The LA-assignment thread V: Escape from LA

[Hish]

Is that a metaphysical restriction (e.g, new phoelarches can only be born when an egg is destroyed because that frees one of a finite number of phoelarch souls, and reproducing when there isn't one available resuts in a soulless abomination) or a sociological one (e.g, the phoelarches only have officially-sanctioned occupations for 12,593 people, and don't know what #12,594 would do)?

Metaphysical. Phoelarches can't reproduce normally at all; instead, when an egg is destroyed a new egg falls from the sky like a meteor. I think they'd still see a population change if a bunch of eggs were destroyed at once (so it'd take time to catch up) or if there was a really healthy population with few egg destructions (eggs would continue to fall at a slower rate, so population growth).

[Inevitability]

Phoera LA changed to -0. Expect a new entry soon.

[Inevitability]

Plague Brush

I guess an encounter with those would be... a brush with death.

...except, y'know, not, because it's a CR 17 monster that can't fly or attack at range. Hell, an archer on a horse could probably kill it with enough time and arrows. Oh, and it's also got 31 plant RHD, so any of you who are still reading can stop now and skip to the end.

Anyways: colossal size, high strength and constitution, average or nonexistent other stats. One slam attack, some natural armor, a 30 ft. aura of poisonous spores, and a 20% chance for piercing melee or ranged attacks to miss, because piercing is the worst damage type despite being presented as on par with slashing and bludgeoning.

I'd like to draw special attention to Scoop, which is basically Improved Grab for Trample, and which is supposed to be one of the bush's main offense modes. Surprisingly, combining two bad abilities doesn't make it good.

So yeah, awful monster, awful abilities, not even some dumb SLAs or a pitiful 'shoot thorn' attack. Don't use this if you're a DM, definitely don't use this if you're a player. -0 LA.

[GreatWyrmGold]

...and a 20% chance for piercing melee or ranged attacks to miss, because piercing is the worst damage type despite being presented as on par with slashing and bludgeoning.

Hey, a blessed piercing weapon can deal full damage to rakshasas! And...um...
Yeah, it is weird how piercing is always left behind. I mean, it's nothing big, just some weapon abilities or feats which can only be applied to bludgeoning/slashing weapons or defenses which are overcome by bludgeoning/slashing weapons, but it adds up.

[Random Sanity]

[CENTER]Plague Brush

I guess an encounter with those would be... a brush with death.

...except, y'know, not, because it's a CR 17 monster that can't fly or attack at range. Hell, an archer on a horse could probably kill it with enough time and arrows. Oh, and it's also got 31 plant RHD, so any of you who are still reading can stop now and skip to the end.

Anyways: colossal size, high strength and constitution, average or nonexistent other stats. One slam attack, some natural armor, a 30 ft. aura of poisonous spores, and a 20% chance for piercing melee or ranged attacks to miss, because piercing is the worst damage type despite being presented as on par with slashing and bludgeoning.

I'd like to draw special attention to Scoop, which is basically Improved Grab for Trample, and which is supposed to be one of the bush's main offense modes. Surprisingly, combining two bad abilities doesn't make it good.

So yeah, awful monster, awful abilities, not even some dumb SLAs or a pitiful 'shoot thorn' attack. Don't use this if you're a DM, definitely don't use this if you're a player. -0 LA.

Predictably, using a Mega Mushroom on a tumbleweed that had been soaking in toxic waste didn't end well for Egrad the Eccentric and his assistants ...

Yeah, -0. This thing's got at least 30 too many RHD to be playable as-is.

[Zaq]

My, the Prime Material really is full of things.

[Lapak]

Hey, a blessed piercing weapon can deal full damage to rakshasas! And...um...
Yeah, it is weird how piercing is always left behind. I mean, it's nothing big, just some weapon abilities or feats which can only be applied to bludgeoning/slashing weapons or defenses which are overcome by bludgeoning/slashing weapons, but it adds up.

It is especially weird when you consider that the majority of primary military weapons throughout history would have piercing as either one of the types or the only type in D&D. Spears, pikes, arrows, stabbing swords, bayonets, guns, lances... you get that impression that people think poking holes in your enemies works pretty well in a broad range of situations. And particularly as the go-to option against enemies that are armored or difficult to kill.

[Mike Miller]

So many rhd... I have a feeling the entire ELH will be -0

[ViperMagnum357]

LA -0, easily. Not much else to say, really.

[Nifft]

[CENTER]Plague Brush

Oh, and it's also got 31 plant RHD, so any of you who are still reading can stop now and skip to the end.

Plague Bruh.

Yeah this one's pretty easy. LA -0, next.

[jindra34]

Melee base+31hd==-0 LA. No way to argue otherwise.

[Blue Jay]

Plague Brush: LA -0. I don't suppose a plague brush would get any body slots?

Personally, I always wondered why they needed all the different "plant monsters": it seems like it would make one really entertaining boss monster if you mashed them all together like an uber-gestalt. Start with a shambling mound, and give it ridiculously long vines and entangle like an assassin vine, swallow whole like a tendriculos, a ranged thorns attack like a needlefolk (but with a volley function, and poison), some weird spawning/zombifying ability like a yellow musk creeper, some spore clouds like a myconid, basic defenses like a treant, maybe a weird song attack like a night twist, and then maybe it can roll up into a "tumbleweed" form like a plague brush for fast movement and trampling. :D

[Nifft]

I have a feeling the entire ELH will be -0

Counterpoint: Mercane.

[Efrate]

A very firm -0. Are these the giant plants with greensickness or is that another giant plant thing?

[javcs]

Concur, -0.

They do have an ability called Greensickness, but it's a 30ft radius inhaled poison. Brutal effects if somebody somehow got too close without either a good enough Fort save or poison immunity. 2d6 Str and 1d4 Con for both initial and secondary damage.




As for the ELH, the templates should all come out with positive LAs.
Also, the Ha-Naga looks like a +1 or +0, between 20RHD and sorcerer 21 racial casting.
Also, the Mercane is certainly a candidate for not automatically being -0, though it's a weaker +0, if not actually a -0 ... it's more of a borderline case, I think.
Elder Titans and some of the older epic dragons might do okay too, since they do have epic racial casting, despite lots of RHD.
That's just from a brief skimming, but there are probably others that might not just be an automatic -0 either.

[Efrate]

Yeah it's great to make with psionic minor creation on a warforged. It's organic. The stinkbot of doom for quite a few levels.

[Thurbane]

31HD non-intelligent plant without limbs? Hmm, let me think.. LA -0.

[OgresAreCute]

31HD non-intelligent plant without limbs? Hmm, let me think.. LA -0.

If you were a non-intelligent plant I wouldn't let you think.

[GreatWyrmGold]

It is especially weird when you consider that the majority of primary military weapons throughout history would have piercing as either one of the types or the only type in D&D. Spears, pikes, arrows, stabbing swords, bayonets, guns, lances... you get that impression that people think poking holes in your enemies works pretty well in a broad range of situations. And particularly as the go-to option against enemies that are armored or difficult to kill.

The one thing most of those have in common is reach. It's obvious for ranged weapons (slings aside, it's hard to make ranged weapons that aren't "piercing"), but true for melee weapons as well. Reach is a huge advantage in combat, and it's hard to get reach while chopping or smacking someone.
On the other hand, you don't get as much leverage from stabbing...but that's not much good if the enemy army is keeping you out of reach with a giant reverse pincushion.

[Thurbane]

If you were a non-intelligent plant I wouldn't let you think.

[Elkad]

And I'm re-reading (actually listening for the first time), and just heard that reference on the way home today.

[Celestia]

The one thing most of those have in common is reach. It's obvious for ranged weapons (slings aside, it's hard to make ranged weapons that aren't "piercing"), but true for melee weapons as well. Reach is a huge advantage in combat, and it's hard to get reach while chopping or smacking someone.
On the other hand, you don't get as much leverage from stabbing...but that's not much good if the enemy army is keeping you out of reach with a giant reverse pincushion.

Actually, the main reasons why spears were the "default" weapon of war are that they're cheap to make and easy to use. Medieval militaries were largely composed of peasants drafted by the local lords, peasants who had neither the money for other weapons nor the skills to use them. Spears could be made quickly and easily, and even the dullest of farmers can use them competently.

Don't get me wrong, reach is a big deal, and being able to attack your enemy before they can attack you is very helpful, but it's not the be all end all of advantages. War has many facets and complications.

[GreatWyrmGold]

Actually, the main reasons why spears were the "default" weapon of war are that they're cheap to make and easy to use. Medieval militaries were largely composed of peasants drafted by the local lords, peasants who had neither the money for other weapons nor the skills to use them. Spears could be made quickly and easily, and even the dullest of farmers can use them competently.

Don't get me wrong, reach is a big deal, and being able to attack your enemy before they can attack you is very helpful, but it's not the be all end all of advantages. War has many facets and complications.

Then why were spears also used by later pikemen who did have the time to train, and earlier by the Spartans?
And I'd argue that if you want a weapon that people can't screw up the use of, a mace or club is probably a better bet than a spear (albeit by a narrow margin). It's the reach, among other things, that pushes spears above maces and clubs.

[No brains]

I'm sure the merits of spears can be discussed in the Got a Real World Weapon/ Armor/ Tactic thread until we're all blue in the keyboard. I think after all the logistics of crafting and training are discussed, it all might boil down to a mentality of "I have a chance of hitting him first!"

If you were a non-intelligent plant I wouldn't let you think.

As a ghost brute shrieker, I scream about this on the ethereal plane where nobody can hear me. I forgot the template that also got rid of wis or cha.

[javcs]

Then why were spears also used by later pikemen who did have the time to train, and earlier by the Spartans?
And I'd argue that if you want a weapon that people can't screw up the use of, a mace or club is probably a better bet than a spear (albeit by a narrow margin). It's the reach, among other things, that pushes spears above maces and clubs.

You need only two or three inches of penetration to land a fatal wound pretty much anywhere on the body.

Spears and pikes use a thrusting motion that is easier to train and allow for a more tightly packed formation, giving it greater weight at the shock of impact.

The reach is also a major factor, especially when it comes to formation fighting, as it allows for the second, third, and possibly more, ranks to be striking the enemy formation.


Also, a spear, pike, or similar, is easier to both charge and withstand a charge with, than a weapon that requires a swinging motion.

Pikes were used because a formation of pikes that holds formation is functionally immune to cavalry charges. You can't train a horse into being willing to charge an intact line of pikes.
They're also no fun to charge into as a formation of infantry, and you basically need to slow down a lot to avoid spitting yourself on the points, which basically ruins the point of charging.


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Anyways.
Plague Spewer next.
Is there a Plague anything that doesn't suck?

[GreatWyrmGold]

Is it surprising? Plague Anythings are carrying a debilitating disease.

[Zaq]

Is there a Plague anything that doesn't suck?

I mean, Plague Knight is my favorite Shovel Knight character.

Oh, in D&D? Meh.

[Blue Jay]

Anyways.
Plague Spewer next.
Is there a Plague anything that doesn't suck?

Well, spewing is kind of the opposite of sucking...

[TiaC]

-0 for this, -0 for the next.

[javcs]

Well, spewing is kind of the opposite of sucking...

Since you have no control over the rat swarms and they can bypass your DR, and they're limited in uses per day, Vomit Rat Swarm still sucks.


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Can we get a double post of monsters next to get to a far more interesting monster in the Protean Scourge, since the Plague Spewer isn't going to have much to say about it?