Shock Trooper - Stupid Question

[kjones]

Hey all,
I hear the combination of "Leap Attack + Power Attack + Shock Trooper" thrown around a lot on these boards. The power of Leap Attack and Power Attack is readily apparent, but I've looked at the Shock Trooper feat, and I don't quite see how this mixes with the other two to create MASSIVE DAMAGE.

Can anyone explain?

[KoDT69]

You power attack by taking an AC penalty instead of an AB penalty, so you get a much better chance to hit with your Leap Attack!

[Fax Celestis]

I believe it's the heedless charge ability. It allows you to drop AC instead of dropping AB for your bonus, which means you can sink up to your BAB every time without worrying about losing chance-to-hit.

[Jack Mann]

It lets you switch your attack bonus penalty to your armor class. This means that you can sink your entire BAB to damage and still manage to hit. Sure, you're more vulnerable the next round, but the odds are that whatever you've hit is now a greasy smear on the floor.

[Keld Denar]

Its the charge ability of shock trooper. I believe its called "heedless charge" or something like that. It allows you to take a penalty to AC to increase your "to hit" during a charge. This allows you to filter "to hit" into damage, and AC into "to hit". Therefore, you are taking a penalty to AC to increase your damage. Since the AC of such a character seldom maters, the difference between AC 20 and AC 0 almost doesn't exist past level 12 or so. The extra + "to hit" makes the charge have the best chance of connecting, especially with iterative attacks on a charge (from a pounce-like ability).

EDIT: TRIPLE SIMULNINJA COMBO!

[Attilargh]

The extra + "to hit" makes the charge have the best chance of connecting, especially with iterative attacks on a charge.

The what on a what? Did we somewhere dip into that Barbarian variant that grants Pounce from the splatbook which I can never remember? (Not that it would be a bad idea, mind.)

[Keld Denar]

The what on a what? Did we somewhere dip into that Barbarian variant that grants Pounce from the splatbook which I can never remember? (Not that it would be a bad idea, mind.)

Yeah, I was in a hurry to not get simulninjaed...some good that did. Forgot to add the pouncing part. Its fixed now.

(pounce does make shock trooper an amazing feat though. Utterly amazing.) Most things CAN'T survive a full power attack full iterative onslaught, especially if you have extra attacks from haste and/or flurry of strikes (EWM from CW)

[bugsysservant]

The what on a what? Did we somewhere dip into that Barbarian variant that grants Pounce from the splatbook which I can never remember? (Not that it would be a bad idea, mind.)

Lion totem I believe. Check the PHBII. I would, but I'm at school right now

[Fax Celestis]

Lion totem I believe. Check the PHBII. I would, but I'm at school right now

Nope. CCham.

[Townopolis]

A half-orc lion totem barbarian with a speed greataxe and 30 strength while raging and charging does:

2d12+30+120+magic*2 damage/hit (x3 critical)

attack bonus for these hits is 32/32/27/22/17 (with just BAB, Charge, and Strength)

Lion Totem Barbarian
Power Attack (to full)
Leap Attack
Shock Trooper
Headlong Rush

and an AC of about -2.

[Person_Man]

Power Attack + Improved Bull Rush + Leap Attack + Shock Trooper is a pretty common and effective combo. Be sure to use a reach weapon (and Combat Reflexes, if you can swing it) to help defend against counter attacks, since your AC will suck rocks. Magic items or spells that defend against ranged attacks are also a great idea.

Also, I've recently noticed that my pounce builds rarely get to use pounce. Because I use Spirited Charge and/or Headlong Rush and/or Battle Jump and/or Rhino Charge and/or Neraph Charge and/or Raptorian or Dragonborn, etc, I tend to deal enough damage to kill virtually anything in 1 hit. Plus enemies have a tendency to clump together after the first round of combat, especially when indoors. So I've found that its far more effective to just have a lot of reach and a high damage output, rather then going out of your way to get Pounce. But obviously, results vary between DMs, and if you are going to be a Barbarian, its a good idea.

FYI, there's a long running debate as to whether Leap Attack with a 2 handed weapon provides a +3 or +4 per BAB bonus to damage. It's been errata'd, and the errata is somewhat confusing. I've gotten conflicting answers from Cust Serv and at the WotC forums, with WotC employees giving me different answers. I use +4. But either number means your damage output will be fine.

[ocato]

Huh, the way I read it, it just bumps up, 1h goes to x2 and 2h goes to x3. Diff'rent strokes. Another fun feat is Combat Brute which has a manuever that if your next attack after a chage uses -5 Power attack, it's also a x3 instead of x2 or x2 instead of a x1. LEAP Cleave 5' step SMASH cleave 5' step.

Cha Cha Cha.

[Fax Celestis]

Cha Cha Cha.

No, no, no. Cha is for bards and sorcerors. Str is for barbarians and fighters.

[ocato]

L2snowflakewardance n00b.

Kidding, of course. I just meant because in my head that sounded like step step cha cha cha. One, Two, Cha cha cha.

Like dance instructions.

[Fax Celestis]

L2snowflakewardance n00b.

Kidding, of course. I just meant because in my head that sounded like step step cha cha cha. One, Two, Cha cha cha.

Like dance instructions.

Now I need to make a dance instructor bard. "No, you do it this way (suggestion)."

[Keld Denar]

A half-orc lion totem barbarian with a speed greataxe and 30 strength while raging and charging does:

2d12+30+120+magic*2 damage/hit (x3 critical)

attack bonus for these hits is 32/32/27/22/17 (with just BAB, Charge, and Strength)

Lion Totem Barbarian
Power Attack (to full)
Leap Attack
Shock Trooper
Headlong Rush

and an AC of about -2.

Combine with Karmic Strike from PHBII to drop your AC down to -6. When your opponent full attacks you back, you Karmic Strike them for certain using your full BAB with 2x PA (sorry, since you didn't leap, you only get 2x, not 4x, although combat brute would fix that). If you have combat reflexes and a decent dex (bout 16 or so) you would get your 5 attacks from pounce, then 4 AoOs from it full attacking you back, at max to hit and lots of damage. If you arn't dead, whatever hit you will be. You could easily deal 400+ damage on 9 attacks not including crits. That's also 9 save or dies from massive damage if they survive that much hurt which is almost a 50% chance to autokill.

[kjones]

Power Attack + Improved Bull Rush + Leap Attack + Shock Trooper is a pretty common and effective combo. Be sure to use a reach weapon (and Combat Reflexes, if you can swing it) to help defend against counter attacks, since your AC will suck rocks. Magic items or spells that defend against ranged attacks are also a great idea.

Also, I've recently noticed that my pounce builds rarely get to use pounce. Because I use Spirited Charge and/or Headlong Rush and/or Battle Jump and/or Rhino Charge and/or Neraph Charge and/or Raptorian or Dragonborn, etc, I tend to deal enough damage to kill virtually anything in 1 hit. Plus enemies have a tendency to clump together after the first round of combat, especially when indoors. So I've found that its far more effective to just have a lot of reach and a high damage output, rather then going out of your way to get Pounce. But obviously, results vary between DMs, and if you are going to be a Barbarian, its a good idea.

FYI, there's a long running debate as to whether Leap Attack with a 2 handed weapon provides a +3 or +4 per BAB bonus to damage. It's been errata'd, and the errata is somewhat confusing. I've gotten conflicting answers from Cust Serv and at the WotC forums, with WotC employees giving me different answers. I use +4. But either number means your damage output will be fine.

I understand all of this, except for the bit where Improved Bull Rush comes in.

[Fax Celestis]

Improved Bull Rush is a prerequisite for Shock Trooper.