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  1. - Top - End - #1021
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    HalflingRogueGuy

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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by John Cribati View Post
    *I have the distinct feeling that I'm missing several accent marks here
    I wish you were merely missing accent marks. It would be trivialy excused with your non-french keyboard.
    Je ne sais quoi.
    Yes, I am slightly egomaniac. Why didn't you ask?

    Free haiku !
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    I wish you could be


    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari
    Also this isn’t D&D, flaming the troll doesn’t help either.

  2. - Top - End - #1022
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    It's not amongst my favorite comics, but I do enjoy when it updates.

  3. - Top - End - #1023
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    it lost me when the axe broke: up till then it was the GAP trying to get home.

    Base premise of the comic: The world through their eyes.

    There was plenty space for story without the threat of destroying the world.
    Now the main threat is so big that anything „the world“ throws at them in the shape of normal prejudice related stuff becomes just a minor bump in the road, if it happens at all from now on.

    They have become a normal adventuring party trying to save the world. Which is so standard I don’t have to read this comic.
    * my emphasis

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  4. - Top - End - #1024
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Am I missing something or wasn't the question: "What is the next group of protagonists you think we'll see?", and not about how much (or little) we enjoy the comic?

    Personally I think it has been a really long time since we saw DH, so that could be pretty good to get back to, but I have zero knowledge about what is good timing.
    Also I wonder if the whole "I must have sex" is a one-off joke (which I doubt, because it didn't seem like a joke to me) or if it will be played off in a somewhat funny, yet horrifying, manner. So I guess I wouldn't mind seeing more of Forgath either.
    To me it seems like the majority of the plot is driven by the GAP, and since I started following this story to see their journey home and how epic they would become, I also wouldn't mind seeing the Goblins again, though the previous time we saw them, it felt rather sad with all the horror chief had been exposed to. Though I guess that is how it was meant to feel.

  5. - Top - End - #1025
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by BaronOfHell View Post
    Am I missing something or wasn't the question: "What is the next group of protagonists you think we'll see?", and not about how much (or little) we enjoy the comic?
    What you missed was probably this.

  6. - Top - End - #1026
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    What you missed was probably this.
    No I saw it, and at first I only read the first part, because to me it read like: "I don't care, I think this comic is bad, and here is why", which can be an answer to any question and therefore a derailment from the original question.

    While I find it a little rude, I have probably misjudged the reply (even though I feel my first impression wasn't changed from reading it fully, which I had done before my previous post), and since I also doubt the original question is of any importance to Traab, then I don't think any of those concerns matter, what surprised me was the shift in discussion no matter the quality of the reply. Hence my previous post.

  7. - Top - End - #1027
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by BaronOfHell View Post
    what surprised me was the shift in discussion no matter the quality of the reply. Hence my previous post.
    We're over a thousand posts into the seventeenth thread discussing a comic where we're basically posting our reactions and occasional speculation. There's no real point to what we're doing, so there are no real rules. The conversation wanders to whatever morsel happens to look appetizing. We could speculate on the next group of protagonists we'll see, but apparently that invitation-to-speculate didn't strike a chord. Vinyaan's aside about being surprised to realize that they didn't care (and the implication of the strip having lost them) for some reason did.

    I guess we could try to entertain that other point, and see if it gains traction. My guess is that the next one will be team Forgath, as that's the one of three groups (Forgath&co, Goblins, MM/Kin) that seem to ever show up any more we've visited least recently.

  8. - Top - End - #1028
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    My guess is she also has an inkling of a belief that the two can "See" each-other. As the last thing she sees of him is his bloody hand, the exact same spot where she last felt pain. Pain she brushed off as a Spider, but maybe now realizes was more then that.
    I didn't catch that change in the look in her eyes upon seeing that. That does seem to explain a lot. Thanks!

    ---

    In general, I still like this comic, but the slow update schedule and some of the strange things (like Kore leaving successfully) do make it pale a bit to me. But the worldbuilding and characters are still interesting to me. I'd like to find out what Forgath is now, and how this thing with Kore and the axe resolve, etc. I think I most enjoy the antics of MinMax and the now-Teller (forgot his real name), but MinMax fumbling at his relationship with Kin is also rather amusing. (Was the real name Fumbles?)

    ---

    Is Dies Horribly still a PC team somewhere off doing something? I forget when we last saw him and Saves a Fox. Did we see what happened after he got separated from the "might destroy the world" corrupted blood-metal-thing?
    Last edited by JeenLeen; 2020-03-12 at 01:25 PM.

  9. - Top - End - #1029
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by JeenLeen View Post
    I didn't catch that change in the look in her eyes upon seeing that. That does seem to explain a lot. Thanks!

    ---

    In general, I still like this comic, but the slow update schedule and some of the strange things (like Kore leaving successfully) do make it pale a bit to me. But the worldbuilding and characters are still interesting to me. I'd like to find out what Forgath is now, and how this thing with Kore and the axe resolve, etc. I think I most enjoy the antics of MinMax and the now-Teller (forgot his real name), but MinMax fumbling at his relationship with Kin is also rather amusing. (Was the real name Fumbles?)

    ---

    Is Dies Horribly still a PC team somewhere off doing something? I forget when we last saw him and Saves a Fox. Did we see what happened after he got separated from the "might destroy the world" corrupted blood-metal-thing?
    Dies Horribly is kind of odd as he doesnt have a class. I think saves a fox is a warrior but she only did that to further spite her fate so i dunno if you can consider him part of a pc team. And no, we have no idea what happened to him or the rest after klik died and the monster klik ran off to devour the three loser squad.
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  10. - Top - End - #1030
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    Agi Hammerthief's Avatar

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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    Dies Horribly is kind of odd as he doesnt have a class. I think saves a fox is a warrior but she only did that to further spite her fate so i dunno if you can consider him part of a pc team. And no, we have no idea what happened to him or the rest after klik died and the monster klik ran off to devour the three loser squad.
    he was never part of the GAP

    wake me up if he collected Klik‘s dust for sentimental reasons, meets the other kliks and gets him resurrected.

    I suspect he‘ll not keep the dust, meet the other kliks, find out he could have resurrected his Klick and jump off a cliff or something.
    * my emphasis

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    Things that don't kill me make me strong
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  11. - Top - End - #1031
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Agi Hammerthief View Post
    he was never part of the GAP

    wake me up if he collected Klik‘s dust for sentimental reasons, meets the other kliks and gets him resurrected.

    I suspect he‘ll not keep the dust, meet the other kliks, find out he could have resurrected his Klick and jump off a cliff or something.
    He will be impaled in the gut on a tree branch and die horribly, screaming over the course of 6 hours and 15 comics where his howls of agony echo in the background. Then we switch back to forgath and crew tricking the dumb guy into saying what! It'll be hilarious!
    "Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
    Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."

    Quote Originally Posted by Nerd-o-rama View Post
    Traab is yelling everything that I'm thinking already.
    "If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."

  12. - Top - End - #1032
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    Agi Hammerthief's Avatar

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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    He will be impaled in the gut on a tree branch and die horribly, screaming over the course of 6 hours and 15 comics where his howls of agony echo in the background. Then we switch back to forgath and crew tricking the dumb guy into saying what! It'll be hilarious!
    ok, you can wake me up for that too
    * my emphasis

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    Things that don't kill me make me strong
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  13. - Top - End - #1033
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    I still care. I want to see if Eli can pull off a good ending. It might help that this was never one of my top-tier webcomics. The premise was fine but hardly new over a dozen years ago ("They're traditional D&D monsters, but they're the protagonists!"), the primary villain was week in premise, and the personalities of the main cast never followed along when the stakes went from miniscule to fate-of-the-world. Lower expectations means I'm not overly upset that the story hasn't stayed that interesting (the update schedule, on the other hand...). It isn't like Sluggy Freelance where I used to really care about the characters and what happened to them, and then infinite bloat and delay and by the time the strip was supposedly going to end*, I just didn't care one way or the other.
    *yes, I know, Pete found a new passion for the thing and is keeping it going, more power to him, hope he finds an audience for it.
    Sluggy did a nice clean-up after Oasis was dealt with. I am enjoying it a lot more, especially because I understand what's going on. It's not as good as 1997, but it's better than many other years (and luckily it isn't Oceans Unmoving).

    About Goblins, the return of Kin could be very good news for the comic. MM hasn't had a quest since the bridge (he was supposed to kill the Goblins, but, instead, he joined them, and he likely has no idea of how to find and kill Kore). Kin could give him one.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  14. - Top - End - #1034
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    There is a lot I like about the comic (and Elli's pretty awesome too, which helps), I do think it's slowish sometimes but like most webcomics, it's best read as binges and not as it updates. That's the way it works so it's not something I'm particularly annoyed about.

  15. - Top - End - #1035
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    I enjoy the comic. Here are my recent thoughts about it.

    The goblins have a great deal of agency, particularly the GAP. What I mean by this is that their plot developments are mostly driven by their own decisions, good or bad, from Complains using the chest items to Fumbles returning the doll to Ears going after the axe alone to Complains strapping on the Shield of Wonder to Fumbles turning back at the bridge. On the other hand, the others, particularly Minmax, have far less agency, and are largely responding to events dictated by others -- here we have the entire Maze of Many plot, which is all in reaction to a villain du jour. But despite the goblins driving the plot far more by their own decisions, when reading the comic, it subjectively feels like the story of Minmax and Kin, with their nonhuman buddies tagging along.

    Here's why I think that might be. There's something genuinely delightful that trans people do, myself included: write stories that are symbolic representations of one's struggle with gender identity, years or even decades before coming to realize that identity. When I was a teenager, more than twenty years before admitting to myself I was trans, I worked feverishly on a fantasy series whose central twist was that, gasp, the main character is female and doesn't know it. (Kinda like that one Oz book.) So here, in Goblins, we have Minmax as a representation of masculinity, strong and well-meaning but incredibly stupid, falling in love with Kin as a representation of femininity, intelligent and beautiful but alien and incomprehensible... and they would have already worked things out if the male side wasn't so reliably idiotic. Their romance seems to at once be a reconciliation of gender identities. I'm curious to see whether their future plot supports this interpretation.

    Even if you leave that part aside, the bodies of the Goblins cast sure do change a lot. Kin loses the lower half of her body and gets a magical replacement. Dies loses an arm, gets a new arm, loses an arm, gets a new arm. Complains is slowly transitioning into something powerful but scary. Forgath became whatever he is now. Idle rolled a wheel and became a goblin bunny elf girl whose friend needs sex to survive. Maybe one of these days a character will get lucky and discover a good-old-fashioned Belt of Masculinity/Femininity, no strings attached.
    Last edited by Anarchic Fox; 2020-03-23 at 12:14 PM.

  16. - Top - End - #1036
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Well well, new update!

    I noticed that this is just the fourth page this year (at least, according to the url). However, there has been some facial surgery in the meantime, so it's not surprising.

    Also, on the 20th of March, Goblins Animated entered postproduction. There's also some loot you can get (through Indiegogo, it I understand correctly?) https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/g...n#/updates/all


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    Quote Originally Posted by Traab View Post
    So im taking bets. Its been a long time since we saw what dies and crew are up to, and this is an author who loves their cliff hangars, so I think the odds are pretty good this is the last of minmax and kin we will see for a bit. Any takers? Will we get the awkward reunion between kin and minmax first? Or is the next comic going to be forgath and company or dies and company?
    I guess you have a good feeling for this comic
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

  17. - Top - End - #1037
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Vinyadan View Post
    Also, on the 20th of March, Goblins Animated entered postproduction. There's also some loot you can get (through Indiegogo, it I understand correctly?) https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/g...n#/updates/all
    That's still a thing? Wow.

    Took them over two years, but they're closing in on being halfway* to a trailer. Good for them.

    * I ones heard someone say that every hour spent in preproduction equals 3 spent in production and 9** spent in postproduction, that's pretty much the extend of my knowledge on that front.

    ** Presumably these ratios stops being true if you try to be a smartass and save massive amounts of time by rushing through preproduction saying you'll fix things in post.
    The Hindsight Awards, results: See the best movies of 1999!

  18. - Top - End - #1038
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Complains
    Look at me, I don't even know what I am anymore.
    You're a hedgehog, Complains. Or perhaps an echidna. Maybe both.

    Anyway you should really focus on your new quest of going after Robotnik.
    Quote Originally Posted by Midnight Roamer View Post
    I think he did the only morally acceptable thing by killing everyone.
    Hark! An avatar drawn by Kate Beaton!

  19. - Top - End - #1039
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert View Post
    That's still a thing? Wow.

    Took them over two years, but they're closing in on being halfway* to a trailer. Good for them.

    * I ones heard someone say that every hour spent in preproduction equals 3 spent in production and 9** spent in postproduction, that's pretty much the extend of my knowledge on that front.

    ** Presumably these ratios stops being true if you try to be a smartass and save massive amounts of time by rushing through preproduction saying you'll fix things in post.
    Haha. Yeah, that thing is never getting off the ground. I honestly don't think it's even worth entertaining the possibility no matter what Thunt/El says.

  20. - Top - End - #1040
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert View Post
    That's still a thing? Wow.

    Took them over two years, but they're closing in on being halfway* to a trailer. Good for them.
    For fun, lets compare the "first rate" talent Thunt/El put together and compare it with LFG's This Is War.

    THIS IS WAR
    Feb 17th, 2013 it was concluded.
    2,701 backers pledged $132,640 to help bring this project to life.
    Aug 12, 2013 video was released to Youtube.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-Uk...gDragonStudios
    It was well animated, well voiced, and 3 minutes and 33 seconds long.

    Goblins mega trailer
    GOBLINS MEGA TRAILER
    Dec 23, 2017 it was concluded
    2,483 backers pledged $270,994 USD to help bring this project to life.
    It's been over two years and only some half finished drawings are shown.
    It will be longer, but if you include LFG's other animation, I'll Slaughter the world, which was also a good video, over 4 minutes long, and had NO crowd funding, then it's less over all.

    On top of that, they tried asking to make their own pilot for only around 200k, which I'd bet would have actually worked out, if they had gotten the funding. LFG did more work, in less time, for less money.

    But what can you expect from the creator that can't even finish her own funding drive rewards, suckered fans into a scam card game that she then promised to deal and failed after YEARS of ignoring the problem, and didn't.

    What did anyone expect from this scam author? Hell, her surgery go fund me is still begging for money, even though it's been finished for awhile now. Last donation was 20 bucks, six days ago.


    Kickstarter-style websites needs to do some ethics when they allow people to set up crowd funding. Put a cap on how much money unproven people can raise beyond their goal would be a good start. No one needs more than twice their funding goal. The cap can be lifted if they actually succeed in their projects and hard caps can be put into how high the next goal can be in the first place for those that fail. Also, don't allow people to start new projects before the old one is done. Actually, don't let new projects start at all until all the backers are sent an email so they can give a grade on the performance of the creator.

    Yea, if 95%+ give negative reviews, then that person isn't allowed to make a new project.
    Last edited by tomaO2; 2020-04-01 at 04:48 PM.

  21. - Top - End - #1041
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    I looked at the link for the LFG video, even the video for the kickstarter was better animation than that! I should hope we're getting something better.

    Not sure why you keep bringing up the card game. Elli was scammed, and she's still doing her best to do all the work for no money, which I can't imagine anyone would expect her to do since she suffered the most from the scammer, in both money and reputation.

    The surgery did happen but that doesn't mean she can't use the money. It was almost 20k, she probably had to spend a bunch out of her own pocket.

    If you don't want to contribute money, you don't have to. I don't see why you should be upset that some of us do want to pay and do feel we're getting our money's worth. Donations aren't about complaining that the person we donate to should be doing X and Y to accommodate us. It's us giving money to pay for stuff we already got, such as the comic, or to support someone we care about. And they're purely optional.

    Elli's taken a lot of risks over the year and they've come back to bite her (which is why she's more careful now and signs contracts before agreeing to stuff) but I don't fault her for that, I think it's much better than resting on her laurels, and she's always tried hard to meet said goals.

    GAS is being worked on by other people at this point, I believe, so no need to complain to her about it. They're professionals and won't release a half-finished products. Better that they take their time, and maybe get picked up, then release something they're unhappy with that nobody ends up enjoying.

  22. - Top - End - #1042
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    the scam card game was hardly Ell's fault, the scammer made a convincing play that anyone could have fallen into. Ell had no idea that the publisher was going to run away with the money, from what i recall, neither did many of the people who worked alongside the publisher either. it was a surprise scam that seemed to be legit all the way until the very end.

    Now keep in mind, after all that, the only real obligation to fufil promises made by the scam-artist at this point were entirely self-imposed by Ell. everyone knew what happened and that Ell was the victim of a scam artist, nobody was going to turn around and demand something from her when they knew for a fact that she had no means of producing it. Ell took it upon herself to make that card game anyways on her own time. Nobody asked for it, nobody demanded it, it was entirely of her own volition and desire to make up for someone else's crime.

    In the time since then so many things happened. she had to work on the cards on top of the comic, and eventually had to abandon both for a time due to that year-long mental breakdown.

    Since then, Ell has had to work on the comic ON TOP OF talking to the people behind animated ON TOP OF drawing up reference images for every character ON TOP OF writing and illustrating a module book for one of the rewards ON TOP OF drawing the comic ON TOP OF accepting and eventually going through with her transition ON TOP OF recovering from brain surgery, ON TOP OF living a normal life and spending time with her family.

    Now i'm sorry, but that's a lot of crap to put up with! anyone in that situation would find the least-required things and put them on hold for a bit! Don't tell me you wouldn't do the same!

    As it is, GAR is nothing but a personal project she decided to work on out of personal guilt. nobody demanded it, nobody requires it, nobody would throw a fit if it just never happened. it only makes sense that it would go on pause for a little bit while more important things are handled.
    Avy by Thormag
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  23. - Top - End - #1043
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    The people behind LFG are very unusual in the webcomic world. They work more like a studio than like an indie comic. They have been producing a lot of material (I think 6 strips, one Sunday format, and 2 full pages a week with the base Sohmer + De Souza, plus more pages from paid guest artists for NPCs and Little **** Adventures, plus collateral projects like Gutters and the animation studio), and are extremely reliable. I don't think they ever missed a page. They also made contracts with other webcomic producers, where they would handle the publishing of books, the sale of merchandise, web design and such, allowing authors to worry exclusively about the authoring; when Costello (Girls with Slingshots) left them, she appeared to have been overall happy with the experience, although she did pass to Hiveworks.

    And the fact that they honoured the deal with CAD in spite of the obscenity that was born (CAD Animated) and the fact that Sohmer later mentioned it as the worst business venture he ever entered also speaks very positively of them. In this case, it apparently was Blind Ferret itself which approached Buckley (with zero experience in animation).

    The reason why they didn't manage to fund their pilot or whatever it was was that they had been on a flurry of Kickstarters, plus LFG had been suffering a turn for the worse in quality, and their forums had been nuked. If they had got the money, however, I'm sure that they would have delivered. Around a year ago, Sohmer actually got back to it and announced their new animation studio, although they haven't yet produced anything, as far as I know.

    Goblins was associated with Blind Ferret for a while (they also are Canadian). I think that the two parted ways because of the whole card kickstarter deal, https://twitter.com/search?lang=en&q...rc=typed_query https://twitter.com/search?lang=en&q...rc=typed_query

    As for me, I'm not really holding my breath for the Goblins series, because, well, yes, they could make a pilot, but I just don't think the comic has the sort of generalist audience you would need to lead to a full series. But who knows, maybe they can turn it into a more general fantasy story. I don't get this incredibly long time, however, if they raised the money they needed. Rereading some posts on the indiegogo campaign, it appears that they simply aren't experienced ("We're looking at a lot of shots with a lot of detail and finding out all of the things with animation that we didn't know or missed by being green.").

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    ON TOP OF recovering from brain surgery


    You know, I had completely forgotten about that. I think that makes 3-4 different surgeries (facial feminization, brain surgery, heart issues, bone infection in the face).
    Last edited by Vinyadan; 2020-04-01 at 07:28 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by J.R.R. Tolkien, 1955
    I thought Tom Bombadil dreadful — but worse still was the announcer's preliminary remarks that Goldberry was his daughter (!), and that Willowman was an ally of Mordor (!!).

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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by Lissou View Post
    I looked at the link for the LFG video, even the video for the kickstarter was better animation than that! I should hope we're getting something better.

    The trailer video? It has a visibly low number of frames per second, the lines aren't properly sketched, and the colours don't stay within the lines. Plus, it was a lot shorter.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0Q8...oblinsAnimated
    In what way, exactly, is the Goblins trailer better?

    I'm not going to say that the animation I posted is top tier, but I don't see how you could reasonably claim it's better than the original short, and the LFG fans did actually like what they got.

    Not sure why you keep bringing up the card game. Elli was scammed, and she's still doing her best to do all the work for no money, which I can't imagine anyone would expect her to do since she suffered the most from the scammer, in both money and reputation.
    Really? Doing her best you say? She said she was basically done when the Indie Go Go was announced. She clearly felt she needed to fake finishing the project, in order to convince people to give more money for the Mega Trailer. After the successful financing, as far as I can tell, she dropped it like a hot potato. I have a real objection to fake working on something in order to get more money.

    Of course, if she HAS done more work on the card game, I'm all ears. What work has been done since that point?

    As for what I expect, I just expect that a person does what they say, especially when money is involved, and if they can't do what they say, then admit it. Hey, if you come out and say that you messed up, I can forgive that. I'm less inclined to forgive someone that tries some massive ramble of a post that blames a hundred different things though, like what happened when she finally commented on the card game scam, after a good year of ignoring the problem. It was not a good apology post.

    That said, she then started doing some good things to help. Thunt/El then made the personal decision to finish what was started. That was admirable. To that I say, good job. She didn't have to do that. Didn't have to go through all the work to get the list of names of the backers of the game. However, now that she said she's going to do it, she needs to follow through, or admit that she's not going to do it. I expect a follow up. Until there is one, then I'll complain. Sit or get off the pot.

    The surgery did happen but that doesn't mean she can't use the money. It was almost 20k, she probably had to spend a bunch out of her own pocket.
    The total gained is currently $21,038, and counting. Why would she need to spend any money at all? Her stated cost has been completely covered and, if she needed more money, she just has to work for it. Woman can't even manage one comic page a week. She spent years not doing anything at all.

    It's really infuriating, especially now, in a world where so many people have been laid off due to Covid, including me. Someone that can work is just meandering along, and still asking for money for something that was finished a long time ago. She never saw fit to update anyone that donated on her comic blog, or her GoFundMe. Meanwhile, she has all the time in the world to talk about it on twitter, to show off to all her new friends that mostly didn't donate. I have nothing but disdain for those priorities.

    If you don't want to contribute money, you don't have to. I don't see why you should be upset that some of us do want to pay and do feel we're getting our money's worth. Donations aren't about complaining that the person we donate to should be doing X and Y to accommodate us. It's us giving money to pay for stuff we already got, such as the comic, or to support someone we care about. And they're purely optional.
    Fair enough. What worth are you getting from your money? I don't recall anyone talking about it here. Looking at the page, I see that t-shirts are the primary perk and they were promised for Dec 2019, so I assume you got that. Those things are hard to screw up. They are base tier perks that anyone could manage. Heck, I see youtubers constantly trying to shill their own shirt logos to fans all the time. There is also a patch and... some digital stuff, like the books, a module for Well of Darkness (comments say this isn't done), and some... wallpaper prints for the screen? Oh, and a dice set.

    Looking through the comments, there is also a early access game on steam. What is that? Also, there are figurines, and a watch? Looks like most people didn't like the minis in the comments.

    What is with this sale price on all the donation tiers. Why are there so many unclaimed perks?
    ...

    Wait a minute.

    $368,898 CAD by 2,483 backers on Dec 23, 2017
    Total: $384,438 CAD by 2,670 backers

    Oh. My. God. That is the current total. You can still make donations? He's raised another 15k since the project was funded. These are new perks, to get additional donations, right? I did not know you could do that.

    This brings up another question that I have been wondering. It's known that the longer a project takes, the more money it costs. People have been hired to do work, and they still need to be paid, even if the work they did isn't up to snuff. When I look back at the Giant's kickstarter, the money was whisked away really fast, even though it was a million dollars. After a certain point, when the bulk of the work relies on contractors, you have to ask, is there enough money left to finish? How well has this been budgeted? They seem pretty desperate for new funds...

    Elli's taken a lot of risks over the year and they've come back to bite her (which is why she's more careful now and signs contracts before agreeing to stuff) but I don't fault her for that, I think it's much better than resting on her laurels, and she's always tried hard to meet said goals.
    She used to be a person that worked very hard. Used to spend hours every day working, on livestream. When is the last time she did that? I'm not really sure how hard she works these days. Not hard enough to have a lot of results though. There was a brief surge right after coming out as trans, and the output isn't completely awful. Once every 3 week-ish, on average so far this year? Still not a really high output though, and she's stuck in the house anyway, so why wouldn't you be working on it? Always enough time for twitter though.

    GAS is being worked on by other people at this point, I believe, so no need to complain to her about it. They're professionals and won't release a half-finished products. Better that they take their time, and maybe get picked up, then release something they're unhappy with that nobody ends up enjoying.
    I'm not complaining to her though. If I did, I would be instantly blocked or banned, or at least shouted down by her fans, cause the woman can't handle criticism. Do you see me on the Goblins forum? I'm just bad mouthing another terrible artist that fails to deliver on promises. I don't even do it all that often. It's not like the old Dominic Deegan thread, where every day is a snarkfest.

    I complain about her actions, just like I did when Rob Balder of Erfworld failed to deliver on his first kickstarter, or when Piro of Mega Tokyo failed to deliver on his visual novel kickstarter. Many, many, people are a bunch of wastes that beg for money, and then don't deliver. They all irritate me. Goblins is simply a comic I've followed more closely than most, so it bothers me more when she can't live up to her own declared expectations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draconi Redfir View Post
    Since then, Ell has had to work on the comic ON TOP OF talking to the people behind animated ON TOP OF drawing up reference images for every character ON TOP OF writing and illustrating a module book for one of the rewards ON TOP OF drawing the comic ON TOP OF accepting and eventually going through with her transition ON TOP OF recovering from brain surgery, ON TOP OF living a normal life and spending time with her family.
    If you find that you gave yourself too many things to do, then prioritize. If a comic author says that updates are on mondays, then I expect updates on mondays. If an author says updates are whenever I want, then that's also fine, as long as you are telling everyone what's going on.

    I don't have a vested interest in telling her what to do, I'm simply holding her to her own stated standards. Unfortunately, she is a woman that has constantly failed to live up to her own goals.
    Last edited by tomaO2; 2020-04-01 at 08:49 PM.

  25. - Top - End - #1045
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by tomaO2 View Post
    If you find that you gave yourself too many things to do, then prioritize. If a comic author says that updates are on mondays, then I expect updates on mondays. If an author says updates are whenever I want, then that's also fine, as long as you are telling everyone what's going on.
    she is, that's literally what i'm trying to tell you.

    the reason why the card game hasn't had any updates lately is because it's a lower priority then everything else. Right now, she's focusing mainly on finishing up the dungeon module for the indegogo rewards, with updating the comic as a secondary but still important priority. All of this is also superseded by the surgery recovery, which is a higher priority then all of it.

    She used to be a person that worked very hard. Used to spend hours every day working, on livestream. When is the last time she did that? I'm not really sure how hard she works these days. Not hard enough to have a lot of results though. There was a brief surge right after coming out as trans, and the output isn't completely awful. Once every 3 week-ish, on average so far this year? Still not a really high output though, and she's stuck in the house anyway, so why wouldn't you be working on it? Always enough time for twitter though.
    seriously? Twitter only takes a couple of seconds to make a post on, while everything else you're talking can take hours upon hours. of course she'll spend a bit of time on twitter, it's a brief break or step away from other things that doesn't take up a lot of time or effort.

    Who the hell do you think you are to judge weather or not someone else is "working hard enough" anyways? you're not her boss, that is not your call. You have no proof to suggest she's not working on everything regularly anyways. sometimes things just take longer then other things. or maybe she just wants to spend some time recovering or doing personal things in between work shifts. either way it's none of your business.
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Quote Originally Posted by tomaO2 View Post
    I'm not complaining to her though. If I did, I would be instantly blocked or banned, or at least shouted down by her fans, cause the woman can't handle criticism. Do you see me on the Goblins forum? I'm just bad mouthing another terrible artist that fails to deliver on promises. I don't even do it all that often. It's not like the old Dominic Deegan thread, where every day is a snarkfest.
    On the other hand, even if it's not often, it seems like you only come in here to complain. Based on everything that you've said, all your responses, I honestly don't even know why you're still here unless you're just wanting to find more to complain about. Just seems like a waste of time and energy to look up things that perturb you this much.

    I understand that threads here for certain comics tend towards negativity, just by stint of being on a big forum that's not the official ones (and thus not subject to the same moderation), especially given the prior conversation that went on in this thread... but, man, definitely not a real fun vibe. I don't get the appeal of going to a place where you build up that much negativity.

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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    I'm going to act like you are genuinely trying to understand me here, so I'll give you a full answer. I hope you can seriously try and look at it from my perspective, and not just assume the worst.

    I've been reading this comic since end of book 1. How long have you been reading it? I used to have good things to say, and I had bad things to say. I'm pretty opinionated. When I said bad things, back in the day, it was on the Goblins forum, and I got completely dogpiled every damn time, as is normally the case whenever you dare to disagree with anything other than slavish fanboyism. Eventually, it was too stressful so I stopped posting there. I don't have anything good to say the last few years, because there isn't anything much good to say, it's been a very long time since we got regular updates, notwithstanding the brief surge after the trans announcement, and there is a lot of bad stuff that has built up. A lot of bad will that has formed, and it does feel a bit better to rant about it, and I think people should know about it. It would also feel good to see her do things I agree with though.

    My main avatar, which I can't use here, is a creature from the comic. I used to shill for Goblins, back in the day. The fact is, I hate this comic in a way that I can only feel because I used to love it.

    People complained about Kin, and her rape arc, but I didn't (I did complain about Chief dying. Gods, that page is horrific). Some people complained about a donation drive to fund her house. It's her money, and she said what she wanted it for. Why are these people complaining? I was a big fan of the Temps Fate Dungeon game she created. I made a new thread on that. It was very exciting, and it's not the fact that it fell through that bothered me the most, it was due to her impossible standards she sets for herself.

    We had a game, and it was fine as is, but she, suddenly, after the last moment, when she's already getting donations to run it, decides she needs to do even BETTER, so she sets a goal to improve it that she can't reach, and so it fails. Then, not wanting to admit she failed, she goes about quietly scrubbing all mentions of the project. That is a habit of hers that I hate. There was a whole community that built up around the love for that setting, and it was trashed without a mention, and she left the sub-community to slowly wither away, none of them knowing its ultimate fate. This is how she tries to deal with all her bad actions. She sweeps them under the rug and hopes people will forget.

    I don't think that's right. Her bad actions should not be swept under the rug, so I will bring them up again, until they are actually dealt with.

    When I found out that Elli was actually going to make the card game, I was very impressed. If you had asked me if she needed to make that promise, I would have said no. I literally have nothing bad to say about the card game, except the fact that she ignored the fact that it was a scam for a year, and then posted one of the most rambling apology posts I'd ever read, that wasn't even really an apology, just a bunch of deflections and excuse making. Which also seems to be a trait of hers.

    I'm of the belief that a person should not engage in multiple projects though. Don't start something before you've finished something else. I felt that this game needed to be finished before taking on the Mega Trailer. So, I originally complained about that, but then I heard that, actually, the game was pretty much done, that went a long way with me. She didn't finish the final Temps Fate page, and I still think she should do that, but she did pretty much finish the card game. So, okay, good luck then, I really hope you the best, man, I feel bad for initially going at her now.

    Except, she wasn't almost finished the card game. Years go by and no card game, no mega trailer, no nothing, except some cheap perks that were never the reason for people to get into the crowdfund. And that's the thing with her, it's always these slow burns of neglect. The kind of things you can only get mad about if you've been paying attention for a long time. Unlike the mega-trailer, which at least gets SOME updates (probably only because it's not Elli running it), not a single word, that I have found, on the card game. This is sounding like another one of those ignoring a promise until people forget situations. Makes it sound like she only cared about the optics of not working on what she promised. That is the only reason we got that burst of activity, to shut up naysayers. That is what was important to her. I feel like I was tricked and manipulated so she could get more money, and not have to deal with criticism.

    I don't want to be completely negative. I have the level of investment of a person that has been reading this comic for many years. It's one of a small handful that I have actually put a bit of money towards. I've read the overly personal blog posts she keeps putting up, I'm a person that watched the live streams, and honestly wanted to her to succeed. That felt bad when her ex-wife went to Will Wheaton in order to badmouth him after he wrote the man in as a cameo for a few comic pages. That was happy to hear that she had quit her job to do the comic full time, only to start being disappointed as the output slowed down again until it ended up being worse than it was before she quit, despite all that extra time. I'm someone that enjoyed the livestream interactive roleplay challenge series she did once.

    I have been very disappointed in how it's gone down. I also didn't like how every time I had a contrary opinion on the goblins forum, that I got dogpiled. Even a simple comment like, "you need to focus on one page per update". I said that way back when every update was 2-5 pages. I got so much flack for that opinion but, in the end, she changed to that. Not that I expect an apology for the way I was treated at the time. Honestly, that's not a big deal, I get now that comic forums are just like that. They aren't places for your real opinions. Other artists, I don't care as much, but this one is personal to me. Why should she get a pass? Why should she get a pass for promising a fan that she would definitely add the fancomic that she spent many hours creating, only to not bother. How completely dismissive to someone that really gave it their all.

    It was wonderful work. How many people have put this level of effort into a fancomic? If you haven't read it already, I'd strongly suggest it. http://www.acyn.net/RSE_main.html
    She wrote a sequel this this as well, about as long as this. If she had been given just a little bit of appreciation for all the work she did, such as by putting it on his website somewhere, she probably would have written a few more stories. Elli said she would do it, but didn't. The fancomic author obviously lost interest after that. Who wouldn't?

    I don't add much but negativity because there isn't much positive to say anymore, and the stuff she's done pisses me off, and I doubt you when you claim to not understand this feeling. You don't have negative opinions about Trump? Don't you feel angry about Bernie or Bidan? You probably really hate at least one of those three. I mentioned Dominic Deegan which is a thread that gets to reopen, back in the day it was just constant posts of snark. Do you like sports? You know that team you love that just never wins, but only if they listened to your great ideas, they would? Take twitter, and their mob of puritans. Because someone has made a bad tweet. You say the wrong thing and they will never let it go.

    Elli was so harassed for... something that caused her to spend 25% of one of his donation drives to charity. What was it? I feel like it was a tweet she made that got a mob attacking her for trivial reasons, but am not sure. Um, there was a situation with a voting contest that some people said she was pushing her fans too hard to help her win. The final round was between Goblins and Gunnerkrigg Court, and Goblins won, but there was some pushback... I don't remember the details. I think that was it. Alternatively, it might have been that one time she made a mind control joke. "Someday, all the women of the world will be mine." The line went something like that. A woman complained, she got completely crapped on in a way that I thought was way overboard, and those were the early days of twitter mobs. Today, I think she wouldn't appreciate me defending her anymore on that. She seems very eager to judge people based on one bad take they might make, and that kinda makes me sad. I've looked on her twitter, she's said things I don't like, but that doesn't have anything to do with Goblins the comic, generally speaking.

    Come on, do you really not know why people indulge in negativity? I think you do. We all do. You can bury your head in the sand all you want. Draconi Redfir tells me that I'm wrong because I think this or that is happening. Maybe she really is just too busy to work on X, but does Elli say this is the case? I can only go on the actions, and those actions make me feel that she made this big huge push on the card game right when the new project needed crowdfunding, and then tries to ignore it.

    Why can't I just let her ignore it too? Why should I? I don't feel like should leave because my opinion is different to others. It's not bullying by bringing up facts, and I'm not hate watching with the goal to find every negative thing I can either. I don't need to look hard at all to find this stuff, I just need to not forget stuff that has happened. Trust is something that needs to be earned as well and the past two years has been mostly a big nothing in terms of any content whatsoever. I got no reason to believe in her at this point. Slow updates, no mega-trailer, ignoring the promised final update of the Temps Fate comic, and can't even give an update to people that donated to her Go Fund Me, to tell them that it was successful, even though can't shut up about it on twitter.

    Real lack of respect there. I think it deserves to be called out. It's fair to bring up criticisms. I'm not making things up, I'm not bashing her for a bad take. These are things she did, so why shouldn't I mention them? We are not required to feel one way about something, so it would be nice to not be told to go away, or shut up, because someone disagrees with my opinion on the comic, and how the creator has run her business on it.
    Last edited by tomaO2; 2020-04-02 at 04:01 AM.

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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    Alright, I see where you're coming from in that it's mostly from what it was, rather than anything else. And that's understandable. I've had things like that, where I really enjoyed it but then grew to not as it developed. But one thing that I've learned from each of them is... it doesn't help getting angry over them. It's always ended up getting much better for me and my mental state to just accept at a point that it's no longer something that I like. And drift away.

    I don't want to go to places where it causes me to have nothing but negativity. Yes, sure, if something comes up naturally in a conversation, I'll probably give my negative opinion on it - I certainly cannot claim to be an unending font of positivity, that would be disingenuous - but I don't seek out places to give those opinions. Because all it causes me is hurt, and I've found nothing rewarding about it.

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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    @toma02: You've pretty much summed up exactly how I feel about Elli and her conduct, past and present, a big thank you for putting it in a way I never could. I agree with every word of it.

    @DataNinja: I think it is important to find places where you can say these things. If someone has a history of accepting money for a project and then not following through on it repeatedly, it's only fair to let people know what they get into when they support the next project. Especially people new to the fandom who didn't experience the past failures firsthand.
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    Default Re: Goblins XVII: The shocking end of the story arc

    @toma02

    I get where you're coming from. I'll never understand why she decided to take responsibility for the Kickstarter fiasco when she was as much a victim as everyone else (more so than anyone else, really). Not because it was an ignoble idea or anything - but just because it was so, so apparent that it was a bad idea and a waste of time. Kickstarter wasn't going to help and she did not have the money or capability to deliver on any promises that had been made during the drive without unnecessary hardship. There's a big difference between doing something for her fans to say 'sorry we all got ripped off' and trying to make a spectacle out of her efforts.

    As far as the surgery drive goes - I will say that it bothers me. About 3 (I think) months ago I realized that the post was still there and decided to donate $10 - I felt bad that she was still collecting. I clicked the line only to find that the goal had already been met. Why is it still on the front page of Goblins if the goal had already been met? Shouldn't there be a post or an update or something saying that the goal was met - even if you want to keep it going for additional funds at least mention that the main goal was accomplished? And now here we are 3 months later, the surgery is done now but you'd only ever know that if you follow her on Twitter. The front page of her site - where I'm guessing the majority of her donations came from - still just says "Please give me money for my surgery." I feel like I almost got tricked into donating to a huckster.

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