Support the GITP forums on Patreon
Help support GITP's forums (and ongoing server maintenance) via Patreon
Results 1 to 29 of 29

Thread: monk help...

  1. - Top - End - #1
    Banned
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    reality... except not

    Default monk help...

    what are some good core feats for monks?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PlatinumJester's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    London...In America
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: monk help...

    Improved Natural Weapon (MM)
    Superior Unarmed Strike (ToB)
    Weapon Focus Fists
    Improved Critical Fists
    Touch of Ice (BoED)
    Versatile Unarmed Strike (PHB2)
    Flying Kick (CAdv)

    Maybe take a level of Sorcerer and get the Blood Wind Spell (Spell Compenium), and the mage armour spell. Blood Wind will let you turn your fists into ranged weapons and mage armour is just decent. Plus you get a familiar which provides alertness and a bonus.

    Edit: Oops only just noticed core only. Oh well.
    Last edited by PlatinumJester; 2007-09-14 at 02:24 PM.
    Own it, pwn it, nuke it, sheep it, eat it, quick re -right it, Joe it, turn it, turnip, pimp it, gimp it, dot it, rock it, spec re - spec it...

    I'm bringing smexy back

    As a Warblade, I'm pimp as hell.

    Big up kpenguin for the chronic Avatar.

    Powergaming - because you can't roleplay when your dead.
    (\__/)
    (O.o )
    (> < ) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him dominate the World

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Troll in the Playground
     
    ElfMonkGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: monk help...

    Intuitive Attack (BoED) as well. I think that's the name, anyway.
    Zen Archery (Complete Divine... I think?)

    Edit: Wait, core? Hmm.
    Last edited by Indon; 2007-09-14 at 02:23 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4

    Default Re: monk help...

    Being frank? None. No core feat really makes a monk that much better, or is unique. That said, the ones that might help are power attack, expertise (for those times when you have to play attrition), finesse, stunning fist and improved unarmed attack, etc.

    EDIT: people, he said CORE.
    Last edited by Azerian Kelimon; 2007-09-14 at 02:27 PM.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PlatinumJester's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    London...In America
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: monk help...

    Maybe you could get yourself permantly enlarged to increase your fist damage.
    Own it, pwn it, nuke it, sheep it, eat it, quick re -right it, Joe it, turn it, turnip, pimp it, gimp it, dot it, rock it, spec re - spec it...

    I'm bringing smexy back

    As a Warblade, I'm pimp as hell.

    Big up kpenguin for the chronic Avatar.

    Powergaming - because you can't roleplay when your dead.
    (\__/)
    (O.o )
    (> < ) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him dominate the World

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Titan in the Playground
     
    lord_khaine's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: monk help...

    well if i was you i would take these feats in this order.

    1.first improved grapple because you took stunning fist as your monk bonus feat.

    2. ability focus stunning fist so you have a actual chance of stunning something besides wizards.

    3.simple weapon proficiency, so you can use a enchantet gauntlet, and also a longspear for fun.

    4. improved natural attack, it provides a decent boost to your unarmed damage.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Telonius's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Wandering in Harrekh
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: monk help...

    There really isn't much. The best one you could take is probably Leadership, and get yourself a spellcasting cohort. Otherwise: Power Attack, Weapon Focus, Improved Critical, Improved Initiative. You can safely ignore Mobility and Spring Attack, they're really not worth the feats.

    If you need something to use a feat on at low levels, Acrobatic can work for a Monk. One of the few things Monks are excellent at is getting around the battlefield to flank with your allies. You'll be tumbling past enemies most of the time to do that, and at the lower levels every bonus counts.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Darrin's Avatar

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cleveland, OH
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: monk help...

    Quote Originally Posted by tannish2 View Post
    what are some good core feats for monks?
    Improved Natural Attack is core (MM).

    Other than that... Improved Grapple (anti-spellcasting) and Improved Trip (AoOs and anti-fullattack) are somewhat useful in certain conditions.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Titan in the Playground
     
    lord_khaine's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: monk help...

    i really wouldnt take a feat like acrobatic when there so many more important feats a monk need.

    improved grapple and ability focus stunning fist should really be taken as soon as possible.
    grapple and stunning is some of the most important tactical options a monk has, and without the +4 bonus from grapple its mostly not a option.
    the +2 bonus to the dc of stunning fist isnt quite as important, but it makes it possible for you to stun something with good save and low con, or high con and bad fort save.

    besides those 2 major feats, getting simple weapon proficiency so you can use a enchantet gauntlet will save you a kings ransom, since the other option, amulet of mighty fist cost 2-3 times as much as a gauntlet with a equal bonus.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    Person_Man's Avatar

    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: monk help...

    Core Only Monks are screwed royally.

    Improved Natural Attack to bump your unarmed strike up by a size category. Improved Grapple or Trip will help situationally. Other then that, you're SOL.

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Banned
     
    OldWizardGuy

    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Texas
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: monk help...

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    besides those 2 major feats, getting simple weapon proficiency so you can use a enchantet gauntlet will save you a kings ransom, since the other option, amulet of mighty fist cost 2-3 times as much as a gauntlet with a equal bonus.
    A gauntlet is a weapon, not unarmed strike. So you will be doing less damage and not be able to use your special monk abilities with it. A gauntlet acts the same as a dagger with lower crit and a different type of damage. Not as something to extend your unarmed strikes.

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Telonius's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Wandering in Harrekh
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: monk help...

    My personal experience with Stunning Fist has been less than impressive. In a level 1-18 campaign, I was unable to successfully stun anything. Anything, at all, in 18 levels of play. (Granted, it was an undead-heavy campaign). So please bear my bias in mind when I say that spending two feats on something that probably won't work isn't the best option, even if one of those feats is "free." (I took Improved Grapple as a regular feat, and it served me much, much better than Stunning Fist did).

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Telonius's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Wandering in Harrekh
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: monk help...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelik View Post
    A gauntlet is a weapon, not unarmed strike. So you will be doing less damage and not be able to use your special monk abilities with it. A gauntlet acts the same as a dagger with lower crit and a different type of damage. Not as something to extend your unarmed strikes.
    Actually, you can. I know, it doesn't make any sense to me either. But the official FAQ says you can flurry with a Gauntlet, but aren't proficient in it.

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Kurald Galain's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jun 2007

    Default Re: monk help...

    Isn't Power Attack a bad idea with a less-than-full-BAB class?

  15. - Top - End - #15
    Troll in the Playground
     
    ElfMonkGuy

    Join Date
    Jan 2007

    Default Re: monk help...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Isn't Power Attack a bad idea with a less-than-full-BAB class?
    Depends on what it takes to hit.

    If you need to roll a 20 to hit anyway, you might as well Power Attack for everything you have, because your chance to hit (5%) doesn't go down.

  16. - Top - End - #16
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    de-trick's Avatar

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    where dreams are made
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: monk help...

    if core 2 there are a few monk feats there

    but they make the monk dragonball Z like. Shooting Ki at people, and making your fists glow
    Spoiler
    Show

    sig by Bitzeralisis

    Old Avatar by Simius

    new Avatar by Qwernt


    Tiger Paladin of HALO

  17. - Top - End - #17
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Starbuck_II's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Enterprise, Alabama
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: monk help...

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurald Galain View Post
    Isn't Power Attack a bad idea with a less-than-full-BAB class?
    Better than nothing. Sometimes you might fight an enemy you can easily hit, but can't damage well.
    Or DR enemies require damage to blow through if using fists.

  18. - Top - End - #18
    Troll in the Playground
     
    Lord Lorac Silvanos's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    IPR Violation
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: monk help...

    Power Attack is a requirement for Improved Sunder if you want to go that route, but sundering can be a costly affair.

    If you are focusing on damage output (It almost sound like a joke) you would want to take Improved Natural Attack and Weapon Focus. If you are up against low ac mooks you might want to supplement that with TWF, but against medium-high AC opponent you are better of with Improved Critical.

    Monks are not really good grapplers except against squishy targets that you do not need to have the feat to grapple anyway.

    Proficiency with the gauntlet is a good idea unless your DM is willing to implement some really sensible house rules that would allow you to enchant gloves or similar (or give the proficiency for free).
    All Yours Popcorn are belongs to me truly,
    LLS

    ___________________________________
    Avatar by Ink.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: monk help...

    Martial or Exotic Weapon proficiency in a reach trip weapon might not be a bad idea. Reach trip, enemy gets up and can't hit ya unless they got reach, then you five foot step up and full attack away. Once the baddies get bigger and/or multiple legged, I don't know what to tell ya. Pray and hope your group can handle it. Oh, skill focus (Jump) is kinda funny for a monk. With that, Run, and Acrobatics by lvl 10 you should be able to jump and fully clear 10 foot walls with a small running start easily. So smacking those pesky naturally flying creatures with a reach trip attempt on a decent roll to make 'em come tumbling down.

    Eh, just my 2c.
    "I am bleeding, making me the victor!" - Wimp Lo, 'Kung Pow'
    "Nonsense! I would never do such a thing unless you were already having been going to do that!" - Professor Hubert Farnsworth A, 'Futurama'

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Banned
     
    Zombie

    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    reality... except not

    Default Re: monk help...

    ok, now what are some other (simple) feats from other books? (im helping a player make his first character, and he doesnt know if he will enjoy the game very much yet, so hes just using the SRD, im not doing a core-only limit but thats all they player has access to, i have most of the other books, but dont wanna be copying 20 pages of stuff for 1 feat)

    if it were any other class i could make great suggestions but i SUCK at designing monks... TY for suggestions so far though.
    Last edited by tannish2; 2007-09-14 at 08:27 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Tengu's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Poland
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: monk help...

    You could also take Combat Expertise - contribute even less to combats by being even harder to hit and hitting even less often!

    Okay, probably listen to other people, not me.

    Birdman of the Church of Link's Hat

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Appalachian Mountains

    Default Re: monk help...

    Core only monk? Ouch. I would suggest playing a Rogue with Improved Unarmed Strike and Weapon Finesse. Then you can build a character that 'feels' like a monk, while still contributing in combat. You can take Two-Weapon Fighting, and then you're "flurrying". You don't have the skill points as a monk to be acrobatic, and you have no way to use your wisdom to hit in core, which makes you all kinds of multiple attribute dependent. You also don't have access to the "meta"-stunning fist type feats.

    However if you really want to right 'monk' on your character sheet, don't fall into the weapon finesse trap. prioritize wisdom, then strength, then con. Take Stunning Fist, with ability focus. In comabat, focus on taking out 'soft' protected targets via stunning fist, using tumble and high movement to get past the meat-shields. Once you have them stunned, unleash a flurry of blows with another stun, and hope your party fighter can keep the enemy "heavy's" away from you while you shut down the caster (which you can only do if they don't have spells up to stop you, and don't pass any saves against your stunning fist).


    EDIt- don't through a monk at a new player, they take a lot of effort to compete with rest of the party. Unless you use a rogue, and tell him its a monk, as suggested above.

    If you CAN use non-core, take Intuitive Attack from BoEDs. This feat removes the MAD of monks by allowing them to make their attacks with their wisdom modifier, instead of strength, or worse, dex via weapon finesse. Then focus on putting everything you can into a high wisdom, and your AC can be comparable to the fighter's. You still will have to rely on Stunning Fist, as the other feats that give you things to do with stunning fist uses are on Complete Warrior, and don't fit the 'keep it simple' nature of your request.
    Last edited by Skjaldbakka; 2007-09-14 at 08:44 PM.
    Aratos Tell
    HP:53/53 AC:19,FlatFooted:16,Touch:13
    Active Effects: Speak w/Animals
    Spells Prepared: Cure Minor Wounds*4, Flare, Calm Animals, Charm Animal, Cure Light Wounds, Animal Messenger, Flaming Sphere, Lesser Restoration, Hold Animal, Cure Mod. Wounds*2, Speak w/Plants

    Megiddo
    HP:26/26 PP: 40/40 AC:14,FlatFooted:13,Touch:13
    Active Effects:
    Spells Prepared: Light*2, Burning Hands*2, Protection f/Evil, Magic Missile, Shocking Grasp, See Invis., Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray*2

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2004

    Default Re: monk help...

    Shield Proficiency.

    No, not really, but a shield only interferes with one class feature: the AC bonus. That's it. Sure, it's great for your touch AC, but so's having one less ability score to worry about. Besides, it's something on which you can put the fortification property.

    Go with Improved Grapple in this case, because you're not going to accomplish much with Stunning Fist and a low Wisdom modifier. Go with Combat Reflexes, because you're going to take Improved Trip, focus on your Strength, and take Power Attack. Your goal is to charge and trip, when the first 3 points of a Power Attack still leave you with an attack bonus against prone enemies. The goal is to hit them and hit them fast, so start with Improved Initiative.

    By all means, look into feats that boost your Climb, Jump, Tumble, and even Swim skills -- three out of four are tied to your Strength score and all four benefit heavily from your fast movement. Jumping and charging are not exclusive to one another, and you're eventually be one of the few characters able to get a "running" start from a climbing or swimming state.

    Since you'd be going for Strength anyway, consider the half-orc: Str 18, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 6 on a 25 pt buy, with maximum ranks in Climb (or Swim), Jump, and Tumble. Start with Improved Initiative, go to Power Attack from there, and consider what Blind-Fight might do for you in the long run, defensively and offensively. Hold off on that shield until your unarmed strike is better than using a quarterstaff as a two-handed weapon with the Power Attack.

    Weapon Focus? Well, when combined with Power Attack it's either a +1 to attack or a +1 to damage (+2 with two-handed weapons), and if you're already tripping them, you're already considering a higher Power Attack value anyway.

    Just one train of thought.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Appalachian Mountains

    Default Re: monk help...

    Not that I really want to de-rail that train, but a monk can't compete on damage, and can't rely on grappling either. If you want to do good damage as a monk, call yourself a monk, but right "Rogue" and "Improved Unarmed Strike" on your character sheet. You rely on sneak attack to deal good damage, but that is better than not being capable of dealing good damage.
    Aratos Tell
    HP:53/53 AC:19,FlatFooted:16,Touch:13
    Active Effects: Speak w/Animals
    Spells Prepared: Cure Minor Wounds*4, Flare, Calm Animals, Charm Animal, Cure Light Wounds, Animal Messenger, Flaming Sphere, Lesser Restoration, Hold Animal, Cure Mod. Wounds*2, Speak w/Plants

    Megiddo
    HP:26/26 PP: 40/40 AC:14,FlatFooted:13,Touch:13
    Active Effects:
    Spells Prepared: Light*2, Burning Hands*2, Protection f/Evil, Magic Missile, Shocking Grasp, See Invis., Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray*2

  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Sep 2004

    Default Re: monk help...

    Of course, that's entirely dependent on unrealistic expectations of "good" damage and a need for the fight to go beyond the last hit point.

    If you're considering non-core feats, consider combining the Dodge tree with Deft Opportunist and Expert Tactitician from Complete Adventurer, Karmic Strike from Complete Warrior, and Robilar's Gambit from PHB II. You won't be able to afford all of them, but a monk with Dodge, Mobility, Combat Reflexes, Deft Opportunist, Robilar's Gambit, and Run can have a lot of fun against groups of enemies.

  26. - Top - End - #26
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    Mr. Moogle's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Page 666 of the DMG
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: monk help...

    The best build with a monk EVER requires the book of nine swords. take a couple levels of swordsage get the feat martial studies and get burning brand, that combined with flurry of blows = own.
    I'm the Official Monk Advocate!
    Quote Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
    Excuse me while I invent a spell to scrub my brain.
    Quote Originally Posted by turkishproverb View Post
    If you play cheese, never complain when you are killed by it.
    Stuff:
    Force Adept

    Magician




    Proud Hobgoblin slayer of the Daigo Fanclub - So glad You found your Soul Mate!

  27. - Top - End - #27
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    Damage Control's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Nevada.
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: monk help...

    Or just use the unarmed swordsage variant and save yourself the pain.

  28. - Top - End - #28
    Titan in the Playground
     
    lord_khaine's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: monk help...

    better yet, use a normal swordsage and take the feat superior unarmed combat, so you still got the ability to use light armor with your wisdom mod.

    another option is to let him pick vov of poverty, the things he lose access to isnt that big a deal for a new player, who proberly wouldnt think of them himself anyway, but the exalted bonus to ac would make him able to stand in the front rank and fight.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  29. - Top - End - #29
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    GnomePirate

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Appalachian Mountains

    Default Re: monk help...

    Well, we got 24 posts in before swordsage was brought up. The OP did say core. And swordsage for a new player is somewhat complex, even if it was allowed. Not to mention that while you might be able to convince a DM using Core to allow a feat from a sourcebook, an entire class from a new sourcebook that has a significant amount of notoriety? Not a chance.


    Of course, that's entirely dependent on unrealistic expectations of "good" damage and a need for the fight to go beyond the last hit point.
    Unrealistic? A monk can't compete in the damage department. Unless he is the only person in the party that is trying. A 2HW fighter melee-er with power attack straight up outclasses the monk in damage, without even taking anything crazy.

    This is really beating a dead horse. A monk that is trying to be effective doesn't do so by trying to compete at damage dealing. You are better off trying to draw aggro by threatening casters and throwing status effects via meta-stunning fist feats. That way you can take advantage of the fact that monks can be Very Hard To Kill.
    Last edited by Skjaldbakka; 2007-09-15 at 07:53 PM.
    Aratos Tell
    HP:53/53 AC:19,FlatFooted:16,Touch:13
    Active Effects: Speak w/Animals
    Spells Prepared: Cure Minor Wounds*4, Flare, Calm Animals, Charm Animal, Cure Light Wounds, Animal Messenger, Flaming Sphere, Lesser Restoration, Hold Animal, Cure Mod. Wounds*2, Speak w/Plants

    Megiddo
    HP:26/26 PP: 40/40 AC:14,FlatFooted:13,Touch:13
    Active Effects:
    Spells Prepared: Light*2, Burning Hands*2, Protection f/Evil, Magic Missile, Shocking Grasp, See Invis., Acid Arrow, Scorching Ray*2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •