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  1. - Top - End - #1261
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Yeah.. well ill eat my shiny foot if she didnt see it comming.
    Cat's entire gambit has revolved around finding the traitor in her organisation.

    At the same time though, Cat's melee skills are starting to get a little absurd.
    She isnt named any longer. And she just killed a Fae noble with his own sword.
    To be fair, Fae aren't named either. And she might not be queen of winter anymore, but she is the First Under Night.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

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  2. - Top - End - #1262
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Oh this is going to help Cat's case immensely. And yes, I am fully expecting her to walk this off. Since the Mirror Knight's band of five are running with the assumption that assassins are targeting her people, it supports that story well that one just tried to kill her for real. And, well, just as the traitor reveals himself seems like the perfect time for the Heroes to burst onto the scene.

    Friday's chapter should be fun.

  3. - Top - End - #1263
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    To be fair, Fae aren't named either. And she might not be queen of winter anymore, but she is the First Under Night.
    They are supposed to be the equals and reflections of Named, tho. I suspect the reason Cat finds this so easy is that she's riding a story. Multiple stories, and her stories at that, the ones that are the foundational aspects of her legends. Stealing the wings and powers of the faeries, outplaying them at their own story-games, getting into a duel with a physically superior opponent and beating them by using an unexpected degree of savagery, stubbornness, correct application of the power she can muster, and just a little bit of rampant disregard for her own physical health as long as it results in them being down and her not. About the only thing that could make this a more perfect storm of Cat-ness is if she had exploded some seemingly innocuous item or set a fire for tactical advantage (but then we got that one out of the way in the Miscellaneous Stacks.) Wouldn't be at all surprised if Cat's forming Name is thrilled with all of this and somehow augmenting her and she just thinks it's her increased talent with using Night.

    .. although usually Cat notices when that's happening and spares a thought to call it out for the audience's benefit, because she's so used to deliberately bucking stories and trying to undo forming narratives that it's pretty unusual for her to be benefiting from them. Still, for creatures as story-bound as the faeries trying to face down Cat at the center of all those narrative threads could only ever end one way. (There's going to be a genre of stories in Calernia that will be known as 'Black Queen' stories, where the point of the story isn't 'what is the twist' - there's ALWAYS a twist, a Black Queen story never ends the way you expect it to - but instead how well executed and clever the change in direction is. A large number of them are murder mysteries, as the form has many similarities to start with. The Queen of Lost and Found, starring in 'Murder She Wrote'..)
    Last edited by tyckspoon; 2020-04-01 at 10:56 AM.

  4. - Top - End - #1264
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Yeah.. well ill eat my shiny foot if she didnt see it comming.
    Cat's entire gambit has revolved around finding the traitor in her organisation.

    At the same time though, Cat's melee skills are starting to get a little absurd.
    She isnt named any longer. And she just killed a Fae noble with his own sword.
    She isn't an ordinary human either. Even the Dead King explicitly calls Cat out on that. And many of the Fae and Fae-touched individuals are reacting to Cat as if she still was a part of Winter.
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  5. - Top - End - #1265
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Wasnt she suposed to have a regular human body though?
    I though she turned normal when winter was ripped from her body.
    She even said as much to the Dead King. The only thing he told her was that she would not age.

    Of course evidence does point in the opposite direction.
    She has been fighting with superhuman agility, and reaction speed several times now.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  6. - Top - End - #1266
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Wasnt she suposed to have a regular human body though?
    I though she turned normal when winter was ripped from her body.
    She even said as much to the Dead King. The only thing he told her was that she would not age.

    Of course evidence does point in the opposite direction.
    She has been fighting with superhuman agility, and reaction speed several times now.
    She's also unlocking a new name, which I believe is giving her powers that are slowly unlocking. She doesn't know what the nature of her new name is, so she can't embrace it or deny it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Glyphstone View Post
    Vibranium: If it was on the periodic table, its chemical symbol would be "Bs".

  7. - Top - End - #1267
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Wasnt she suposed to have a regular human body though?
    I though she turned normal when winter was ripped from her body.
    She even said as much to the Dead King. The only thing he told her was that she would not age.

    Of course evidence does point in the opposite direction.
    She has been fighting with superhuman agility, and reaction speed several times now.
    She does and doesn't. She's basically a high tier mighty. She's chock full of Night but is still mostly human.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

    Torumekian knight Avatar by Licoot.

    Note to self: Never get involved in an ethics thread again...Especially if I'm defending the empire.

  8. - Top - End - #1268
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Wasnt she suposed to have a regular human body though?
    I though she turned normal when winter was ripped from her body.
    She even said as much to the Dead King. The only thing he told her was that she would not age.

    Of course evidence does point in the opposite direction.
    She has been fighting with superhuman agility, and reaction speed several times now.
    No, she's just mortal again.
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  9. - Top - End - #1269
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    As far as the Bard going after the Terms, I think that's still on her target list. It's just not her primary objective, assuming Cat is correct as usual. She wants to force Cordelia into a corner where the only way out is the Angel Corpse Cannon, and that means taking away her other options. Quartered Seasons and Severance need to go, but a Cordelia faced with imminent doom because the Grand Alliance disintegrated will feel more trapped. So this elaborate scheme to get the Heroes and Villains in conflict again would still be beneficial to her end goal, which is why she did it this way...she's trying to set up to win something no matter what outcome she gets.

  10. - Top - End - #1270
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    She's also unlocking a new name, which I believe is giving her powers that are slowly unlocking. She doesn't know what the nature of her new name is, so she can't embrace it or deny it yet.
    So far we have not seen anything but faint stirrings of said name. It does not seem like she draws anything from it.

    No, she's just mortal again.
    And being a un-named mortal does mean she ends up with a regular human body.
    Who bleeds or get drunk as quickly as any other human.

    She does and doesn't. She's basically a high tier mighty. She's chock full of Night but is still mostly human.
    This is likely the explanation though. We have of course seen the high tier might fight off superhuman opponents.
    Since Tombmaker survived a fair fight with the Saint, then one got to assume there are ways night can boost your speed and agility.

    As far as the Bard going after the Terms, I think that's still on her target list. It's just not her primary objective, assuming Cat is correct as usual. She wants to force Cordelia into a corner where the only way out is the Angel Corpse Cannon, and that means taking away her other options. Quartered Seasons and Severance need to go, but a Cordelia faced with imminent doom because the Grand Alliance disintegrated will feel more trapped. So this elaborate scheme to get the Heroes and Villains in conflict again would still be beneficial to her end goal, which is why she did it this way...she's trying to set up to win something no matter what outcome she gets.
    Well.. after all this turned out to just be a distraction in the ultimate goal of putting the story back on its rail.
    Then we are back in the situation where we do have Bard's own word on how she dont care about the Terms.
    And we do lack any sort of evidence towards why that should not be the case.

    As i have said before. Bard's work is about the big picture.
    Why should she care if people agree to stop calling angels or demons?
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  11. - Top - End - #1271
    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    So far we have not seen anything but faint stirrings of said name. It does not seem like she draws anything from it.



    And being a un-named mortal does mean she ends up with a regular human body.
    Who bleeds or get drunk as quickly as any other human.



    This is likely the explanation though. We have of course seen the high tier might fight off superhuman opponents.
    Since Tombmaker survived a fair fight with the Saint, then one got to assume there are ways night can boost your speed and agility.



    Well.. after all this turned out to just be a distraction in the ultimate goal of putting the story back on its rail.
    Then we are back in the situation where we do have Bard's own word on how she dont care about the Terms.
    And we do lack any sort of evidence towards why that should not be the case.

    As i have said before. Bard's work is about the big picture.
    Why should she care if people agree to stop calling angels or demons?
    That would be the Accords, the long-term treaty. The Terms are the short-term armistice, and if she's trying to corral Hasenbach into a single, specific story of wielding a Judgement Angel's corpse against the Dead King, disrupting the current truce between Named would help. Since she doesn't care about the Accords, whether they are damaged in the long-term is irrelevant to accomplishing her short-term goals. The Bard is smart at minimum, remember, and possibly a literal incarnation of Stories in some fashion. Had Cat not reacted as genre-savvy as she did, the Treaties and Terms would have been irreparably damaged or even destroyed, entirely ignoring the Fae sucker punch coming from the other direction. There's no way the Bard did not implement such a plan if the outcome was not in some fashion desirable to her. That's why I said Bard was setting up a win-win...barring Cat's intervention, she either wins (secret weapons destroyed), wins (hero/villain alliance shattered), or wins more (hero/villain alliance shattered and secret weapons destroyed).

    You did originally think the Bard wasn't behind this at all, that she wouldn't interfere with anything that could defeat the Dead King. But now we know she doesn't simply want Neshamah dead, she wants him dead in a singularly specific fashion of her own design. So if you interpret all her actions as driving towards that goal, it makes sense that killing the Terms would be something she might see value in.

  12. - Top - End - #1272
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    And being a un-named mortal does mean she ends up with a regular human body.
    Who bleeds or get drunk as quickly as any other human.
    Rumena Tomb Maker is an un-named mortal and yet he can slap the Saint of Swords around like she was an unruly child. You assumed that being mortal again meant she was human again, and while it's a fair assumption it is demonstratively false.
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  13. - Top - End - #1273
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    That would be the Accords, the long-term treaty. The Terms are the short-term armistice, and if she's trying to corral Hasenbach into a single, specific story of wielding a Judgement Angel's corpse against the Dead King, disrupting the current truce between Named would help. Since she doesn't care about the Accords, whether they are damaged in the long-term is irrelevant to accomplishing her short-term goals. The Bard is smart at minimum, remember, and possibly a literal incarnation of Stories in some fashion. Had Cat not reacted as genre-savvy as she did, the Treaties and Terms would have been irreparably damaged or even destroyed, entirely ignoring the Fae sucker punch coming from the other direction. There's no way the Bard did not implement such a plan if the outcome was not in some fashion desirable to her. That's why I said Bard was setting up a win-win...barring Cat's intervention, she either wins (secret weapons destroyed), wins (hero/villain alliance shattered), or wins more (hero/villain alliance shattered and secret weapons destroyed).

    You did originally think the Bard wasn't behind this at all, that she wouldn't interfere with anything that could defeat the Dead King. But now we know she doesn't simply want Neshamah dead, she wants him dead in a singularly specific fashion of her own design. So if you interpret all her actions as driving towards that goal, it makes sense that killing the Terms would be something she might see value in.
    Initially, i use the Terms and Accords as synonyms, because i see them as part of a whole, and i cant be assed to type the Terms and the Accords every time i have to reference them.
    And yes while i were wrong on the Bard being involved, then i were still correct on this not being her making a move against the TA.
    If anything, this is more evidence to support that the Bard doesnt care either way about the TA.

    As such, if anything this is the story equivalent to Cat setting fire to that library.
    She did not hate it, fear it, or directly wish it ill. She just needed a distraction, and didnt care about if it would damage the library or not.
    But so far the only thing we have confirmed that the Bard want, is for the story to get on the rails she set.

    Rumena Tomb Maker is an un-named mortal and yet he can slap the Saint of Swords around like she was an unruly child. You assumed that being mortal again meant she was human again, and while it's a fair assumption it is demonstratively false.
    You seems to either ommit, or forget, that what you call slap around, was in fact an ambush on a opponent already crippled for him
    Else, no its in fact not demonstratively false that Cat is human. Since we still lack a demonstration that shows she is something else.
    Most of the time she bleeds like a human, freeze like a human, even get to curse her period like a human woman.

    There are things that dont add up with that. But we lack a definitive proof she isnt human any more.
    So so far the mighty explanation is likely the best call to explain whats going on with her fighting Titled Fae in melee.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  14. - Top - End - #1274
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post

    You seems to either ommit, or forget, that what you call slap around, was in fact an ambush on a opponent already crippled for him
    Else, no its in fact not demonstratively false that Cat is human. Since we still lack a demonstration that shows she is something else.
    Most of the time she bleeds like a human, freeze like a human, even get to curse her period like a human woman.

    There are things that dont add up with that. But we lack a definitive proof she isnt human any more.
    So so far the mighty explanation is likely the best call to explain whats going on with her fighting Titled Fae in melee.
    It may have been an ambush but it was still a feat that even the most powerful of Named would struggle to match.

    We're going to rapidly veer into arguing about the definition of a human at this point, which I'd really rather not. Perhaps I should say 'ordinary' instead.

    It's worth noting that she was using Night during that fight. She just didn't use it for the killing blow.
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  15. - Top - End - #1275
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Forum Explorer View Post
    It's worth noting that she was using Night during that fight. She just didn't use it for the killing blow.
    The bet itself might have helped her out as well. Like any big bad that says something like "No man can kill me!" is going to get killed by a hobbit and a woman within about 5 seconds.

  16. - Top - End - #1276
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by Excession View Post
    The bet itself might have helped her out as well. Like any big bad that says something like "No man can kill me!" is going to get killed by a hobbit and a woman within about 5 seconds.
    Or the earlier version: "No man born of woman can kill me." "I was C. sectioned out, die."
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

  17. - Top - End - #1277
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    I liked Roland before, but the extra chapter kind of makes me want to see a spin-off story of Roland and Olivier's adventures.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

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  18. - Top - End - #1278
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by druid91 View Post
    I liked Roland before, but the extra chapter kind of makes me want to see a spin-off story of Roland and Olivier's adventures.
    Most of the extra chapters follow the same character(s) for two or three chapters, so.. we'll probably get a few. Probably describing how the two brothers tried to make their own way in the world until Olivier could no longer overcome the inherent *******ry of the world, became a Villain in response to it, and Roland being created a Hero to stop him (or, somewhat less tragically, to defeat whatever or whoever ends up killing Olly.)

  19. - Top - End - #1279
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Just gonna point out a 20th level human cleric is still a human, magic Story powers or not. The fact that said cleric (who probably isn't EVEN 20th level) is slapping around a few fey is hardly surprising at the best of times.



    See, that's where Cat was smart - she traded up from the mere trifle of power of that is the Narrative to the true great power - CoDzilla.
    Last edited by Aotrs Commander; 2020-04-03 at 12:56 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #1280
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Quote Originally Posted by tyckspoon View Post
    Most of the extra chapters follow the same character(s) for two or three chapters, so.. we'll probably get a few. Probably describing how the two brothers tried to make their own way in the world until Olivier could no longer overcome the inherent *******ry of the world, became a Villain in response to it, and Roland being created a Hero to stop him (or, somewhat less tragically, to defeat whatever or whoever ends up killing Olly.)
    My money is on this young Roland dying, and Olivier becoming the Rogue Sorcerer, taking his brother's Talent and forging his own heroic path in tribute and refusal to look at the glass half empty.

  21. - Top - End - #1281
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    Quote Originally Posted by MammonAzrael View Post
    My money is on this young Roland dying, and Olivier becoming the Rogue Sorcerer, taking his brother's Talent and forging his own heroic path in tribute and refusal to look at the glass half empty.
    Luck of the Fryrish, then?

  22. - Top - End - #1282
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    It does seem kinda likely that its Oliver who ends up becomming Roland.
    The Rogue Sorcerers whole thing might that he actually dont have magic of his own.
    Instead he seemingly just have the confiscated magic of villains he had defeated. And a massive amount of trinkets.

    But yeah. That story does seem like its headed for a heartbreaking ending.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  23. - Top - End - #1283
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Archer's perspective chapter on her conversation with the Concocter. I wonder if this will start a change for her "Define People" attitude pointed out in a previous chapter.

  24. - Top - End - #1284
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Archer could likely use a little character growth.
    Even though she is the most amusing member of the Woes.

    And now we got a corpse. Since its unlikely that Cat dies here.
    Then my prediction is she took the chance to fake her own death. For story reasons.
    She did have a spare corse as i recalled?

    edit.
    Oh yeah the jerk that got axed.
    Last edited by lord_khaine; 2020-04-07 at 05:16 PM.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  25. - Top - End - #1285
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    I read a theory that much like how Bard dies and finds herself elsewhere, Cat has actually died and gets pulled to the Drow front, or potentially dropping in on the Golden Bloom.

  26. - Top - End - #1286
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    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

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    My money's on that corpse being the Fallen Monk. Story-wise he's all about killing priests, which on the surface looks like a good counter to Cat... but he hunts priests of the Light, and Cat is the high priest of its opposite. That's just begging for a one-liner about underestimating her and getting overconfident, followed by a quick reversal of knife ownership. If he was a hero, or on a redemption arc, he might be able to pull a 'not so different' justification for finishing her, but as-is I don't think he has enough of a narrative going to beat Cat that easily. And as Archer noted, she's got enough power that he'd need a narrative to beat her with just one strike.
    Last edited by PoeticallyPsyco; 2020-04-07 at 06:59 PM.
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  27. - Top - End - #1287
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    Quote Originally Posted by PoeticallyPsyco View Post
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    My money's on that corpse being the Fallen Monk. Story-wise he's all about killing priests, which on the surface looks like a good counter to Cat... but he hunts priests of the Light, and Cat is the high priest of its opposite. That's just begging for a one-liner about underestimating her and getting overconfident, followed by a quick reversal of knife ownership. If he was a hero, or on a redemption arc, he might be able to pull a 'not so different' justification for finishing her, but as-is I don't think he has enough of a narrative going to beat Cat that easily. And as Archer noted, she's got enough power that he'd need a narrative to beat her with just one strike.
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    While I like the idea that this is a corpse double, I doubt that it is the Fallen Monk, as the Monk is a completely different body build than Cat to make the confusion. However, it could be the Wicked Enchanter.

    On the other hand, the Wandering Bard does get a new body every so often, so perhaps Cat will face similar treatment.

  28. - Top - End - #1288
    Ettin in the Playground
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Lemuria
    Gender
    Male

    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Eh. There's also that trick with the Night that makes a body double while you slink away.
    Spoiler
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    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarZero View Post
    I like the "hobo" in there.
    "Hey, you just got 10000gp! You going to buy a fully staffed mansion or something?"
    "Nah, I'll upgrade my +2 sword to a +3 sword and sleep in my cloak."

    Non est salvatori salvator, neque defensori dominus, nec pater nec mater, nihil supernum.

    Torumekian knight Avatar by Licoot.

    Note to self: Never get involved in an ethics thread again...Especially if I'm defending the empire.

  29. - Top - End - #1289
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

    Join Date
    Sep 2013

    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Harkam is great as always.

    Read a solid theory on the shape of this plot on Reddit:

    Spoiler: Theory
    Show
    Cat went to Masego and enlisted hiss help in using the wicked enchanter's corpse to make a body double like Black did when facing Hanno to avoid that confrontation. I believe that ritual targeted and killed someone else in the target's place (why Ashen Priestess died). Cat used the same ritual as a means to execute the traitor that revealed themselves by backstabbing her and parrying that narrative thrust.

  30. - Top - End - #1290
    Titan in the Playground
     
    lord_khaine's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: A Practical Guide to Evil

    Eh. There's also that trick with the Night that makes a body double while you slink away.
    Was that trick reliable and lasting enough to be appliable here?

    Cat went to Masego and enlisted hiss help in using the wicked enchanter's corpse to make a body double like Black did when facing Hanno to avoid that confrontation. I believe that ritual targeted and killed someone else in the target's place (why Ashen Priestess died). Cat used the same ritual as a means to execute the traitor that revealed themselves by backstabbing her and parrying that narrative thrust.
    Nah that theory is full of holes. It is not impossible that she were using the corse she had on hand as a puppet.
    Thats really not very different from the already popular theory that she used it as a left behind decoy to fake her death.

    But its mixing other stuff up. The Ashen Priestess died because she became the target of a massive ritual attack made by The Tyrant.
    Cat has not had a chance to perform all the ritual human sacrifices to power that ritual.
    Cat does not need a ritual to kill someone. She demonstrated that clearly with a much more powerful Fae Noble.
    There isnt a narrative pushing towards Cat's death. Because the narrative is currently indifferent to Cat, then it would be wrong to call someone trying to kill Cat a narrative thrust.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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