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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Jul 2013

    Default Roguish Archetype based on LoL's Ekko & Overwatch's Tracer: Timebreaker (PEACH)

    Timebreaker

    Roguish Archetype based on Ekko, from League of Legends, and Tracer, from Overwatch



    Time in a Bottle
    Starting at 3rd level, if you take the attack action on your turn, and have advantage on an attack roll against one of the targets, you can forgo the advantage for that roll, storing that advantage as Potential.
    If you have Potential, you can expend it when you make an attack roll, saving throw, or ability check. Spending your Potential gives you advantage on that roll.
    You can store up to two Potential at any time.

    Phase Dive
    Starting at level 3, you can also expend Potential to cast Misty Step.

    Recall
    Spoiler: Recall
    Show

    At level 9, you may reverse a small amount of time to save yourself from harm.
    When your hit points are reduced to 0 or less, or you would become incapacitated, you may use your reaction to trigger a Recall. When you do so, you teleport to a location you previously occupied within 120ft (or in the nearest unoccupied space, if that space is occupied) during the last round, your health reverts to its value at the beginning of that last round, and any condition or grievous wound you suffered is removed. You can regain this feature after a short or long rest.

    Time to Reflect
    Starting at level 13, when you take the Dodge action on your turn, you can also reduce your own initiative by 5, as long as your initiative is 6 or higher. If you do, you advantage on attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws until the end of your next turn. If you didn't make any ability checks or saving throws by the end of that turn, regain an expended Potential. Once you use this feature, you can't do so again for 1 minute.
    In addition, you have advantage on initiative rolls.

    Telefragging
    Starting at level 17, using your Recall and Phase Dive features impacts the space around you. When you appear in the new location, a loud, audible BAMF sounds, and each hostile creature within 10 feet of the space in which you appear must make a Constitution saving throw, taking force damage equal to your Sneak attack dice on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. The DC is 8 + your Proficiency Modifier + your Constitution Modifier.


    Spoiler: Original Notes
    Show
    • Forgone Conclusion is based on Ekko's two passive abilities. Instead of trying to finagle the concepts of % health damage when a target is under 30% health, and three hit combos into 5e, I just used ye olde "bloodied" condition and the sneak attack feature.
    • Time Consumer (...Time Consuming, Consume meeeeeeee!) is an interesting, although weak, ribbon with an fairly unused mechanic
    • Recall is quite narrow, because it needs to be. Going back in time is very powerful, so keeping it to a very small zone, and only on the player, was a requirement. Otherwise it'd be insane. I included the picture of Ekko with his "past ghost" following behind, as that's probably the best way to keep your position tracked if you're using miniatures.
    • Phase Dive give the player a Teleport-style "Dash", similar to both characters' Blink abilities
    • Telefragging is an invention of the DOOM series, in the dawn of videogames but is on character for a timebreaker - Ekko's Ultimate has this effect as well. Functionally, it's modeled on a ThunderStep at 4th level, as a AT Rogue would have access to, but backwards, as the damage doesn't happen where the PC leaves, but rather where they appear. It also encourages the player using the Phase Dive offensively, rather then defensively.

    Please let me know what you think!


    Spoiler: New notes
    Show
    10/12 Notes
    • Forgone Conclusion & Time Consumer are gone
    • Phase dive moved to 3, at request of both Garfunion & MOG. I had forgotten Misty Step, which just streamlines things. The idea of allowing the Timebreaker the tools to help them to get into trouble, and then finally giving them the ability to recalling out.
    • NEW: level 13 feature, Time to reflect, gives the player the option to shift THEMSELVES back in the initiative order for a mini-Foresight effect, which also triggers the Sneak Attack Phase Dive if needed.
    • I limited the Telefrag effect to only own class features rather than all teleportation. Instead tied it to the sneak attack die instead of a specific amount.

    10/16 Notes
    • Adjusted requirements for Phase dive. I wanted it to be only available so often, but also to give an option that allowed the subclass to skip advantage (and thus, sneak attacks) to regain the feature. Then I realized I created a "potential" mechanic for my chronomancer monastic tradition, which would basically do just that. So I just added it as a 3rd level ribbon. As the feature cannot refresh itself, the player has to collect Potential themselves.
    • Tied Time to Reflect feature to Dodge Action, and also allowed the player to transformed unused advantage on ability checks and saving throws into Potential.

    Last edited by Vogie; 2018-10-16 at 10:17 AM.
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!

    Friday Night DM for the Natural21s on Twitch on JennyBear, VOD on Youtube


    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Roguish Archetype based on LoL's Ekko & Overwatch's Tracer: Timebreaker (PEACH)

    First off, great concepts. If the Ranger has a portal hunter, then why can't the Rogue have a subclass that's faster than time?

    There are a few things that are worth mentioning, though. For the TLDR summary, the subclass, as is, is too powerful and requires too much micromanaging to maintain the easygoing flow of 5E. It just stands out too much, and even Necromancers cause less logistics mayhem. But it does give a few ideas to work with.

    I'll break it down in a few sections. First, let's tackle what needs to be addressed at each level.

    Level 3: I'm not a huge fan of critical abilities. Relying on random chance isn't something most teams can strategize around. On top of that, messing around with initiative is a logistics nightmare for DMs, due to the fact that the numbers aren't always saved after the immediate rolls, that they're sometimes written on paper that requires a bunch of erasing to fix, and sometimes the effect doesn't matter because of dramatic differences in initiative.
    If you're hardset on keeping the initiative modification, I'd change it to something like moving the creature a number of initiative steps equal to the number of dice on your sneak attacks (so if you have a 2d6, they move behind two creatures worth in the initiative order, or rather, two creatures get to cut them in line). Although, I'd just change it to be something like "when you land your sneak attack on a creature, they lose their reaction", to be around this idea that you slow them down enough to mess with their reaction time. The additional damage on a bloodied creature doesn't make TOO much sense, but I'm having difficulties thinking of an alternative. Maybe you gain sneak attack if they come after you in the initiative order; unlikely but powerful when it does work.

    Level 9: Very powerful feature, but mostly overly complicated. The issue is that it requires you to track all of the changes that happened within the last round at a specific moment, every single turn (just in case), to activate on a random event, while ignoring specific effects. Don't forget that some rounds with larger parties and inexperienced players can take up to 10 minutes. 10 minutes of conditional changes to track every round for a single ability seems like a ludicrous amount of work.
    Alternatively, I'd suggest making it so that you can anchor yourself in a specific time and location to where you're standing, saving your health but no other effects, as a bonus action at a certain location. For the next 10 minutes, if you use Uncanny Dodge, you can Recall to teleport back to this location and change your current health to match the health at the time that you recalled, and removing all conditions and spells affecting you. If you don't use Uncanny Dodge to teleport, you regain the use of this feature on a long or short rest. Otherwise, you regain this feature on a long rest.
    The difference with this is that the only thing you have to memorize is a location, a 10 minute timer, and a number; nothing else matters.

    Level 13: Cool trick, but a bit too powerful, since it completely removes the need for Disengage. I'd recommend half of your modified speed, so that Disengage has some value still. Or just make it so that when you disengage, you can instead teleport to a location that you can see within halve your movement (rounded down) as the range. I can dig that, as it opens up a lot of options. By this point, everyone's getting flight anyway, so a short-ranged teleport would work out rather well.

    Level 17: Also cool, but way too much damage. 11-22 average damage on a 5x5 grid AoE after a bonus action teleport that still lets you attack? The fact that it's also a save does add a bit more complication to the mix. I do like the emphasis it brings to melee combat by using a close-range effect and constitution saves. With my prior suggestion, it'd work out to force a melee situation to abuse often, so overall, I could see this work with some modifications. This could create a combo where you could Disengage (teleport>telefrag) with a main action in, followed by a Disengage (teleport>telefrag) with a bonus action out, and that'd be pretty cool. It'd be strong, but the action cost of it (action+bonus action) and the lack of movement (you'd move a total of 30 feet) would offset the lack of damage.

    Summarized Thoughts:
    A big concern is the fact that mobility and survivability does well when you can do stuff with it, but this class..doesn't. You can jump around a bunch, but there's not much you can really do with it other than just shooting people. It's not until level 17 when the mobility can actually be used. Up until the level 13 feature, there's not much you can do other than attack. The Recall effect could be useful in some RP situations, but it mostly incentivizes you to be reckless, by...using basic attacks? You want to feel that immediate impact of the class at level 3, where this one provides a 5% chance of being mildly relevant combined with a generic 50% chance sneak attack option. While flavorful in concept, it'd be a bit of a drag to level into this. At level 3, do you FEEL like a Time Thief?

    My biggest recommendation is to tie in a mild teleportation effect early on. Maybe when you sneak attack, you can immediately teleport a number of feet equal to the sneak attack damage, rounded down to the nearest 5, minimum of 0. Tack on an option to teleport as if you rolled maximum on your sneak attack roll as an action + bonus action so that the player gets something out of combat and so they don't have to do a sneak attack to get the extra mobility out of combat.

    It's also worth mentioning the formula that all the other Rogue subclasses follow. They all obey a trend, of sorts, and they follow this trend to offset some of the weaknesses that occur at these specific levels. Here it is, for reference:

    Level 3: Get the ability that defines this subclass. From this level, going forward, all other abilities simply improve the playstyle this feature provides for you.
    Level 9: Get an ability that's focused on RP, defense, or sustainability, prioritized in that order. This should address immediate concerns from your level 3 feature (like sustainability with the Arcane Trickster), but should be focused on RP or teamwork effects if you do not have anything that currently provides in that area.
    Level 13: Similar to level 9, but with a focus on versatility, often in combat. This is the time to open your horizons in combat, as you're likely getting bored of spamming your Attack button by this point.
    Level 17: Get a badass combat oriented ability that should be utilized roughly once per short rest. This should address concerns related to your level 3 feature (such as not enough damage, versatility, or defense), and should provide something that you need but don't already have. This is where you get creative.

    My final suggestion is to make the title something more...rogue/thief related? Time Burglar, Quantum Cheat, etc. Time-Breaker sounds almost like a Fighter more than anything, using brute force to force changes on the timeline.
    Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2018-10-11 at 04:14 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    MOG, design a darn RPG system. Seriously, the amount of ideas Iíve gleaned from your posts has been valuable. Youíre a gem of the community here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post

    5th Edition Homebrewery

    Prestige Options, changing primary attributes to open a world of new multiclassing.
    Adrenaline Surge, fitting Short Rests into combat to fix bosses/Short Rest Classes.
    Pain, using Exhaustion to make tactical martial combatants.
    Fate Sorcery, lucky winner of the 5e D&D Subclass Contest VII!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    NecromancerGuy

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    Jul 2016

    Default Re: Roguish Archetype based on LoL's Ekko & Overwatch's Tracer: Timebreaker (PEACH)

    Here is how I would designed the archetype.


    Time Consuming
    Starting at level 3, you can steal some time from your enemies. When you score a critical hit on a hostile creature, you regain the use of your reaction and the creature cannot use a reaction until the end of your next turn.

    Phase Dive
    Starting at level 3, you may cast Misty Step as a reaction. You can use this feature twice and regain all expended uses after completing a short or long rest.

    Recall
    At level 9, you may reverse a small amount of time to save yourself from harm.
    When your hit points are reduced to 0 or less, you may trigger a Recall. When you do so, you teleport to a location you previously occupied within 30ft. Upon arriving, any condition or grievous wound you suffer within the last minute is removed and you restore a number of hit points equal to twice your rogue level. You can not use this ability again until you complete a long rest.

    Wasting No Time
    At level 9, you age at a slower rate. For every 10 years that pass, your body ages only 1 year, and you are immune to being magically aged.

    Temporal Anchor
    Starting at 13 level, You may use a bonus action to place a temporal anchor at your current location. While you remain within 60ft of the anchor, you can use your Phase Dive to teleport to the anchor. Even if you are more than 30ft away. If you use this ability again, the previous anchor is removed.

    Telefragging
    At level 17, when you teleport, you can compress a large amount of temporal energy around you and release it onto foes. You use your action to teleport to a location up to 30ft that you can see. Upon arriving, a loud, audible BAMF sounds, is release in a 10ft bust around you that deals an amount of force damage equal to your sneak attack damage. Creatures within the burst must make dexterity saving throw against a DC equal to 8 + your Proficiency Modifier + your Charisma Modifier. If a creature succeeds on their saving throw, they take half as much damage. You regain this ability upon completing a short or long rest.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Jul 2013

    Default Re: Roguish Archetype based on LoL's Ekko & Overwatch's Tracer: Timebreaker (PEACH)

    Made some updates on your feedback
    • Forgone Conclusion & Time Consumer are gone
    • Phase dive moved to 3. I had forgotten Misty Step, which just streamlines things. The idea of allowing the Timebreaker the tools to help them to get into trouble, and then finally giving them the ability to recalling out.
    • NEW: level 13 feature, Time to reflect, gives the player the option to shift THEMSELVES back in the initiative order for a mini-Foresight effect, which also triggers the Sneak Attack Phase Dive if needed.
    • I limited the Telefrag effect to only own class features rather than all teleportation. Instead tied it to the sneak attack die instead of a specific amount.


    Since most fights are less than 10 rounds, going back a full minute is basically restarting the fight for that player. Not only is that bonkers, but it's also different feel than the source characters, who only rewind between 3-12 seconds.
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!

    Friday Night DM for the Natural21s on Twitch on JennyBear, VOD on Youtube


    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Roguish Archetype based on LoL's Ekko & Overwatch's Tracer: Timebreaker (PEACH)

    Decent changes. I like all of them.

    Level 3: This feature relies on advantage, which may or may not occur often, depending on your DM, and how readily available stealth is. It's kind of a loose cannon as to how often it'll come up, especially during a time when Misty Step is something you'll want to do. I'd recommend being able to use Misty Step once per short rest, and regain use when you crit/gain advantage but miss/some other effect. It's a bit step in the right direction, it's just unreliable and hard to use as-is.

    Level 9: I'm still not a huge fan of "take any place within the last round to teleport to". But this is more agreeable than the original.

    Level 13: It's a little too strong, but the main issue is that it uses a Reaction with no trigger. It'd make sense to use your reaction when your turn starts, but then you just get your reaction back as your turn starts. It also deals with positioning in your initiative, which may or may not be awkward to use or have any relevance in combat. If it's not relevant in combat, then you're basically becoming a god the entire game. How about something like this:

    "You've learned to gather quantum-time energy in the present to expel in the future. When you use your action to Dodge, you can opt to start your next turn at the end of the initiative order as a bonus action. If you do so, your speed is doubled and you have advantage on your attacks, your ability checks, and saving throws until the end of that turn. In addition, you have advantage on initiative rolls".

    This requires several things:
    The Dodge action ensures that the ability can't be "gamed" and that you have to spend a turn playing defensively to gain a massive number of buffs.
    You have to opt to be last.
    The advantage on initiative plus the requirement to drop to last place combined means that the first time you use the feature per initiative will cause a massive delay, but both powers (adv on initiative + Super Dodge) outside of the first round of using them are exceptionally powerful.
    Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2018-10-12 at 10:25 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    MOG, design a darn RPG system. Seriously, the amount of ideas Iíve gleaned from your posts has been valuable. Youíre a gem of the community here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post

    5th Edition Homebrewery

    Prestige Options, changing primary attributes to open a world of new multiclassing.
    Adrenaline Surge, fitting Short Rests into combat to fix bosses/Short Rest Classes.
    Pain, using Exhaustion to make tactical martial combatants.
    Fate Sorcery, lucky winner of the 5e D&D Subclass Contest VII!

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
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    Default Re: Roguish Archetype based on LoL's Ekko & Overwatch's Tracer: Timebreaker (PEACH)

    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Level 3: This feature relies on advantage, which may or may not occur often, depending on your DM, and how readily available stealth is. It's kind of a loose cannon as to how often it'll come up, especially during a time when Misty Step is something you'll want to do. I'd recommend being able to use Misty Step once per short rest, and regain use when you crit/gain advantage but miss/some other effect. It's a bit step in the right direction, it's just unreliable and hard to use as-is.
    I've upgraded it to use Potential, which is a sort of self-inspiration, that is collected by storing advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Level 13: It's a little too strong, but the main issue is that it uses a Reaction with no trigger. It'd make sense to use your reaction when your turn starts, but then you just get your reaction back as your turn starts. It also deals with positioning in your initiative, which may or may not be awkward to use or have any relevance in combat. If it's not relevant in combat, then you're basically becoming a god the entire game.
    I've taken your advice, and tied it to the Dodge action, making Time to Reflect into a super-dodge. Instead of having advantage on just Dexterity saving throws, you'll have advantage on all attack rolls, ability checks, and saving throws. I've also added a rider that it can only be used when your initiative is above 6, and can only be used once a minute... which makes it available every encounter, but not multiple times per encounter (unless you have REALLY LONG encounters)

    If there are no ability checks or saving throws used, you also retain some of that unused advantage as potential. This will also allow you to effectively refresh some of your potential without missing sneak attacks.
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!

    Friday Night DM for the Natural21s on Twitch on JennyBear, VOD on Youtube


    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Roguish Archetype based on LoL's Ekko & Overwatch's Tracer: Timebreaker (PEACH)

    Level 3: A bit unreliable, honestly, as it still relies on advantage which is something determined by the DM, but IT IS SO FRIGGIN COOL I DON'T EVEN CARE. I love it. A big issue I see is that you can blind a rat in a bag, attack it, and regain potential. Or have your Barbarian cover his eyes as you punch him for 1 damage. There's a number of issues with permanent on-hit gains, similar to the situation with the UA Mystic Soul Knife regaining health by killing a bunch of bunnies in a sack.

    My recommendation is by maybe having it so that Potential regenerates on a short rest and can add your sneak attack bonus to a saving throw or used for Misty Step as a reaction/bonus action, and you can also choose to not add your sneak attack bonus to an attack to regain Potential as a reaction. You can have up to 2 Potential at a time (still). The regeneration effects would make it so that gaming it wouldn't be necessary.



    Level 13: Not bad. I'm not sure how balanced the overall ability is to have advantage on everything, TBH. I'm still not in favor of the -5 to initiative, but there are much worse things it could be. Overall, a decent idea, though.

    Alternatively, you could do something like "Dodge Action -> Cast Haste on yourself", which would be very flavorful. Your call.

    Lastly, I thought of another option. Instead of the level 17 feature, why not just change it so that instead of casting Misty Step, you may choose to instead cast Thunder Step. Also, if you spend 2 Potential, you can cast Far Step. You can treat Constitution as your spellcasting modifier for these spells.
    Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2018-10-16 at 01:32 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    MOG, design a darn RPG system. Seriously, the amount of ideas Iíve gleaned from your posts has been valuable. Youíre a gem of the community here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post

    5th Edition Homebrewery

    Prestige Options, changing primary attributes to open a world of new multiclassing.
    Adrenaline Surge, fitting Short Rests into combat to fix bosses/Short Rest Classes.
    Pain, using Exhaustion to make tactical martial combatants.
    Fate Sorcery, lucky winner of the 5e D&D Subclass Contest VII!

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