Simple RAW for Pathfinder Thread VI: Return of the Red Die

[Rynjin]

Q441
(I hope the question is simple enough for this thread...)

Is there a way to play a Deathless / Spirit character? I mean kind of a non-evil undead, and from early levels on. Is there some kind of race or template that does the trick?

A441:The answer is "sort of" but this is more of a build question; I suggest you post a full thread and I can give you some ideas on how to match the flavor to the mechanics here.

[Firechanter]

Q442
Me again. This time I hope it's simple enough:

Is there a PF class / archetype that can fulfil the role of Cleric or Oracle as supporter/buffer/healer, but is Int-based?
Only thing close that I find would be Witch, but I thought that is more of an offensive / control caster.

[Rynjin]

Q442
Me again. This time I hope it's simple enough:

Is there a PF class / archetype that can fulfil the role of Cleric or Oracle as supporter/buffer/healer, but is Int-based?
Only thing close that I find would be Witch, but I thought that is more of an offensive / control caster.

A442 Yeah, this is more of a build question again, there's a few different options. You can build a Witch as a buffer/healer for instance, it's just gonna depend on how you pick your Patron (eg. Healing) and archetype (eg. Hedge Witch). Plenty of Hexes are beneficial (eg. Fortune).

Other options include the White Mage Arcanist and the Chirurgeon Alchemist.

[ciopo]

Q443

I have a ring of nine facets.

if the daily power is blue : "Wearer can use fly at will" , is it a SLA that I can cast on other people, too?

[Cieyrin]

A 443 Given the other spell effect of the Ring of Nine Facets says the wearer gains it, not gets to use it, it does appear to be as if you can cast fly at will, with its normal effects, duration, and restrictions.

[ciopo]

Q444

I'm a final rest inquisitor.

If I somehow gain access to the Instant enemy spell, such as, for example, wand + one level of ranger, and have undead as my favored enemy, can I use Instant enemy to use Unravel Animation on the target?

[Rynjin]

Q444

I'm a final rest inquisitor.

If I somehow gain access to the Instant enemy spell, such as, for example, wand + one level of ranger, and have undead as my favored enemy, can I use Instant enemy to use Unravel Animation on the target?

A444 No. Unravel Animation keys off Bane, not Favored Enemy.

It's also a weapon buff, not an enemy debuff.

Unravel Animation (Su): At 8th level, when you activate your bane ability with undead as the creature type, you can choose for your weapon to instead gain the disruption weapon special ability. The DC to resist this effect is equal to 10 + 1/2 your inquisitor level + your Wisdom modifier.

[Kurald Galain]

A444

Yes, that works. Instant Enemy explicitly lets you "treat the target as if it were that type". If you treat a target as if it were undead, you can use a Disruption weapon on it (regardless of whether this Disruption was created by Unravel Animation). That said, given how expensive Ranger wands are (and how low the save DC on Disruption is), I don't think this is an overpowered combo.

[ciopo]

Q445

are spell like abilities of spells with a casting time of 1 round still one standard action to use, if the source of the SLA doesn't say otherwise?

the one I have is a 2/day silence from the Quietude boon of Pharasma deific obedience

universal monster rules says "Using all other spell-like abilities is a standard action unless noted otherwise, and doing so provokes attacks of opportunity", but I always thought they would inherit the casting time of the spell they are emulating, but perhabs I'm wrong about that?

[Rynjin]

A445: The "Magic" section of the rules goes into more detail on SLAs.

The most relevant clarification here is this bit: "A spell-like ability has a casting time of 1 standard action unless noted otherwise in the ability or spell description."

So yes, SLAs with a one-round casting time still take 1 round to cast (and by the same token spells that take a Swift action to cast are still a Swift action).

This, incidentally, is why the Summoner class has to specifically specify that its Summon Monster SLAs are performed as a Standard action.

[arkieNork]

Q 446
If a Devil Snare spell is cast on an open field and a Large Outsider with Average fly skill flies over it at 200ft altitude, doing a Charge action is it correct that
1) Spell should trigger to try and trap the outsider
2) if the outsider fails Will save, this should be treated as a collision
3) the fly check to avoid falling should be DC25 for collision + DC15 for Hover because outsider is now trapped in a cylinder 20ft across
4) if the fly check is failed it should fall to the ground
5) take damage based on the height at which it started the movement, because that distance would be included into the momentum of its path

[Rynjin]

A446: Devil Snare is a 10 ft. radius circle (i.e. is flat on the ground). It is not a column or even a sphere, and would not snare a demon flying 200 ft. above the ground. They would need to walk into the circle, at which point (on a failed Will save) they would be unable to fly BACK OUT, but the scenario you are putting forth would never happen.

[glass]

Q447 a) Does PF1 have an equivalent to 3.5's infamous CW16 rule? b) If so, does it have the same issues if applied?

Q448 Similarly, does PF1 have the rule that spell areas cannot extend beyond the spell's range?

[Rynjin]

Please provide the text of this supposedly "infamous" rule and I'll tell you.

[glass]

Please provide the text of this supposedly "infamous" rule and I'll tell you.

Given that I only have Complete Warrior in hard copy and I am pretty sure everyone here knows the rule, I don't think I want to type the whole thing up. I think I'll just wait for someone else to come along.... EDIT: Y'know what, you might genuinely not have twigged what I was referring to, so I will elaborate: Complete Warrior has a rule to the effect that if you fail cease to meet the requirements for a PrC you lose most of the features of that PrC, with no exception for thing that the PrC itself provides. There is some debate about whether CW has the authority to impose such a rule, but if it is applied it puts classes like Dragon Disciple into an infinite loop. Thus I was wondering if PF1 had a similar rule, and if so whether they though to disclaim the infinite loop potential or not. Still not going to type out the whole rule, though.

[Cieyrin]

A 447 I got out my copy of Complete Warrior and compared to the text in Chapter 11 of the CRB. There isn't a general rule about what happens when you lose the requirements for a prestige class, which is more difficult to do in PF, anyways, at least in terms of atonement and ability damage and penalties don't actually change your score. EDIT: I checked in Paths of Prestige and Paths of the Righteous, as well as the FAQ. None of them change my answer here.
PF Dragon Disciple doesn't have the 3.x problem, as the capstone is different and you don't change creature type.

A 448 Yes.

[Rynjin]

Given that I only have Complete Warrior in hard copy and I am pretty sure everyone here knows the rule, I don't think I want to type the whole thing up. I think I'll just wait for someone else to come along.... EDIT: Y'know what, you might genuinely not have twigged what I was referring to, so I will elaborate: Complete Warrior has a rule to the effect that if you fail cease to meet the requirements for a PrC you lose most of the features of that PrC, with no exception for thing that the PrC itself provides. There is some debate about whether CW has the authority to impose such a rule, but if it is applied it puts classes like Dragon Disciple into an infinite loop. Thus I was wondering if PF1 had a similar rule, and if so whether they though to disclaim the infinite loop potential or not. Still not going to type out the whole rule, though.

Yeah, I didn't. Not everyone that has played a lot of PF also played a ton of 3.5 beforehand, certainly not enough to know random rulings from books they don't own.

In any case.

A447 correction: Refer to the following FAQ.

No.
The retraining rules say, "If retraining a class level means you no longer qualify for a feat, prestige class, or other ability you have, you can't use that feat, prestige class, or ability until you meet the qualifications again." Therefore, if you retrain out of the base class and that causes you to no longer meet the requirements of the prestige class, you no longer have access to the class features from that prestige class, and therefore can't use that prestige class to meet the requirements of anything (including itself).

Update 10/16/13: In any case, you cannot use rule elements from a prestige class to meet the requirements of that prestige class.

Update 10/16/13: New ruling: You cannot use retraining to replace a base class level with a prestige class level.

As well, there is likely no scenario where this rule would come up in Pathfinder, due to the following rules and rulings.

Yes. So long as the feat that you "lose" is not used as a prerequisite for any other feat, prestige class, or other ability, you can gain any feat that you qualify for at the time that you retrain it.

Prerequisites

Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.

A character can't use a feat if he loses a prerequisite, but he does not lose the feat itself. If, at a later time, he regains the lost prerequisite, he immediately regains full use of the feat that prerequisite enables.

Permanent Bonuses: Ability bonuses with a duration greater than 1 day actually increase the relevant ability score after 24 hours. Modify all skills and statistics related to that ability. This might cause you to gain skill points, hit points, and other bonuses. These bonuses should be noted separately in case they are removed.

In the case of an ability score being permanently gained/lower, you can gain/meet prerequisites for things, which can cause a cascading chain for Feats in particular.

Combine this with the general rule on Prestige Classes:

Unlike the core classes, characters must meet specific requirements before they can take their first level of a prestige class. If a character does not meet the requirements for a prestige class before gaining any benefits of that level, that character cannot take that prestige class.

In short, putting yourself into a scenario where you no longer meet the prerequisites for a PrC is very difficult. You can use retraining to get yourself into this scenario, but would need to do so deliberately and knowingly. Under NO circumstances does a "loop" happen.

If you do end up in such a situation, the RAW is that you keep the class level (but can't use any of the benefits) and cannot take further class levels until you meet the prerequisites again.

[ciopo]

Q449

Does a 6th level aerie protector druid have one or two uses of Wild shape?

The archetype says he gains wild shape at 6th level, but it does not mention the whole progression being delayed

[Kurald Galain]

A449

It does in fact mention the whole progression being delayed ("An aerie protector gains this ability at 6th level, except her effective druid level is her druid level – 2.")

[glass]

A449

It does in fact mention the whole progression being delayed ("An aerie protector gains this ability at 6th level, except her effective druid level is her druid level – 2.")

A449 dispute: You cut that quote of early. It actually says " An aerie protector gains this ability at 6th level, except her effective druid level is her druid level – 2. If she takes on the form of a flying animal, she instead uses her druid level + 2."

Since the modifications to the effective druid level are contingent on the specific form selected, they cannot apply to the number of uses per day (which by definition are independent on any particular form). The druid level can only apply to which spell is used (and therefore which forms are available and their stats).

IMO, the Aerie Guardian gets their full usage progression, because the only thing that might say they can't cannot actually do that in context.

[Maat Mons]

Q 450:

How does a Monk with the Water Dancer archetype calculate AC? Nereid’s Grace says "He uses his Charisma score instead of his Wisdom score to determine the size of his ki pool and the DC and effects of monk class features." Which should mean +Cha to AC when unarmored, because that's an effect of the AC Bonus class feature. But Nereid’s Grace also says "When unarmored and unencumbered, a water dancer adds 1 point of Charisma bonus per monk level to his Armor Class as a dodge bonus." Normally, I'd figure that meant Cha to AC twice, but I seem to remember Pathfinder had some extra rules regarding not being able to add the same ability score to something more than once.

[Kurald Galain]

A 450:

Yes, by RAW the Water Dancer gets Cha to AC twice (and this doesn't contradict the "no double stats" rule because one of them is a dodge bonus and the other one is untyped).
That said, the common view at the Paizo forums is that this is clearly an oversight and it should get it only once. But by RAW, yes it works.

[Rynjin]

A 450:

Yes, by RAW the Water Dancer gets Cha to AC twice (and this doesn't contradict the "no double stats" rule because one of them is a dodge bonus and the other one is untyped).
That said, the common view at the Paizo forums is that this is clearly an oversight and it should get it only once. But by RAW, yes it works.

A450 addendum: The "common view" is even fully contradicted by a FAQ, so this is not only RAW but RAI as well.

No. An ability bonus, such as "Strength bonus", is considered to be the same source for the purpose of bonuses from the same source not stacking. However, you can still add, for instance “a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma modifier” and your Charisma modifier. For this purpose, however, the paladin's untyped "bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws" from divine grace is considered to be the same as "Charisma bonus (if any)", and the same would be true for any other untyped "bonus equal to her [ability score] bonus" constructions.

[Kurald Galain]

A450 addendum: The "common view" is even fully contradicted by a FAQ, so this is not only RAW but RAI as well.

Considering that that FAQ was written three years prior to the sourcebook and by somebody else entirely, no, that doesn't tell us anything about RAI for this archetype.

The common view is simply that the words "This alters AC bonus" were accidentally omitted from the ability that alters the AC bonus.

[ciopo]

Q451

can the "+1/6 rogue talent" FCB of human and some other races be used to take advanced rogue talents, if the character is of a high enough rogue level?

[Rynjin]

Q451

can the "+1/6 rogue talent" FCB of human and some other races be used to take advanced rogue talents, if the character is of a high enough rogue level?

A451: Yes. Advanced Rogue Talents are just Rogue talents you don't get access to until level 10 and gain teh Advanced Talent class feature. If you want a more specific RAW answer, there's also this clause:

At 10th level, and every two levels thereafter, a rogue can choose one of the following advanced talents in place of a rogue talent.

So any time you would gain a Rogue Talent from any source, you can take an Advanced Talent, so long as you have the class feature.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Q452: Is there a metamagic feat that allows you to exclude any number of creatures from an ongoing spell effect? Selective Spell is apparently Instantaneous effects only. Looking for something that affects stuff like fog cloud, cloudkill, solid fog, etc on a large number of creatures in a settlement.

[Khedrac]

A452 partial I suggest re-reading the text of selective spell:

When casting a selective spell with an area effect and a duration of instantaneous, you can choose a number of targets in the area equal to the ability score modifier used to determine bonus spells of the same type (Charisma for bards, oracles, paladins, sorcerers, and summoners; Intelligence for witches and wizards; Wisdom for clerics, druids, inquisitors, and rangers). These targets are excluded from the effects of your spell

It won't do any number, but it will cover more than just 1.

Edit (see below) - apologies, I did misread this verison of the question

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A452 partial I suggest re-reading the text of selective spell:

It won't do any number, but it will cover more than just 1.

But it only affects Instantaneous effects, like I said.

When casting a selective spell with an area effect and a duration of instantaneous, you can choose a number of targets in the area equal to the ability score modifier used to determine bonus spells of the same type (Charisma for bards, oracles, paladins, sorcerers, and summoners; Intelligence for witches and wizards; Wisdom for clerics, druids, inquisitors, and rangers). These targets are excluded from the effects of your spell.

Level Increase: +1 (a selective spell uses up a spell slot one level higher than the spell’s actual level.)

Spells that do not have an area of effect or a duration of instantaneous do not benefit from this feat.

I'm looking for one that affects numerous creatures and affects durations other than Instantaneous, specifically for fog cloud, etc. More specifically, permanencied fog cloud, etc.

The PF version only affects Instantaneous effects. The 3.5 version only affects one creature per casting. I posted a slightly different question in each thread, because each version is different.

[Draconi Redfir]

Q453: Is there any mundane, i.e. non-magical "Rebreather" or other adventuring gear / equipment that could let an air-breathing creature survive underwater for extended amounts of time? I've already got Air Bladders, which let my character remain underwater for a little under half an hour, but i'm looking for something that can last longer then that. Maybe not quite as good as the "Water breathing" spell, but something closer to it.

trying to google "pathfinder rebreather" just gets me a real-world rebreather brand.