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  1. - Top - End - #781
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    If anything it's an argument that Solomon should have gotten off his ass and left his kingdom to others so he can concentrate on training to be more than a blip for the Red God. He was so busy being the benevolent dictator that he had to rely on pact with the other demiurges as a deterrence for Jagganoth, a pact that he should have realized was worthless as the six of them are hardly up to the task given that they have been play acting being kings and despots rather than understanding that the war continues and only one of them has been getting stronger.
    Kind of a logical flaw that they let jaggs build up a power imbalance for like the last thousand years.
    Its equally a logical flaw to assume that they had a choice in preventing Jagganoth from building up.
    Or that doing any more pushups would have helped Solomon. Its much more likely that he had reached the peak of of what was possible for him to achive.
    And as we also saw. He had his hands full acting as a mediator among the other demi-urges.

    Incubus seems to specialize in the mental-scape, so while Alison could become powerful enough to take down any of the demimuges in a fight, her mind might not be so well protected. It could even be related to how he took Maya's place
    I think Rydiro got it right. He is just spiteful. I dont think he actually ever beat Maya in a direct fight.
    Thats why the other demi-urges dont respect him. I find it more likely Maya just quit one day.
    Incubus was then around to pick up the pieces.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  2. - Top - End - #782
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    To be fair I'm not sure what SD was supposed to do, from the sounds of it the Demiurges where in a massive war where Jab wasn't overly powerful. Jab then gets given a tool that makes him literally invincible and powers him up from the supposedly dead leader of the angels. The Demiurges unite against him so Jab decides it's not worth the the risk they might be able to seal him and agrees to peace. Everyone tries to increase the power of their team in various ways. For SD he only sees the power of the individual so seeks the most powerful to serve under him and someone to surpass him. (Which considering how top heavy combat power is in this universe isnt a bad method.)

    At least that's my understanding of the timeline from just the Comic and words under it from my memory.

    Looks like we're going to get to see SD show off his full power only for it to have not effect on the invincible Jab for effect though.

  3. - Top - End - #783
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacewolf View Post
    To be fair I'm not sure what SD was supposed to do, from the sounds of it the Demiurges where in a massive war where Jab wasn't overly powerful. Jab then gets given a tool that makes him literally invincible and powers him up from the supposedly dead leader of the angels. The Demiurges unite against him so Jab decides it's not worth the the risk they might be able to seal him and agrees to peace. Everyone tries to increase the power of their team in various ways. For SD he only sees the power of the individual so seeks the most powerful to serve under him and someone to surpass him. (Which considering how top heavy combat power is in this universe isnt a bad method.)

    At least that's my understanding of the timeline from just the Comic and words under it from my memory.

    Looks like we're going to get to see SD show off his full power only for it to have not effect on the invincible Jab for effect though.
    This comment has made me realise the likely plot arc/point of the final book. Apologies if this was already obvious to others!

    The overall message of KSBD is of strength through genuine unity. That’s what Allison’s role is: she’s not a demiurge seizing all that power for herself, instead she is going to be called on to share it among her friends and allies. She has certainly been tempted down that path, but now in the final book she will meet that potential. United we stand.

    By contrast, the demiurges are not united. Over the coming pages we will see them attempt to fight Jag, and fail because they each see themselves as standing alone and above all others. Divided we fall.

    So the demiurges will be defeated here, some will die, others retreat. Then Allison and co will have to gather their strength, maybe aided by surviving demiurges. Then together they will defeat Jag. End story.
    Evil round every corner, careful not to step in any.

  4. - Top - End - #784
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Avaris View Post
    Divided we fall.

    So the demiurges will be defeated here, some will die, others retreat. Then Allison and co will have to gather their strength, maybe aided by surviving demiurges. Then together they will defeat Jag. End story.
    The author has said that Jagganoth is a lot more interesting and complicated than just an omnicidal elephant cosplayer. Both Jagganoth and, er, Juggernaut seem to want to break a cycle of some sort, but in a manner that's really not very well-defined just yet. I suspect that you're right about there being a message of strength through unity, but the ultimate goal Allison will need to help people unite to accomplish will actually be closer to what Jagganoth is going for, just presumably accomplished through a means other than killing everyone. For all Jagganoth's power, we'll find that he's actually helplessly outclassed by the process or entity he's struggling against, and the kill-everyone plan is essentially a fallback. Allison will need to persuade him to not struggle alone at his still extraordinarily-difficult task, but instead convince him that the golden approach that doesn't involve murdering everyone is possible if he works together.

  5. - Top - End - #785
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Thales View Post
    The author has said that Jagganoth is a lot more interesting and complicated than just an omnicidal elephant cosplayer. Both Jagganoth and, er, Juggernaut seem to want to break a cycle of some sort, but in a manner that's really not very well-defined just yet. I suspect that you're right about there being a message of strength through unity, but the ultimate goal Allison will need to help people unite to accomplish will actually be closer to what Jagganoth is going for, just presumably accomplished through a means other than killing everyone. For all Jagganoth's power, we'll find that he's actually helplessly outclassed by the process or entity he's struggling against, and the kill-everyone plan is essentially a fallback. Allison will need to persuade him to not struggle alone at his still extraordinarily-difficult task, but instead convince him that the golden approach that doesn't involve murdering everyone is possible if he works together.
    The author stated jagganoth wants to kill everyone, because he never knew love. So he genuinely thinks all existence is suffering.
    So all Allison has to do is do a lot of lovin' the giant elephant guy.

  6. - Top - End - #786
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    To be fair I'm not sure what SD was supposed to do, from the sounds of it the Demiurges where in a massive war where Jab wasn't overly powerful. Jab then gets given a tool that makes him literally invincible and powers him up from the supposedly dead leader of the angels. The Demiurges unite against him so Jab decides it's not worth the the risk they might be able to seal him and agrees to peace. Everyone tries to increase the power of their team in various ways. For SD he only sees the power of the individual so seeks the most powerful to serve under him and someone to surpass him. (Which considering how top heavy combat power is in this universe isnt a bad method.)
    You got the timeline a tiny bit mixed up.
    The 7 remaining demi-urges agreed to a peace where they divided creation equally among themselves.
    And swore an blood oath to come to the aid of anyone who got attacked by one of the other, to ensure the peace would last.
    Jaggernoth got his power upgrade afterwards.

    And the 7 then instead began to focus their attention on conquering their share of reality.
    (or well, Jaggernoth began a mix of extermination and war preparation).

    Though i dont know where the idea of SD only seeing the power of the individual comes from. He is the one with the most well ordered empire.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  7. - Top - End - #787
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Epic throwdown cancelled.


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    Somebody should have that sigged.
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  8. - Top - End - #788
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    The pattern continues of the Demiurges being, well, exactly as ruinous as they appear to be initially, just with richer internal lives than expected (Exempting iceblock and Your Favorite Worms)

    What confuses me is Jaganoth's line about "Saving many lives".

    Like, from what we've heard, he's pretty omnicidal. Even if it's more from a "Life is suffering, best to kill everyone" sense, rather than "Boy do I love Killing!"
    Allison's key would make his job easier, so it makes sense he'd ask for it, but why he says it would "Save many lives" is beyond me.

    Unless he intends to spare all unconquered worlds. Reset things to how they were before Zoss entered throne, no more connected multiverse, no mad demiurges, just 777,777 universes each doing their own thing. The lives that would be saved are those worlds yet unconquered, sparing them from subjugation or annihilation at the hands of the Demiurges.
    In order to do that, he first must wipe out all the other demiurges, and all their subjects, and all inhabitants of Throne.

    And then, I guess, Jagganoth stands there, alone in a city of corpses, and the moment there's another Zoss, somebody else who figures out how to breach the firmament and threaten to restart the whole thing, he kills them?


    I don't know.
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  9. - Top - End - #789
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Next panel:
    Spoiler
    Show
    Solomon David sliding neatly, peacefully apart, cut in twain like so much wheat before the scythe.

    This would be true if I were the GM.
    Last edited by Kaptin Keen; 2020-10-28 at 02:16 AM.

  10. - Top - End - #790
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    While I appreciate Jagganoth trying to explain, this seems important enough (and he's invulnerable enough), that he probably ought to spend more of an effort than that. We, the readers, can spend a bunch of idle time trying decipher what exactly he's talking about, and who knows, maybe some of us will get it right, but crikey, if you're on what you believe to be the most important mission ever, the least you could do is use persuasion with half the enthusiasm you use one of those swords!

  11. - Top - End - #791
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    This would be true if I were the GM.
    Yeah. You would be a horrible GM. Those are suposed to be impartial. Not twist events according to their hate-boner.

    While I appreciate Jagganoth trying to explain, this seems important enough (and he's invulnerable enough), that he probably ought to spend more of an effort than that. We, the readers, can spend a bunch of idle time trying decipher what exactly he's talking about, and who knows, maybe some of us will get it right, but crikey, if you're on what you believe to be the most important mission ever, the least you could do is use persuasion with half the enthusiasm you use one of those swords!
    For a start he should likely have tried to do a better first impression.
    On that perhaps did not involve murdering the majority of a town.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  12. - Top - End - #792
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Yeah. You would be a horrible GM. Those are suposed to be impartial. Not twist events according to their hate-boner.
    Wow. Just ... wow. Having one npc slaughter another is, I believe, allowed for a GM. Also, I have absolutely zero emotion invested in any fictional character, but you seem to be really invested.

  13. - Top - End - #793
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Can someone give a quick refresher on who Metatron is? Are they the ruler of the angels?

  14. - Top - End - #794
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    Wow. Just ... wow. Having one npc slaughter another is, I believe, allowed for a GM. Also, I have absolutely zero emotion invested in any fictional character, but you seem to be really invested.
    I wouldn't get too hung up on it, Lord Khaine is a loyal subject of the Celestial Empire and is honor bound to defend Solomon at every opportunity. He's just doing his job.

  15. - Top - End - #795
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by understatement View Post
    Can someone give a quick refresher on who Metatron is? Are they the ruler of the angels?
    Metatron

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    For a start he should likely have tried to do a better first impression.
    On that perhaps did not involve murdering the majority of a town.
    Yup. He really isn't great at this whole "diplomacy" thing.

  17. - Top - End - #797
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by mystic1110 View Post
    I wouldn't get too hung up on it, Lord Khaine is a loyal subject of the Celestial Empire and is honor bound to defend Solomon at every opportunity. He's just doing his job.
    Oh I know. And I'm not about to argue with him. Here are seven deadly sins literally embodied and personified, and some guy want's to argue one of them is just the swellest of really swell guys? No, not rising to that.

    But to be accused of having a 'hate-boner' for finding it funny if pride goeth before a fall? That, I must admit, was quite unexpected.

  18. - Top - End - #798
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Besides, having the Big Bad kill the Big Good in order to show how real the situation has gotten is a time-honored practice. Having Solomon die here would serve a number of purposes - it would establish the stakes, while ensuring that there's nobody to unite the Seven (meaning Allison has to step up). When a non-main character is both strong and reasonable it is sort of a death flag in general because if they stay alive then they'll be the ones handling everything.

    It would also cut to the heart of Solomon's ideology - if all that matters is who is stronger, and the empire should go to the strongest, what right does he have to stand against Jagganoth if Jagganoth is capable of killing him in one hit? It seems that by his own law and ideology, Jagganoth is entirely justified in killing Solomon, taking his empire, and burning it to the ground; if he doesn't like that option then it seems like something in Solomon's ideology might be flawed. The whole last book has built up this criticism of the idea of strength-as-justice; having Solomon, who was the big proponent of it, die at the hands of someone who (at the moment) seems like a complete monster would drive that home. If Solomon believes that strength is justice, and Jagganoth is the strongest Demiurge, then what justice could possibly exist?

    (For that matter, what *would* Solomon have done if Jagganoth entered the games according to the rules? It's completely clear that Solomon can't 1v1 Jagganoth, so he would probably die in the fight if he had to do it all on his own. Then Jagganoth would inherit his empire by his own laws, and would be free to obliterate it whenever he wants.)

    Mind you I don't think Solomon is going to die here, mostly because I don't think Abaddon is going for that sort of big final boss fight anyway (it would also make no sense for Solomon to be so confident and to die instantly.) But I wouldn't be totally shocked if it happened and wouldn't consider it bad writing - honestly Solomon has been tripping death flags a lot recently.

    Also Abaddon has already done the whole "someone is played up as incredibly strong and then gets cut in half in one attack to show how strong someone else is" thing.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2020-10-30 at 05:24 PM.

  19. - Top - End - #799
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Aww - the disappoint.

    Anyways, I'm sure it's possible to argue that Jagganoth is the 'big good'. He alone has read the writing on the wall, he alone has the mental fortitude to accept what it means, and he alone is willing to do it. He will sacrifice the world to see it born again better - for the present one is irredeemably mired in misery because of past mistakes and present corruption.

    Jagganoth has come to save us all.

    I have no idea whether any of that is true - and it doesn't matter. Jag and Sal are both plot devices. Neither is going to win, because Ally is. This is a known factor, and always has been.

  20. - Top - End - #800
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    I do think Solomon is going to die here but there's abit of backstabbing and showing off to do before that happens by the various other teams. I'm having trouble guessing exactly whats going to happen because this doesn't feel like it should be the last book when there's so much left.
    As for Jag seeing the writing, he does have the advantage of knowing there is a puppetmaster when he is looking for the strings. I'm not sure anyone else outside the angels has been made aware Metatron lives.

  21. - Top - End - #801
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Does anyone else not get rss updates for this anymore?

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibrinar View Post
    Does anyone else not get rss updates for this anymore?
    RSS worked for the latest comic for me.
    Many thanks to Assassin 89 for this avatar!

  23. - Top - End - #803
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    It really does seem to be moving towards the climax. Which is kind of a shame? I feel like we barely got to see most of this world. I'd really would have wanted a chapter or two exploring the worlds of each demiurge from the ground perspective, but I guess this is not that kind of story.
    "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
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  24. - Top - End - #804
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Oh I know. And I'm not about to argue with him. Here are seven deadly sins literally embodied and personified, and some guy want's to argue one of them is just the swellest of really swell guys? No, not rising to that.
    But to be accused of having a 'hate-boner' for finding it funny if pride goeth before a fall? That, I must admit, was quite unexpected.
    Noone has accused SD of being swell. Though he does score favorably towards at least ½ the rulers of our world.
    And the number of times people have been trying to twist events to make him a baby-eating monster is honestly grating.

    (For that matter, what *would* Solomon have done if Jagganoth entered the games according to the rules? It's completely clear that Solomon can't 1v1 Jagganoth, so he would probably die in the fight if he had to do it all on his own. Then Jagganoth would inherit his empire by his own laws, and would be free to obliterate it whenever he wants.)
    I suspect Jagganoth is not allowed to visit SD's Empire.
    I also suspect the entry documents they were forced to fill had a line with.
    Are you a disguised demi-urge?
    Yes [ ] No [ ]

    It would also cut to the heart of Solomon's ideology - if all that matters is who is stronger, and the empire should go to the strongest, what right does he have to stand against Jagganoth if Jagganoth is capable of killing him in one hit? It seems that by his own law and ideology, Jagganoth is entirely justified in killing Solomon, taking his empire, and burning it to the ground; if he doesn't like that option then it seems like something in Solomon's ideology might be flawed. The whole last book has built up this criticism of the idea of strength-as-justice; having Solomon, who was the big proponent of it, die at the hands of someone who (at the moment) seems like a complete monster would drive that home. If Solomon believes that strength is justice, and Jagganoth is the strongest Demiurge, then what justice could possibly exist?
    Hmm.. i think you are misunderstanding Solomon's ideology. And a few key points about him.
    The empire isnt build around strenght. Its build around Law. But as Solomon correctly has pointed out. Conviction does not mean anything if you cant back it with strenght.
    It hasnt ever been stated the empire should go to the strongest. Just someone who was strong enough to hopefully protect it.
    Case in point. You just needed to draw -1- drop of blood to win. While being allowed to lose as many drops of blood as you can handle.

    It really does seem to be moving towards the climax. Which is kind of a shame? I feel like we barely got to see most of this world. I'd really would have wanted a chapter or two exploring the worlds of each demiurge from the ground perspective, but I guess this is not that kind of story.
    I would have loved 1/2 chapters for each demi-urge. But i guess that would have extended things for at least 4-5 years?
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post

    I would have loved 1/2 chapters for each demi-urge. But i guess that would have extended things for at least 4-5 years?
    Yeah. Which I would have loved. But this comic seems pretty firmly down on the side of mainly having big chapter ending fights and a bit of build up every time, over a lot of worldbuilding.
    "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Noone has accused SD of being swell. Though he does score favorably towards at least ½ the rulers of our world.
    And the number of times people have been trying to twist events to make him a baby-eating monster is honestly grating.
    As I plainly stated: We are not going to discuss this.

    However, when replying to anything I say, kindly keep any potential boners, hateful or otherwise, out of your reply.

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