A Practical Guide to Evil

[Forum Explorer]

Spoiler: Paragons

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This chapter was everything I expected and more

Any thoughts on expected outcomes?

Thinking about how Hanno is seen due a change in aspects (having his connection with Judgement severed and all that), I wonder if his use of Recall as a collection of memories and personalities of heroes past combined with his more balanced perspective of cultural barriers may allow him to "Judge" in the sense of a "Jury of your peers". So he doesn't use the Seraphim /WESEEALLPOSSIBLEPATHSOFYOURLIFE/ that summarily executes you, but as a means of doing the best that can humanely be done as an avatar of Experience and drives to Do Good.

My musings on this is because doesn't that make a solution to Anaxares' Deadlock of Justice? What does Judgement play in this new balance if this is the case?

Spoiler: Paragons

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I quite like it, because it shows the opposite side of the coin (pun very much intended) that Cat is one face of. She has to jump through all these hoops, play manipulative games, and fend off literal assassination attempts in order to keep control of the villains.

Now we are seeing for the first time a challenge to Hanno's authority and what he'll have to do to maintain control of the heroes. And the stakes are brutally high. Because there is no way that Christophe wouldn't immediately cause the entire Truce and Terms to crash and burn if Hanno gave him control peacefully. And trying to force the matter, well that would likely result in a lot of dead Heroes at the very least.

[lord_khaine]

No, The Fox is King is not an ordinary song - it is as much about becoming a Named Royal as The Girl who Climbed - just a Callow Name rather than Praesi ("centuries of Good Kings and Wizards of the West had associated Names with authority"). And if I'm not mistaken, the song was planted by Bard to try to railroad Cat into becoming a Name, possibly in opposition to Bard's, which Cat seems to have derailed by pretending to misidentify the song.

Do you have actual evidence to support that the fox is king isnt an ordinary song?
That Callow has tied names with authority isnt evidence.

New Chapter.

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I found it hilarious that both the heroines the Hunted Magician slept with knew of each other.
And so used it to toy with him

Else, you also got to feel sympathy for Hanno. Seems very clearly that leading heroes is about as easy as leading villains at best.
Certainly dont seem like anyone but Hanno is up for this task during wartime.
Especially not with Christopher making a mess of things.

[Aotrs Commander]

New Chapter.

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I found it hilarious that both the heroines the Hunted Magician slept with knew of each other.
And so used it to toy with him

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I know, right; best part of the chapter! Ahahahahahahahahahaha!



As for the rest of it, and That Moron... I can't. I just can't. Not if I plan to do anything useful with my day.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

Yeah, controlling villains is relatively easy. A big enough stick that you can enforce your will, and a big enough carrot that they'll continue working for you despite that. Try that on heroes, and empirical data suggests that half of them will come after you just on principle for bribing them. Massive oversimplification, I know, but gets the point across.

[MammonAzrael]

I thoroughly enjoyed the note that the Bitter Blacksmith and Blessed Artificer were messing with the Hunted Magician. How delightful.

Is it just me, or does the Mirror Knight seem even more uncompromising than usual this chapter. One might even say...severe. I think that this unprecedented magical Artifact created from an Aspect of a markedly single-minded woman just maaaaybe might have some kind of mental influence on its wielder.

[Forum Explorer]

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As for the rest of it, and That Moron... I can't. I just can't. Not if I plan to do anything useful with my day.

Awwww, I love your rants. Teasing me with one is just mean.

[The Glyphstone]

I thoroughly enjoyed the note that the Bitter Blacksmith and Blessed Artificer were messing with the Hunted Magician. How delightful.

Is it just me, or does the Mirror Knight seem even more uncompromising than usual this chapter. One might even say...severe. I think that this unprecedented magical Artifact created from an Aspect of a markedly single-minded woman just maaaaybe might have some kind of mental influence on its wielder.

I was thinking the same thing actually. Possession might be going too far, but it's definitely worse for him now.

[lord_khaine]

Is it just me, or does the Mirror Knight seem even more uncompromising than usual this chapter. One might even say...severe. I think that this unprecedented magical Artifact created from an Aspect of a markedly single-minded woman just maaaaybe might have some kind of mental influence on its wielder.

That is actually a good observation. I had though it strange he seemed even more of an ass than usual.
When his own point of view chapter had made him at least a little wellmeaning.

[Grey_Wolf_c]

Is it just me, or does the Mirror Knight seem even more uncompromising than usual this chapter. One might even say...severe. I think that this unprecedented magical Artifact created from an Aspect of a markedly single-minded woman just maaaaybe might have some kind of mental influence on its wielder.

I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case, but it also could be that an... interested party has had a chat with him and sold him on the idea that he should be in charge, and this is MK's "understanding" (and I use the word quite wrongly) of what leadership is supposed to be.

Grey Wolf

[lord_khaine]

I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case, but it also could be that an... interested party has had a chat with him and sold him on the idea that he should be in charge, and this is MK's "understanding" (and I use the word quite wrongly) of what leadership is supposed to be.

Grey Wolf

Nah.. he is not -that- stupid.
I dont think an interested party could convince him of anything after unleashing 7 demons.
Or sicking Fae on the Arsenal.

[Mith]

Spoiler: Epitomes

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AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Whew that was so satisfying to read. It is what I was hoping for, as the words will actually set a better precedence for Heroic action over deed (though it is sometimes necessary).

While I know it is all likely that there was just enough commotion to draw Cat to the fray as the one able to mobilise defenses, I like the idea that her status as the officer of the Terms gave her a "gut check" that she was potentially about to gain a new Villain if Christophe fell from grace. I get that Providence sense more of an Above thing, but Below always gets it's due as well. It's a very slight chance (she didn't know about Tancred for example), but it could be a fun twist about Providence working for both sides as the Truce and Terms muddy the waters.

I greatly enjoyed this chapter.

[lord_khaine]

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That was certainly a very shocking development. Hanno's ability to sift though other dead heroes for skills or magic tricks seems more and more broken.
Now he is a multiclass monk-priest-fencer.
I dont think he could have won the 7 demon fight. But i guess this did become a nice example of rock-scissor-paper.
Where he did have the finesse required to fend off the Severance.

Else. I dont think Cat showing up there has anything to do with weird senses.
For a start i find it quite likely she knew the heroes were having a little meeting.
From there it seemed regular prudence to have people on guard in case something blew up.
And behold, someone then runs though a door. Followed by a brawl seemingly intensive enough to crack stone.

Though certainly no chance of Christophe falling from grace for something so minor.
Heroes are just about designed to go against regular authorithy for what they feel are the right thing to do.

[McNum]

Spoiler: Epitomes

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You know, I read the Guide to see a proper Villain done right, and Cat's been delivering in spades.

And yet, here we have a chapter of a a proper Hero done right. Go White Knight! He's the Hero every hero (and D&D Paladin) should want to be when they grow up. Taking down, nonlethally, even, the Mirror Knight, the man in invincible armor with the deadliest sword, using nothing but a sheathed blade, and only losing a few fingers? That is proper Hero stuff.

...and then he met Catherine, which hopefully means we get her take on all of this next. That'll be fun.

Also yes, it was quite cathartic to see the Mirror Knight get the smack down he had coming. Well smacked!

[Mith]

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That was certainly a very shocking development. Hanno's ability to sift though other dead heroes for skills or magic tricks seems more and more broken.
Now he is a multiclass monk-priest-fencer.
I dont think he could have won the 7 demon fight. But i guess this did become a nice example of rock-scissor-paper.
Where he did have the finesse required to fend off the Severance.

Else. I dont think Cat showing up there has anything to do with weird senses.
For a start i find it quite likely she knew the heroes were having a little meeting.
From there it seemed regular prudence to have people on guard in case something blew up.
And behold, someone then runs though a door. Followed by a brawl seemingly intensive enough to crack stone.

Though certainly no chance of Christophe falling from grace for something so minor.
Heroes are just about designed to go against regular authorithy for what they feel are the right thing to do.

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The only reason I like the idea of a "narrative push" is because the past two chapters have Christophe portray Cat as this insidious devil who always scheming and unnaturally twisting people to her ends, while others have defended her. Having her respond on a supernatural cue after the commotion had blown up around this would be a hilarious bit of juxtaposition between the two portrayals of Cat.

However, only the Bard seems to have the means to "Wander" her way to know events she never could know.

[The Glyphstone]

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This is also another excellent update that shows Hanno is as much a master of Story-Fu as Cat is, making them perfectly paired opposites on that front as well. His finale was beating Christophe's skull into the ground, but before that he was skillfully countering with dialogue every Story that could swing the clash in Christophe's favor.

[lord_khaine]

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This is also another excellent update that shows Hanno is as much a master of Story-Fu as Cat is, making them perfectly paired opposites on that front as well. His finale was beating Christophe's skull into the ground, but before that he was skillfully countering with dialogue every Story that could swing the clash in Christophe's favor.

I dont think Hanno was messing around with story elements here.
To me it seemed more like he was working politics. Trying his best to defuse the situation before it blew up to badly.
Or more accuratly try and avoid both backing Christopher up a tree his pride would prevent him from crawling down.
While also avoiding letting him gather support among the other heroes.

From Hanno's earlier chapters i dont think he tries to bend stories his way.
Or even think about them. I just think he is genuine in his role. Is his role, not just playing it like Cat.
At the same time, he is just also exceptionally skilled at dealing with dysfunctional people (heroes).

[Tvtyrant]

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I dont think Hanno was messing around with story elements here.
To me it seemed more like he was working politics. Trying his best to defuse the situation before it blew up to badly.
Or more accuratly try and avoid both backing Christopher up a tree his pride would prevent him from crawling down.
While also avoiding letting him gather support among the other heroes.

From Hanno's earlier chapters i dont think he tries to bend stories his way.
Or even think about them. I just think he is genuine in his role. Is his role, not just playing it like Cat.
At the same time, he is just also exceptionally skilled at dealing with dysfunctional people (heroes).

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Agreed. I don't think he was trying to manipulate stories, he just is what everyone else pretends to be. A legitimately good person without a massive ego who was willing to maim himself and then risk his life to save the Mirror Knight from himself.

[Mith]

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Agreed. I don't think he was trying to manipulate stories, he just is what everyone else pretends to be. A legitimately good person without a massive ego who was willing to maim himself and then risk his life to save the Mirror Knight from himself.

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I don't think Hanno was messing with story elements, but he is aware of those forces. See the fact that he describes the Mirror Knight as having lost the story of rebellion.

Thinking of Hanno's continued mirroring of Cat, I wonder if Cat can use the Secrets of Night to extract the experience of the drow using Night over time in a function akin to Recall? Or is such an ability scattered in pieces throughout all the drow through the harvesting of Night. The ability is extraordinarily useful to not have been in play before, but it doesn't seem like it has ever been used before Hanno.

[PoeticallyPsyco]

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I don't think Hanno was messing with story elements, but he is aware of those forces. See the fact that he describes the Mirror Knight as having lost the story of rebellion.

Thinking of Hanno's continued mirroring of Cat, I wonder if Cat can use the Secrets of Night to extract the experience of the drow using Night over time in a function akin to Recall? Or is such an ability scattered in pieces throughout all the drow through the harvesting of Night. The ability is extraordinarily useful to not have been in play before, but it doesn't seem like it has ever been used before Hanno.

The Seraphim seem to have been truly impressed with Hanno, since he got some top tier powers. Recall is obviously crazy, but Ride isn't far behind. As the Black Knight put it, it's an attack that ignores all armor/defenses combined with an enormous speed boost; an almost guaranteed one-hit-kill if used properly (at that time, Hanno wasn't using it properly; I wonder if that's changed...).

[lord_khaine]

Thinking of Hanno's continued mirroring of Cat, I wonder if Cat can use the Secrets of Night to extract the experience of the drow using Night over time in a function akin to Recall? Or is such an ability scattered in pieces throughout all the drow through the harvesting of Night. The ability is extraordinarily useful to not have been in play before, but it doesn't seem like it has ever been used before Hanno.

Nahh.. i dont think it will be the case. Recall is very solidly Hanno's special stick.
Im 100% certain Cat isnt going to get it. She has enough sticks as it is.

The Seraphim seem to have been truly impressed with Hanno, since he got some top tier powers. Recall is obviously crazy, but Ride isn't far behind. As the Black Knight put it, it's an attack that ignores all armor/defenses combined with an enormous speed boost; an almost guaranteed one-hit-kill if used properly (at that time, Hanno wasn't using it properly; I wonder if that's changed...).

Ride sounded like a fairly common aspect though. Common enough that Black knew more of it than Hanno before he had a chance to grow in the wars.
Now Hanno is casually making his horse explode into javlins of light.

[Rydiro]

The presence of Cat isnt that surprising. I mean she knows both knights. She probably had her soldiers on high alert and ready as soon as Hanno arrived.

I feel the motivations of mirror knight are still unclear. Does he stand for anything? Or is he just a prideful jerk who thinks all heroes good + all villains bad.

[lord_khaine]

I feel the motivations of mirror knight are still unclear. Does he stand for anything?

What he stands for seems pretty clear?
Rescuing an innocent heroine, thats about to get executed just because she got manipulated by the Wandering Bard.

[Forum Explorer]

The presence of Cat isnt that surprising. I mean she knows both knights. She probably had her soldiers on high alert and ready as soon as Hanno arrived.

I feel the motivations of mirror knight are still unclear. Does he stand for anything? Or is he just a prideful jerk who thinks all heroes good + all villains bad.

He's very much a child. Mirror Knight has a simplistic view of the world, which has little to know regard on reality. He wants to do what's right and fair, but he doesn't have a clue what that is.

Like the whole situation with the Red Ax. He doesn't think it's fair that the hero would end up being executed and the villain get away with not. Maybe it would be fair if the Haunted Magician would also be executed, but that doesn't mean the Red Ax should get away with murder.

Also he has a nasty tendency to forget that people without Names are still people with emotions and desires. Like saying that Callow's soldiers would 'do their duty' and keep fighting Nemmy if he killed Cat. He obviously hasn't actually talked to any of them in a while.

[tyckspoon]

Ride sounded like a fairly common aspect though. Common enough that Black knew more of it than Hanno before he had a chance to grow in the wars.
Now Hanno is casually making his horse explode into javlins of light.

He learned that trick from Recall, tho, specifically reviewing the memories of that one hero who actually took the time to study how using the Light worked much like how Praesi magic tradition studies how magic works. No way to know how skilled he would be with his Aspects if one of them didn't let him commune with heroes past and study all their best tricks.. he doesn't seem like a very horseman type and probably would not be super interested in learning all the ins and outs of Ride, but then we'd be talking about a hypothetical Completely Different Hanno so maybe he would. (As is, I bet he's picked up some other nasty surprises for that Aspect from previous White Knights that leaned into the mounted combatant thing more.)

[Grey_Wolf_c]

I feel the motivations of mirror knight are still unclear. Does he stand for anything? Or is he just a prideful jerk who thinks all heroes good + all villains bad.

The more he talks the talk and walks the walk, the more it feels like he equates his desires with Good, and anything that goes against them as Evil - i.e. not that different from our own "this is how NOT to play a Paladin" Miko. Although, fair's fair, he does not do the same pole-vaulting to conclusions that fit her worldview that Miko is also known for.

then we'd be talking about a hypothetical Completely Different Hanno

Indeed. I do like how that was expressed in the chapter: Hanno no longer remembers if he was born right handed or left handed. Recall is an amazing power, but it is slowly removing all that was Hanno. That's a non-trivial sacrifice of his own Self, I have to say.

Grey Wolf

[Rydiro]

What he stands for seems pretty clear?
Rescuing an innocent heroine, thats about to get executed just because she got manipulated by the Wandering Bard.

Yeah he thinks that, though that is not what happened. Even the red axe herself will probably testify to that. She did murder someone. And tried to murder the kingfisher. Its like the mirror knight does not even acknowlege the facts everyone else does. And replaces them with unfounded assumptions.

[Tvtyrant]

Yeah he thinks that, though that is not what happened. Even the red axe herself will probably testify to that. She did murder someone. And tried to murder the kingfisher. Its like the mirror knight does not even acknowlege the facts everyone else does. And replaces them with unfounded assumptions.

MK IMO sees it as balance between teams. Team Evil is letting someone off, so Team Good should too. She's innocent due to her team affiliation, and those who aren't agreeing with him are betraying their team.

[Rydiro]

MK IMO sees it as balance between teams. Team Evil is letting someone off, so Team Good should too. She's innocent due to her team affiliation, and those who aren't agreeing with him are betraying their team.

Which is a good argument for executing the hunted magician as well, because he knowingly supported an attack against the Arsenal. He contributed to far more deaths than red axe did. Letting him off the hook IS unfair.

[Tvtyrant]

Which is a good argument for executing the hunted magician as well, because he knowingly supported an attack against the Arsenal. He contributed to far more deaths than red axe did. Letting him off the hook IS unfair.

It's not a good argument, because it isn't a game and they aren't teams. It is the apocalypse and they are fighting for their lives, the Hunted Magician just gave them a weapon that may possibly win the war. Fair is a construct for when you are in a position of stability, they need survival.

[Mith]

Nahh.. i dont think it will be the case. Recall is very solidly Hanno's special stick.
Im 100% certain Cat isnt going to get it. She has enough sticks as it is.



Ride sounded like a fairly common aspect though. Common enough that Black knew more of it than Hanno before he had a chance to grow in the wars.
Now Hanno is casually making his horse explode into javlins of light.

To be clear, I am thinking of comparable skills. Recall allows Hanno to where the memories of previous Heroes like the Masks of Ashuran mystics (like the Face of Judgment in his origin), and over time he has assimilated these memories and skills into a more cohesive whole.

I was wondering if Cat is privy to what the Drow are able to do through Night as First Under Night that she can make an accelerated study. She doesn't get the same skill boost, but she also doesn't deal with any form of alienation/dissociation.