Freefall 3: Death Ray Byproducts

[Rockphed]

Jean is a terraformed planet. That's why human-digestible plants are still rare; they're still making the environment favorable to an Earth-like ecosystem. And why insects are the primary source of protein (they don't have the grazing land for traditional 'cattle' species)

But they do have deer that are abundant enough that nobody completely cared that one got killed and eaten by a random passerby.

[sihnfahl]

But they do have deer that are abundant enough that nobody completely cared that one got killed and eaten by a random passerby.

The folks at the Golden Trough thought they were hallucinating. And Florence has plausible deniability as it was 'road kill'. Waste not, want not.

[tyckspoon]

Jean is a terraformed planet. That's why human-digestible plants are still rare; they're still making the environment favorable to an Earth-like ecosystem. And why insects are the primary source of protein (they don't have the grazing land for traditional 'cattle' species)

And Jean presumably had a limited surface water supply; that's why they were dropping ice comets (remember the flash flood incident?)

We DO know they're not post-scarcity; it's just that they have access to more resources than the terrestrial. When you can mine an asteroid field, the limitation is reaction mass, how much life support you need to carry, and how to transfer said asteroids to ground safely.

Earth/the home solar system may be closer to a post-scarcity situation (as they presumably have a mature robotic workforce and fairly easy access to all the resources of the solar system) but without sufficiently magical FTL travel you will still have situations of scarcity elsewhere - since you can't ship resources instantly to wherever you want them, you still have to resolve questions of what gets allocated where and when. So capitalism and the market because that's what the people responsible for sending colonists and setting up the new planets are used to operating in.

[Rockphed]

Earth/the home solar system may be closer to a post-scarcity situation (as they presumably have a mature robotic workforce and fairly easy access to all the resources of the solar system) but without sufficiently magical FTL travel you will still have situations of scarcity elsewhere - since you can't ship resources instantly to wherever you want them, you still have to resolve questions of what gets allocated where and when. So capitalism and the market because that's what the people responsible for sending colonists and setting up the new planets are used to operating in.

It isn't covered much, but Bowman's brain design was used on robots only on Jean. I don't know why Bowman was along with the early settlers (though there being some absurd number of people named Bowman on Jean is mentioned, so maybe Jean was specifically settled as a retirement home for the last murderchimp). Based on everything, I think Florence is about 30 and Jean was settled 20 years ago (though it was settled at least partially by slow ship), so maybe Bowman was packed on the ship right after he got the wolves released.

[Jasdoif]

I don't think we're supposed to agree with DeMorel. He's been shown as shortsighted and greedy.

I think we're supposed to understand that the station has an issue for which there is no obvious easy answer. It's easy to keep everyone happy when there's more than enough to go around, and in an absence of an alternative proposal it's a bit difficult to tell how shortsighted he actually is (how far he's playing it safe suggests a lack of entrepreneurial spirit more than anything else). Mr. Hillman isn't there because he believes the problem is imaginary, he's there because of how Mr. De Morel's fixation on the big picture impacts his own piece of the puzzle.

[WanderingMist]

Anyone still following Freefall?
I'm still enjoying it, but I have about the same understanding of economics as Rover17. I'll be interested to see where DeMorel goes with this argument, and whether I can spot any obvious flaws. The way Mark has chosen to illustrate it is a lot of fun, though.

Yep. Though sometimes I'll forget to check it for a week or two. I'd love to see it animated, but that's a long way from ever happening.

[Radar]

I have to say, Sam has made a perfect lead-in to sweep the rug from under the manager.

[theangelJean]

Hmm. Now I have to wonder if someone at the bomb factory is qualified to take over DeMorel's job.

The bomb factory has been silent for ages, but the robots are still running. Is there someone managing their budget?

Although I'm guessing they're not currently being paid as employees.

[sihnfahl]

Hmm. Now I have to wonder if someone at the bomb factory is qualified to take over DeMorel's job.

Anything would be better than DeMorel. But, seriously, it was an AI managed facility. Presumably that would include budgeting, etc.

The bomb factory has been silent for ages, but the robots are still running. Is there someone managing their budget?

The way I see it, they don't need a budget at the moment. The robots can presumably mine, refine and produce whatever they need. Circuits? Machined replacement parts? Batteries? Reactors?

From the original standpoint of the factory, it'd be cheaper to produce all of that on-site than expend resources transferring finished products to the factory, then ship completed bombs out.

Nobody's been checking on them and have been leaving them to their own devices.

[Fyraltari]

Anything would be better than DeMorel.

Mr. Kornada.

[sihnfahl]

Mr. Kornada.

At this point in the story, yes. He's been neutered as far as controlling robots is concerned.

Before that, he shuffled off 'problems' to subordinates to fix. With the right advisor in place...

Oh, and on the planet, his greatest threat of him screwing up was to be moved to another department.

At the station? "I'm sorry sir, but if we do that, you'll die from explosive decompression. Rather messy. Expensive to clean up."

[WanderingMist]

Anything would be better than DeMorel.

Labor guy outright said Mr. DeMorel used to be a good manager. But the station is being scammed out of money and the way he's trying to fix it is incorrect because he doesn't understand the real problem.

[sihnfahl]

Labor guy outright said Mr. DeMorel used to be a good manager. But the station is being scammed out of money and the way he's trying to fix it is incorrect because he doesn't understand the real problem.

He also said there was a guy who knew the station and where cuts could be made safely under the reduced income regime. DeMorel fired him.

And that was also an observation. 'Used to'. A good manager gets people together to get the best picture of the situation possible. He'd KNOW what the problems are if he didn't insist on doing it all himself, and coming up with his OWN plan (namely, trick robots into fixing the station for free when the cuts didn't do the things he wanted).

[Rockphed]

He also said there was a guy who knew the station and where cuts could be made safely under the reduced income regime. DeMorel fired him.

And that was also an observation. 'Used to'. A good manager gets people together to get the best picture of the situation possible. He'd KNOW what the problems are if he didn't insist on doing it all himself, and coming up with his OWN plan (namely, trick robots into fixing the station for free when the cuts didn't do the things he wanted).

It was lucky for him that it happened while the Savage Chicken was there. I don't think anyone else would have made sure the robots arrived in one piece.

[WanderingMist]

He also said there was a guy who knew the station and where cuts could be made safely under the reduced income regime. DeMorel fired him.

And that was also an observation. 'Used to'. A good manager gets people together to get the best picture of the situation possible. He'd KNOW what the problems are if he didn't insist on doing it all himself, and coming up with his OWN plan (namely, trick robots into fixing the station for free when the cuts didn't do the things he wanted).

Which was part of the wrong way of fixing things. And again, DeMorel has only recently become like this. Saying he's worse than Kornada is blatant character assassination, as Kornada actively stopped Clippy from being effective at his job by refusing to allow him to build redundancy into his plan, while DeMorel merely believes his way is best and thinks the workers will eventually come around.

This debate isn't about who's right and who's wrong. It's about balancing labor with management in a good way.

[Fyraltari]

"makes a difference when it's your job that's on line".

Wouldn't if society wasn't organized in such a way that labor that humans who don't enjoy working are required to do so to reap its benefits even though there are plenty of robots who would enjoy doing the work.

[sihnfahl]

Saying he's worse than Kornada is blatant character assassination, as Kornada actively stopped Clippy from being effective at his job by refusing to allow him to build redundancy into his plan, while DeMorel merely believes his way is best and thinks the workers will eventually come around.

I was referring to Right Now. As I said, Kornada is currently neutered. He can't be up to shenanigans like Morel is, because everyone's eyes would be on him for any malfeasance. So there would be a LOT of folks involved like there normally would be.

DeMorel has nobody watching over him, nor curbing his shortsightedness.

And I'm still amused that he's 'Mushroom'.

[lord_khaine]

It is a bit easier to get some shade of sympathy for Morel, now we learn that the station isnt actually sustainable as it is.

[PhantomFox]

Small detail. Demorel hasn't touched his food sine he got it. Hillman has been slowly eating what he got over time.

[sihnfahl]

It is a bit easier to get some shade of sympathy for Morel, now we learn that the station isnt actually sustainable as it is.

I think we already knew that? Everything was pointing to a station that was declining after its primary function was completed, and that management was cutting in the worst ways possible to compensate.

[tyckspoon]

I think we already knew that? Everything was pointing to a station that was declining after its primary function was completed, and that management was cutting in the worst ways possible to compensate.

This is my memory, yeah; very strongly implied although I think not previously explicitly stated? And if not explicitly stated it's another example of how DeMorel is in over his head here - he's not communicating to his labor pool/residents why he feels he needs to do what he's doing. The station is no longer required in its current configuration and income doesn't meet expenses - DeMorel is trying to cut costs to match, but that isn't a solution, it just makes things take longer to break down (and may mean they no longer have the resources to implement a solution once he is forced to admit that he -can't- just cost-cut his way out of it.) DeMorel is also trying to cut those costs in short sighted ways, which is a separate problem that is exacerbating the other one.

The station needs to either find a new income source, or it needs to be shut down/reduced in scope to meet its actual income and purpose (which would appear to be 'supply layover for people going to some place more interesting.') That will probably involve laying off a lot of the existing staff/crew, which I can get why that would appear to be untenable - this station isn't just a work site for them, it's their home, and removing them from the job would also effectively be evicting them from their residences.. but the station cannot continue to maintain a full time crew of operators/maintenance people/etc for facilities that nobody is currently using nor will be using in any foreseeable future. Again, this is something DeMorel *knows* and the people living on the station probably understand even if they don't have the explicit numbers in front of them.. they just don't see a better alternative (but hiring random people from visiting ships into your maintenance crew certainly isn't helping the budget.)

[sihnfahl]

very strongly implied although I think not previously explicitly stated?

Yeah, very implied. The folks downstream from DeMorel only saw the impact of his decision, not the baseline reasons (constant budget deficits he was trying to reverse). And DeMorel wouldn't outright say it in panel previously, as nobody had the ability to bring him to the table.

The station needs to either find a new income source, or it needs to be shut down/reduced in scope to meet its actual income and purpose (which would appear to be 'supply layover for people going to some place more interesting.')

Right now, it's just been miners, folks who're living on the absolute fringe (colonists who ended up not wanting to be part of the colony), and robotic installations.

We've gotten to the Old Mall issue. The anchor stores are gone, but a few of the smaller storefronts between them are still operating. How do you burden the smaller storefronts with the inevitable costs of maintaining empty spaces next to each storefront on top of their own? And what do you do with the empty, but still in need of some basic maintenance, anchor store spaces?

[lord_khaine]

I think we already knew that? Everything was pointing to a station that was declining after its primary function was completed, and that management was cutting in the worst ways possible to compensate.

Possibly not that it was quite this drastic.

Or well perhaps more that all the drastic cutting Morel had done was not due to incompetence, but necessity.
Since as such things are currently running on a short grace period, before everything gets even less profitable.

[Jasdoif]

This is my memory, yeah; very strongly implied although I think not previously explicitly stated? And if not explicitly stated it's another example of how DeMorel is in over his head here - he's not communicating to his labor pool/residents why he feels he needs to do what he's doing. The station is no longer required in its current configuration and income doesn't meet expenses - DeMorel is trying to cut costs to match, but that isn't a solution, it just makes things take longer to break down (and may mean they no longer have the resources to implement a solution once he is forced to admit that he -can't- just cost-cut his way out of it.) DeMorel is also trying to cut those costs in short sighted ways, which is a separate problem that is exacerbating the other one.

It's been a while, but it's been explicitly stated...but there was definitely a communication failure going on about the extent of it; Mr. Hillman said unit one is abandoned, while Mr. De Morel says unit one is being cannibalized.

And yes, Mr. De Morel is clearly trying to resolve this purely by numbers, unaware of how his cuts are impacting processes and leading to costly perverse incentives.

(but hiring random people from visiting ships into your maintenance crew certainly isn't helping the budget.)

I think it could explain a few things. For a while I was wondering how, if labor costs are "small", Mr. De Morel was expecting free robot labor to solve any problems...but if there's budgetary room/discretion for hiring technicians even after lowering the maintenance complement, I have to imagine there's a minimum level of labor he needs/wants to maintain; and if that's the case then he sees robots as additional labor for resolving the massive backlog.

[sihnfahl]

It's been a while, but it's been explicitly stated...but there was definitely a communication failure going on about the extent of it; Mr. Hillman said unit one is abandoned, while Mr. De Morel says unit one is being cannibalized.

Both say the same thing in the end, though. Hillman points out that shuttering Unit One solved their problems of spare parts for a while.

Which intimates several things. One, they've been having trouble affording spare parts. Second, that their only solution was to cannibalize unit one to keep two and three running. And three, since the Savage Chicken wasn't bringing replacement parts for what they cannibalized, the station didn't have the funds to buy replacements. So if those parts break now, they better have someone who's able to fix it on station pretty quick or ...

[Jasdoif]

It's been a while, but it's been explicitly stated...but there was definitely a communication failure going on about the extent of it; Mr. Hillman said unit one is abandoned, while Mr. De Morel says unit one is being cannibalized.

Both say the same thing in the end, though. Hillman points out that shuttering Unit One solved their problems of spare parts for a while.

I don't think that means they're on the same page, though. Why would Mr. Hillman not know things were as bad as he already said they were?

Either Mr. De Morel continued stripping unit one after Mr. Hillman thought it had stopped, and/or Mr. De Morel significantly misrepresented/overstated the station's profitability; neither of which suggest good communication.

[sihnfahl]

Neither of which suggest good communication.

We already knew DeMorel wasn't communicating at all about the stations' full situation. As far as we know, Hillman and the others were being told the finances were okay, but because of the busy-ness of the planet, and the redirection of the majority of in-system transportation, getting everything they needed was just going slow, so just make things last until the "regular trips" between the station and the planet resume.

Which kind of brings into other communication issues. Hillman and the other 'heads' had the pieces, but they never got together, apparently, to bring them all together. Sam did it in apparently a few days, just asking regular questions of the stations' inhabitants and looking at what the folks on station would have seen already. So I dunno on that one.

[lord_khaine]

The numbers does add badly up.
I cant really see how the robots would fix things, if the station already cant afford to pay the staff.

[sihnfahl]

I cant really see how the robots would fix things, if the station already cant afford to pay the staff.

I suppose it's because DeMorel also assumes that the robots will not pay for parts, while human ones will insist the human suppliers get paid.

They'll just manufacture the necessary stuff for free. Or even take pieces out of 'decommissioning' robots.

Not to mention they could ship more stuff (meaning less expenses) if the supply flights don't have to carry as much food, water, air...

[lord_khaine]

I find it more likely to be an author oversight.

That aside. I do like the Union guy for being the one to accept station closure as a reality. Clearly the moral one.
Morel meanwhile seemingly has figured out Sam was plotting stuff for a while now. Seems to be the smart one.

And while it might seem like Sam was trolling them, then obviously this conversation was required.
They had to regain common ground if they are to work together on the future station plans Sam has.