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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Halfling in the Playground
     
    dboxcar's Avatar

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    Default Way of the Avenger - Monk Subclass


    My 5e take on the 4e Avenger, a monk subclass built as a religious warrior/assassin.


    Please PEACH - balance, thoughts on the abilities I chose to use, etc
    If you use this in a game, let me know how it works!
    Last edited by dboxcar; 2018-09-30 at 02:58 PM.

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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Way of the Avenger - Monk Subclass

    I like it. Very straightforward, and fairly balanced at first blush.

    Some thoughts:
    • Oath of Enmity is already a known feature in 5e, as one of the paladin oath features. A name change will suffice.
    • Divine Boon is cool, but you'd need to prepare the spell first, then use the Channel divinity to execute. The way it's worded now it sounds like the Channel divinity is the actual preparation of the spell, then you have to use it again later (presumably after a short rest).
    • The formatting on the second page is a mess.
    • I think Ki Retribution is too strong for 2 ki points. I'd probably have it scale in some way - with Ki point (e.g., 10 damage per ki point spent) or with monk level (can prevent up damage up to 2x / 3x monk level) or something. Just ignoring an entire melee attack and then allowing you 4 attempts (with flurry of blows) to land a single strike is just too strong... and at level 11, you could ignore 5 blows a short rest. Another option is using the mechanical skeleton of the Absorb Elements spell, but opening it up to all damage, instead of specific elemental types.
    • I really like Divine Font, but it's too powerful for an always-on ability. Having that ability for a minute once per short /long rest will still be really awesome.
    Last edited by Vogie; 2018-09-19 at 09:28 AM.
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!


    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

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    dboxcar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Way of the Avenger - Monk Subclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    I like it. Very straightforward, and fairly balanced at first blush.
    Thanks! :) I've seen your homebrew around here and been really impressed, thanks for spending time to look at my little midnight-inspiration!



    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    Some thoughts:
    • Oath of Enmity is already a known feature in 5e, as one of the paladin oath features. A name change will suffice.
    The Paladin feature is actually Vow of Enmity :P Too jarring of a similarity? I was meaning for the subclasses to be themeatically related.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    • Divine Boon is cool, but you'd need to prepare the spell first, then use the Channel divinity to execute. The way it's worded now it sounds like the Channel divinity is the actual preparation of the spell, then you have to use it again later (presumably after a short rest).
    Totally. I was trying to avoid wordiness, but I'll make it more clear. Maybe I'll have it be clarified in a seperate feature...

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    • The formatting on the second page is a mess.
    Hmm, not sure what to do about that, it looks fine to me in-doc and in incognito mode :/ What in particular is going on visually, on your end?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    • I think Ki Retribution is too strong for 2 ki points. I'd probably have it scale in some way - with Ki point (e.g., 10 damage per ki point spent) or with monk level (can prevent up damage up to 2x / 3x monk level) or something. Just ignoring an entire melee attack and then allowing you 4 attempts (with flurry of blows) to land a single strike is just too strong... and at level 11, you could ignore 5 blows a short rest. Another option is using the mechanical skeleton of the Absorb Elements spell, but opening it up to all damage, instead of specific elemental types.
    I like paying ki points per the amount of damage, that way it can still theoretically negate a big attack, which is cool flavor (imo). I'll tinker around and try to figure out what makes the most sense (2 ki for -10, -5 per additional ki spent, max of 1/2 monk level ki spent is my initial impulse).

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    • I really like Divine Font, but it's too powerful for an always-on ability. Having that ability for a minute once per short /long rest will still be really awesome.
    Hmm, I'd prefer to have some sort of always-one version tbh, since I'd like it to be applicable both in and outside of combat. What are your thoughts on it happening every round you spend 3 or 4 ki points instead?
    Alternately, I'm not super attached to this ability, I just felt like it needed a general capstone that'd be applicable in lots of situations. I may try to brainstorm something different, so if you have any creativity in that department I'd love to hear any of it.
    Last edited by dboxcar; 2018-09-19 at 04:52 PM.

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    Default Re: Way of the Avenger - Monk Subclass

    Made some edits per Vogie's feedback, and changed the capstone to Supernal Wrath. I'm anxious for feedback on that and the Oaths of Enmity - do they seem over/under-powered? Not Thematically varied enough to be a cool subclass? Should Supernal Wrath only be able to target ONE stunned creature at a time?
    Last edited by dboxcar; 2018-09-19 at 05:37 PM.

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    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Way of the Avenger - Monk Subclass

    Quote Originally Posted by dboxcar View Post
    Thanks! :) I've seen your homebrew around here and been really impressed, thanks for spending time to look at my little midnight-inspiration!
    Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by dboxcar View Post
    The Paladin feature is actually Vow of Enmity :P Too jarring of a similarity? I was meaning for the subclasses to be themeatically related.
    You know what, you're absolutely right. Oath away.
    Quote Originally Posted by dboxcar View Post
    Totally. I was trying to avoid wordiness, but I'll make it more clear. Maybe I'll have it be clarified in a seperate feature...
    Much better as 2 features.
    Quote Originally Posted by dboxcar View Post
    Hmm, not sure what to do about that, it looks fine to me in-doc and in incognito mode :/ What in particular is going on visually, on your end?
    It must be the IE that I'm forced to use at work - it looked fine on Chrome last night. My bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by dboxcar View Post
    Hmm, I'd prefer to have some sort of always-one version tbh, since I'd like it to be applicable both in and outside of combat. What are your thoughts on it happening every round you spend 3 or 4 ki points instead?
    Alternately, I'm not super attached to this ability, I just felt like it needed a general capstone that'd be applicable in lots of situations. I may try to brainstorm something different, so if you have any creativity in that department I'd love to hear any of it.
    I mean, monks are getting all of their ki points back each short rest, and their capstone gives them 4 when they roll initiative.

    Quote Originally Posted by dboxcar View Post
    changed the capstone to Supernal Wrath. I'm anxious for feedback on that and the Oaths of Enmity - do they seem over/under-powered? Not Thematically varied enough to be a cool subclass? Should Supernal Wrath only be able to target ONE stunned creature at a time?
    The oaths seem fine, although it's odd that Branding Smite is a 2nd level spell and costs the same amount of ki. I wouldn't know if it's broken or not without playtesting.

    Supernal Wrath would probably be better if you have it written out. It's a bit odd thing to use at-will (unless they really hate, say, rats, and are never, ever around level 0 commoners), and the ability to Deafen or Blind someone who is already stunned seems odd. Unless you're looking for long-term stunning (?). Maybe right a "Divine Strike" that only is available to stunned targets.

    What is it specifically you want out of the capstone for the subclass, thematically? The first capstone was more of a flow-based thing, this one is more of an execute.
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!


    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

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    Default Re: Way of the Avenger - Monk Subclass

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    The oaths seem fine, although it's odd that Branding Smite is a 2nd level spell and costs the same amount of ki. I wouldn't know if it's broken or not without playtesting.
    Yeah, I puzzled on this for a while, before deciding that I should think about it in terms of balance, rather than spell level. Branding Smite adds 2d6 damage and a minor effect on one attack, while Divine Favor and Hunter's Mark each add 1d4/1d6 damage to every attack, whihc is quite a bit more after a few rounds. Then I compared that to spending a bonus action to make a single unarmed strike and 1 ki to make a second, and figured that each spell was a minor upgrade that woundn't be the be-all, end-all option.

    As a comparison, Way of the Shadows monks pay 2 ki to activate 2nd-level spells which are: probably less good in direct combat than the 1st-level Divine Favor and Hunter's Mark -- but on the other hand much better than Branding Smite (which is a terrible 2nd-level spell imo).


    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    What is it specifically you want out of the capstone for the subclass, thematically? The first capstone was more of a flow-based thing, this one [Supernal Wrath] is more of an execute.
    I'm partial to both concepts, really. I like the idea of the avenger becoming a font of divine power in some way, kind of like the Oath of the Ancients and Oath of Vengence paladins do, and I also want to reinforce their theme as eliminators of the enemies of their gods. May tinker around with a v3 that combines those themes into one big multi-part ability.

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    Default Re: Way of the Avenger - Monk Subclass

    Edited Supernal Wrath to be very similar to the paladin capstones - one minute of Super-Saiyan, combining the flow thing with a sort of stunning smite idea.

    Also edited Oaths of Enmity to provide a better monk weapon and narrow the spell benefits to only apply to monk weapon attacks, to keep the ability from getting out of hand.

    Would Oaths of Enmity be too powerful if the spell only cost 1 ki point instead of 2?
    Last edited by dboxcar; 2018-09-30 at 11:26 AM.

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