Figher

    My original plan had been to go: PAM, Sentinel, Res CON, Infernal Con, CHA +2. But now I'm wondering if Sentinel would still be worth it with only the 1 non-melee character. If not, maybe bump CHA +2 at level 8 instead? And would getting CON up to +3 be important enough to take Infernal Constitution, or would I be better served by something else like STR +2?

    Thanks for any input!
    You take Sentinel primarily because you have a good reason to make things stay still, and it sounds like you might not. If those Fighters/Barbarians/Paladins are all in melee anyways, and nobody's dropping ongoing hazards and the like, you might not. PAM / Sentinel also happens to severely screw over certain kinds of monsters (namely those that suck at attacking at ranges other than 5 feet), but I tend to find those monsters to be among the least threatening in D&D anyways and generally prefer more help against other things.

    Cha +2 is very strong for a Paladin because of the aura (among other things). Never a bad idea to take it when in doubt. Polearm Master is also excellent for a Paladin (with no need for Sentinel for it to be useful).
    Last edited by LudicSavant; 2019-02-28 at 06:11 AM. Reason: "still" not "stil"
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  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Should I Take Sentinel?

    You'd likely be looking to try and maximise the use of the third bullet point if you took Sentinel so standing next to a reckless attacking barbarian seems a decent option.

    How wedded are you to Res Con/Infernal Con? Personally I'd be inclined to take Warcaster - with the Paladin aura you're already getting +6 from stats alone before you've boosted anything. Opens up the possibility for spear/shield while still casting as well if you want the extra defence.
    Last edited by Contrast; 2019-02-28 at 06:24 AM.

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    Nobody in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Should I Take Sentinel?

    Sentinel is a great feat not only for control, but also for extra damage. SOMEBODY in your group should absolutely take it, BUT you don't want several of you taking it. Maybe talk to the other players to find out if they intend to take it. It would be mostly wasted if multiple players took it.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Troll in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Should I Take Sentinel?

    What type of Barbarian is the halfling? Because Sentinel on you combined with an an ancestral guardian on them would be amazing.

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    Default Re: Should I Take Sentinel?

    Quote Originally Posted by CTurbo View Post
    Sentinel is a great feat not only for control, but also for extra damage. SOMEBODY in your group should absolutely take it, BUT you don't want several of you taking it. Maybe talk to the other players to find out if they intend to take it. It would be mostly wasted if multiple players took it.
    Agreed. The lockdown effect will be useful, but with that many melee types, you're practically guaranteed an extra attack each round.

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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Should I Take Sentinel?

    Quote Originally Posted by CTurbo View Post
    Sentinel is a great feat not only for control, but also for extra damage. SOMEBODY in your group should absolutely take it, BUT you don't want several of you taking it. Maybe talk to the other players to find out if they intend to take it. It would be mostly wasted if multiple players took it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Grod_The_Giant View Post
    Agreed. The lockdown effect will be useful, but with that many melee types, you're practically guaranteed an extra attack each round.
    Given that everyone is probably going to be locked in melee from the jump, the effect which is most likely to trigger would be the "When a creature within your reach makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn't have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature" bullet. The guy with the most reach seems like a logical choice for it. OTOH, if they already have PAM, they were already set to get no small number of reaction-action-attacks as it was. Depending on their builds, one of the fighters or maybe the barbarian would be someone who otherwise has a lot of wasted reactions. OP should talk to the rest of the group (or at least knows everyone's playstyle). I don't think we have enough info to give one perfect answer.

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    Default Re: Should I Take Sentinel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    Given that everyone is probably going to be locked in melee from the jump, the effect which is most likely to trigger would be the "When a creature within your reach makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn't have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature" bullet. The guy with the most reach seems like a logical choice for it.
    Normally that would be the case, but sentinel makes it clear that it doesn't work with expanded reach in that regard, as you need to be within 5' of the enemy to be allowed the reaction attack in the first place.
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    Troll in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Should I Take Sentinel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corran View Post
    Normally that would be the case, but sentinel makes it clear that it doesn't work with expanded reach in that regard, as you need to be within 5' of the enemy to be allowed the reaction attack in the first place.
    Thanks, did not check the book. But that's all the more reason why the polearm guy isn't the optimal choice for the feat (along with the fact that they have more uses for their reactions).

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Lizardfolk

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    Default Re: Should I Take Sentinel?

    Well, if nobody else is going to say, then I will. Perhaps instead of taking Sentinel, you should consider Shield Master? If not you, then one of the fighters should.

    In this particular group, the feat seems much more valuable than it might normally be. Your party has an absolute blender of melee attacks lining up to take advantage of any opponent who gets knocked down, and you have the Strength to pull off a decent shove attack (especially if you already have Athletics?). Giving advantage to that many other front-line melee characters should make that feat really pay off.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Corran's Avatar

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    Default Re: Should I Take Sentinel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    Thanks, did not check the book. But that's all the more reason why the polearm guy isn't the optimal choice for the feat (along with the fact that they have more uses for their reactions).
    Yeah, if the op is commited to making use of a heavy polearm's reach, then sentinel is not a good choice. Well, he can still use the first reaction attack from PAM to immobilize someone with sentinel, and after that engage in 5' to use the reaction with sentinel reaction attacks. I am not sure if this justifies the loss of AC (I think I would prefer a spear and shield setup, even with sentinel in play).

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Lombard-O View Post
    Well, if nobody else is going to say, then I will. Perhaps instead of taking Sentinel, you should consider Shield Master? If not you, then one of the fighters should.

    In this particular group, the feat seems much more valuable than it might normally be. Your party has an absolute blender of melee attacks lining up to take advantage of any opponent who gets knocked down, and you have the Strength to pull off a decent shove attack (especially if you already have Athletics?). Giving advantage to that many other front-line melee characters should make that feat really pay off.
    We dont speak about this feat in here.
    That's a good idea. If one of the fighters is using a shield, it's probably better for that fighter to take it (since they have more feats and less need for ASI's normally, also since a bonus action attack from PAM is better on a paladin than on a s&b fighter eventually, because of IDS; same with sentinel).
    Quote Originally Posted by MaxWilson View Post
    I hereby bestow upon you a magic sword, the Sword of Corran, which will henceforth be the only thing that can permanently destroy my withered undead hand and nose.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Should I Take Sentinel?

    Thanks for all the responses! I'll try to reply to all of the questions etc, so this may be a long post.
    Quote Originally Posted by LudicSavant View Post
    You take Sentinel primarily because you have a good reason to make things stay still, and it sounds like you might not. If those Fighters/Barbarians/Paladins are all in melee anyways, and nobody's dropping ongoing hazards and the like, you might not. PAM / Sentinel also happens to severely screw over certain kinds of monsters (namely those that suck at attacking at ranges other than 5 feet), but I tend to find those monsters to be among the least threatening in D&D anyways and generally prefer more help against other things.

    Cha +2 is very strong for a Paladin because of the aura (among other things). Never a bad idea to take it when in doubt. Polearm Master is also excellent for a Paladin (with no need for Sentinel for it to be useful).
    Yes, that was my concern, that the primary use of locking something down would be wasted. Although a shower thought did occur that if I did still take Sentinel, I could keep one thing locked down while the Ball O' Blades dealt with other stuff. But as you said, anything I could do that with probably won't be a threat.

    Quote Originally Posted by Contrast View Post
    You'd likely be looking to try and maximise the use of the third bullet point if you took Sentinel so standing next to a reckless attacking barbarian seems a decent option.

    How wedded are you to Res Con/Infernal Con? Personally I'd be inclined to take Warcaster - with the Paladin aura you're already getting +6 from stats alone before you've boosted anything. Opens up the possibility for spear/shield while still casting as well if you want the extra defence.
    I'm not super tied to either of those Feats, honestly. I tried researching which would be best for maintaining concentration and found some stuff that mathed-out that Res CON is better at high proficiency. And since I hadn't planned on getting either until level 12, I went with that. But if Warcaster would be sufficient, I'd be more than happy to do that one instead. As for Infernal Con, it was pretty much only there to get my CON up to 16 after already getting +1 from Res CON. With Warcaster, I wouldn't bother with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickl_2000 View Post
    What type of Barbarian is the halfling? Because Sentinel on you combined with an an ancestral guardian on them would be amazing.
    Unknown what the Barbarian and Dragonborn Fighter will be. They had to miss this session where we hit level 3 due to illness and family gatherings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Lombard-O View Post
    Well, if nobody else is going to say, then I will. Perhaps instead of taking Sentinel, you should consider Shield Master? If not you, then one of the fighters should.

    In this particular group, the feat seems much more valuable than it might normally be. Your party has an absolute blender of melee attacks lining up to take advantage of any opponent who gets knocked down, and you have the Strength to pull off a decent shove attack (especially if you already have Athletics?). Giving advantage to that many other front-line melee characters should make that feat really pay off.
    Quote Originally Posted by Corran View Post
    Yeah, if the op is commited to making use of a heavy polearm's reach, then sentinel is not a good choice. Well, he can still use the first reaction attack from PAM to immobilize someone with sentinel, and after that engage in 5' to use the reaction with sentinel reaction attacks. I am not sure if this justifies the loss of AC (I think I would prefer a spear and shield setup, even with sentinel in play).

    We dont speak about this feat in here.
    That's a good idea. If one of the fighters is using a shield, it's probably better for that fighter to take it (since they have more feats and less need for ASI's normally, also since a bonus action attack from PAM is better on a paladin than on a s&b fighter eventually, because of IDS; same with sentinel).
    The other Paladin is actually planning to take Shield Master already. They are 100% new to any sort of RPG, not just D&D, and are extremely into the idea of playing a character that's a defender/protector of others (hence why selecting Redemption for the level 7 aura). During the first session, they kept asking if they could use their shield to block attacks heading towards other party members, etc, so we figured Shield Master would be good for their PC concept.

    Thanks again and sorry if I missed any questions! In a rush trying to get ready for work, haha.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Should I Take Sentinel?

    Quote Originally Posted by zyxwvu4321 View Post
    The other Paladin is actually planning to take Shield Master already. They are 100% new to any sort of RPG, not just D&D, and are extremely into the idea of playing a character that's a defender/protector of others (hence why selecting Redemption for the level 7 aura). During the first session, they kept asking if they could use their shield to block attacks heading towards other party members, etc, so we figured Shield Master would be good for their PC concept.
    Make sure that player is aware of both the Protection Fighting Style (Literally blocks attacks for adjacent allies) and that a creature (allied or enemy) is treated as half-cover when they're in the way of your shot.
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    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Should I Take Sentinel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Make sure that player is aware of both the Protection Fighting Style (Literally blocks attacks for adjacent allies) and that a creature (allied or enemy) is treated as half-cover when they're in the way of your shot.
    Excellent points, thanks! I'll be sure to go through that with them.

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