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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    Welcome back to the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge E6 Appetizer Edition! This one might be challenging in a few ways, but I trust us all to be mature adults if any rules disputes arise.

    The form of this challenge is to take a particular D&D 3.5 base class (our "secret ingredient," or SI) and turn it into a functional E6 build, which must feature the SI as heavily as possible. (The only hard rule about this is that you must take at least one level in the SI, though judges are encouraged to look favorably on builds that take all or almost all of their levels in said SI.) Your final build submission should consist of your 6 regular levels and your first 10 epic bonus feats, though providing a snapshot at earlier points through the progression is heartily encouraged. Entries are to be PM'd to the Chair (that would be me!), and they will be posted anonymously; our volunteer judges will then grade each build on a [b]1-5 point scale in four categories: Originality, Power, Elegance, and Use of the Secret Ingredient. The three builds with the highest scores will be awarded medals, with the Honorable Mention award going to the non-medaling build that the Chair likes best and/or that receives the most votes for HM in this thread. (HM may not always be awarded, particularly if the number of builds is very small.) And then we all have cake!*

    *Note: You must provide your own cake.

    This is basically like the regular Iron Chef, and let's be brutally honest with ourselves here: this isn't a gargantuan community, and we basically all know what we're talking about at this point. Make the builds, send 'em in, post some scores, and have fun. If you've got questions, lemme know. Still, let's lay out a few rules!
    • Cooking Time: Builds must be submitted via PM to the Chair by 4:59 PM GMT - 8 on Friday, Oct 12, 2018 (12:59 AM GMT on Saturday, Oct 13). The reveal shall be on the first evening the Chair has free following the cooking deadline, which is hoped to be that evening or the immediately subsequent one. Judging is then expected (*cough*) to take no more than two weeks, so we'll put the judging deadline at approximately two weeks after that, with adjustments as necessary. (You can do the math yourselves; I don't want to put two dates here and confuse people.) Notice that this is slightly earlier in the day than previous deadlines; the goal is to have the deadline be around the time the Chair gets off of work on that particular day, thereby allowing him to post the builds without having to stay up super late or wait until the next day.
    • Kitchen: Let's break this one down a bit.

      Spoiler: Let's talk about sources
      Show
      • ALLOWED: Almost all D&D 3.5 material published by WotC: Core, Completes, monster books, Races Of books, alternate power source books (Expanded Psionics Handbook, Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Battle, Tome of Magic, etc.), Spell Compendium, Book of Exalted Deeds, Book of Vile Darkness, Eberron material, Forgotten Realms material, and other WotC-published 3.5 material. (This list is NOT exhaustive and there are many other legal books that I did not mention by name!)
      • ALLOWED: Material from the 3.5 archives of the Wizards of the Coast website (including, but not limited to, the Mind's Eye articles). If you use it, link it.
      • ALLOWED: Official errata from WotC. If you're relying on this in a material fashion, it's a good idea to link it and to discuss it.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Unofficial errata, including "class fixes" (regardless of the source, including from the original author if not published in a WotC book) or fan-created content.
      • ALLOWED: Unupdated WotC-published 3.0 material (e.g., Sword and Fist, Masters of the Wild, etc.) except for 3.0 psionics. No 3.0 psionics allowed. If you are using 3.0 material, use the general-purpose skill updates (Wilderness Lore becomes Survival, Innuendo becomes Bluff, etc.) and the general-purpose rules updates (spells with a casting time of "1 action" become "1 standard action," etc.) when appropriate.
      • NOT ALLOWED: 3.0 material for which a direct 3.5 update exists. Use the updated material instead.
      • ALLOWED: Dragon Compendium and its errata.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Content from Dragon Magazine and/or Dungeon Magazine unless said content appears in an otherwise allowed source.
      • ALLOWED: Oriental Adventures, including the 3.5 update to Oriental Adventures from Dragon Magazine #318. This is a specific exception to the "no Dragon" rule!
      • NOT ALLOWED: Pathfinder content, regardless of whether it is "D&D 3.5 OGL" or not. If it didn't come from WotC, we don't want it.
      • ALLOWED: From Unearthed Arcana: racial paragon classes, alternate class features/variant classes, spelltouched feats, and variant races. (Traits and flaws are technically legal, but traits warrant a -0.5 point penalty in Elegance, and flaws warrant a -1 penalty in Elegance.)
      • NOT ALLOWED: Other Unearthed Arcana content, including (but not limited to) bloodlines, LA buyoff, fractional BAB/saves, alternate casting systems, alternate skill systems, item familiars, prestigious character classes, generic classes, gestalt, etc. When you're wondering if UA content is allowed, err on the side of caution and don't mess around with it.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Leadership, regardless of source. Game elements functionally equivalent to Leadership (including, but not limited to, Dragon Cohort, Undead Leadership, and Thrallherd) are similarly banned. (Familiars, Improved Familiar, animal companions, Wild Cohort, psicrystals, elemental envoys, and similar game elements are allowed, and they are not considered to be "Leadership." If the difference isn't obvious, feel free to contact the Chair with specific questions.)
      • NOT ALLOWED: Third-party content, homebrew, or other non-WotC content.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook. Just because you're "epic" in E6 after 6th level doesn't mean that you're that kind of epic.
      • NOT ALLOWED: Any race or template with a level adjustment other than +0. (Or any other source of LA other than a race or template, if any such things exist.)
      • NOT ALLOWED: For our judges: penalizing solely based on legal sources used, regardless of whether those sources are plentiful, sparse, common, obscure, or something in between. If the material is legal, then it doesn't matter how many or how few books it came out of.
      • ALLOWED: Also for our judges: penalizing for using a source (other than material in Core; don't be vindictive about genuinely obvious stuff) that isn't listed in the build writeup. The chef may choose to present the sources in-line with the text, in a consolidated source list, or somewhere else, but if the source is listed (and is otherwise legal), it counts. If the source is not listed, you may choose to penalize for that.

      If you have questions about anything in this section (or hell, in this ruleset), feel free to ask the Chair.

    • Character Creation: 32 point buy is assumed. For the purposes of this contest, Level Adjustment greater than +0 is banned. (This may be revised at a later point, but I don't feel that the E6 LA rules are conducive to fun in the context of this contest.) No more than two entries per chef per contest, please; if you submit two builds and somehow are so overcome with inspiration for a third that you can't help yourself, PM me and tell me which two you care about the most.
    • Speculation: Please do not post any form of speculation before the reveal. Just don't do it, guys. It's not cool. This means NOT posting any of the following or anything substantially similar: what you think is going to be common, significant elements of your planned build or of other potential builds, or anything else that could directly influence someone else's build choices for good or for ill. (It's acceptable to ask for rules clarifications as appropriate, but try to avoid tipping your hand too much.) Speculation is bad because it can discourage people from posting builds and can also "taint the judging pool" when it comes to Originality, so please just try to be aware of how other people might react to your speculation.
    • E6: Here's how E6 works for the purposes of this contest. Build your character normally for the first six levels. After you reach level 6, you stop gaining levels and start gaining bonus feats every time you would gain 5,000 XP. Since we aren't actually tracking XP, you'll basically list your first ten epic bonus feats in the order that you take them, and we think of them as being kind of like levels. We will not use the LA-equals-reduced-point-buy rules, instead preferring to just ban races with LA, at least for now. We will not use the "capstone feats"; all feats that you take must be normal legal 3.5 feats, not homebrew E6 ones. You may not use the Epic feats from the Epic Level Handbook, though if for some reason there are non-Epic feats from the ELH that you qualify for, you may take those. (I don't think there are any, but I'm sure someone will prove me wrong.) It is up to the discretion of each judge whether this is a "hard E6" (magic above 3rd level spells is simply beyond mortal reach, items that have a listed CL above 6th are just plain not available, etc.) or a "soft E6" (if you can somehow get the magic on your character, it's yours, regardless of level), though I honestly don't expect it to come up. Don't go crazy with making assumptions about items and we probably won't have to find out.
    • Presentation: Please use the table found below in the spoiler. List your epic bonus feats (in clear order) after the table. If you find a clever way of formatting that that isn't annoying and that doesn't break anything, have fun; if it's portable, I may steal it for the next round. When sending your build or any disputes to the Chair, clearly include your build's name in the subject of the PM, and please present your build exactly as you want the Chair to copy and paste it into the thread.
      If you're using a picture, cite the source and follow any relevant citation rules. Because we have had issues with this in the past, when listing your skills, please make it very clear how many ranks you have at each level. There are multiple ways to do this and we do not wish to cramp anyone's individual style by dictating exactly how this must look, but make sure that somewhere in your entry there's an explanation of how many actual skill ranks you have. It's still fine to list total skill bonuses, if that's your style, but don't only list bonuses; make sure that there is a clear listing somewhere of your ranks alone.
      Spoiler
      Show
      Level Class Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Skills Feats Class Features
      1st New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      2nd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      3rd New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      4th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      5th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      6th New Class Level +x +x +x +x Skills Feats New Class Abilities
      Code for the table:
      Spoiler
      Show
      [table="class: head alt1 alt2"]
      [tr]
      [th][B]Level[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Class[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Base Attack Bonus[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Fort Save[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Ref Save[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Will Save[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Skills[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Feats[/B][/th]
      [th][B]Class Features[/B][/th]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]1st[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]2nd[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]3rd[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]4th[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]5th[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr]
      [tr]
      [td]6th[/td]
      [td]New Class Level[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]+x[/td]
      [td]Skills[/td]
      [td]Feats[/td]
      [td]New Class Abilities[/td]
      [/tr][/table]

    • Contest houserules: Nearly the same as the main contest's rules here: all creatures are proficient with natural weapons they have or may acquire, bonus feats that are explicitly granted without meeting prereqs are usable even without those prereqs, and feats that affect which skills are class skills for you and/or how you spend your skill points (Able Learner, Martial Study, Truename Training, Apprentice, etc.) apply immediately at the level at which you take them (even though you normally spend skill points before taking a feat).
    • Judging guidelines: The minimum score in a category is 1, and the maximum is 5. Judges are expected to be fair, consistent, and open-minded, and they are expected to make a good-faith effort to engage with any reasonable disputes that arise, especially when RAW is in question. That said, contestants are asked to not dispute more than necessary; let's do everything in good faith and really only dispute when a judge is being inconsistent, being unfair, or is otherwise grossly misinterpreting a build.
      Judges may not penalize Originality solely because a build is a tribute or homage to an existing creative work (in or out of D&D canon; note that this is not the same thing as penalizing Originality for using well-known optimization tactics), nor may judges penalize based solely on sources used (whether those sources are plentiful, sparse, common, obscure, or something in between, you should judge the build elements and how they work together rather than what book or what books they came out of, as long as those books are legal for this contest and are cited in the entry).
      As with the main contest, we will follow the "One Mistake, One Penalty" guideline, and it is very important that the judges adhere to it. I'm going to directly copy and paste this from the main thread, and hopefully the original author won't mind too much:
      Spoiler
      Show
      Judges are only allowed to penalise once for a given mistake. If someone messes up their skills and doesn't qualify for a PrC, ding them as hard as you like. Once. In one category. You don't then get to declare that because they didn't qualify for that PrC, they don't get those levels, and thus don't qualify for anything else. If Ranger is a common ingredient, ding them for Originality. Once. Don't also take off points for Two-Weapon-Fighting being a common ingredient.

      Non-exhaustive list of examples:

      Skills
      Allowed:
      • Giving a penalty for miscalculating the number of skill points gained
      • Giving a penalty for not having enough ranks to meet a prerequisite
      • Increasing the harshness of a skill miscalculation penalty if it affects critical skills including prereqs


      Not allowed:
      • Giving separate penalties for miscalculating skill points and for non-qualification where the non-qualification is solely caused by the miscalculation

      Prereqs
      Allowed:
      • Giving a penalty for not meeting prereqs
      • Scaling the penalty depending on how important the item that the build failed to qualify for is
      • Giving minimum score in UotSI for not qualifying for the SI
      • Not giving credit for (note: not the same as penalising for) tactics using feats or classes other than the SI that were not qualified for (but see below)


      Not Allowed:
      • "Cascading" failures to qualify - declaring that because a build doesn't qualify for a feat, for example, it also doesn't qualify for anything using that feat as a prereq
      • Treating a build as having fewer levels than it does because of FtQ for classes

      Other general things that are no longer allowed:
      • Penalising because someone has chosen to build a tribute to an existing creative work
      • Deciding that a backstory has not met a fluff prerequisite well enough, or because its method of meeting it is "unrealistic". You may penalise if a fluff prereq is not addressed at all, but not for how well it is addressed.


      Note that these are protections, not licenses. Deliberately taking a feat that you know you don't qualify for hoping to just suck up the judging penalty for a feat that you couldn't normally take is not okay, and may lead to your build being disqualified.

    • Other bits and bobs: If there's something major and relevant I haven't mentioned, assume that the way I handle it will probably be the same as the main contest unless stated otherwise or unless doing so would be an obviously absurd result. If you've got questions, I'll give you answers.



    This round's secret ingredient:
    The FACTOTUM, from Dungeonscape!

    Allez Optimizer!


    The Builds:

    Name Race/Alignment Stub Score/Rank Chef
    Bastiat Fellpaw NE Cat Hengeyokai Factotum 3 / Barbarian 2 / Psion 1 14/Silver RaiKirah
    Curse-mopolitan Dan ? Human Factotum 5 / Cleric 1 13.5/Bronze daremetoidareyo
    PFC Wallis CN Human Factotum 5 / Totemist 1 17/Gold Randuir


    Last edited by Zaq; 2018-10-28 at 05:23 PM.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    A few potentially-relevant rulings in advance:

    • Inspiration resets to your normal amount at the start of a new encounter. (Please don't spend the bulk of your effort on splitting hairs trying to define when an encounter starts. Everyone just be reasonable, please.) It doesn't stack up arbitrarily high.
    • Your first Font of Inspiration is worth 1. Your second is worth 2, for a total of 3 from feats. Your third is worth 3, for a total of 6 from feats. Etc. It's added to your usual amount (so it does, in fact, reset every encounter rather than being a one-off benefit.)
    • You can only invoke Cunning Strike once per attack roll.


    If anyone has a major problem with these rulings, now's the time to have that discussion. We can talk about it if you like. But I recognize in advance that there's some gray areas to the Factotum, so we may as well head this off at the pass to the extent that we can.

    This isn't a "10-point Originality" round, but I still feel like Originality is going to be where medals are won and lost this time. Have fun, folks!

    Oh, and just if I haven't said it enough, I'm still crazy busy with school, so there may be some posting delays here and there. I've just gotta get used to this sort of thing again.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    Taking a pass on this one. Just marking the thread so I can watch the fun.
    Currently Playing:
    Our tables 1st Tome of Battle game

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    DeTess's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    I've got one idea, but it's rather similar to a build I did a couple of comps back. I'll see if I can come up with something different that'll work.
    Jasnah avatar by Zea Mays

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Orc in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    I've never actually delved into the Factotum. I'll have to ponder and get back to you.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    I think that I would have more fun talking about e6 factotum than actually building one. Problem is, it would be chock full of speculation. Grrrr

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Troll in the Playground
     
    WhamBamSam's Avatar

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    This is another of those classes that'd be really cool in E8, but is significantly less interesting in E6. Well, I'll give it a shot.

    Iron Chef Medals
    Spoiler
    Show
    Sir Driscoll Conia - Silver - IC L

    Nick Snarespan - Gold - IC LIII

    Lucy "Legs" Silvertail - Bronze - IC LXVIII

    Bolfarg of Knoss - Gold - IC LXXVII

    Ivarr Deathborn - Bronze - IC LXXVII

    Ahmtel - Silver - IC LXXVIII

    Tocke of Nessus - Gold - IC LXXIX

    The Blessed Third - Silver - IC LXXXI

    Galahad Galapagos - Gold - IC LXXXIV

    Sai-don, Knight of the Tide - Bronze - IC LXXXIV

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    Quote Originally Posted by daremetoidareyo View Post
    I think that I would have more fun talking about e6 factotum than actually building one. Problem is, it would be chock full of speculation. Grrrr
    Think you might consider judging if you canít find a clever exploit? (I mean, Iíd be fairly surprised if you didnít have an exploit, but such things happen from time to time.)

    I mean, Iím noticing a fairly tepid response overall. Is this one too bland, or do we just need some thinking time?
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Troll in the Playground
     
    RogueGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    Think you might consider judging if you canít find a clever exploit? (I mean, Iíd be fairly surprised if you didnít have an exploit, but such things happen from time to time.)

    I mean, Iím noticing a fairly tepid response overall. Is this one too bland, or do we just need some thinking time?
    I mean, i know one exploit, but it's definitely not a judge-pleaser.

    I'd consider judging, but I'd rather see the number and complexity of entries before committing to be a judge.

  10. - Top - End - #10
    Nerdomancer in the Playground Moderator
     
    DruidGuy

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    as promised, in to judge.. now to go read up on it :p

    quick thoughts on how i intend to judge:

    Originality: do you use the same old same old, or are you bringing something relatively new or unique to this round. did you build what i would've done, or something different? I don't necessarily compare different builds, but if 3 entries all have the same shtick, all 3 will get a ding in this field.

    Power: How well does your build do what it says it should do? Are you a 1 trick pony, or can you fill multiple roles (especially important for this round!)? You don't have to be the star, and iterative attacks are off the board with this ingredient, but can you function enough with what you got?

    Elegance: This for me is the biggest category, the legality of your build, and how things work together. Are you presenting multiple dips, do your skill points work, and do you take things to conclusion? Do you meet pre-reqs for everything? Do things work without bending over backwards and some serious RAWrey? I also tend to give a little weight to the FLUFF side of each class you're using, the theme of the build is just as important as the mechanics of it.

    Use of SI: I don't judge based on whether you took the full 6 ranks, but what you did w/ the ranks you took. If your build can swap out any other class for the Factotum ranks you took and do the same thing or better, expect a lower score here.

    I tend to use the "eyeball" measure, rather than have a table of .25 increments of bonus's and penalties.

    AND CITE YOUR SOURCES!
    Last edited by jdizzlean; 2018-09-23 at 10:36 PM.
    Spoiler: Medals & Current Characters
    Show

    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    More sources, more choices, more power. Welcome to D&D.
    The Mod Life Crisis If you need me to address a thread as a Moderator, please include a link

  11. - Top - End - #11
    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    So seriously folks, is this too bland and/or too difficult an ingredient? I usually get at least a couple people expressing a bit more interest than we've seen so far, and I've had the thread up for a whole weekend now, so there's been a chance to see it. No offense to anyone who's posted here, but I'm really not seeing much enthusiasm for the Factotum. I don't want a repeat of the Shugenja round, after allóenthusiasm is the contest's lifeblood! I was expecting the initial response to be "huh, what's so hard about cooking with Factotum?" and then a later response of "wow, that turned out weirder than I expected, but I got something in" instead of an immediate, resounding "meh."

    I'm willing to take at least a straw poll here: who actually wants to cook with Factotum, and who wants to scrap it in favor of something else? If possible, if you're voting against Factotum, an indication of what sorts of ingredients would trigger more enthusiasm would be appreciated.

    I do have a short list of potential replacements, but I don't think I want to post it just yet, because I don't want to sway the vote too much. All I really want is a lively and interested competition.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

    Queer pride isn't limited to one month!

  12. - Top - End - #12
    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    I've only ever submitted once, but I take a look at each ingredient to see what inspires me. I keep looking at Factotum, and I just can't find any...points of inspiration.

  13. - Top - End - #13
    Halfling in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    Factotum is one of my favorite classes, and some of my favorite characters have taken 1-4 level dips, but I've always used it for higher level builds. It will be interesting using it in a 6 level build.

  14. - Top - End - #14
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    I'm starting to consider some ideas that are less obvious, but it does leave me with some questions about how some of the factotums abilities interact with prerequisites. Can a factotum with cunning strike qualify for feats/PRC's/whatever that requires +1d6 of sneak attack? Can a factotum with Opportunisitc piety qualify for things requiring turn undead?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    Quote Originally Posted by Randuir View Post
    I'm starting to consider some ideas that are less obvious, but it does leave me with some questions about how some of the factotums abilities interact with prerequisites. Can a factotum with cunning strike qualify for feats/PRC's/whatever that requires +1d6 of sneak attack? Can a factotum with Opportunisitc piety qualify for things requiring turn undead?
    This is part of my confusion. The Factotum seems interesting, and seems good at what it does, but I'm having a hard time seeing how to optimize ot, rather than using it as a dip for various obvious reasons, and even then it seems to lend itself to an ECL20 build more readily.

    Another aspect of my reticence is due to being in the midst of finalizing my Junkyard Wars and Gamewarper's builds in. I would like to dive into this, because I suspect it will be interesting, though I'm going to need a few more days before I know if I have an idea that's worth following up. Probably on board to judge if not.

    In short, I'm interested in the class, just haven't really had an opportunity to start getting ideas, and the versatility of the class makes specialization somewhat daunting.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    ...
    I'm willing to take at least a straw poll here: who actually wants to cook with Factotum, and who wants to scrap it in favor of something else? If possible, if you're voting against Factotum, an indication of what sorts of ingredients would trigger more enthusiasm would be appreciated...
    I say keep it. I've always liked the Factotum class.

    I think the issue, at least for me, is that Factotum does a lot of little things without really excelling at any of them. (It's actually the point of the Factotum, really). It makes it a bit difficult to optimize something that way.
    And, with that, there are a few handbooks and well-known 'tricks' for this class. Which makes Originality a more difficult thing to face here.

    I think those two issues make the Factotum an interesting challenge. A different challenge, maybe, than people are used to with these contests, which could be the root of the level of expressed interest (or lack thereof). Don't shy away from offering such a challenge, Zaq.

    I, for one, have an inkling of an idea forming. If life allows me time to play, I intend to enter a build.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    So a Factotum, an Aristocrat, and a Marshal walk into an inn ....

    I think a lot of peoples problem is that it not really good at anything, with cheese okay, you might be able to do something interesting. Without cheese? And E6? Not so much. I know for sure that no one in my group will even consider playing one, and we ain't optimizers by any stretch.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    Alrighty, I think I've got an idea I want to pursue. We'll see how it pans out!

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    Quote Originally Posted by lylsyly View Post
    So a Factotum, an Aristocrat, and a Marshal walk into an inn ....

    I think a lot of peoples problem is that it not really good at anything, with cheese okay, you might be able to do something interesting. Without cheese? And E6? Not so much. I know for sure that no one in my group will even consider playing one, and we ain't optimizers by any stretch.
    I mean, it's not like all of our gold medalists have been dairy-free.
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    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    It took a bit of thinking, but inspiration has finally struck. It's not a particularly serious build, but I'm in to cook.
    Last edited by DeTess; 2018-09-26 at 03:00 AM.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaq View Post
    I mean, it's not like all of our gold medalists have been dairy-free.
    Of course, heck, I didn't even come close. How many times did I take hidden talent? That in itself is cheesy.

    Problem is it's a great class for a quick dip but that is about it.

    Want to start a pool on just how many levels everyone takes?
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    Quote Originally Posted by lylsyly View Post

    Problem is it's a great class for a quick dip but that is about it.

    Want to start a pool on just how many levels everyone takes?


    I know where I would cut off, just not sure what i'd do w/ the rest (if any) levels that would be there. I do have 2 immediate ways i would run this, time will tell if one of the entrants does either of those :)
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    Any progress, gentlefolk?
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    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    I've come up with a few ideas, but none of them ended up working out. I'm still working on it.

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    My idea hasn't fallen apart yet. So far so good!

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    New job is seriously restricting my time these days but I have an idea that I think is neat, if I get the time to put it together into an entry...
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    I'm still on track. Once I figured out what I wanted to do, this one pretty much wrote itself.
    Last edited by DeTess; 2018-09-29 at 10:02 AM.
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    I had no ideas for this one, but I'll try to find the time to read and judge everyone who did find the time and inspiration!

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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    Just found this competition, have a vague idea for it but can't promise anything.


    Currently Recruiting: Nothing currently. Maybe come start one?

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    Firbolg in the Playground
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    Default Re: Iron Chef Optimization Challenge: E6 Appetizer Edition (Round XII)

    Under 72 hours remain. I have no entries submitted to me yet. Is there going to be a big final push this weekend, or do we need to come up with an easier ingredient and push out the deadline a week? Be honest with me, folks. As much as I'd love to get a bunch of dishes over the next day or two and heartily encourage doing so if you're still game, an up-front and honest answer that you're not cooking this round is preferable to a declaration of entry that isn't going to pan out. (I mean, I'm sympathetic and know what it's like to run out of time or out of steam, but I'm perhaps a little paranoid about having a boring entry with insufficient dishes.)
    Last edited by Zaq; 2018-10-05 at 09:33 PM.
    In the Beginning Was the Word, and the Word Was Suck: A Guide to Truenamers

    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Roc View Post
    Gentlefolk, learn from Zaq's example, and his suffering. Remember, seven out of eleven players who use truenamer lose their ability to taste ice cream.
    Come join the Iron Chef Optimization Challenge in the Playground E6 Appetizer Edition! We're currently judging for round 24. Everyone is welcome!

    My compiled Iron Chef stuff!

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