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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Barbarian: Path of the Wildcaster, Homebrew Subclass Design

    I have noticed that there are some magical barbarians, but no spellcasting ones. I can see why due to rage cancelling it out, but I wanted to try and make one anyway. I like what I came up with, I think it is one of my better designed subclasses, hence why it is the first one I'm posting. However, I'm not totally satisfied with it and feel it could use some improvement. I also don't know what to call the subclass. My worlds actually have little magic or spells, but I have another energy source that basically takes the place of it. That is mostly beside the point, but it would mean that for myself I would have to come up with another name then would be used for a magical world. I for the sake of simplicity, I will call them here what they would be in a magical world. Anyway, here is the class so far.

    LEVEL 3

    Spellcasting: This barbarian may cast ranger spells. Wisdom is your spellcasting modifier. Here is the table for spells known and spell slots.

    Barbarian Level: Spells known; lv 1 spells slots | lv 2 spells slots | etc...
    lv 03. 2; 2 | 0 | 0 | 0
    lv 04. 2; 3 | 0 | 0 | 0
    lv 05. 3; 3 | 0 | 0 | 0
    lv 06. 3; 3 | 0 | 0 | 0
    lv 07. 3; 4 | 2 | 0 | 0
    lv 08. 4; 4 | 2 | 0 | 0
    lv 09. 4; 4 | 2 | 0 | 0
    lv 10. 5; 4 | 3 | 0 | 0
    lv 11. 5; 4 | 3 | 0 | 0
    lv 12. 5; 4 | 3 | 0 | 0
    lv 13. 6; 4 | 3 | 2 | 0
    lv 14. 6; 4 | 3 | 2 | 0
    lv 15. 7; 3 | 3 | 2 | 0
    lv 16. 7; 4 | 3 | 3 | 0
    lv 17. 7; 4 | 3 | 3 | 0
    lv 18. 8; 4 | 3 | 3 | 0
    lv 19. 8; 4 | 3 | 3 | 1
    lv 20. 9; 4 | 3 | 3 | 1

    Focused Rage: You may still concentrate on spells while raging, but you must make a DC 10 concentration check at the end of each turn to maintain the concentration.

    LEVEL 6

    Unshakable Concentration: You have advantage on all concentration saving throws/checks(Now sure which its called).

    Magical Aggression: Your weapon attacks also count as magical when raging.

    LEVEL 10

    Calculated Rage: Raging no longer imposes penalties to casting or concentrating on spells.

    Forceful Casting: When raging, all spells will be cast at one level higher then the spell slots you spent on them.

    LEVEL 14

    Spell Resistance: You advantage on all saves against spells, and while raging you have resistance to all damage dealt by spells.

    Other Options under consideration

    While Raging your weapons count as magical and pick from having +1 to hit and damage or dealing +1d4 damage. If you pick the second option choose from one of the following damage types: You may pick the type from, fire damage for your firey wrath, cold damage for your cold hatred, poison damage for you toxic glare, lightning damage for you electrical frenzy, or thunder damage for your thunderous roar. (I couldn't think of anything for corrosive acid to go with so I decided not to include it). Or maybe we could let this do 1d4 necrotic damage to synergyze with the below ability, but I don't like the idea.

    When raging and you deal necrotic damage (from hunter's mark for example) you heal HP equal to (or maybe 1/2 of)the necrotic damage dealt.

    Changing the order in which you get some abilities, like not getting focuses rage until later than 3rd level, possibly calculated rage can be improved to also remove the heavy armor requirement, or nerfed a bit to still require you to make concentration checks.

    Advantage vs spells only for when raging.

    And some other things, but I will stop here for now.

    I wanted too see what others think of the class, how they think I should change it, and also what ideas they might come up with. I look forward to your feedback. (If I have this on the forum, I obviously don't care if other people use it in whatever way they want).
    Last edited by Maxidion; 2019-08-02 at 05:38 PM. Reason: Error fixes, changing spells known, updating.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    ZenBear's Avatar

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    The Rage Mage is an Archetype many have attempted, myself included. The basic gist is to remove the spellcasting restriction on rages, or even make it so that you can only cast spells while raging. I like what you’ve got so far. Using the Ranger spell list makes sense. I would follow the Arcane Trickster/Eldritch Knight spell slot progression since they’re all 1/3 casters. I’ve had this idea on the back burner while I work on other homebrew, but I might move it up the priority list now that you’ve inspired me.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    Quote Originally Posted by ZenBear View Post
    The Rage Mage is an Archetype many have attempted, myself included. The basic gist is to remove the spellcasting restriction on rages, or even make it so that you can only cast spells while raging. I like what you’ve got so far. Using the Ranger spell list makes sense. I would follow the Arcane Trickster/Eldritch Knight spell slot progression since they’re all 1/3 casters. I’ve had this idea on the back burner while I work on other homebrew, but I might move it up the priority list now that you’ve inspired me.
    Thank you. The spell slot progression is in fact identical to the Arcane Trickster/Eldritch Knight, just with less known spells. I thought people would find it easier to see the slot progression the be told to look for something else it would be identical to. I also didn't want this barbarian knowing as spells many as the ranger, and the others know more than the ranger.


    P.S. If/When you make that subclass, I would like to see it.
    Last edited by Maxidion; 2019-07-04 at 12:49 PM.

  4. - Top - End - #4
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    First off, you should probably get a more specific theme than "barbarian with magic." Eldritch Knights generally use magic to supplement their defense and dealing with mobs of enemies, while arcane tricksters typically use magic to supplement deceiving foes. For my crack at the concept, I went with a "Path of the Seer," which is themed around glimpsing the future and having high utility (without requiring a high spellcasting stat). For your subclass, I suggest figuring out what you want the barbarian using spells for. Obviously this includes battlefield buffs, but you might want to look what sort of buffs.

    In helping tie the subclass'es spells to that theme, 1/3 casters are typically limited to two schools of magic for nine of their thirteen spells. Eldritch Knights have Abjuration and Evocation magic, and Arcane Tricksters have Enchantment and Illusion spells. I went with Divination and transmutation, as both help the Seer pull of stunts other barbarians can't (such as chasing down enemies with Expeditions Retreat/Charge, Targeting foes better with See Invisibility, and Flying). Comparing their power to the ranger is also a bit of a red herring, given how weak the class is.

    Taking spells from the ranger isn't a bad choice, but I worry about differentiating the two. Most players using your subclass would probably want to grab Hunter's Mark, and 1/3 casting isn't much less than 1/2 casting. However, this depends mostly on the actual theme you go for. Even when you can cast without issue, 1/3 spellcasting is very weak. You'll definitely want to add some other abilities beside spell slots and casting while raging. Which is why I keep recommending some theme to tie the subclass together.

    As a minor note, in 5th edition concentration checks are straight up replaced with constitution saving throws. The War Caster feat also already grants advantage on Con saves to maintain concentration.

    And to prevent multiclassing abuse the ability to ragecast should probably be limited to high level barbarians.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    First off, you should probably get a more specific theme than "barbarian with magic." Eldritch Knights generally use magic to supplement their defense and dealing with mobs of enemies, while arcane tricksters typically use magic to supplement deceiving foes. For my crack at the concept, I went with a "Path of the Seer," which is themed around glimpsing the future and having high utility (without requiring a high spellcasting stat). For your subclass, I suggest figuring out what you want the barbarian using spells for. Obviously this includes battlefield buffs, but you might want to look what sort of buffs.

    In helping tie the subclass'es spells to that theme, 1/3 casters are typically limited to two schools of magic for nine of their thirteen spells. Eldritch Knights have Abjuration and Evocation magic, and Arcane Tricksters have Enchantment and Illusion spells. I went with Divination and transmutation, as both help the Seer pull of stunts other barbarians can't (such as chasing down enemies with Expeditions Retreat/Charge, Targeting foes better with See Invisibility, and Flying). Comparing their power to the ranger is also a bit of a red herring, given how weak the class is.

    Taking spells from the ranger isn't a bad choice, but I worry about differentiating the two. Most players using your subclass would probably want to grab Hunter's Mark, and 1/3 casting isn't much less than 1/2 casting. However, this depends mostly on the actual theme you go for. Even when you can cast without issue, 1/3 spellcasting is very weak. You'll definitely want to add some other abilities beside spell slots and casting while raging. Which is why I keep recommending some theme to tie the subclass together.

    As a minor note, in 5th edition concentration checks are straight up replaced with constitution saving throws. The War Caster feat also already grants advantage on Con saves to maintain concentration.

    And to prevent multiclassing abuse the ability to ragecast should probably be limited to high level barbarians.
    I do have a theme, though I will admit it is broad. I wanted them to have natural power, but druid didn't quite fit with what I was going for, Ranger on the other hand is pretty much perfect. I hadn't thought about it as deeply as you mentioned, so I will do that. However, I was well aware of the limitations on the Eldritch Knight and the Arcane Trickster had. I thought that several facts balanced this out. 1. Their are no cantrips in the Ranger's spells list. 2. I have this barbarian know less spells than any of those subclasses or the ranger. 3. It seems to me that the Ranger's spells list is already pretty limited. I know it isn't that limited, but I wanted a balance between being limited and having a relatively wide array of options (which was one of my goals for this subclass), I felt that the ranger hit that. If you still think that this is too much, we can work on fixing the problem, but limiting to any two schools would limit it more than I prefer.

    The theme for this subclass was supposed to be a barbarian who spent a lot of time in the wild, but not enough to gain features like favored terrain, and learned to use natural power to cast spells. I kind of wanted what type of spells they took to be up to the player, and I wanted Hunter's Mark to be one the primary options. After that, whether they used their power to speak to animals, empower their attacks, control the battlefield, see what nature sees, that was meant to be optional and non-restrictive. Sorry I'm pretty much repeating myself in different words, but one of my primary goals for this class was for it not to be restricted by schools of magic. Pretty much everything I felt didn't fit with this subclass is not in the ranger spells.

    "Deep Breaths" I actually have never felt the Ranger to be a weak class, just one with a little bit diverted from direct combat than most classes have. I have more to say that would be less negative that what I previously said, but I don't have time to say more at the moment. I skimmed your Seer barbarian and the related post, seems interesting. I will give it a more thorough read-through in the future.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Orc in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    I did this.

    It uses a ramping up mechanic, when you start raging and at the beginning of your turn while raging you get Eldritch Might points. You spend them to cast spells. You can bank them to upcast or cast weaker spells right away.

    I've seen it playtested through 6. There's some interesting possibilities and the ability to upcast early drives encounters to a close. I don't think it compares to the Zealot, but I think it's on par with the Eldritch Knight. I think there's a lot of potential synergy with Bladepact Warlocks.

    Rage Mage Barbarian Path
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    The Rage Mage is a Barbarian that acquires an ability to call upon arcane powers. As their Rage builds they can expel these energies in a manner not unlike sorcerers raining elemental woe, willing enemies to death, or altering the field of battle. Magic infuses their bodies and their weapons when they enter a rage, eventually they become so suffused that their bodies crackle with a deadly arcane power that destroys any that dare touch them.

    Eldritch Insights
    Beginning at 3rd level after choosing this path, you gain proficiency in the Arcana skill as well as the Spellcasting feature and a limited number of spells known.

    You learn the Eldritch Blast Cantrip and one other from the Rage Mage list. Charisma is your Spellcasting Ability for your spells. You learn two 1st level spells from the Rage Mage list. You learn 1 additional spell at each odd level thereafter.

    Each time you gain a barbarian level you can swap out a spell you know for a new spell of any level you can cast. You gain access to higher level spells at 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th level.

    Arcane Rage
    Beginning when you select this Path at 3rd level your rage draws in ambient arcane energies to suffuse your body. These energies generate a shimmering aura that grants you Resistance to Force and Psychic damage and makes your attacks magical. The aura illuminates like a torch but you can suppress this light at will. Your Rage also gradually coalesces into Eldritch Might, accelerating as you suffer or inflict injury.

    You acquire a point of Eldritch Might at the start of each of your turns while raging. You acquire 1 point of Eldritch Might the first time you deal damage or are damaged before the beginning of your next turn.

    While raging you can spend Eldritch Might to cast spells you know from the Rage Mage list. You do not require material or Somatic components to cast these spells. If a spell has an increased effect when cast with a higher level slot, you can generate that effect by spending the corresponding amount of Eldritch Might. If the spell has a duration longer than instant, it ends when your Rage ends. If a spell requires concentration you may only have one such spell active at a time while raging.

    Each time a spell you cast while raging deals damage, you add your Rage Bonus to the damage.

    Eldritch Might Costs
    Cantrip - 1 Eldritch Might
    1st level- 2 Eldritch Might
    2nd level- 3 Eldritch Might
    3rd level- 5 Eldritch Might
    4th level- 6 Eldritch Might
    5th level- 7 Eldritch Might

    A Taste for Magic
    At 6th level and beyond you become attuned to magical energies in a way few others are and can cast Detect Magic at will. Additionally you can attempt to consume a spell as its being cast or an ongoing effect.

    When you are the target of a spell that affects only you or encounter an ongoing magical effect, you can make a Constitution saving throw against the spell’s save DC as a reaction. On a success a cast spell has no effect and an ongoing effect is affected as Dispel Magic or Remove Curse as appropriate. In either case you gain an amount of Eldritch Might equal to the level of the slot used to cast it. If you are not raging when you use this feature you can enter a rage as part of the reaction otherwise the Eldritch Might is lost. You must complete a short rest before using this feature again.

    Eldritch Fury
    At level 10 you can spend 1 point of Eldritch Might to cast a Cantrip as a bonus action, you must complete a short rest before using this feature again.

    While Raging you now gain 2 points of Eldritch Might the first time you deal or suffer damage before the beginning of your next turn.

    Cauldron of Power
    At 14th level you are like a witch’s cauldron, perpetually bubbling with magic power. At the end of each rest you have 2 points of Eldritch Might. Additionally you can retain up to 2 points of unspent Eldritch Might when your rage ends.

    Rage Mage Spell List
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    Cantrips
    Druidcraft
    Poison Spray
    Shillelagh
    Acid Splash
    Chill Touch
    Dancing Lights
    Truestrike
    Eldritch Blast
    Lightning Lure
    Booming Blade
    Green Flame Blade

    1st Level
    Jump
    Heroism
    Entangle
    Color Spray
    Burning Hands
    Magic Missile
    Ray of Sickness
    Thunderwave
    Arms of Hadar
    Armor of Agathys
    Zephyr Strike

    2nd Level
    Aganazzar’s Scorcher
    Enhance Ability
    Flame Blade
    Hold Person
    Alter Self
    Shadow Blade
    Enlarge/Reduce
    Misty Step
    Phantasmal Force
    Scorching Ray
    Shatter
    Web
    Melf's Acid Arrow

    3rd Level
    Protection from Energy
    Fear
    Fireball
    Fly
    Haste
    Lightning Bolt
    Slow
    Stinking Cloud
    Vampiric Touch
    Thunderstep
    Hunger of Hadar

    4th Level
    Blight
    Freedom of Movement
    Wall of Fire
    Polymorph
    Greater Invisibility
    Ice Storm

    5th Level
    Wall of Stone
    Cloudkill
    Cone of Cold
    Hold Monster
    Bigby's Hand
    Steel Wind Strike
    Last edited by BerzerkerUnit; 2019-07-05 at 09:32 AM.

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Barbarian in the Playground
     
    Breccia's Avatar

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    It looks balanced to me.

    I would suggest, however, that the "your attacks count as magic" is too weak, because by 6th level they probably have a magic weapon anyhow. Problem is, I can't think of an appropriate parallel that fits. Maybe something like "you can throw any weapon range 20/60 and it returns to you"?

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    What's the DC of the concentration check at the end of a turn spent raging? Requiring concentration checks at all goes against the idea of Reckless Attacking since you're granting creatures advantage to hit you, ideally for the purpose of encouraging them to attack you (who is resistant to damage and has a ton of hp) rather than allies.

    Basically, unless your subclass is intended to really subvert an expectation, it shouldn't discourage you from taking advantage of the core features.

    If you're taking a spell casting subclass, you want spells to supplement being a barbarian, but if I have to worry that raging will have me wasting spell slots and encourage me to play more conservatively (avoiding melee, casting fewer spells), that's no bueno.

  9. - Top - End - #9
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    I did this.
    I like this, it is going for a completely different vibe then I am though. I would use it if I wanted and Eldritch barbarian. My subclass, which still needs a name, is going for more of a wilderness natural power type of thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Breccia View Post
    It looks balanced to me.

    I would suggest, however, that the "your attacks count as magic" is too weak, because by 6th level they probably have a magic weapon anyhow. Problem is, I can't think of an appropriate parallel that fits. Maybe something like "you can throw any weapon range 20/60 and it returns to you"?
    Yes, this is one of my problems. I still think it is useful, because is they have multiple weapons, say a +1 greataxe, and a bunch of javelins, it will work on their javelins. It would also work when they have lost their weapons and have to fight unarmed or with improvised or other weapons. This is where I was considering putting things like the +1d4 elemental damage, or the drain life with necrotic damage perks. I specifically want this barbarian to use their power differently than the Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster and Hexblade Warlack, and the weapons returning feels too much like is in the theme of the Eldritch Knight and the Hexblade Warlock. Thank you for the idea though. I might consider something like you can throw any weapon up to 60 ft. with no disadvantage. Still doesn't quite fit though.

    I addition I must admit that even with the other penalties, being able to cast from the Ranger's entire spell list is a bit powerful, so having some of the other buffs be on the weaker side isn't a huge deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    What's the DC of the concentration check at the end of a turn spent raging? Requiring concentration checks at all goes against the idea of Reckless Attacking since you're granting creatures advantage to hit you, ideally for the purpose of encouraging them to attack you (who is resistant to damage and has a ton of hp) rather than allies.

    Basically, unless your subclass is intended to really subvert an expectation, it shouldn't discourage you from taking advantage of the core features.

    If you're taking a spell casting subclass, you want spells to supplement being a barbarian, but if I have to worry that raging will have me wasting spell slots and encourage me to play more conservatively (avoiding melee, casting fewer spells), that's no bueno.
    My understanding of concentration checks is that they all have a DC of 10, I see no reason to change this. This subclass is meant to be played differently than the normal barbarian. Early on your pretty much supposed to be choosing whether you want to use spells, or rage and/or reckless. However, barbarians are proficient in Con saves, which apparently applies to concentration checks (even though they strangely use different roll terms (checks/saves)), once they have advantage on their concentration checks, they will very rarely fail these checks.

    Later on, raging actually makes your spells better, with forceful casting and losing the penalties raging brings to it. As far as far using the spells to supplement being a barbarian, even though it seems your stating something obvious, I'm still missing it. Could please delve deeper into the explanation and maybe give an example or two?

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    Taking spells from the ranger isn't a bad choice, but I worry about differentiating the two. Most players using your subclass would probably want to grab Hunter's Mark, and 1/3 casting isn't much less than 1/2 casting. However, this depends mostly on the actual theme you go for. Even when you can cast without issue, 1/3 spellcasting is very weak. You'll definitely want to add some other abilities beside spell slots and casting while raging. Which is why I keep recommending some theme to tie the subclass together.

    As a minor note, in 5th edition concentration checks are straight up replaced with constitution saving throws. The War Caster feat also already grants advantage on Con saves to maintain concentration.

    And to prevent multiclassing abuse the ability to ragecast should probably be limited to high level barbarians.
    I see your point about differentiating the two classes, and I agree to a point. The rangers do have a unique spells list, but they also have quite a bit of interesting non-spell abilities (especially if they don't pick the beast master subclass, that is the ranger's weakest point in my opinion). While I did intend for this to be a pretty rangery barbarian I agree they should be separated a little more, I'm just not sure how.

    I considered giving the barbarian double proficiency in concentration checks instead of advantage, but that would utterly guarantee success on every roll without too much effort (unless you play natural 1s as auto-fails in checks and saves), I wanted them to at least have a small chance of failure unless they really worked on their constitution. The warcaster advantage also wouldn't be totally redundant for this class. In addition to the other abilities, opponents would have to have at least to conditions giving disadvantage to cancel his advantage in that case. Example: Enemy with mage slayer hits this barbarian, normally this would cancel his advantage, but since he has warcaster, his advantage is not cancelled unless the enemies can come up with another way to add a second disadvantage to his roll.

    Maybe I could give this barbarian disadvantage on rolls using non-ranger spells. That idea don't seem to good. You can't ragecast until level 10, so I don't think it would be to easy to abuse, and if you multiclass, you are going to be casting much lower levelled spells, so I don't find it too broken. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem to me that a ??? barbarian 10/cleric or wizard(or insert other spellcaster) 10 is overpowered for level 20 character. I kind of see the problem, but I don't know how to fix it (I am open to advice), and I don't see it as being that overpowered. The more I think about it, the less overpowered it feels.

    I am open to hearing more from you, be it suggestion, advice or criticism. You are in fact bringing against me some of the same types of arguments I would use if I saw something like this that I hadn't seen before. Thank you for your time.
    Last edited by Maxidion; 2019-07-05 at 11:58 AM. Reason: Clarification and spelling.

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    Orc in the Playground
     
    Daemon

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    My understanding of concentration checks is that they all have a DC of 10, I see no reason to change this. This subclass is meant to be played differently than the normal barbarian. Early on your pretty much supposed to be choosing whether you want to use spells, or rage and/or reckless. However, barbarians are proficient in Con saves, which apparently applies to concentration checks (even though they strangely use different roll terms (checks/saves)), once they have advantage on their concentration checks, they will very rarely fail these checks.

    Later on, raging actually makes your spells better, with forceful casting and losing the penalties raging brings to it. As far as far using the spells to supplement being a barbarian, even though it seems your stating something obvious, I'm still missing it. Could please delve deeper into the explanation and maybe give an example or two?
    Concentration check DC is based on whatever os forcing you to make it- damage is half damage or 10 whichever is higher. Sleet Storm and Earthquake spells make the DC the Spell DC.

    Rangers have a handful of self buffs but many of the strongest are better or only for ranged attacks. They also tend to lean toward stealth and travel facilitation or buffing your attack on the fly (the explodey thorn one, restrain with vines one, etc) the former is not the barbarian’s forte beyond the minimum so taking them steers you away from doing what the class does best, the latter discourages you from using rage for the majority of your career.

    Since you can’t cast while raging for the majority of the character’s career it discourages you from raging until after you’ve cast a spell and again, for most of your career, you might lose it after round 1 for raging.

    As is the class features put the core feature of Rage at odds with whe main focus of the subclass, spell casting.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    I see your point about differentiating the two classes, and I agree to a point. The rangers do have a unique spells list, but they also have quite a bit of interesting non-spell abilities (especially if they don't pick the beast master subclass, that is the ranger's weakest point in my opinion). While I did intend for this to be a pretty rangery barbarian I agree they should be separated a little more, I'm just not sure how.

    I considered giving the barbarian double proficiency in concentration checks instead of advantage, but that would utterly guarantee success on every roll without too much effort (unless you play natural 1s as auto-fails in checks and saves), I wanted them to at least have a small chance of failure unless they really worked on their constitution. The warcaster advantage also wouldn't be totally redundant for this class. In addition to the other abilities, opponents would have to have at least to conditions giving disadvantage to cancel his advantage in that case. Example: Enemy with mage slayer hits this barbarian, normally this would cancel his advantage, but since he has warcaster, his advantage is not cancelled unless the enemies can come up with another way to add a second disadvantage to his roll.
    RAW Advantage doesn’t work that way and the word count necessary wouldn’t be worth it. Double proficiency for concentration would probably mean guaranteed success on 90% of checks and that’s just fine.

    The best way to distinguish the subclass would be to create a more diverse spell list that and find a way to make casting while raging (even if all you add is “Spells that require a bonus action to cast can be cast while raging” to the L3 ability.)

    That brings spells like Misty Step, most of the ranger attack buffs, maybe add in the smite spells.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    Maybe I could give this barbarian disadvantage on rolls using non-ranger spells. That idea don't seem to good. You can't ragecast until level 10, so I don't think it would be to easy to abuse, and if you multiclass, you are going to be casting much lower levelled spells, so I don't find it too broken. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem to me that a ??? barbarian 10/cleric or wizard(or insert other spellcaster) 10 is overpowered for level 20 character. I kind of see the problem, but I don't know how to fix it (I am open to advice), and I don't see it as being that overpowered. The more I think about it, the less overpowered it feels.

    I am open to hearing more from you, be it suggestion, advice or criticism. You are in fact bringing against me some of the same types of arguments I would use if I saw something like this that I hadn't seen before. Thank you for your time.
    Good luck!
    Last edited by BerzerkerUnit; 2019-07-05 at 05:31 PM.

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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    I do have a theme, though I will admit it is broad. I wanted them to have natural power, but druid didn't quite fit with what I was going for, Ranger on the other hand is pretty much perfect. I hadn't thought about it as deeply as you mentioned, so I will do that.
    That's not nearly specific enough of a theme for a subclass. "have power from nature," pretty much encompasses the druid, the ranger, and partially the base barbarian. Filling in other themes, the College of Glamour, Nature Domain, Oath of the Ancients, Scout, and Archfey Patron tie characters to having power from nature in different ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    However, I was well aware of the limitations on the Eldritch Knight and the Arcane Trickster had. I thought that several facts balanced this out. 1. Their are no cantrips in the Ranger's spells list. 2. I have this barbarian know less spells than any of those subclasses or the ranger. 3. It seems to me that the Ranger's spells list is already pretty limited. I know it isn't that limited, but I wanted a balance between being limited and having a relatively wide array of options (which was one of my goals for this subclass), I felt that the ranger hit that. If you still think that this is too much, we can work on fixing the problem, but limiting to any two schools would limit it more than I prefer.
    This isn't so much the power as it is the theme.
    Quote Originally Posted by Player's Handbook
    Abjuration spells grant an Eldritch Knight additional protection in battle, and evocation spells deal damage to many foes at once, extending the fighter's reach in combat.
    The schools Eldritch Knights focus on grant them specific, concrete benefits in combat that. The same goes for Arcane Tricksters.

    But yes, failing to specify I was talking about the ranger in direct combat was a mistake. Although it is also worth pointing out a barbarian's non-combat usefulness is traditionally in finding clever ways to make an Athletics check.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    The theme for this subclass was supposed to be a barbarian who spent a lot of time in the wild, but not enough to gain features like favored terrain, and learned to use natural power to cast spells. I kind of wanted what type of spells they took to be up to the player, and I wanted Hunter's Mark to be one the primary options. After that, whether they used their power to speak to animals, empower their attacks, control the battlefield, see what nature sees, that was meant to be optional and non-restrictive. Sorry I'm pretty much repeating myself in different words, but one of my primary goals for this class was for it not to be restricted by schools of magic. Pretty much everything I felt didn't fit with this subclass is not in the ranger spells.
    I'll leave the ranger argument for another day, but my issue is that this subclass will pretty much end up knowing the same spells a ranger does. Although a barbarian might prefer Zephyr Strike to Hunter's Mark, they'd mostly be working with the same spells known. Perhaps a separate spell list for the subclass would differentiate them?

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    I did this.
    I like the feel of this. Is, uh, there somewhere to recommend rephrasing some of the text? For example, I don't see you specify that your Eldritch Might drops when you end your rage before 14th level (although Cauldron of Power says it now drops to 2).

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    Yes, this is one of my problems. I still think it is useful, because is they have multiple weapons, say a +1 greataxe, and a bunch of javelins, it will work on their javelins. It would also work when they have lost their weapons and have to fight unarmed or with improvised or other weapons. This is where I was considering putting things like the +1d4 elemental damage, or the drain life with necrotic damage perks. I specifically want this barbarian to use their power differently than the Eldritch Knight, Arcane Trickster and Hexblade Warlack, and the weapons returning feels too much like is in the theme of the Eldritch Knight and the Hexblade Warlock. Thank you for the idea though. I might consider something like you can throw any weapon up to 60 ft. with no disadvantage. Still doesn't quite fit though.
    Check out the Path of the Zealot from Xanathar's. It might be worth basing something off that subclass's ability to deal 1d6 + 1/2 barb level in radiant damage the first time they hit during a turn.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    My understanding of concentration checks is that they all have a DC of 10, I see no reason to change this. This subclass is meant to be played differently than the normal barbarian. Early on your pretty much supposed to be choosing whether you want to use spells, or rage and/or reckless. However, barbarians are proficient in Con saves, which apparently applies to concentration checks (even though they strangely use different roll terms (checks/saves)), once they have advantage on their concentration checks, they will very rarely fail these checks.
    Concentration checks have been replaced with straight up saving throws. "Concentration" has been repurposed to limit stacking buffs, and they're no longer "checks:"
    Quote Originally Posted by Player Handbook
    Taking damage. Whenever you take damage while you are concentrating on a spell, you must make a Constitution saving throw to maintain your concentration. The DC equals 10 or half the damage you take, whichever number is higher. If you take damage from multiple sources, such as an arrow and a dragon's breath, you make a separate saving throw for each source of damage.

    I'm also not sure you've accurately described how advantage/disadvantage works:
    Quote Originally Posted by Player's Handbook
    If circumstances cause a roll to have both advantage and disadvantage, you are considered to have neither of them, and you roll one d20. This is true even if multiple circumstances impose disadvantage and only one grants advantage or vice versa. In such a situation, you have neither advantage nor disadvantage.
    I just solved the issue of abuff that stacks with War Caster by allowing one reroll, which also avoids expertise in a saving throw:
    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    Centered Solid Focus
    Starting at 6th level, whenever you make a saving throw to maintain concentration, you can reroll one of the dice once.
    This buff works with advantage, disadvantage, and both/neither. If you don't come up with anything better, I don't mine you using this (assuming the rest of your subclass is different).

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    You can't ragecast until level 10, so I don't think it would be to easy to abuse, and if you multiclass, you are going to be casting much lower levelled spells, so I don't find it too broken. I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem to me that a ??? barbarian 10/cleric or wizard(or insert other spellcaster) 10 is overpowered for level 20 character. I kind of see the problem, but I don't know how to fix it (I am open to advice), and I don't see it as being that overpowered. The more I think about it, the less overpowered it feels.
    The lever for balancing this is how many caster levels they have to lose to get ragecasting (or limited ragecasting).

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    Rangers have a handful of self buffs but many of the strongest are better or only for ranged attacks. They also tend to lean toward stealth and travel facilitation or buffing your attack on the fly (the explodey thorn one, restrain with vines one, etc) the former is not the barbarian’s forte beyond the minimum so taking them steers you away from doing what the class does best, the latter discourages you from using rage for the majority of your career.

    Since you can’t cast while raging for the majority of the character’s career it discourages you from raging until after you’ve cast a spell and again, for most of your career, you might lose it after round 1 for raging.

    As is the class features put the core feature of Rage at odds with whe main focus of the subclass, spell casting.
    I'd like to reiterate this. The reason ragecasters are so difficult (but so tantalizing) is how rage and spellcasting inherently fight with each other. The main thing that I think works is to allow spellcasting where the core barbarian class can't do something. Which isn't that hard to identify (anything other than wacking things and taking ungodly amounts of damage) but often harder to implement.

  12. - Top - End - #12
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    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    [QUOTE=BerzerkerUnit;24015144] Concentration check DC is based on whatever os forcing you to make it- damage is half damage or 10 whichever is higher. Sleet Storm and Earthquake spells make the DC the Spell DC. [QUOTE/]

    Good to know. I will edit the original post to state that the DC is 10 for now. I might change it later depending on what happens.

    [QUOTE=BerzerkerUnit;24015144]Rangers have a handful of self buffs but many of the strongest are better or only for ranged attacks. They also tend to lean toward stealth and travel facilitation or buffing your attack on the fly (the explodey thorn one, restrain with vines one, etc) the former is not the barbarian’s forte beyond the minimum so taking them steers you away from doing what the class does best, the latter discourages you from using rage for the majority of your career.

    Since you can’t cast while raging for the majority of the character’s career it discourages you from raging until after you’ve cast a spell and again, for most of your career, you might lose it after round 1 for raging.

    As is the class features put the core feature of Rage at odds with whe main focus of the subclass, spell casting.[QUOTE/]

    One of the main ideas of this class was make player have to balance themselves between raging and spellcasting until they get to later levels. The way I see it, being able to cast spells, even just bonus action ones (as you mention below) while raging is incredibly powerful and thus needs to be restricted to higher levels. At first I was going to allow it but make them have to do a checks of some kind to be able cast spells while raging, but I didn't like the idea that they could waste their whole failing to cast a spell.

    Technically they can cast spells while raging for 55% of their career. I rather liked the idea that this barbarian might have to wait a turn before raging so that they can cast something like hunter's mark. I have seen nothing that says that a barbarian needs to be bad at stealthing or traveling, other than the fact people don't usually go with Dex builds for them. The barbarian can easily throw javelins, even in a strength build for the ranged attacks. Also one of the reasons I picked the ranger subclass is because it doesn't have many high damage boosts for melee attacks.

    Most subclasses for barbarian improve the raging, if someone wants do boost their raging they can pick another subclass. This subclass does not intend to make the barbarian much better at what it already does, its purpose is to give the barbarian more options, some of which if taken may not synergize with raging.

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    RAW Advantage doesn’t work that way and the word count necessary wouldn’t be worth it. Double proficiency for concentration would probably mean guaranteed success on 90% of checks and that’s just fine.

    The best way to distinguish the subclass would be to create a more diverse spell list that and find a way to make casting while raging (even if all you add is “Spells that require a bonus action to cast can be cast while raging” to the L3 ability.)

    That brings spells like Misty Step, most of the ranger attack buffs, maybe add in the smite spells.

    Good luck!
    I had not learned advantage that way, but when I looked it up apparently you were right. I will never play the game that way, unless a GM forces me to, but it is good to know for making publicly available content. I am considering changing the advantage to double proficiency now, but I am also looking for other options. I don't really want the smites in this class's spells list and I feel that the only real difference between bonus action casting and full action casting is the time it takes. Hence it doesn't warrant the ability to cast bonus action spells and not full action spells.

    You have given me an idea though, actually two. While I don't want the smites in this subclass's spells list, I wouldn't be opposed to the idea of them getting a smite or two instead of gaining magical attacks at 6th level. Perhaps I could also allow a bonus action spell to be cast with the same bonus action you rage with. Thoughts?

    P.S. Sorry for not clarifying the intentions of the subclass more clearly earlier. And thank you for the close scrutiny of my subclass.

    P.S.S. I had an idea for a name, Path of the Wildcaster. Opinion?
    Last edited by Maxidion; 2019-07-06 at 12:12 AM.

  13. - Top - End - #13
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    Daemon

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    Name sounds good.

    You don’t normally see Dex barbarians because making them is (outside of very specific builds like dual wielding Halflings) a deliberate self nerf. The rage damage bonus only applies to strength attacks, Athletics is a strength skill and you get a bonus while raging.

    55% of career when developer research indicates most campaigns end at level 12 (hence the reason little scrutiny and testing is done on material for tier 4) is actually quite bad.

    I understand now there’s a specific target you’re aiming for with this, I think you’d get more mileage by creating a rage based subclass for ranger. Rage as a fall back for a class focused around spells for the wilderness seems much closer to your ideal than putting the class core mechanic at odds with the subclass core mechanic for the likely majority of play.

    Raging Ranger: A rage feature (or /rounds of Rage-lite equal to Con bonus, recover on a short rest, +1 hp/lvl and you have your level 3 set to go.

    Add the concentrate while raging at 6 end early to rage smite at 11. And so on.

    Best of luck!

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    Quote Originally Posted by BerzerkerUnit View Post
    Name sounds good.

    You don’t normally see Dex barbarians because making them is (outside of very specific builds like dual wielding Halflings) a deliberate self nerf. The rage damage bonus only applies to strength attacks, Athletics is a strength skill and you get a bonus while raging.

    55% of career when developer research indicates most campaigns end at level 12 (hence the reason little scrutiny and testing is done on material for tier 4) is actually quite bad.

    I understand now there’s a specific target you’re aiming for with this, I think you’d get more mileage by creating a rage based subclass for ranger. Rage as a fall back for a class focused around spells for the wilderness seems much closer to your ideal than putting the class core mechanic at odds with the subclass core mechanic for the likely majority of play.

    Raging Ranger: A rage feature (or /rounds of Rage-lite equal to Con bonus, recover on a short rest, +1 hp/lvl and you have your level 3 set to go.

    Add the concentrate while raging at 6 end early to rage smite at 11. And so on.

    Best of luck!
    Your right about the Dex barbarians. I had figured that out a while before, but didn't take time think about it this time before blurting out some nonsense.

    It appears you are a very informed person when it comes to this game as you keep giving me information I had not known before. Whenever I try to make a game I am always planning to at least get to level 15 and probably past that, unless the PCs lose their safety lose their safety net and get themselves all killed.

    I may well make a raging ranger, but I would like to keep this as well. I imagine a normal player of the Wildcaster would still rage more often than use spells, as the raging will be more useful in combat until you are able to use your spells more reliably while raging. The spells are meant to be extra utility, whether for combat or not is up to the player. I do imagine that the Wildcaster would be outshined in combat by the other barbarians, but they have more options at their disposal.

    I am partly making up the goal as I go, because I didn't really think about, I just had a type of feel I wanted to go for. The Ranger also has a completely different list of core features than the Barbarian. I also imagine that while the Wildcaster has some understanding of the wild, it is not as what the ranger has. How much exactly will depend on how the player builds their Wildcaster: Backgrounds, Skills, etc...

    By the way, is there a way for me to change the name of the post to replace the ??? with Wildcaster? I appreciate your help so far, thank you very much. Have a nice day.

    !!! Wow! Some how I didn't notice your post before. Sorry about that Sandmote.

    You said a lot of good stuff up their. Somehow I can't think of anything else to say myself at the moment. When I come back I will see if I can give a better reply.
    Last edited by Maxidion; 2019-07-06 at 11:12 AM. Reason: !!!

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    !!! Wow! Some how I didn't notice your post before. Sorry about that Sandmote.

    You said a lot of good stuff up their. Somehow I can't think of anything else to say myself at the moment. When I come back I will see if I can give a better reply.
    Based on the timestamps, you were writing a reply when I posted. Either way, sorry for vanishing from the homebrew forum for a week.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    One of the main ideas of this class was make player have to balance themselves between raging and spellcasting until they get to later levels. The way I see it, being able to cast spells, even just bonus action ones (as you mention below) while raging is incredibly powerful and thus needs to be restricted to higher levels. At first I was going to allow it but make them have to do a checks of some kind to be able cast spells while raging, but I didn't like the idea that they could waste their whole failing to cast a spell.

    Technically they can cast spells while raging for 55% of their career. I rather liked the idea that this barbarian might have to wait a turn before raging so that they can cast something like hunter's mark. I have seen nothing that says that a barbarian needs to be bad at stealthing or traveling, other than the fact people don't usually go with Dex builds for them. The barbarian can easily throw javelins, even in a strength build for the ranged attacks. Also one of the reasons I picked the ranger subclass is because it doesn't have many high damage boosts for melee attacks.

    Most subclasses for barbarian improve the raging, if someone wants do boost their raging they can pick another subclass. This subclass does not intend to make the barbarian much better at what it already does, its purpose is to give the barbarian more options, some of which if taken may not synergize with raging.
    The idea only occurred to me while writing this, but you could give this subclass a knockoff of the Path of the Beserker's Frenzy ability. You can choose to be able to cast spells while raging, but gain a level of exhaustion at the end of that rage. At a much higher level you could probably let them make a Constitution saving throw to avoid the exhaustion (or remove that restriction entirely).

    This would let you cast spells while raging at low levels, but keeps raging and spellcasting feeling like they naturally oppose each other (both mechanically and thematically). This wouldn't make the player think about whether or not they need to rage, but it would create a situation where they need to weigh the risks of whether or not they want to use a powerful ability.

    Whether you do this, my earlier suggestion or anything else, I'd like to point out that you really need to give this subclass some other abilities. Maybe not as many as the Arcane Trickster gets, but something other than spells and casting while you rage. Getting some other bonus from nature, or a benefit to another barbarian class ability. Let reckless attack apply to spells maybe? Magical Aggression is barely even a ribbon, while Forceful Casting and Spell Resistance are entirely crunch.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    P.S.S. I had an idea for a name, Path of the Wildcaster. Opinion?
    That works. Certainly gets the point across, and adds that wilderness flavor you were going for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    By the way, is there a way for me to change the name of the post to replace the ??? with Wildcaster? I appreciate your help so far, thank you very much. Have a nice day.
    You should be able to do this when you "edit post," on the first post in the thread. It's in a separate text box near the top.

    And I apologize if I've been preachy or heavy handed. I'm not great at tact. The subclass and its theme are good, but it doesn't feel quite like you have a whole subclass there.

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    Some things to draw inspiration from:
    • Breccia submitted the Path of the Leywalker to one of our subclass contests earlier this year.
    • I made a very basic skeleton of a minionmancer/summoner-style barbarian, the Feral Path, which used rage to emulate a specific spell (in this case, Beast Bond)
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!

    Friday Night DM for the Natural21s on Twitch on JennyBear, VOD on Youtube


    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    Based on the timestamps, you were writing a reply when I posted. Either way, sorry for vanishing from the homebrew forum for a week.

    The idea only occurred to me while writing this, but you could give this subclass a knockoff of the Path of the Beserker's Frenzy ability. You can choose to be able to cast spells while raging, but gain a level of exhaustion at the end of that rage. At a much higher level you could probably let them make a Constitution saving throw to avoid the exhaustion (or remove that restriction entirely).

    This would let you cast spells while raging at low levels, but keeps raging and spellcasting feeling like they naturally oppose each other (both mechanically and thematically). This wouldn't make the player think about whether or not they need to rage, but it would create a situation where they need to weigh the risks of whether or not they want to use a powerful ability.

    Whether you do this, my earlier suggestion or anything else, I'd like to point out that you really need to give this subclass some other abilities. Maybe not as many as the Arcane Trickster gets, but something other than spells and casting while you rage. Getting some other bonus from nature, or a benefit to another barbarian class ability. Let reckless attack apply to spells maybe? Magical Aggression is barely even a ribbon, while Forceful Casting and Spell Resistance are entirely crunch.

    That works. Certainly gets the point across, and adds that wilderness flavor you were going for.

    You should be able to do this when you "edit post," on the first post in the thread. It's in a separate text box near the top.

    And I apologize if I've been preachy or heavy handed. I'm not great at tact. The subclass and its theme are good, but it doesn't feel quite like you have a whole subclass there.
    HA! I've been gone for how long now, 2-3 weeks? Life has finally caught up with me, so I will probably only be able to post on about a weekly basis now

    I actually very much like your frenzy ripoff idea. I just feel I need to add something else on top of that or based off of it. I want a somewhat more immediate penalty. Also I would like just a little bit of something making the player have to consider whether or not raging is a good idea, but I agree to much of that would be problem. Another way of putting it, I like your idea, but I would like a little bit opposition between raging and spellcasting to begin with, but not to much, and something that can be removed with levels. So I am replacing my idea with yours, I just need to figure a slight modification to it first.

    I really don't know what the crunch means in "Forceful casting and Spell resistance are entirely crunch". (If you haven't noticed yet, I seem not to be able to figure out how to split a quote box). Again I agree they need some other abilities now that I've been thinking about it and other people have been saying so. I have been considering the ideas of giving them some particular smite or smite-like spells, but even then, that doesn't seem quite right.

    I don't understand tact myself, just don't say something meant to offend, and I'll be fine. I believe you have been contributing the most to the development of the Wildcaster. I very much appreciate your assistance. I may seem or even be stubborn, but I'm trying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    Some things to draw inspiration from:
    • Breccia submitted the Path of the Leywalker to one of our subclass contests earlier this year.
    • I made a very basic skeleton of a minionmancer/summoner-style barbarian, the Feral Path, which used rage to emulate a specific spell (in this case, Beast Bond)
    I skimmed the Leywalker, and it seemed good. Unhappily, I don't have the free time anymore to read through the whole thing properly, as much as I would enjoy it.

  18. - Top - End - #18
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    Eh, we can go at whatever pace. [Insert sappy quotes about the journey being what matters here]

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    I actually very much like your frenzy ripoff idea. I just feel I need to add something else on top of that or based off of it. I want a somewhat more immediate penalty. Also I would like just a little bit of something making the player have to consider whether or not raging is a good idea, but I agree to much of that would be problem. Another way of putting it, I like your idea, but I would like a little bit opposition between raging and spellcasting to begin with, but not to much, and something that can be removed with levels. So I am replacing my idea with yours, I just need to figure a slight modification to it first.
    Whatever gets the juices flowing.

    Although I'm kind of out of ideas. Maybe a penalty per spell cast while raging? Reduced max hit points? A level of exhaustion each time you cast while raging instead of one after the frenzy knockoff?
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    I really don't know what the crunch means in "Forceful casting and Spell resistance are entirely crunch". (If you haven't noticed yet, I seem not to be able to figure out how to split a quote box). Again I agree they need some other abilities now that I've been thinking about it and other people have been saying so. I have been considering the ideas of giving them some particular smite or smite-like spells, but even then, that doesn't seem quite right.
    Crunch meaning it has a mechanical effect. As opposed to fluff, which is the flavor text helping humans (or whatever living beings will be using your homebrew) understand where an ability comes from and how it ties into the other such abilities. The middle ground being occupied by "ribbons," which have a very minor mechanical effect that serves to reinforce the fluff.

    You can't actually split a quote, but if you make two quotes that reference the same post each followed by an end quote it'll look like you did. The comment I reply to above has the marker "Maxidion;24067277," so if I write "[QUOTE=Maxidion;24067277]" (bolded to keep it from making a quote box) and end with "[/QUOTE]" it'll make a quote around everything between them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    Thanks, although I don't remember writing this
    You're welcome

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    Eh, we can go at whatever pace. [Insert sappy quotes about the journey being what matters here]

    Whatever gets the juices flowing.

    Although I'm kind of out of ideas. Maybe a penalty per spell cast while raging? Reduced max hit points? A level of exhaustion each time you cast while raging instead of one after the frenzy knockoff?
    Idea, I could make it so that you keep the concentration checks I was saying, but when you fail you may choose to take a level of exhaustion rather than lose the spell. That seems to be a bit tedious for the players though. Let me check back what exactly the Wild-Caster does when and where.

    ...

    Alright I'm back and I have new ideas. Not yet complete, but some changes.

    LEVEL 3

    Spellcasting: This barbarian may cast ranger spells...

    Unfocused casting: When raging, you may cast spells, however, you must make a concentration check, if you fail you must either take a level of exhaustion or lose the spell. Concentrating on spells is even harder, as you must make a concentration check at the end of every turn after the one you cast it on, or the above mentioned will happen.

    LEVEL 6

    Unshakable: You may add 1d8 - 1 to all constitution saving throws. At level 14 this changes to 1d8 + 0.

    Raging Smites (needs work or change): During a long rest you may pick a smite spell from any spells list that meets the following criterea. Is a bonus action to cast, takes affect and ends the next time you hit a creature, is a concentration spell, and is of a level less than or equal to your highest level spellslot. You may only have one chosen at a time. This may be used once per short rest, and you never have to make concentration checks for it.


    LEVEL 10

    Calculated Rage: Raging no causes you to have to make checks on concentration spells after the one made to cast it. And you may cast one spell while raging per long rest without making concentration check.

    Forceful Casting: When raging, all spells will be cast at one level higher then the spell slots you spent on them.

    LEVEL 14

    Mythical Resistance: Once per long rest you may automatically succeed a saving throw of your choice against anything magical as long as you are raging, if that spell would deal damage, you take none. When you do this, you must make a concentration saving throw (DC 8 + spell level) or take one level of exhaustion.

    Resilience: When taking a short or long rest, you may spend spend hit dice to remove an extra level of exhaustion. To do this you spend hit dice. You roll hit dice like normal, but instead of healing, you regain 1 level of exhaustion once the total number from the hit dice equals 10 + your level. You may only use this to remove one extra level of exhaustion. The ability refreshes after you have finished a long rest.

    This kind of changes the dynamic of the class, it will always have to make checks to cast spells, however it will be easier later on.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    Crunch meaning it has a mechanical effect. As opposed to fluff, which is the flavor text helping humans (or whatever living beings will be using your homebrew) understand where an ability comes from and how it ties into the other such abilities. The middle ground being occupied by "ribbons," which have a very minor mechanical effect that serves to reinforce the fluff.
    Ok, makes sense, though I feel I may have partially missed the point. I thought of forceful casting as the Wild-Caster putting more effort into his/her casting while he/she is raging. I know it goes better with charisma based casting, but I felt like it also fit here and I rather like what it does. I haven't yet thought up a good excuse for resilience, but I am willing to change it if something better comes up.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    You can't actually split a quote, but if you make two quotes that reference the same post each followed by an end quote it'll look like you did. The comment I reply to above has the marker "Maxidion;24067277," so if I write "[QUOTE=Maxidion;24067277]" (bolded to keep it from making a quote box) and end with "
    " it'll make a quote around everything between them.
    You're welcome [/QUOTE]

    Hah! You had me scrolling up looking for where I had said "Thanks, though I don't remember writing this." If you observe my reply to your second post, you will notice my failed attempts at this strategy. Thankfully, I have figured out another one. I reply, delete the parts I am not replying to, write my reply, copy everything, leave the page, reply again, paste my previous message before the new reply and cycle through the steps until I have accomplished my goal.

  20. - Top - End - #20
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the Wildcaster, Homebrew Subclass Design

    Get Kane0 in on this. He created a 1/3 sorcerer subclass for the barbarian that looks quite good.

    Spoiler: How to Make Custom Monsters
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    The damage column shows total damage output on hit over an entire round, and is modified based on factors like recharge, AoE etc.

  21. - Top - End - #21
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the Wildcaster, Homebrew Subclass Design

    If sharing different approaches is welcome, take a look at mine (in the signature below)
    My Homebrew:
    Don't look for an insult when there is none.


    Quote Originally Posted by Anon von Zilch View Post
    Words actually mean things, people!


    Current Characters:
    Arkhios "Wolfhammer", V.Human Paladin (Ancients) 5 (Dawnfall: The Greendale Campaign)
    Anarriel, Valenar Fighter (Cavalier/TBD) 4 (Eberron: Embers of the Last War)

  22. - Top - End - #22
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    OrcBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    Whatever works to keep your replies organized

    On the new idea, an endurance ragecaster is a lot more specific than "nature themed," gives additional mechanic benefits, and adds some flavor to tie the spells too. Massive Improvement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    Unshakable: You may add 1d8 - 1 to all constitution saving throws. At level 14 this changes to 1d8 + 0.
    A good idea, although I'd start it with a smaller die and bump up the size, the same way most 5e abilities work. Maybe a d4 and then up to a d6, given it stacks with advantage/disadvantage and applies indefinitely.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    Raging Smites (needs work or change): During a long rest you may pick a smite spell from any spells list that meets the following criterea. Is a bonus action to cast, takes affect and ends the next time you hit a creature, is a concentration spell, and is of a level less than or equal to your highest level spellslot. You may only have one chosen at a time. This may be used once per short rest, and you never have to make concentration checks for it.
    I'd actually move this to 3rd level, assuming you're going to specify the PC treats the spell in question as being on their spell list. Then specify that you can maintain one instance of that spell without requiring concentration, but the spell also ends if you cast it again. You could use an offensive 3rd level feature anyway.

    The formatting for this should probably be based on the Grave Domain's special version of Spare the Dying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    Calculated Rage: Raging no causes you to have to make checks on concentration spells after the one made to cast it. And you may cast one spell while raging per long rest without making concentration check.

    Forceful Casting: When raging, all spells will be cast at one level higher then the spell slots you spent on them.
    These look mechanically okay to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    Mythical Resistance: Once per long rest you may automatically succeed a saving throw of your choice against anything magical as long as you are raging, if that spell would deal damage, you take none. When you do this, you must make a concentration saving throw (DC 8 + spell level) or take one level of exhaustion.

    Resilience: When taking a short or long rest, you may spend spend hit dice to remove an extra level of exhaustion. To do this you spend hit dice. You roll hit dice like normal, but instead of healing, you regain 1 level of exhaustion once the total number from the hit dice equals 10 + your level. You may only use this to remove one extra level of exhaustion. The ability refreshes after you have finished a long rest.
    I'd maybe let you remove a level of exhaustion by flat out spending some number of hit dice. You shouldn't get worse at shrugging off exhaustion as you level (as you would when needing to heal 10 + your level). I'm going to suggest 4 dice to start, allowing the PC to use this three times per long rest when they get this feature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxidion View Post
    This kind of changes the dynamic of the class, it will always have to make checks to cast spells, however it will be easier later on.
    I'm focusing more on the stuff messing with exhaustion, which feels like to rounds out the subclass a lot more. Most of the language should be cleaned up, but I think this works a lot better.

  23. - Top - End - #23
    Pixie in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the ??? (Spellcaster Barbarian) Homebrew Subclass Design

    Bjarkmundur, Arkhios, I appreciate you pointing out other examples to look at. I have a lot of fun seeing how other people make their things and how they go about doing them. Sadly, I am already spending more time than I really should be just discussing the making of this subclass and simply don't have the time to read through these. Anyone can feel free to point out other posts, I just probably won't be able to really look at them any time soon. Maybe if I get a real day off.


    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    Whatever works to keep your replies organized
    I have now figured out a simpler system, which is basically what you said to do, except I'm copying and pasting rather than typing the quote "commands?" or whatever they're called. Maybe I just get a typo every time I try.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    On the new idea, an endurance ragecaster is a lot more specific than "nature themed," gives additional mechanic benefits, and adds some flavor to tie the spells too. Massive Improvement.
    Not sure if your talking about my idea, or the other posts, but I'm going to guess your talking about mine. In that case thanks, though it was kind of an accident, and certainly wouldn't have come about without you're constructive criticism. I also prefer how it has ended up so far, so thank you some more. (Saying thank you so much makes them feel meaningless, but I don't what else to say when I'm thankful).

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    A good idea, although I'd start it with a smaller die and bump up the size, the same way most 5e abilities work. Maybe a d4 and then up to a d6, given it stacks with advantage/disadvantage and applies indefinitely.
    This is meant to replace giving advantage on the Con saves because the feat War-Caster already gives it. It is already significantly less powerful than that and I really don't want to nerf it more. I have it with the -1 at first because then that makes possible for it to equal a 0 to your roll, which certainly happens sometimes with advantage.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    I'd actually move this to 3rd level, assuming you're going to specify the PC treats the spell in question as being on their spell list. Then specify that you can maintain one instance of that spell without requiring concentration, but the spell also ends if you cast it again. You could use an offensive 3rd level feature anyway.

    The formatting for this should probably be based on the Grave Domain's special version of Spare the Dying.
    I'm afraid I don't quite understand what you are saying here. But I had not intended on this being added to your spells list, just being something that you can cast once per short rest. Although I just realized I don't have anything improving on this skill later on.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    I'd maybe let you remove a level of exhaustion by flat out spending some number of hit dice. You shouldn't get worse at shrugging off exhaustion as you level (as you would when needing to heal 10 + your level). I'm going to suggest 4 dice to start, allowing the PC to use this three times per long rest when they get this feature.
    I was considering letting them just spend a flat amount of hit dice at first, but decided against it. I wanted the difficulty to scale a little with their level. In fact it is still getting easier as they have to spend a smaller fraction of their hit dice than before. But I couldn't very well have the amount of hit dice they need to use increase each time as that would be too steep an increase in cost. If I allowed players the ability to do this more often, then they really wouldn't care very much about risking gaining exhaustion, which I still want them to worry about, if not as much as before.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    I'm focusing more on the stuff messing with exhaustion, which feels like to rounds out the subclass a lot more. Most of the language should be cleaned up, but I think this works a lot better.
    I only understand part of your first sentence here. I definitely agree that I need to clean up the language a bit, I'm very bad at getting things properly readable on my first try or my third proofread. It helps a little that I proofread almost every time I post, and then go back over and edit again. Obviously I'm not very good seeing as how all these mistakes remain. Once I have fully decided what I'm going to do with the Wild-Caster, I will update the first post, and then I will come back and proofread every week or so for maybe a month. That's my new plan anyway.

    The only thing I feel is missing is that other than Ranger spells and being a barbarian, the Wild-Caster has nothing Wilderness like about them. Endurance base was a small part of my goal, as it would assist with the spell casting capability, and I'm fine with it being a main feature now but... I still wish I could think of maybe one more nature thing to add. If were to that I could possibly put that at 6th level and move the Rage Smites to 3rd level. I welcome your next set of thoughts.
    Last edited by Maxidion; 2019-08-22 at 11:09 PM.

  24. - Top - End - #24
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Barbarian: Path of the Wildcaster, Homebrew Subclass Design

    Hi Maxidion, sorry if I'm intruding, also because I admit that I haven't read the entire discussion and this could seem like a random post. As you are trying to make a melee/caster subclass, can i suggest you to take a look at the homebrew class i made here? I'm trying to develop a mechanic that might interest you.

    Let me know!
    Last edited by Old Harry MTX; 2019-08-25 at 06:28 AM.

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