Darths & Droids VI: Thread title will appear here when received

[137beth]

Welcome to the sixth thread discussing Darths and Droids!


The sequel trilogy is now underway. Please keep spoilers for Rogue One, the Star Wars Sequel Trilogy, and other Star Wars media produced by Disney in spoiler boxes.

Previous Threads:
Darths and Droids (November 1, 2007 - June 16, 2011)
Darths and Droids 2: Should've Gone to Naboo (June 16, 2011 - September 9, 2012)
Darths and Droids III: Search Your DNA Report (September 9, 2012-June 26, 2015)
Darths and Droids V: Thread IV Was Eaten By Dogs (June 26, 2015-December 25, 2017)
Darths & Droids IV: Not in Numerical Order (December 25 2017-August 28 2021)

[Rodin]

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checking online there apparently is a novel explanation and it wasn't the force but it was technobabble https://old.reddit.com/r/MawInstalla...n_see/dw72jzc/

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Which essentially comes down to the writer of the novelization caring more about the technobabble than the movie writers. The movie writers were some combination of "Didn't know" and "Didn't care" and if it was discussed at all I'm sure the response was that most of the movie-going audience would not have an understanding of interstellar travel distances and wouldn't register the absurdity. It's not worth writing around something that 90+% of your audience is not going to notice let alone actively care about.

Heck, I didn't register it at the time and I'm a Sci-Fi nerd. It's only in retrospect that it's super weird, but it's one of those things you can't unsee once it's been pointed out to you.

[Taevyr]

Its been however many years of playing, and the DM has finally come up with a scene that Jim cant/wont justify for him. I find this amusing.

To be fair, the GM succesfully distracted him from the really ludicrous part with some "Sweet geophysics". So Pete had to pick up the slack.

Which was my favourite shift, since he went straight for "that's unrealistic" rather than his original "how can I minmax that thing".

[Anonymouswizard]

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Which essentially comes down to the writer of the novelization caring more about the technobabble than the movie writers. The movie writers were some combination of "Didn't know" and "Didn't care" and if it was discussed at all I'm sure the response was that most of the movie-going audience would not have an understanding of interstellar travel distances and wouldn't register the absurdity. It's not worth writing around something that 90+% of your audience is not going to notice let alone actively care about.

Heck, I didn't register it at the time and I'm a Sci-Fi nerd. It's only in retrospect that it's super weird, but it's one of those things you can't unsee once it's been pointed out to you.

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Yeah, and sadly this isn't the only time Start Wars had had novelists care more about providing an explanation. Sometimes this works, like the Episode IV 'space sounds are actually the ship using sound to give you information', but I feel this is closer to

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Clone Palpatine

than that.

This case is one where it might have been better to respond with 'yes, that is strange' than give an explanation.

[theangelJean]

Okay memnarch, I'll bite:

Spoiler: Darths and Droids Episode 2043

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"You think the sword is cursed?"

You think that's the laser sword strapped on to Rey's back there?

The stupid thing? Having watched the movie, and remembering what happens next...

I don't remember if it is, or not.

[Aeson]

Okay memnarch, I'll bite:

Spoiler: Current comic

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"You think the sword is cursed?"

You think that's the laser sword strapped on to Rey's back there?

The stupid thing? Having watched the movie, and remembering what happens next...

I don't remember if it is, or not.

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The laser sword was left with Kanata in the bar's basement; the object on Rey's back is the blaster that Han gave to Rey between getting off the Falcon and going into the bar.

Kanata will be giving Finn the laser sword in a few scenes.

[Anonymouswizard]

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The laser sword was left with Kanata in the bar's basement; the object on Rey's back is the blaster that Han gave to Rey between getting off the Falcon and going into the bar.

Kanata will be giving Finn the laser sword in a few scenes.

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Does that mean well get the debut of TR8-R by the end of the year? I wonder how that scene will play out.

[Aeson]

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Does that mean well get the debut of TR8-R by the end of the year? I wonder how that scene will play out.

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I would expect so since Finn getting the sword and the FO attack on the bar with its associated events are the next few scenes in the film, but I don't have any inside knowledge as to when they'll get to things in the comic; I'm just going off what I remember of the movie.

[memnarch]

Based on an email update I got from DMM while I was working last night, there should be an updated comment in the 24 hours or so.

And hah! You can't make me open spoiler boxes that easily theangelJean!

[theangelJean]

Based on an email update I got from DMM while I was working last night, there should be an updated comment in the 24 hours or so.

And hah! You can't make me open spoiler boxes that easily theangelJean!

Hah! And here I was about to go back and note the current comic number, and mark it on the spoiler tag for when keybounce gets here...

(Yes, I'm still going to do that.)

[Xihirli]

I'm gonna disagree. "Destiny" cannot work in a story. Sometimes it doesn't detract that much, but when played straight destiny as a concept can only make a story worse. "You can't fight fate" is a really stupid moral to put into any story because what kind of moral is that? That's not applicable to real life because if we do have fate, we don't have a way to see the future. A world with fate that you can't determine ahead of time is indistinguishable from a world with no fate at all.

Now if fate is an antagonistic force I don't mind that so much, or if there's a subversion where what people assume is fate turns out to be wrong. But if you're going to use destiny to say "the heroes are going to win" then why are you even bothering to use it.

[Anonymouswizard]

I'm gonna disagree. "Destiny" cannot work in a story. Sometimes it doesn't detract that much, but when played straight destiny as a concept can only make a story worse. "You can't fight fate" is a really stupid moral to put into any story because what kind of moral is that? That's not applicable to real life because if we do have fate, we don't have a way to see the future. A world with fate that you can't determine ahead of time is indistinguishable from a world with no fate at all.

Now if fate is an antagonistic force I don't mind that so much, or if there's a subversion where what people assume is fate turns out to be wrong. But if you're going to use destiny to say "the heroes are going to win" then why are you even bothering to use it.

I think it's fiber if we're going for something akin to psychohistory but less accurate. Do destiny for larger groups is fine, individual characters I'm mostly agreeing with you. Although when that Destiny is the work of various other characters manipulating the situation, more 'Arthur is destined to become king because Merlin has rigged it', I think it works better.

I also don't see an issue with stories where a character makes small changes within a framework. It can also be useful if said confrontation isn't the point of the story, and instead just an enabling device.

Moving more towards Star Wars, destiny seems to be something the Force decides, and it's really uncertain how much it 'knows'. Let's be honest, Anakin kind of messed up the Bring Balance To The Force thing for twenty-odd years. Might have been nice to have a backup chosen one or two is all I'm saying. I mean, it's a big galaxy and you basically decide who gets to be a space wizard, can't be that hard to pump out two hundred and hide them amongst the population.

[Ellen]

Although it would be incredibly hard to make it work in a game setting, this discussion on prophecies makes me want to do the opposite, a Cassandra thing, where a prophecy has been made, doubted, fulfilled down to the smallest detail, and the characters insist Cassandra just got lucky, anyone could do it, and there is no reason to believe anything else Cassandra says. Even as every bit of Cassandra's latest prophecy comes true, they argue Cassandra's a fake and refuse to act on any info they've been given.

Maybe make part of game play? You get XP every time you act against the prophecy and get penalty points on rolls for actions trying to take advantage of what you've been told?

[Gez]

Although it would be incredibly hard to make it work in a game setting, this discussion on prophecies makes me want to do the opposite, a Cassandra thing, where a prophecy has been made, doubted, fulfilled down to the smallest detail, and the characters insist Cassandra just got lucky, anyone could do it, and there is no reason to believe anything else Cassandra says. Even as every bit of Cassandra's latest prophecy comes true, they argue Cassandra's a fake and refuse to act on any info they've been given.

Maybe make part of game play? You get XP every time you act against the prophecy and get penalty points on rolls for actions trying to take advantage of what you've been told?

The main problem would be to devise prophecies that are precise enough to not be dismissed as vague hogwash that can be mapped a posteriori to whatever actually happened through creative interpretation, but that the player cannot thwart easily just by their general tendency to derail everything.

[137beth]

Okay, hold on: can someone remind me when we previously heard about the "second part of the prophecy?" I'm pretty sure we heard it before, possibly from Yoda, but I can't recall when.

[PhantomFox]

Going back a few strips, is the DM going to need to call a timeout to have a private chat with Pete about trust, or is it just me? I feel like there's a line between avoiding railroad tracks/plot hooks/plot points/'path' to pursue character agency for an in-character reason, and avoiding them just because they're there. It feels like he doesn't trust the path presented to be satisfying. I mean, it's a very tricky balance. The players are free to pursue goals however they please, and that should be respected (within reason), but this feels like it is heading beyond balance and towards the opposite extreme where the DM's world building and storytelling efforts are not respected and instead spit upon. Pete plays like a paranoid players against a killer DM, and there seems to be a mismatch of expectations. We'll see if this is indeed a thing, and how it gets resolved, or if I'm reading too much into it.

[b_jonas]

PhantomFox: I disagree. Pete is doing entirely the right thing here. He's avoiding the obviously cursed laser sword that is clearly layed there as a trap, and tries to take over the mind of anyone who touches it. And even role-plays it well: his character briefly becomes mad and runs away, rather than just calmly returns the sword as if it had no effect on Rey's mind. We know that even the DM doesn't expect players to fall into every obvious discoverable trap.

[memnarch]

PhantomFox: I disagree. Pete is doing entirely the right thing here. He's avoiding the obviously cursed laser sword that is clearly layed there as a trap, and tries to take over the mind of anyone who touches it. And even role-plays it well: his character briefly becomes mad and runs away, rather than just calmly returns the sword as if it had no effect on Rey's mind. We know that even the DM doesn't expect players to fall into every obvious discoverable trap.

Even if I forget sometimes when commenting and he doesn't make it obvious, Pete really is good at roleplaying.

[Anonymouswizard]

Admittedly it did take Pete time to grow to a point where he cared about role-playing, but he's certainly there now. As is Jim. Annie is possibly the player must likely to be disruptive.

Plus I'm not convinced that the GM didn't expect Pete to not take the laser sword. This is the kind of plot hook that could be followed up on either way, especially as any character that Pete builds is more than likely to be combat capable regardless. Switching from staff to laser sword might actually decrease Rey's effectiveness, she's not invested in it.

Running away however is more likely to have messed up the GM's plans, but he's used to it. We haven't seen him have to burn an NPC backstory in a while.

[SirKazum]

(...) but this feels like it is heading beyond balance and towards the opposite extreme where the DM's world building and storytelling efforts are not respected and instead spit upon. (...)

As if that was not what this group is all about.

[b_jonas]

Switching from staff to laser sword might actually decrease Rey's effectiveness, she's not invested in it.

Spoiler: Possible Force Awakens spoilers

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It wouldn't. The reason is that Rey already has a laser sword. Her staff is made of laser sword hilts that she collected while scavenging and repaired. The Last Jedi didn't confirm this, because it's a disjoint movie with all the setups from The Force Awakens throws away, but it did seem so after The Force Awakens. You don't expect the staff prop to be designed to look just like it's made of lightsaber hilts in a Star Wars film if Rey wasn't planned to use it after she gets her Jedi training from Luke, do you?

Rey only agreed to look at a laser sword because the DM decided that Rey left her main weapon on the ship. Pete never said anything to that effect, and it would be such an uncharacteristic decision for an adventurer that I think it's downright unfair for the DM to assume it. If the only laser sword that Maz Kanata has to offer is a cursed one, then it's no surprise that Rey isn't interested. A laser sword could help if a fight breaks out in the bar, but dealing with a cursed laser sword at that point is worse than just using an improvized weapon. And once they return to the ship, Rey will have her weapon once again.

[Anonymouswizard]

Spoiler: Possible Force Awakens spoilers

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It wouldn't. The reason is that Rey already has a laser sword. Her staff is made of laser sword hilts that she collected while scavenging and repaired. The Last Jedi didn't confirm this, because it's a disjoint movie with all the setups from The Force Awakens throws away, but it did seem so after The Force Awakens. You don't expect the staff prop to be designed to look just like it's made of lightsaber hilts in a Star Wars film if Rey wasn't planned to use it after she gets her Jedi training from Luke, do you?

Rey only agreed to look at a laser sword because the DM decided that Rey left her main weapon on the ship. Pete never said anything to that effect, and it would be such an uncharacteristic decision for an adventurer that I think it's downright unfair for the DM to assume it. If the only laser sword that Maz Kanata has to offer is a cursed one, then it's no surprise that Rey isn't interested. A laser sword could help if a fight breaks out in the bar, but dealing with a cursed laser sword at that point is worse than just using an improvized weapon. And once they return to the ship, Rey will have her weapon once again.

Spoiler: The film

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Her staff being made of ladder sword was not confirmed in any media I confronted. Even then it means nothing more than 'laser swords have hilts that are heavy and solid'. Didn't even notice it. It might have been foreshadowing for Rey building hey own laser sword, but then the cursed series came back.

As a side note, I try to punish players for walking around clearly armed in cities, so I don't see it as that bad if they have a relatively safe place to see their stuff. But that's a quirk of my GMing and paying, you go and grab the big find when you expect combat.

Plus using a laser sword in a bar fight skins like a quick way to get ganged up on.

I honestly expect the thing Pete did that the GM didn't expect is to run away. He might have enough smarts to not pick up the cursed item, but he's running away to no benefit here where there's other ways Rey could react. Almost as if they have to follow the events in stone other piece of media.

[Kantaki]

Chewbacca raises a pretty good point.
But why does he think he'd end up in Wookiee Heaven?

[DaFlipp]

Chewbacca raises a pretty good point.
But why does he think he'd end up in Wookie Heaven?

If faithfully working alongside this particular version of Han Solo for all these years and somehow maintaining his sanity doesn't qualify Chewie for some kind of Wookie Sainthood, I can't imagine what would.

[Metastachydium]

Wookie

Wookie

(You two are some brave heretics!)

[Anonymouswizard]

Just wait, Peelee will venture into the thread soon to tell you how many es are in Wookieee.

[Metastachydium]

Wookieee.

Am I really the only person without a death wish hear?

[Kantaki]

(You two are some brave heretics!)

I have no idea what you're talking about.
The embarrassing part is that I actually looked at the comicto make sure I got Chewbacca right.
Totally missed that second e though.

[Anonymouswizard]

Am I really the only person without a death wish hear?

I had thee right numbeer of es! I just includeed an eextra to bee safee.

[Gez]

C'm'on, spelling "woookiee" isn't that hard!