OOTS #1142 - The Discussion Thread

[Grey Watcher]

How would "the slightest disagreement" between Thor and the Dark One create a new Snarl? I thought it only emerged after Ages of infighting between four entire pantheons, and required so much disagreement over such a long period of time that its creation was so subtle that none of them noticed and so it took them all off guard.

Also... does Thor's comment there sound like foreshadowing to anyone else? Calling it now: they'll destroy the Snarl by creating a counter-Snarl with the Dark One's help and having the two annihilate each other.

If Loki thinks "unmake the world" is something they could do within 10 minutes, it seems likely that they could create a world in a relatively short amount of time. (A day? A week? A month? A year?) It might have literally been a matter of minutes between "Hey guys, let's create a new world together!" to "What the heck just happened to Ares!?"

And the gods definitely seem to have a better-safe-than-shredded-to-bits-sorry policy. They might not know how big a snarl has to be to be deadly, but they also REALLY don't want to find out.

[Dausuul]

"My Fault"? I'm guessing the whole idea of creating the Goblin race as XP Fodder for Clerics was Thor's idea?

That's my bet as well... emphasis on "bet."

When you wake up one morning with a killer hangover and a race of followers who have to die in battle or be damned forever, you gotta make sure they have something to fight.

[anonynos]

How would "the slightest disagreement" between Thor and the Dark One create a new Snarl? I thought it only emerged after Ages of infighting between four entire pantheons, and required so much disagreement over such a long period of time that its creation was so subtle that none of them noticed and so it took them all off guard.

/COULD/ create one. Could being the operative word there. They probably don't know exactly what it took to make the snarl appear, so he doesn't want to risk making the situation even worse by adding in another mini-snarl.

[Fyraltari]

Interesting, now we know why the gods can't just wait out for another Dark One. Arising has to happen without their input, if they intentionnally made things so that new gods would arise they would not get a new quiddity. I believe that may also explain why there is so few ascended mortals: they had to get the pre-existing gods approval.

However that doesn't expalin why the Dark One can't help for the next world (apart from being a contrarian). I hope Thor explains next strip.

How would "the slightest disagreement" between Thor and the Dark One create a new Snarl? I thought it only emerged after Ages of infighting between four entire pantheons, and required so much disagreement over such a long period of time that its creation was so subtle that none of them noticed and so it took them all off guard.

That happened only once. The gods don't know the exact causes and are not willing to experiment. How much disagreement is too much? How many gods need to be involved? For how long? Nobody knows and nobody wants to find out. Better safe than sorry.

Also... does Thor's comment there sound like foreshadowing to anyone else? Calling it now: they'll destroy the Snarl by creating a counter-Snarl with the Dark One's help and having the two annihilate each other.

I don't think you can destroy chaos by throwing more chaos at it. Same goes for anger, discord disagreement and all of the other things the Snarl was born of.

[masonwheeler]

And the gods definitely seem to have a better-safe-than-shredded-to-bits-sorry policy. They might not know how big a snarl has to be to be deadly, but they also REALLY don't want to find out.

Some of them, at least. The Godsmoot made it abundantly clear that "The Gods" as a single organization with a single policy is not a thing in any way in this world.

[mjasghar]

I wonder if he really tried to kill Dark One.

I also wonder what is his plan of reasoning with him.

CG god of barbarians sees a new LE god of monsters
I wonder...
As for the colour - the goblin who became the dark one was purple (anyone know what specific subrace that is supposed to be?)

[Fyraltari]

If Loki thinks "unmake the world" is something they could do within 10 minutes, it seems likely that they could create a world in a relatively short amount of time. (A day? A week? A month? A year?) It might have literally been a matter of minutes between "Hey guys, let's create a new world together!" to "What the heck just happened to Ares!?"

And the gods definitely seem to have a better-safe-than-shredded-to-bits-sorry policy. They might not know how big a snarl has to be to be deadly, but they also REALLY don't want to find out.

As a anyone who ever built sandcastles can tell you, destruction is generally must faster than construction.

[masonwheeler]

I don't think you can destroy chaos by throwing more chaos at it. Same goes for anger, discord disagreement and all of the other things the Snarl was born of.

Why not? It worked in Dragonlance. Repeatedly.

[Peelee]

How would "the slightest disagreement" between Thor and the Dark One create a new Snarl? I thought it only emerged after Ages of infighting between four entire pantheons, and required so much disagreement over such a long period of time that its creation was so subtle that none of them noticed and so it took them all off guard.

Also... does Thor's comment there sound like foreshadowing to anyone else? Calling it now: they'll destroy the Snarl by creating a counter-Snarl with the Dark One's help and having the two annihilate each other.

Five gold says the snarl thing will be solved by cooperation and not more fighting.

[Jasdoif]

Also... does Thor's comment there sound like foreshadowing to anyone else? Calling it now: they'll destroy the Snarl by creating a counter-Snarl with the Dark One's help and having the two annihilate each other.

I don't think you can destroy chaos by throwing more chaos at it. Same goes for anger, discord disagreement and all of the other things the Snarl was born of.

Also, the energy output of a Snarl-antiSnarl reaction might eradicate the multiverse.

[2D8HP]

"...totally Metal"


Thor said METAL!

I'm totally in the tank(ard) for this!

[Fyraltari]

Why not? It worked in Dragonlance. Repeatedly.

If you say so. I don't know what that is.

[Grey Watcher]

Some of them, at least. The Godsmoot made it abundantly clear that "The Gods" as a single organization with a single policy is not a thing in any way in this world.

I think "Let's not get anywhere near creating another Snarl" and "Let's keep the Snarl locked up" are literally the only two things that they unanimously support.

As a anyone who ever built sandcastles can tell you, destruction is generally must faster than construction.

True, so maybe hours instead of minutes. But the point is, there's a strong possibility that it was a lot less than "ages".

NOTE: I'm gonna go back and look at what Shojo says. I realize his exposition has an asterix on it for potential inaccuracies, but it's the best account we have until and unless Thor (or one of the other gods) provides more exposition.

EDIT: OK, Shojo says the Snarl grew with each passing day, so we are taking on a scale of days, at least.

[PirateMonk]

As for the colour - the goblin who became the dark one was purple (anyone know what specific subrace that is supposed to be?)

I'm pretty sure he's just a regular goblin with various unusual traits. The skin color in particular may be a riff on Drizzt Do'Urden's purple eyes.

[Resileaf]

Considering Thor has full control over his image of the Dark One, it's funny that he has him glare angrily at Minrah, Durkon and himself.

[Ron Miel]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I for one would totally be fine with 100-200 strips of this Thor and the Dark One sitcom. A series of hilarious misunderstandings would cause each episode to end with a new Snarl unmaking creation but it'd be back to normal at the start of the next one.

You could call it The God Couple.

[Kish]

If you say so. I don't know what that is.

A D&D novel series, and attached campaign setting, of hotly debated qualify. Known for such gems as "too much good makes you evil" and for elves who are essentially Nazis because they're the first race created by the gods of good.

[jwhouk]

As a anyone who ever built sandcastles can tell you, destruction is generally must faster than construction.

It took four years to build the World Trade Centers, but only two hours to bring them down.

[Ron Miel]

CG god of barbarians sees a new LE god of monsters
I wonder...
As for the colour - the goblin who became the dark one was purple (anyone know what specific subrace that is supposed to be?)

I think he was supposed to be unique.

[Fyraltari]

A D&D novel series, and attached campaign setting, of hotly debated qualify. Known for such gems as "too much good makes you evil" and for elves who are essentially Nazis because they're the first race created by the gods of good.

Thanks for the info. I will go on a limb and say that if that is representative of the logic that is valid in these parts, then its ideas on how to defeat a creature of pure chaos are not worth investigating.

[Quinton250]

There is no way that Red Cloak (the goblin) will forgive all that has happened.

Wait ... will Durkon end up wearing The Red Cloak (thereby becoming the new HPoDO) once all is said and done?!?

Nope. I think I should forget that thought...

I’ve been thinking this for a few strips now. Ill type up my theory tomorrow if I have time.

[Kish]

I’ve been thinking this for a few strips now. Ill type up my theory tomorrow if I have time.

I hope your theory accounts for Redcloak specifying that the Crimson Mantle only works for a goblinoid cleric.

[Viridian]

Ah, that's why he needs Durkon.

Only Nixon could go to China.

[Tvtyrant]

There is no way that Red Cloak (the goblin) will forgive all that has happened.

Wait ... will Durkon end up wearing The Red Cloak (thereby becoming the new HPoDO) once all is said and done?!?

Nope. I think I should forget that thought...

That is why we never see Durkon's father, he was clearly Red Cloak's niece.

[blademan9999]

I suppose that's why they Rich stated that they can't simply kill The Dark One anymore, because it might create a second snarl.

[Rrmcklin]

I didn't think they could create more snarls. Of course, they didn't mention color theory until now.

Why woulnd't they be able to make more Snarls? Color theory only explains why they can't get rid of the original, it doesn't change anything about how the Snarl was created.

[Rrmcklin]

I suppose that's why they Rich stated that they can't simply kill The Dark One anymore, because it might create a second snarl.

No, they couldn't kill the Dark One anymore because he after being a good for a bit he's built up a lot of soul power. Rich explained that as well.

[Basement Cat]

If you say so. I don't know what that is.

The original trilogy came out in the late 80's and it was awesome. The later works...not so much, IMO. But the original trilogy spawned the Kender i.e. a halfling-type race of universal kleptomaniacs.

OT: Thor is demonstrating an enormous amount of humility. I cannot help but wonder what Loki is like.

And given that Loki sent Hilgya to join Nale and the Linear Group way back when I wonder if we'll get a face to face between those two. Hopefully one that doesn't involve Hilgya's death.

[Pyrrhic Gades]

Knowing all this can't be good for Durkon's life-post resurection.

Roy:We have freed you from Hel. Are you back to your Thor loving-self?

Durkon: Have I told you of the good news about The Dark One?

[LadyEowyn]

All pretty much as I expected; to me, the most interesting piece of new information here is that the other gods are already aware of The Plan.

I do think there's potential for successful negotiations here. The main goal of the Dark One and of Redcloak is to create a world where goblinoids are treated equally; the point of the Plan is to gain control of the Snarl in order to be able to have a strong negotiating position. If the Dark One can obtain concessions on the status of goblinoids by agreeing to help the other gods, rather than by threatening them, that's just as advantageous for him as well as being less risky. It achives his current objective, just using a carrot rather than a stick.

Also, it's not like any of the the other times Redcloak has had the option of choosing to give up the Plan. Here, he wouldn't be being asked to accept the inequality of goblins that is built into the structure of the world; he'd be being given a similar (and better) option for addressing it. There's at least a possibility that he'd go for it.

It really is an option that allows all sides to get what they want; the main obstacle is lack of trust.