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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default PC Interaction problems

    So I'm having an issue in the Friday-night game in which I play. Our party consists of a CG Half-Elf Ranger, a CN Orc Barbarian, my LE Elf Cleric and a Chaotic Stupid human rogue.

    I suppose you can guess with which character I am having problems.

    He's doing stupid stuff (not directly to the party, but still) that's got him headed toward evil, which as you can probably guess I don't care too much about - except that it effects the rest of the body. Tearing people limb from limb, while distasteful to my somewhat obsessive-compulsive cleric, isn't a problem - except when you roll in their bodily fluids and create such a stench that anyone within 20 feet of you needs to make a will save or be nauseated.

    We put him 20 feet ahead of us and he encountered a room full of eight goblins (we were level 2, and they were by no means the hardest thing we'd fought tonight - Undermountain is a pain). Upon stepping into the room, all the goblins failed said save and were nauseated for 5 rounds (1d4+1, our DM happened to roll high). The rogue charges in and starts cleaning house with alchemists' fire and other splash-damage things (his favorite - he doesn't care who or what he hits with them). The Orc tries to wade into melee, gets within 20 feet of the rogue, fails his save and can't do anything but vomit and move. The ranger starts shooting into melee - and my cleric, with his dex of 8 (AFTER racial adjustments) just sits out. Sits down and starts polishing his sword - there's nothing he can do, and anyway he's sick of rescuing the rogue from stupid crap (pun intended).

    I get no experience from this combat, since I didn't participate - but why WOULD I participate? The only person in danger was the rogue who put himself there AND caused the rest of us to be unable to join him without over-exposing us to danger.

    This isn't the first time the rogue's done it, either - in our last adventure, he insisted on making a pet / necklace out of a rat he KNEW to be plague-infested, causing everyone but the overly-cautious cleric to catch the disease.

    So after that, we make him travel 20 feet behind us - and we end up in a room near our exit. Three goblins and some psionic metal slug thing face us. Yelling at the rogue to STAY BACK until we're out of the way, the orc wades into melee and rages. The ranger stands by the entrance and shoots into melee. My cleric moves 20 feet out of range of the entrance and summons a skeleton to appear behind the goblins, the slug smacks the Orc for a goodly bit of damage and the rogue listens - this turn.

    Next turn. The ranger snipes a goblin. THE ROGUE CHARGES PAST EVERYONE, bringing himself up next to the slug thing and the orc. Both the ranger and the orc fail their saves and start puking, nauseated. The slug and the goblins make it (one goblin smacks my skeleton and is in turn slashed into bits by its scimtar, the other swings and misses the orc). The slug knocks the still vomiting orc unconscious (-2 hp). The rogue moves to engage the remaining goblin, bringing him within 20 feet of my cleric - who promptly fails his save and gets nauseated.

    Next round, the rogue kills himself a goblin, the rest of the party pukes, and the slug misses the rogue. The skeleton smacks the slug and goes BAMF. I use my move action to bring me behind the orc. The next round brings the end of my nausea; I finally make my save and am able to use the wand of CLW to bring the orc back into positive hit points just in time to watch the slug slam the rogue to -5. Ranger makes her save and twangs the slug with an arrow.

    Next round I heal the orc, orc slams slug, slug tries to move toward the ranger and gets AoO'd, ranger shoots slug, slug releases metal storm of stabbity death that puts the orc to 0 hp but misses the still-unstabilized rogue (-7) completely.

    Next round the ranger eats the AoO for firing at melee range and puts an arrow through what would be its skull if it had one. It drops.

    I use my last remaning spell (a prepared Cure Minor Wounds) to stabilize the rogue at -7 and empty my waterskin on him to try and cleanse him of the stench before we're brought out. I then heal the rest of the party with the wand of CLW.

    Now the player of the rogue is all annoyed and hurt that I didn't bother to heal his character past the point of not dying, and that I've apparently been a **** to his character the entire game.

    Um, yes, that's true. I told his rogue, IC, that I would watch his back and heal him on the condition that he not put my life or the party's lives in danger by his actions. He did, and I chose not to fix him beyond saving his life.

    If I were, in fact, playing in complete character, I would have simply let him die - he has been nothing but a liability to the entire party. However, that doesn't do so well for party dynamics out of character, and so I instead chose to let him heal naturally and suffer in order to try and teach him a lesson. It seemed like the thing to do.

    How do I deal with this, IC and out? How do I keep this character from running rough-shod over the rest of the party and how do I keep this player from getting butt-hurt every time there are consequences to his actions - like me not risking my neck to save a character that seems Hells-bent on achieving a TPK?

    And we just dinged level 3 - so "Dominate person him into submission" isn't really a solution.
    Mandible Bones, the Worst Pirate Ever.
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  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    Quote Originally Posted by MandibleBones View Post
    stuff
    You're evil, and we evil people (I'm Evil Good myself), know that there are two methods to dealing with a problem.
    1. Solve it
    2. Kill it.
    I vote for number two.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    JackMage666's Avatar

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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    Explain to him, in character, why you found it important to teach him that lesson.

    Explain to him OOC why you don't like his play style, and try to find a common ground or a compromise. Being the overtly suicidal player who endangers everyone around him might be what he likes to do, but the other players want to have fun too.
    If there's a rule, there's someone out there trying to figure out how to get around it just to piss off his DM.

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  4. - Top - End - #4
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    My current character (A cleric) has a CE brother (played by a friend of mine) who he keeps in line by tricking him into thinking he can have him smited at will if he does anything too evil.
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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    You're an evil cleric, just ask yourself WWPD. What Would Pelor Do?

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    Quote Originally Posted by MandibleBones View Post
    except when you roll in their bodily fluids and create such a stench that anyone within 20 feet of you needs to make a will save or be nauseated.
    That's a very unusual house rule you have there, and the DM might not want to give the chaotic stupid player something that is both overpowered against his enemies and detrimental to his own party. Honestly, this ill-conceived ability alone is probably a much bigger factor than the player's habits.
    Quote Originally Posted by MandibleBones View Post
    I get no experience from this combat, since I didn't participate
    That sounds like a DM problem rather than a problem with the rogue. Is the DM the sort that loves creating intra-party conflict?
    Quote Originally Posted by MandibleBones View Post
    How do I deal with this, IC and out? How do I keep this character from running rough-shod over the rest of the party and how do I keep this player from getting butt-hurt every time there are consequences to his actions - like me not risking my neck to save a character that seems Hells-bent on achieving a TPK?
    Frankly, you shouldn't be the one who needs those questions answered. Your DM should be taking care of this, and to be perfectly honest his enabling all this intraparty conflict is more to blame than the rogue's behavior. He's running a game in which the players are encouraged to compete, or even sabotage, each other...so, big surprise, you have a game in which players compete with and sabotage each other.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Pixie in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    Your best option is to probably deal with it out of character. Sit down with the guy and explain it to him that the reason everyone gets together to game is to have fun, and that his actions, while they might be extremely fun from himself, are causing the rest of the group to not really enjoy playing.

    If the game's not fun for everyone, than the people who aren't having fun won't want to play, and if no one wants to play, than there is no game.

    Any reasonable person, when they have it explained to them in that context, should realise what they're doing is ruining the game for everyone. It would probably work best if you had the other players there to back you up.

    And if he's unreasonable, let his character die. Or pragmatically kill him off the next time he starts being moronic.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Starsinger View Post
    You're an evil cleric, just ask yourself WWPD. What Would Pelor Do?
    Actually, he's CN. Its an oriental setting and his diety is Dragon. He also has a cannon with a tower sheild bolted onto each side that he and said brother can hide behind.

    And how are baseless threats used to prevent evil evil anyway?
    Last edited by BRC; 2007-09-15 at 01:01 AM.
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  9. - Top - End - #9
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloddyredcommie View Post
    Actually, he's CN. Its an oriental setting and his diety is Dragon. He also has a cannon with a tower sheild bolted onto each side that he and said brother can hide behind.
    Sorry, I should've clarified, I was talking to the OP...

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Titan in the Playground
     
    PirateCaptain

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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Starsinger View Post
    Sorry, I should've clarified, I was talking to the OP...
    Ah, well thats even better. if the OP was a good cleric then all he could do was either A actually kill said party member or B try to show them the error of their ways. An Evil cleric can use nasty threats like this!
    "I had [evil diety] put a curse on you while you slept, I can send you too the demiplane of a thousand eternal torments with a thought, so tone down the inconvenient killings."
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    My Homebrew:Synchronized Swordsmen,Dual Daggers,The Doctor,The Preacher,The Brawler
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  11. - Top - End - #11
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Bloddyredcommie View Post
    "I had [Pelor] put a curse on you while you slept, I can send you too the demiplane of a thousand eternal torments with a thought, so tone down the inconvenient killings."
    That's good, I'll remember that

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    I'm gonna go ahead and agree with tainsouvra on this one. Your DM is throwing out random, unbalanced bonuses (that are simultaneously detrimental) for someone acting like a jackass. That is like laughing and giving a kid a lollipop for smacking his friend in the back of the head. Funny at first, but it just encourages said kid to do it again and again, much to everyone's chagrin.

    It is, at least in part, up to the DM to not encourage disruptive behaviour within a group. The rest of it is on you to approach the player in a mature manner and explain your grievance. Of course, there's a good chance that your fellow player will be offended no matter what you do or say, but at least you'll have done what you could.
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  13. - Top - End - #13
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Lord Tataraus's Avatar

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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    Wait a second, why does everyone suffer from the sickening stench except the guy covered in that crap? Why is he immune? He should have a lot worse such as being permanently sickened due to his own stench. The best thing to do is talk to him OOC and tell him to tone it down. I had a character who deeply hated bards. Another player made a bard (with prior knowledge of my character). That didn't turn out well and the bard challenged me to a duel. Considering I was a dex-based rogue//druid shifter against a gnome bard//cleric (more focused on bard) both level 1, I would have killed him, but at that point the DM stepped in and we talked it out. If that does not work, kill him (the character that is).

  14. - Top - End - #14
    Ettin in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    If I were playing an LE cleric and had such an abominably stupid companion, I'd just keep bashing him until he stops moving. That would still be IC.

    "You have failed us for the last time, rogue." *clunk*

    But yeah, I was wondering why the DM allowed that. I mean, certain foul-smelling monsters have such abilities, but they're either undead (Ghast) or supernaturally immune to it. (Hezrou) I don't think a person would be immune to the stench even if he wallows in it periodically.
    Last edited by AslanCross; 2007-09-15 at 07:30 AM.


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  15. - Top - End - #15
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Shas aia Toriia's Avatar

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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    Just talk to the GM, if he's giving out stuff like that at level 2. By the way, how high is the save? If it's really high, just talk (see: order) the GM to take away such useful things at such a low level.

    Better yet, have him face off against "That DAMNED crab!" (somewhere around here).
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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    Most of the characters I've played (ranging from CE to LG) would by this point have made it clear to this rogue that his ability to continue breathing is now contingent upon the absence of stupid antics. "If you endanger me(evil)/this party(good) again, I will kill you." Follow through. Your GM is obviously either a total doormat, in which case he'll probably allow it, or a lover of infighting, in which case he'll enjoy the show.
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  17. - Top - End - #17
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    Being LE is actually the best alignment to be when you want to off a party member because he's being a retard. Just keep in mind that he's going to be even more of a liability as you get stronger, so you should decide what to do regardless.

    Talk to your DM. Seriously, I'd simply never allow half of what his character has done-the whole rolling in the dismembered ichor of a dead adversary I would say is an auto-jump from CN to evil, and if they were good, I'd never let it happen. Chaotic Stupid can be evaded with enough DM intervention early on.

    Remember, you are evil. LAWFUL evil. Kill him with the Justice Hammer and tell him to learn how to play the game without being an ass.
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  18. - Top - End - #18
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    I do think that your DM is not thinking this thru' logically.

    First of all, I see someone has mentioned that the human rogue probably can't take the stench as well... unless s/he has some sort of feat that allows him/her to.

    Second, given time, even the worst stench fade away.

    Third, given that it is a rather powerful stench (saves within 20 feet), s/he would have attracted a lot of attention while in dungeon. The goblins you encountered should have been alerted and set up an ambush of sorts. PLUS, s/he rolled in blood and such. Just about every other hungry creature who prefer dead meat then live ones will be hunting your group down.

    In real life, we had a player once who just don't like to bathe. This is a true story! I had to tell him that he had to bathe before he comes to a game or we will throw him out.

    There are better ways to hint to such characters. Give him a bath forcefully. Roll him in mud fto make him smell better.

    Frankly, if it were me, and the DM is kind enough to give out such good powers associated with stenches and illness... and I am not affected... I will probably use them the same way your 'friend' did. You have to admit, these saves allow your friend to deal with monsters rather effectively. However, your DM is probably inexperience to NOT use some of the 'down' side of the pwoers s/he so freely gave out.

    I am not against killing player characters. I have off'ed a few in my gaming life time. But killing over a stench seems petty, not to mentioned that you do have a good character in your party as well.

    So. Talk to your DM. Have him considered increasing the frequency of 'wandering monsters' - all seemingly bend on having a bite of your friend. He should tone town a bit.

    As for the pet. If you are that afraid of plague... toss a cure disease spell on the rat... should solve the problem. Use healing skills to come up with some sort of herbal cure to deal with the rat. And it is not the rat that has the disease, rather what's on them.

    OBeQuiet UWannaBe
    Last edited by earlblue; 2007-09-15 at 09:21 AM.

  19. - Top - End - #19
    Titan in the Playground
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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    Quote Originally Posted by Ranis View Post
    Being LE is actually the best alignment to be when you want to off a party member because he's being a retard...Remember, you are evil. LAWFUL evil. Kill him with the Justice Hammer and tell him to learn how to play the game without being an ass.
    Agreed wholeheartedly.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Krelon's Avatar

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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    I agree that this is a DM problem. The CN guy just does anything he wants which can be argued that it is in character somehow.

    Talk to the DM, the ability you describe should cripple the rogue most. If he doesn't know how, here are some ideas: For starters I would temprorarily give him -4 CHA and some disease that affects only him (rolled randomly each time he does something like rolling in ichor)

    If the DM doesn't care don't forget you are a cleric and you are LE. tell him IC that there are rules he is not ment to cross. Make him pay for heals. if he doesn't listen let him die..

    Never tell him to stay back! the more often he charges, the better for you.
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  21. - Top - End - #21
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Citizen Joe's Avatar

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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    Quote Originally Posted by MandibleBones View Post
    I get no experience from this combat, since I didn't participate - but why WOULD I participate? The only person in danger was the rogue who put himself there AND caused the rest of us to be unable to join him without over-exposing us to danger.
    Did you participate in the battle that gave the rogue access to the bodily fluids that are causing the retching? If so, that's part of the buffing you did on the rogue and thus you should get experience for any battle that involves the enemy retching.

    Also, the other similar effects (which are more powerful) stipulate that once you make a save against the stench, you are immune for 24 hours.

  22. - Top - End - #22
    Surgebinder in the Playground Moderator
     
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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    Fill all your level 0 spell slots with Create Water and proceed to douse him with six gallons of water four times a day, preferably at inconvenient times for him and certainly with no warning, until the stench is washed off.
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  23. - Top - End - #23
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    Well, the stench is gone - it only lasted for a few encounters anyway and one good dose of water got rid of it. The rat is likewise gone - once we'd cured the plague (the point of the adventure) it stopped being infected so I burned it while he slept.

    Also, the other similar effects (which are more powerful) stipulate that once you make a save against the stench, you are immune for 24 hours.
    That rule WAS in play, and the DC wasn't very high (like 12 or 15 or something like that). The rogue made it the first time, which is why he didn't have to do anything about it. The rest of us just kept failing.

    The Goblins DID know he was coming - they had a cunning ambush all planned that was ruined by failing their saves. The final set of goblins made their saves while we didn't and nearly wiped the party.

    And yes, "killing him" would be the entirely in character thing to do. I get that. My problem is that flat-out killing him would be a problem in character. I've tried talking, both in and out of character, to the player - and not so much. We did get him to understand in the beginning why attacking the party outright is bad, and he hasn't done that at all. He just willfully endangers the group while we're going up against encounters far past our CR (the goblins and the slug were about the weakest things we'd encountered all day - at least we're leveling fast).

    I think I'm just going to let him die the next time we're in combat. The DM doesn't pull punches, he won't save him if he's doing something stupid to get himself killed.
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  24. - Top - End - #24
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Alleine's Avatar

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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    Keep in mind that if you want him to die in battle, he seems to charge past you a lot. That means a tasty AoO for you, and a possibility of him going into a fight wounded.

    Also, see if you can't get into a town while the rogue is doing stupid things, I doubt that the villagers, much less the guards, will be too thrilled with his antics. That is, unless your DM likes it when the rogue is being a jerk.
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  25. - Top - End - #25
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: PC Interaction problems

    Well, we ARE playing Undermountain. If he makes it to Skullport, the odds are he won't live five minutes.
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