A Practical Guide to Evil

[Iruka]

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I disagree about that bit of that post. I read that sentence as saying that the Augur can't see Angels (unless the Angels want the Augur to see them), Nessie, The Bard or Cat.

That is how I read it as well.

[Calemyr]

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I disagree about that bit of that post. I read that sentence as saying that the Augur can't see Angels (unless the Angels want the Augur to see them), Nessie, The Bard or Cat.

Spoiler: Huh.

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So you're saying you read it to say "the Augur is significantly more blind than you might assume", rather than "even the powerful can't see angels against their will". Perfectly valid interpretation, and makes a quite a lot of sense. Nessie and Bard are old and shrouded beings, and Cat's got the Murder Twins sitting on her shoulder and before that was the last noble Fey.

That said, the only takeaway from that interpretation beyond my initial reaction (still makes the 'angel corpse' assumption suspicious), is that Cat has an advantage against Cordelia that she didn't realize she had - or, more accurately, a disadvantage. Cordy makes a lot more sense when you realize that she is acting completely blind with Cat when all of Praes, up to and including the frickin' Black Knight, are effectively an open book. It classifies Cat as a gauge of threat that dwarfs the Dread Empress, and Cat is the Avatar of Mixed Signals, which makes it very hard to just interpret from what she says and what she does. If Cordy looks like she's flailing blindly with increasing desperation, it's probably because she has been.

[halfeye]

Spoiler: Huh.

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So you're saying you read it to say "the Augur is significantly more blind than you might assume", rather than "even the powerful can't see angels against their will". Perfectly valid interpretation, and makes a quite a lot of sense. Nessie and Bard are old and shrouded beings, and Cat's got the Murder Twins sitting on her shoulder and before that was the last noble Fey.

That said, the only takeaway from that interpretation beyond my initial reaction (still makes the 'angel corpse' assumption suspicious), is that Cat has an advantage against Cordelia that she didn't realize she had - or, more accurately, a disadvantage. Cordy makes a lot more sense when you realize that she is acting completely blind with Cat when all of Praes, up to and including the frickin' Black Knight, are effectively an open book. It classifies Cat as a gauge of threat that dwarfs the Dread Empress, and Cat is the Avatar of Mixed Signals, which makes it very hard to just interpret from what she says and what she does. If Cordy looks like she's flailing blindly with increasing desperation, it's probably because she has been.

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The Augur is overpowered in general, she's the one eyed man in the kingdom of the blind, making her a little less overpowered isn't a big handicap.

Why are we talking in spoilers again?

[Rynjin]

Because it's about very recent chapters.

[lord_khaine]

All the same, it seems a little needless when the chapters comes up on a scedule you can almost set your watch to.
And yeah. I guess the Augur is at least a bit powerful. But i would not call her overpowered by any stretch.
Its not like she is omnicent or anything close to that.

She just get more or less random snippets of information about what goes on. But she wasnt able to see the rebellion
against Cordellia in time. Or do anything to stop it.

[Rynjin]

All the same, it seems a little needless when the chapters comes up on a scedule you can almost set your watch to.

So do TV shows and the like, but not everyone can watch them at the same time either. I know I often don't read the chapter until the evening of the day it comes out since it releases at midnight.

[McNum]

Spoiler: Chapter 83: A Mould Unbroken

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In which nothing of note happens. At all.

Okay, maybe a little happened. Maybe Black kind of claimed the Tower, and now officially stands opposed to Malicia. That had to be heartbreaking for him to say, sure, he's been aware that she and him were drifting apart, but actually becoming a claimant against her cannot have been easy. I wonder what Dread Emperor name he could take. He doesn't seem like he'd want any that has already been used, at least.

As an aside, I love that the Drow reaction to seeing the Dead King show up is essentially calling dibs, then starting a bidding war over him. Perfect, just perfect.

[Aotrs Commander]

Spoiler: Chapter 83: A Mould Unbroken

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In which nothing of note happens. At all.

Okay, maybe a little happened. Maybe Black kind of claimed the Tower, and now officially stands opposed to Malicia. That had to be heartbreaking for him to say, sure, he's been aware that she and him were drifting apart, but actually becoming a claimant against her cannot have been easy. I wonder what Dread Emperor name he could take. He doesn't seem like he'd want any that has already been used, at least.

As an aside, I love that the Drow reaction to seeing the Dead King show up is essentially calling dibs, then starting a bidding war over him. Perfect, just perfect.

Except for the stuff in the comments, wherein I wasted a lot of effort typing up responses I never posted, before forcibly reminding myself that sinking to the level of engaging in another round of human factionalism bickering is really not worth my time.

I need to remind myself of that more and more often.

*sigh*

I am so TIRED of having to deal with humans and human idiocy.

Timmy Turner really did have the right idea, he just never went far enough...

Sorry, I just needed to slightly vent (and Ponythread isn't really up to it anymore), I'll go back in my corner now.

[McNum]

Except for the stuff in the comments, wherein I wasted a lot of effort typing up responses I never posted, before forcibly reminding myself that sinking to the level of engaging in another round of human factionalism bickering is really not worth my time.

I need to remind myself of that more and more often.

*sigh*

I am so TIRED of having to deal with humans and human idiocy.

Timmy Turner really did have the right idea, he just never went far enough...

Sorry, I just needed to slightly vent (and Ponythread isn't really up to it anymore), I'll go back in my corner now.

There are reasons I prefer to talk about it here over commenting on the main blog, yes. That and I prefer more long-form discussions over quick posts that are widely open to misinterpretations, or needlessly hostile. Or are just repeats of a sentence from the chapter, with the word "vote" in it somewhere.

To continue on with the chapter, I wonder if this is how Wednesday's chapter ends, what will the Friday cliffhanger be?

[Calemyr]

I'm curious if this chapter will be enough to rouse the Ranger. If she quit because Amadeus wouldn't stand up against the Empress, well, this is a new era. I mean, I think she'd be useless against the Bard, and I doubt she's ever going to be an ally, but she's a wildcard that will eventually need to be played.

[lord_khaine]

I dont think this will draw Ranger out.
She doesnt care enough about anything that goes on outside of her own little realm.

[druid91]

I dont think this will draw Ranger out.
She doesnt care enough about anything that goes on outside of her own little realm.

She does however routinely raid the dead king and still care for Black.

[Tvtyrant]

That is one ruler who won't be signing any accords. Secret final boss? :p

[lord_khaine]

She does however routinely raid the dead king and still care for Black.

Yes. As far as i can see, then she raid the dead king from an extremely egoistic reason, boredom.

As for Black, yes she cares about him. But not enough to leave her realm for him.

[druid91]

Yes. As far as i can see, then she raid the dead king from an extremely egoistic reason, boredom.

As for Black, yes she cares about him. But not enough to leave her realm for him.

Nah. She raids the Dead King because her Aspects make her work like a Tabletop Game Character. Her personal power growth is unlimited, but she needs to fight things of the appropriate threat level in order to do so. The Dead King is one of the few opponents who pose a danger to her now.

She's basically doing repeated runs of the Tomb of Horrors to Grind XP.

She leaves her realm all the time. I mean, Archers backstory let's you know she left at least once in the past few decades. And then she also showed up in Callow to hunt the Queen of Summer. Which showed that she knew what was going on well enough to know where to go. She recognized Cat for what she was and who she was apprenticed to/adopted by.

She might live like a Hermit. But she's not disconnected from the world around her. She's just utterly unconcerned about the things our main characters are.

[Calemyr]

As for Black, yes she cares about him. But not enough to leave her realm for him.

That's where I disagree. We haven't been told why Ranger quit, except that it was sudden. It could be simple Ennui ("conquering the world is more tedious than challenging"), but the Scribe says something early on that paints a different picture: Scribe and Ranger didn't agree on a lot, but they both absolutely agreed that Amadeus should have been the one to take the throne.

What that paints to me is that it isn't that Hye isn't willing to leave her realm for him, but rather that Hye isn't going to support what she sees as a self-destructive apathy where Amadeus wouldn't step up to a responsibility she whole-heartedly felt was not just his due but something he'd be great at. When it became clear that Amadeus would always take Alaya's side (his friend) over Hye's (his lover), she quit, pretty much right then and there. Now that Amadeus has stepped up to claim the Tower, the motivation she had for stepping back is gone.

Put another way, Alaya and Cat love Amadeus, Hye loves the Carrion Lord. If it's true, as Cat suggests, that the Carrion Lord just took top billing, I think Hye's going to take more interest in him.

[Forum Explorer]

I actually take a different view on that. Ranger might have preferred if Black took the throne, but either way she would have left. Why? Because ruling is boring. Waging war against the Highborns and later Callow? Fun with lots of decent fights. Putting down baby heroes, plotting nobles, and half-backed revolutions? Stale and boring.

So she went back to roaming. And now that we are moving into the next stage of the war, we might see her show up again.

[Mith]

So I started this series a few days back and have caught up.

I really enjoy it all. I personally like that "Good" and "Evil" as forces are those principles taken to an extreme. I know it probably makes actual ethic philosophy cringe, but I read it as a response to the "standard" Good vs. Evil fantasy.

I look foreward to Akua's arc continuing, as in my opinion, she is walking the route of genuine Atonement. Not that she is there now, but she is becoming someone who could atone.

[druid91]

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So. The Tyrant has been knocking back Frenzon for the past day in preparation for the trial. If this is the end for him, I'll miss the guy.

[lord_khaine]

Yes. But i do also understand why everyone who has ever meet him wants to see him dead and buried in several different graves.
But it does seem like he wants to go out with as big a bang as possible.
Perhaps by testing if you can overload an angel of judgement? :P

[Calemyr]

I don't think Tyrant's juicing in the hopes of being a physical threat. This is about his own infirmity. Kairos is quite crippled and weak. I think he wants to stand tall on his final stage without his trembling ruining the performance.

It is also quite possible that he's been taking this tea for most of (if not all) of the last few years. Just because it can kill you doesn't mean it will, especially when the imbiber is driven towards something far bigger than his current task. Most fatal power-ups are immediately followed by an event that either completes or destroys the empowered individual's passions, I don't think it would have the narrative force to kill a Named without that catharsis. If, instead, he's been drinking it to keep him alive (Tyrant wasn't supposed to survive his twelfth year, after all), the narrative would force him to keep ramping up the scale of it to stay alive, either the amount he drank or how many kinds of poison he dumped into his tea, just to keep him standing long enough to achieve his goal. That this withered form you see is him already hyped up on enough Titan (or whatever lethal power-up you like to reference) to kill a bull.

Honestly, if that's the case, I think I'd say he went out like a badass, all told.

[McNum]

I don't think Tyrant's juicing in the hopes of being a physical threat. This is about his own infirmity. Kairos is quite crippled and weak. I think he wants to stand tall on his final stage without his trembling ruining the performance.

It is also quite possible that he's been taking this tea for most of (if not all) of the last few years. Just because it can kill you doesn't mean it will, especially when the imbiber is driven towards something far bigger than his current task. Most fatal power-ups are immediately followed by an event that either completes or destroys the empowered individual's passions, I don't think it would have the narrative force to kill a Named without that catharsis. If, instead, he's been drinking it to keep him alive (Tyrant wasn't supposed to survive his twelfth year, after all), the narrative would force him to keep ramping up the scale of it to stay alive, either the amount he drank or how many kinds of poison he dumped into his tea, just to keep him standing long enough to achieve his goal. That this withered form you see is him already hyped up on enough Titan (or whatever lethal power-up you like to reference) to kill a bull.

Honestly, if that's the case, I think I'd say he went out like a badass, all told.

Spoiler: Interlude: Wicked

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Seems like you were completely on the nose about why he drank that stuff.

And yes. "At long last." I am not entirely sure what his endgame is here, but it will be fascinating to see it play out. But one thing is certain. This is the Endgame of the Tyrant, and whatever happens, he will leave a mark on Creation with this. How could he do any less?

[Lord Raziere]

Spoiler: Interlude: Wicked

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Seems like you were completely on the nose about why he drank that stuff.

And yes. "At long last." I am not entirely sure what his endgame is here, but it will be fascinating to see it play out. But one thing is certain. This is the Endgame of the Tyrant, and whatever happens, he will leave a mark on Creation with this. How could he do any less?

Spoiler: Interlude: Wicked

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Whats interesting is that the Dead King is the wild card in this situation.

Kairos see all the motivations at work, except for this one person. So this is all going to come down to what the Dead King does during this trial, whether he will act for or against Kairos in this. the question is, whether he thinks breaking the Choir of Judgment will be needed to break the Bard's narrative or whether just being peaceful with Black Queen's accords will.

because if the Dead King agrees to become a signatory of Catherine's Liesse Accords out of nowhere....that breaks the entire war narrative right there. he'd be giving up his kingdom politically speaking, but it would massively screw over the Bard's attempts to end him, and put a halt to Kairos entire scheme, because it all hinges on Kairos being relevant enough to deal with to foil the Dead King. but he hasn't yet done that, and why would he wait until Kairos's and Hierarchs trial?

If he helps with the breaking of the Choir of Judgment, that benefits the Dead King because, hey, one less choir out for his head that the Bard could use to kill him.

but then- why hasn't he just outright made a deal with Kairos to do just that? Kairos is acting as if the Dead King is mysterious and hasn't approached him to do this. If he did, Kairos would be thinking a bit differently, don't you think?

so, the Dead King is going to do something here, but its not clear what. its probably going to be for his benefit, but isn't going to give up his kingdom to do so, because hey, he built that kingdom for a very long time, why give it up? so what thing could Dead King do to interfere with the narrative at work, that will benefit him, but not Kairos?

[druid91]

Spoiler: Interlude: Wicked

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Whats interesting is that the Dead King is the wild card in this situation.

Kairos see all the motivations at work, except for this one person. So this is all going to come down to what the Dead King does during this trial, whether he will act for or against Kairos in this. the question is, whether he thinks breaking the Choir of Judgment will be needed to break the Bard's narrative or whether just being peaceful with Black Queen's accords will.

because if the Dead King agrees to become a signatory of Catherine's Liesse Accords out of nowhere....that breaks the entire war narrative right there. he'd be giving up his kingdom politically speaking, but it would massively screw over the Bard's attempts to end him, and put a halt to Kairos entire scheme, because it all hinges on Kairos being relevant enough to deal with to foil the Dead King. but he hasn't yet done that, and why would he wait until Kairos's and Hierarchs trial?

If he helps with the breaking of the Choir of Judgment, that benefits the Dead King because, hey, one less choir out for his head that the Bard could use to kill him.

but then- why hasn't he just outright made a deal with Kairos to do just that? Kairos is acting as if the Dead King is mysterious and hasn't approached him to do this. If he did, Kairos would be thinking a bit differently, don't you think?

so, the Dead King is going to do something here, but its not clear what. its probably going to be for his benefit, but isn't going to give up his kingdom to do so, because hey, he built that kingdom for a very long time, why give it up? so what thing could Dead King do to interfere with the narrative at work, that will benefit him, but not Kairos?

Spoiler

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Unless of course, Kairos, being as steeped in narrative as he is, has decided to shape his thoughts such that they don't reveal plot spoilers in case of mind readers. After all, the Kanenas can supposedly read minds, and the Pilgrim can all but.

[lord_khaine]

I think the idea of the Tyrant intentionally being misleading in his though is tinfoil level crazy :P

Else. Got to see what he had been preparing. That was, kinda interesting.
And certainly very unexpected.

Spoiler

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So it was indeed a trap for something, or someone.
Though whom remains a mystery for now.
I would have though the bard, except im not certain she is allowed to intervene physically.

[Calemyr]

Quite the payoff. I've never been a fan of Interludes in the past, but recently they've really been adding to the narrative rather than distracting from it.

Spoiler: Interlude: Suffer no compromise in this

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Okay, that amused the hell out of me. Just watching Judgment smite the Hierarch again and again and he just keeps reforming and continuing without skipping a beat. Judgment is powerless before the Judge.

I do wonder who or what was trying to strangle the Hierarch. A god seems unlikely, as I suspect that would invalidate the bet more than what the Hierarch could do, also strangling him strikes me as a mortal solution to keep him from talking - angels and gods don't seem to have the small-picture perspective to realize the practicality of this, they'd just nuke him from orbit for all the good that would do.

It could be the White Knight (or the Witch of the Wilds). The theory that the White Knight becomes the Black Knight after his Justice is judged false would fit this, unless Hanno was killed in the action.

Unlikely to be Cat, but I can easily see her wanting to do so. She's seen and dreaded this outcome for a good while now and I strongly suspect she's the one who swore loudly during the trial.

My money is on the Bard, who is going to wake up in a new body, disoriented, while the Trial finishes without her.

Now that I see this, I kinda wonder if that was Kairos' plan all along. Sure, the raw irreparable damage done by declaring the frickin' Tribunal guilty is worth it alone, and friggin' hilarious to boot, but the real prize is having a single moment where he knows the Bard can't interfere by making her desperate enough to do something incredibly stupid. Now Kairos is free to tell the assembled forces everything he might want to about the Bard, and the Dead King is free to add in his hard-won two cents as well.

Kairos is basically Lex Luthor, is my point. He'd give the gods a bloody nose if it meant getting one clean shot at his true enemy.

Spoiler: Discworld - An obligation

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Because I'm me and everything reminds me of the Discworld, this chapter reminds me of Dorfl a golem in the Terry Pratchett series. Dorfl is an atheist (in a setting where gods exist and are more than a little petty), but he is willing to believe in any god that can be proven through rational discourse. The lightning that strikes him when he makes this proclamation he dismisses as "not much of an argument". He then promises to discuss this further in his time off (which he'd already told his new boss he never intends to have) with the priest of the most worthy god, resulting in him walking away from a fistfight between the clergy. All the while, his new boss is looking on, splitting a gut at the raw absurdity of it all. "That argument's always carried the crowd before."

[Mith]

Liking this turn of events. I do find it interesting how many people in the comments of the chapter agree whole heartedly with the Hierarch's intent.

[Lord Raziere]

Spoiler: later chapter

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I don't agree, this chapter made me feel bad, why cosmic entities keep losing to crazy people with local laws is nonsensical and absurd to me

I means its like:
ANGEL: I AM THE COSMIC ENTITY OF THIS! BEHOLD MY POWER!
Bureaucrat: yeah but you violated this parking space, I'll have to give you a ticket
ANGEL: OH NO WHAT I CAN POSSIBLY DO WITH MY GREAT AND TERRIBLE POWER.

its as if someone looked at Terry Pratchetts bad attempts at humor of officials treating cosmic entities as just other people to enforce the law on and decided that it should be taken seriously. apparently powerful cosmic entities are easily defeated weaklings because the humans have abstract ink scratches on paper. what next, is a Choir going to be defeated by freaking taxes or some technicality involving littering?

I sure hope its not going to be "oh White Knights defeated instantly the Choir is destroyed" next chapter. because if it is, then this is just rapidly becoming "Cosmic Entities lose to bureaucrats" the series.

[Mith]

Spoiler: later chapter

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I don't agree, this chapter made me feel bad, why cosmic entities keep losing to crazy people with local laws is nonsensical and absurd to me

I means its like:
ANGEL: I AM THE COSMIC ENTITY OF THIS! BEHOLD MY POWER!
Bureaucrat: yeah but you violated this parking space, I'll have to give you a ticket
ANGEL: OH NO WHAT I CAN POSSIBLY DO WITH MY GREAT AND TERRIBLE POWER.

its as if someone looked at Terry Pratchetts bad attempts at humor of officials treating cosmic entities as just other people to enforce the law on and decided that it should be taken seriously. apparently powerful cosmic entities are easily defeated weaklings because the humans have abstract ink scratches on paper. what next, is a Choir going to be defeated by freaking taxes or some technicality involving littering?

I sure hope its not going to be "oh White Knights defeated instantly the Choir is destroyed" next chapter. because if it is, then this is just rapidly becoming "Cosmic Entities lose to bureaucrats" the series.

Spoiler

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I do hope that this goes for more nuance than "almighty bureaucrat". My enjoyment of this chapter is really more expecting a better pay off in the end. I do not expect the Hierarch to be the clean winner of this trial, if for no other reason than having Cat stand by while a narritive nuclear bomb goes off with no agency is really bad from a story perspective.

[The Glyphstone]

It'll be interesting. Heirarch's goals aren't much different from Cat's, just more sweeping and extreme. She wants to minimize the negative influence of Named and gods on the lives of normal people. Anarxes wants the gods/angels to butt out of mortal affairs altogether.