Sorcerer changes

[Mystical-man]

I was looking over the sorcerer class a bit and how people feel about the class and I think most people can agree that it's underpowered when compared to the other main spell casters like warlocks and wizard. I had a idea about how to tweak the Sorcerer a bit to make it more powerful and to fit the theme of it more.

I thought about this while thinking of a character that has eldritch blood and while warlock might fit this I felt sorcerer fit it better from a flavour standpoint. One idea I had is that sorcerer's don't require CHA or an other mental ability for spell casting and make it feel like the magic is more physical and too give it a buff, I understand CHA is often used for spell casters that don't gain their abilities through study or worship but I feel the sorcerer is a special case. I haven't sorted out exactly how I would do this but would like to get some feedback purely on the base idea for now and to see maybe if anyone has any suggestions.

[Vogie]

I was looking over the sorcerer class a bit and how people feel about the class and I think most people can agree that it's underpowered when compared to the other main spell casters like warlocks and wizard. I had a idea about how to tweak the Sorcerer a bit to make it more powerful and to fit the theme of it more.

I thought about this while thinking of a character that has eldritch blood and while warlock might fit this I felt sorcerer fit it better from a flavour standpoint. One idea I had is that sorcerer's don't require CHA or an other mental ability for spell casting and make it feel like the magic is more physical and too give it a buff, I understand CHA is often used for spell casters that don't gain their abilities through study or worship but I feel the sorcerer is a special case. I haven't sorted out exactly how I would do this but would like to get some feedback purely on the base idea for now and to see maybe if anyone has any suggestions.

It depends on how you mean "more powerful"
What do you feel is the biggest issue that they're lacking??

[Nifft]

Sorcerers are very powerful -- metamagic breaks fundamental limitations, including action economy and buffs per person.

They're not very flexible, though, so if you don't focus on the power they can feel underwhelming.

My advice: if you're going to increase the flexibility -- more spells, more non-spell perks, whatever -- then also decrease their overall power by limiting metamagic in some way.

[Mystical-man]

well I am not looking to increase the versatility, I am thinking about changing the spellcasting ability of the sorcerer. Making it something instead of CHA to (in my opinion) fit the theme of gaining magic from your bloodline better.

[kosh49]

Part of Charisma is force of personality, which feels like a reasonable spellcasting ability for an instinctive caster to me.

Using a physical ability bothers me. First of all bloodline here is being used in the old sense of inherited characteristics from your ancestors which today we would describe more as genetics,it is not actually referring to physical blood as such. Secondly I do not see a good choice for an ability score to use. Muscular feats (strength) do not seem to correlate to spell casting to me, nor does physical nimbleness (dexterity). Constitution seems to be the best fit, but having constitution be both the spellcasting ability and the key to concentration saves feels broken even before we get to the fact that sorcerers are the only full casters who are proficient in constitution saves (and eldritch knights are the only partial casters proficient with constitution saves).

[Mystical-man]

Hmmm you have a good point there, using con as a stat would be the one to fit it best but at the same time it would get overpowered. Would maybe a something that uses purely proficiency bonus work? so your spell attack modifier is double your proficiency bonus and your spellcasting DC is 8 + double your proficiency bonus.

[Nifft]

Hmmm you have a good point there, using con as a stat would be the one to fit it best but at the same time it would get overpowered. Would maybe a something that uses purely proficiency bonus work? so your spell attack modifier is double your proficiency bonus and your spellcasting DC is 8 + double your proficiency bonus.

Yeah, I've done classes like that.

It's a bit worse at the lowest levels (1-4), fine from 5-16, and then a bit better at the highest levels (17+).

Not a problem at all, and it's proven mildly interesting.

[Mystical-man]

Yeah, I've done classes like that.

It's a bit worse at the lowest levels (1-4), fine from 5-16, and then a bit better at the highest levels (17+).

Not a problem at all, and it's proven mildly interesting.

Plus thinking about this it thematically fits. A sorcerer doesn't really have a full understanding of how magic works when compared to the wizard and their magic is probably more uncontrollable but still more powerful. So it would be understandable that at the higher levels you are better at magic as you have had more time and have more control over your magic

[kosh49]

My concern is that maxing out a spell casting ability bonus at +5 costs 7 to 9 points of the point buy allocation and 2 ASIs. Substituting proficiency lets you max out the bonus at +6 for no cost. For a subclass ability you use a few times between rests it sounds fine, for the spell casting ability that controls virtually all of your offense it feels too powerful to me.