Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die

[Rynjin]

Source please? Or did you mean that "this is how you personally would rule it"?

A384 Expansion: The Combat Maneuver description from the Combat section is probably the best way to clarify this,

When performing a combat maneuver, you must use an action appropriate to the maneuver you are attempting to perform. While many combat maneuvers can be performed as part of an attack action, full-attack action, or attack of opportunity (in place of a melee attack), others require a specific action. Unless otherwise noted, performing a combat maneuver provokes an attack of opportunity from the target of the maneuver. If you are hit by the target, you take the damage normally and apply that amount as a penalty to the attack roll to perform the maneuver. If your target is immobilized, unconscious, or otherwise incapacitated, your maneuver automatically succeeds (treat as if you rolled a natural 20 on the attack roll). If your target is stunned, you receive a +4 bonus on your attack roll to perform a combat maneuver against it.

When you attempt to perform a combat maneuver, make an attack roll and add your CMB in place of your normal attack bonus. Add any bonuses you currently have on attack rolls due to spells, feats, and other effects. These bonuses must be applicable to the weapon or attack used to perform the maneuver. The DC of this maneuver is your target’s Combat Maneuver Defense. Combat maneuvers are attack rolls, so you must roll for concealment and take any other penalties that would normally apply to an attack roll.

Followed by, for example, the description of Trip in general.

You can attempt to trip your opponent in place of a melee attack.

Combat Maneuvers like Trip are made in place of a melee attack, and are not melee attacks in themselves. What they are, however, is ATTACK ROLLS, which is why they benefit from effects that add to attack rolls...including the Enhancement bonus of a weapon if the Combat Maneuver is made with said weapon.

Not being melee attacks, they cannot by their very nature be a specific KIND of melee attack. The trip attempt is no more an unarmed strike than it is an attack with a longsword.

[Cieyrin]

Source please? Or did you mean that "this is how you personally would rule it"?

Bull Rush, Disarm, and Trip all replace a melee strike or attack, so instead of following the melee attack rules on page 182 of the CRB, you're instead following the respective rules for that maneuver on pages 199-201. They all have the following text or similar.

You can attempt to disarm your opponent in place of a melee attack.

You're not meeting the requirement of Hex Strike or School Strike for a successful unarmed strike, as you replaced your attempt at a strike with the respective maneuver.
If you wanted to have both a combat maneuver and activate your Strike feat on the same successful unarmed attack, you'd need something like Bull Rush Strike or One-Inch Punch but the maneuver that feat generates isn't a sufficient trigger for the strike, your successful unarmed attack is.

EDIT: Rynjin got here first but we're basically saying the same thing.

[DrMartin]

Not the one to originally provide the answer, but "Unarmed Strike" doesn't have a strict definition, as in, there is nowhere in the rule (as far as i know) that says "Unarmed Strike: an Unarmed Strike is this and that".
The term appears in the Attack action, saying that if you have Improved Unarmed Strike you treated while unarmed and have the option to deal lethal damage. And "Strike" in general is used together with attack rolls and dealing damage, so I think that the answer was based on "Attempt to strike" =/= "Attempt a combat maneuver"

But, leaving that side: since Unarmed Strike doesn't have a clear cut definition RAW there is probably going to be some discussion on it, and I think that following the rules for the RAW Thread the discussion should be brought to its own thread

EDIT: Took too long to type, the discussion already happened.

[Fenryr]

Q386

Been a while since I grabbed this character and I never really paid attention to Bonded object beyond "one free spell with limitations".

Hellknight Signifer (Signifer Mask)
Wizard (Arcane Bond)
Craft Wondrous Items

1) Can I enchant my Signifier mask by paying gold and time with an imaginary Craft Wondrous Items and add say, Lore Needle?

2) Let's assume the optional rule of combining magic items from the same slot with the extra 150% mark is in play. Can I enchant my mask with the same Craft Wondrous Items feat or I need anything else?

[exelsisxax]

Q386

Been a while since I grabbed this character and I never really paid attention to Bonded object beyond "one free spell with limitations".

Hellknight Signifer (Signifer Mask)
Wizard (Arcane Bond)
Craft Wondrous Items

1) Can I enchant my Signifier mask by paying gold and time with an imaginary Craft Wondrous Items and add say, Lore Needle?

2) Let's assume the optional rule of combining magic items from the same slot with the extra 150% mark is in play. Can I enchant my mask with the same Craft Wondrous Items feat or I need anything else?

A386.1: you can enchant the mask as a lore needle. it will be useless, because it's not a needle and you can't insert it into your brain. Ask your GM for a custom variant.
386.2: after you use the ritual to make the mask your bonded item, you can enchant it with anything appropriate as if you had any craft feats you need. I don't know what 'anything else' you think might be relevant to the situation. Note that once again the combined magic item guideline is a gm guideline, not a hard player-facing rule.

[Zhentarim]

Q387 Can a Scroll of Contingent Scroll be used on another Scroll, even if the other scroll was made by a cohort?

Q388 With the vigilante class, when recruiting a cohort with the leadership feat, do you use the social identity alignment or the vigilante alignment? I have a LN social and NE vigilante in this game.

[Cieyrin]

A 387 The other scroll can be made by whoever, as long as you meet the other requirements to use it as a material component of Contingent Spell.

A 388 That's a GM call, as both your identities qualify for the feat but there isn't really precedent on which identity the feat associates with for attracting a cohort, unless you got Leadership from a Social or Vigilante talent somehow and then it would associate with the appropriate identity and use that alignment.

[redfdf]

Q389
Spellcasting
A zealot casts divine spells and orisons as an inquisitor and uses the inquisitor’s spell list.

If I am Zealot (Vigilante) + Inquisitor, can spellcasting abilities be combined?

[exelsisxax]

Q389
Spellcasting
A zealot casts divine spells and orisons as an inquisitor and uses the inquisitor’s spell list.

If I am Zealot (Vigilante) + Inquisitor, can spellcasting abilities be combined?

Spellcasting never stacks. you will have two entirely separate progressions, and they are not cross-usable in any way whatsoever.

[ciopo]

Q390

can greater/improved/normal bless equipment be used on the "scimitar" created with flame blade?

[exelsisxax]

A390

Flame blade is an immaterial beam of fire, not a weapon. You can't target it with anything that needs a weapon, you can only wield it similarly to a scimitar. Being immaterial, it also can't be touched for bless equipment to target it. As it isn't a weapon, it is also neither masterwork or a magical weapon, and so again not valid for bless equipment.

[honeybunch]

Q391

What does the Shaman Brain Drain hex do?

Link to the relevant hex: https://www.aonprd.com/ShamanSpiritD...?ItemName=Lore

It mentions making a single knowledge roll within one round after using it, but it also mentions the stolen memories lasting for multiple rounds, and treating them as if the shaman had cast detect thoughts.

Are these more or less two separate effects of the hex? If so, how does the "Detect Thoughts" aspect work? Normally Detect Thoughts takes three rounds before you can actually read surface thoughts, but with this hex you've already stolen their thoughts and memories. Do you skip the first two normal rounds? Also, can you keep probing these stolen memories if the target dies while you still have them?

[DrMartin]

A391

the relevant part for your question:

On the round following her successful use of this ability, the shaman can take a fullround action to sort through the jumble of stolen thoughts and memories to attempt a single Knowledge check using the victim’s bonus with that skill.

You have stolen the memories when you use the hex and deal the damage. In the following round, and taken literally only in the following round, you can attempt to get a single piece of information out of the stolen memories. So even if the victim dies for your hex, you can still rummage through the information as you have already stolen the memories.

as for the "Detect Thoughts" segment:
The information you gain is determined by the knowledge check you roll, per normal rules of knowledge checks, and doesn't follow the three rounds ticker of Detect Thoughts or any other of that spell's parameters.

If another spell or effects requires has interaction with Detect Thoughts though, the knowledge gained would count as being acquired through detect thoughts. (can't think of one at the moment)

[ciopo]

Q392

Incredible healer feat questions:

.a) it heals for "the result of the heal check", is this just the d20 roll, or does this include all the relevant modifiers

.b) if we're using an healer's satchel and consume two charges, do we hadd wisdom / wisdom*2 to the amount healed?

[Cieyrin]

A 392a It's the result, so you use all relevant modifiers, if the result is better than the normal effect. So if you were treating a 5th level dwarf paladin and got a Heal check result of 25, you would heal 25 hp instead of 5 + your Wis mod, assuming your Wis mod isn't +21 or higher.

A 392b The healer's satchel modifies the normal skill effect of Treat Deadly Wounds, Incredible Healer replaces it, so you wouldn't add Wis/double Wis. Really, though, it's already in your Heal skill check for Incredible Healer, so you have the normal effect already, unless you have some trait that changed the associated ability for Heal.

[ciopo]

Q393

What's the order of operation when a prestige class both has a class feature that interact with the base class spell list, and has the "+1 effective spellcasting"?

specific scenario I have in mind is oracle+veiled illusionist

I don't know which is correct

• 5th level oracle enters veiled illusionist
• caster level increases to 6, oracle selects new spells known as usual, including a 3rd level spell
• Goddess's veil(human) allows us to add one illusion sorc/wiz spell to the oracle spell list, up to 3rd level
• at 7th character level, be it another oracle level or a veiled illusionist level, the character can chose that illusion as a new spell known

or

• 5th level oracle enters veiled illusionist
• Goddess's veil(human) allows us to add one illusion sorc/wiz spell to the oracle spell list, up to 2nd level
• caster level increases to 6, oracle selects new spells known as usual, including a 3rd level spell, may pick that illusion spell as a new spell known if it had a "spell known increase" of the appropriate spell level

or the extreme scenario, spell level increases and the added spell is already available to be picked

I suppose the question boils down to "when a prestige class add a spell to a spontaneous base class spell list and also advances casting, can that spell be picked as a spell known at that same time"? notwithstanding the weirdness of spell level increase

Q394
if at 1st level of veiled illusionist we add a spell to a spontaneous class spell list, can we select that spell as "spell known" at 2nd level of veiled illusionist by chosing it with goddess's veil(human) again? by the effect of "If the spell is already on her spell list, she adds it to her spellbook, familiar, or list of spells known" even if normally that spell wouldn't be on the class list, but it is now for that specific character

[Rynjin]

A393: Shockingly, I think there is actually a RAW-adjacent answer to this question that should pass muster.
From the chapter on Character Advancement:

The process of advancing a character works in much the same way as generating a character...First, select your new class level. You must be able to qualify for this level before any of the following adjustments are made. Second, apply any ability score increases due to gaining a level. Third, integrate all of the level’s class abilities and then roll for additional hit points. Finally, add new skills and feats.

Now, spells are not mentioned here explicitly, so we can go by Character Creation here...where spells are chosen in the LAST step of character creation.

There's a little ambiguity here as to whether spells count as "class abilities", but in either case the caster level increase would be applied either explicitly BEFORE spells are chosen, or explicitly SIMULTANEOUSLY with choosing spells.

So there is no scenario where you would have to choose a spell before the caster level increase applies.

A394: If you've added it to your spell list permanently (eg. by using a Samsaran's Mystic Past life), then yeah it should add it to your spells known. It's on your class list after all.

But using Goddess's Veil specifically to select the same spell twice doesn't work for multiple reasons. For one, it's a temporary ability; temp abilities typically do not allow you to meet the prerequisites for things, unless you can make them last more than 24 hours (and even then you lose the qualification when it's not active).

Second, the ability specifies that you choose AN ADDITIONAL SPELL; i.e. not the same one.

[ciopo]

Q395

are there prestige classes that "theurge" divine or arcane with psychic casting?

[Rynjin]

A395: There's very little support for psychic casting AT ALL outside of the dedicated psychic books (Occult Adventures and the other one), and no PrCs that I'm aware of. By the time Occult Adventure came out, PrCs had largely been discarded and replaced with archetypes.

The closest you're gonna get to a Theurge are the Esoteric Starseeker and Wildepath archetypes for Psychic (who is the only psychic magic full caster).

Edit: a doublecheck did turn up a pseudo-Eldritch Knight equivalent though, which is neat. Esoteric Knight.

[ciopo]

Q396

Can songbird/exquisite accompaniment/shadowbard be used for/with bardic masterpieced?

[Rynjin]

A396: Masterpieces are referred to as "unusual applications of the bardic performance ability requiring special training". So anything that refers to a Bardic Performance in its text will work with a Masterpiece (like Songbird), with the explicit exception of "Unless otherwise stated, effects or feats that extend the duration of bardic performance (such as the Lingering Performance feat) do not apply to masterpieces."

[ciopo]

Q397
Oracle heavens mistery "guiding star" revelation questions
.a) Does it apply to will saves?

.b) does it apply to any "X to Y" where something is replaced with wisdom? Example zen archer that may use wisdom for attack rolls

.c) does it apply to any "X to Y" where the native ability is wisdom, but it's replaced with something else?, can't think of an example right now

[Cieyrin]

A 397a According to the glossary in the CRB:

A check is a d20 roll which may or may not be modified by another value. The most common types are attack rolls, skill checks, ability checks, and saving throws.

So a save is a check and it's based on Wisdom, thus Guiding Star would apply.

A 397b & c This FAQ covers that.

[ciopo]

Q398

can the bodyguard / in harm's way feats be used against traps that have attack rolls? be they spell that require touch attack or mundane traps either

[Kurald Galain]

A398

No. Aid another requires "an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat", meaning it doesn't work against spells, ranged attacks, or traps.

[Debatra]

Q 399

Is there any way to make a full attack during a surprise round? Or at the very least multiple attacks?

[ciopo]

Q400

is a creature under the affect of a pattern illusion bolstered by heaven mystery awesome display, more susceptile to other spells that check for HD, such as, for example, cloudkill?

[Cieyrin]

A 399 A search of the Archives gave me Sorcerers of the Scorpion bloodline get a full round on surprise rounds at 9th level, so you can go Improved Eldritch Heritage for that. There may be others out there but I don't have time to scour more search results.

A 400 No, it only affects illusion (pattern) spells, regardless of whether a target is currently being affected by one.

[Debatra]

A 400 Contention

It just says "Each creature affected by your illusion (pattern) spells is treated as if its total number of Hit Dice were equal to its number of Hit Dice minus your Charisma modifier (if positive).", with no mention of it only being treated as such for particular spells. It's ambiguous at best.

[ciopo]

Q401

Can antagonize (with intimidate ) trigger hurtful?

Q402
suppose you have 5 level of a base class, then take 10 level of evangelist
At character level 16 when you would go back to take the base class, will we be taking the 6th level (for BAB/saves) but gaining the features of 15th level, or will we be taking the 15th level?