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  1. - Top - End - #481
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    I mean he is there and he's expected to keep the fight contained, so I don't think that complaint is entirely fair - it's reasonable for Allicio to depend on that fact.

    That said, she's not wrong about Allison, sure, but she's 100% wrong that there's any reason to think giving the key to Zaid would make things better, and there's lots of reasons to think it might make things worse (starting with the fact that everyone pushing to do so is a horrible person with terrible motivations.)
    Yes.

    TBH, the very fact that the Demiurges want to give the key to Zaid should be enough to say he shouldn't get it.

    Given those 2 choices, from what we've seen of Zaid, the choice is easily Allison.

    That's not to say Allison SHOULD get it in a void.

    The problem is that it seems to be a binary choice strangled by prophecy. The only question is how you interpret the prophecy, and the ONLY interpretations possible seem to be either Zaid or Allison.

    'Somebody else' or even 'nobody' doesn't seem to be an option.
    Last edited by Olinser; 2020-01-17 at 10:52 PM.

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  2. - Top - End - #482
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    I mean he is there and he's expected to keep the fight contained, so I don't think that complaint is entirely fair - it's reasonable for Allicio to depend on that fact.
    And because of that she is in fact handling the fight in the way that would cause the least amount of bloodshed.
    Just kicking the arena out beneath people's feet is the simplest way to remove them from the competition.

    It does also highlight the staggering difference between Solomon and everyone else though.
    Not just in strenght. But also in skill.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  3. - Top - End - #483
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Shogo View Post
    Wow. I guess I'm in the minority for thinking White Chain is in the right.

    Oh well. At least the fight is looking interesting.
    I mean, I'm honestly not sure. The universe is clearly a dreary place and only getting worse, and to look at things you do have to start wondering if Alison is the person going to make it better. At the same time, she really may be the destined heir who can work at fixing some of this **** despite the horror and violence that she seems to leave in her wake.
    Thanks to Linklele for my new avatar!
    If i had superpowers. I would go to conventions dressed as myself, and see if i got complimented on my authenticity.

  4. - Top - End - #484
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Aquillion View Post
    I mean he is there and he's expected to keep the fight contained, so I don't think that complaint is entirely fair - it's reasonable for Allicio to depend on that fact.

    That said, she's not wrong about Allison, sure, but she's 100% wrong that there's any reason to think giving the key to Zaid would make things better, and there's lots of reasons to think it might make things worse (starting with the fact that everyone pushing to do so is a horrible person with terrible motivations.)
    Allicio? Is she a split personality JoJo villain

    I never said White Chain is in the right. But keep in mind, everyone pushing White Chain about the key, is an Angel. So much more trustworthy than a Devil (ancient evil), or a human (ancestor of Angel killer).

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragonus45 View Post
    I mean, I'm honestly not sure. The universe is clearly a dreary place and only getting worse, and to look at things you do have to start wondering if Alison is the person going to make it better. At the same time, she really may be the destined heir who can work at fixing some of this **** despite the horror and violence that she seems to leave in her wake.
    Knowing the universe, violence is inescapable, should mean life gets worse.
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  5. - Top - End - #485
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by BRC View Post
    "Violence" is a very loaded term in K6BD, being used both in terms of the common definition (Doing Harm to Others), and in a sense of exerting your own will upon others/the universe.

    White Chain is an Angel, an agent of the Law. In one sense, Angels are very Violent, because they are very skilled at inflicting harm on others.
    In another sense, they are not violent, because they are agents of the Law, who (theoretically) do not act upon their own will.

    A Sword is a tool of Violence, but it it not itself Violent.

    White Chain, who we've been told is especially Lawful, even for an Angel, was helping Allison because she saw Allison as a tool for giving the Key to Zaid, who the angels think is the true Heir.

    "Your Only Talent is Violence" here I don't think refers to Allison's abilities as an Asskicker. As we've seen, she's barely competent once you get past ordinary street thugs. Until Cio showed up to actually USE the massive power battery the Key provides, Allison wasn't much of a fighter.

    What Allison IS, is incredibly willful, which, to an entity of Law like White Chain, is a problem.

    Look at the whole statement "Would You Return the Key to the Rightful Heir? You whose only talent is Violence?" It's not that Allison is a brute who is only good at hurting things, it's that she's not going to obediently give up the incredible power in her brow in the name of somebody else's plan.She's either going to fail, or she's going to be another Demiurge, another mad warlord whose will can only be checked by other, equally mad warlords.
    This 100%.

    This is the way I see it:

    Violence in KSBD had two meanings: Harm or Will.

    You can even look at the two in the grid and align it with the Temperature / Color grid of the four groups of Inheritors:

    White Flame (ANTI-WILL) Black Flame (WILL)
    Extreme Temp (Cold/Hot) (HARM) Protectors Destroyers
    Moderate Temp (Cool/Warm)(ANTI-HARM) Sustainers Perceivers

    As such you can guess the average (there are always exceptions)way each of the four inheritors are going to act.

    Protectors (Angels) are supposed to prevent Acts and abuse of the Will. They are not against Harm as a principal and use harm to enforce law that corrals acts of the Will. In fact that is what Law is. It is ritualized and sanctioned Harm that curtails Will. The theory is that Will leads to Harm, and if you use Harm to prevent greater Harm you should, as long as you are not willful about it.

    Destroyers (Devils) are Will personified and prove the theory of the Protectors that Will always leads to Harm. In fact Destroyers use Harm to sustain their Will. For them Harm and Will are in fact indistinguishable.

    Sustainers (Servants) are supposed (again on average, clearly their are exceptions. In fact you can see that the story of KSBD is the dangers of when individuals do not act as they are supposed to per this rubric) to neither Harm NOR be willful. They are supposed to serve (forfeit their will to the will of another or the will of a group).

    Perceivers (Humans) are supposed to be willful and NOT Harmful. They were a mistake but the idea seems to be that the warm black flame was supposed to encourage creativity and not destruction. Protectors can point to how when a Perceiver becomes TOO willful it will lean towards destruction rather than creativity, which is why Law exists to manage the will allowing the supposed natural tendency to reduce harm to flourish.

    One can look at White Chain's journey thus as follows:

    White Chain trains Alison in the tools of Harm in the hopes that doing so Alison would recognize the dangers of Will. In doing so White Chain was Wrong as such training was against Alison's nature as a Perceiver which is against Harm and Willful. Clio on the other hand is closer aligned to Alison as they are both creatures of WILL. However Clio is also wrong as she also represents Harm as Will, the idea that only the strong can be free and that the weak always have other's will imposed on them. White Chain recognizes that that is the philosophy of the Demiurges. White Chain also recognizes that s/he was wrong as well. The solution is that Alison need to be instructed by a servant or another human in the ideals of Non-Harm.
    Last edited by mystic1110; 2020-01-22 at 11:44 AM.
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  6. - Top - End - #486
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Hamsandlich View Post
    The Fourth Syllable of Royalty: Living is an exercise of violence. Exercise of violence is the fate of living
    Do you have a link where the syllables are explained/ their meanings summarized?

  7. - Top - End - #487
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Um. Ok, so apparently 'everyone knows who that is'. Except I don't - I have no idea. Who is the coughing guy?

  8. - Top - End - #488
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    Um. Ok, so apparently 'everyone knows who that is'. Except I don't - I have no idea. Who is the coughing guy?
    10 Vigilant Gaze Purges the Horizon.

    Seen ... here
    May you get EXACTLY what you wish for.

  9. - Top - End - #489
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    Um. Ok, so apparently 'everyone knows who that is'. Except I don't - I have no idea. Who is the coughing guy?
    10 Vigilant Gaze Purges the Horizon
    Spoiler: YinBao
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexanderML View Post
    Yea, that is a nice rabbit.
    Quote Originally Posted by Razade View Post
    YinBao is fluffy and warm like all rabbits.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatter View Post
    Yes, I am a shameless YinBao fan...
    Quote Originally Posted by Phobia View Post
    YinBao and Ran Yang Li. The ultimate bromance! XD

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    HOW HAS THIS WORLD BECOME SO AWED BY A PATHETIC, TIRED CHICKEN?
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    All Praise In-Arl for his wisdom and tasty dark meat.
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    Yay! PTSD Chicken!

  10. - Top - End - #490
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by sihnfahl View Post
    10 Vigilant Gaze Purges the Horizon.

    Seen ... here
    Quote Originally Posted by mystic1110 View Post
    Ahh yes. I get it now. It's always surprising to me how anyone manages to remember characters like that - when they're off-screen for months on end =)

    Thanks.

  11. - Top - End - #491
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    I really liked the comb story. Simple but meaningful.

  12. - Top - End - #492
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Yeah. So did it. It also served as a nice reminder for White chain.
    And oh god Juggernaut continues to be end-boss levels of nasty.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  13. - Top - End - #493
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Mostly because he strikes first while the other angels are still praying. We haven't really seen Gaze let loose so far.
    "Après la vie - le mort, après le mort, la vie de noveau.
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  14. - Top - End - #494
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Perhaps, but i doubt thats the explanation.
    Gaze was still in the middle of a technique, we saw his hand close around a miniature star as he were just about to complete the prayer,
    and punch Juggernaut. But Juggernaut completed its technique faster, and so it got Gaze as he was moving in.

    And it also makes sense Juggernaut is a lot stronger.
    Angels condense and grow stronger as they age. And Juggernaut is only on its 6th incarnation.

    Edit.

    Alright what the heck is up with Juggernaut?
    Once more it (she?) lost interest in the fight.
    After displaying an almost beastial degree of savagery moments before.
    Last edited by lord_khaine; 2020-03-08 at 02:52 PM.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  15. - Top - End - #495
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    HADOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKEN! !

    But naw in all seriousness, this has 'No Sell' written all over it. It doesn't look like they know about the wheel, he's just blasting JuggerNot.
    Last edited by Olinser; 2020-03-18 at 10:28 PM.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Olinser View Post
    TBH, the very fact that the Demiurges want to give the key to Zaid should be enough to say he shouldn't get it.
    Do they though? Inky & Gog are Allison fans. Mottom was one, fell out of love.
    Jagganoth, Mammon and Jadis dont care for different reasons.
    Leaves Solomon, who is just keeping an eye on Zaid. I'm quite sure solomon thinks he is himself better suited to be king, even if it would be an oh so terrible burden.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Leaves Solomon, who is just keeping an eye on Zaid. I'm quite sure solomon thinks he is himself better suited to be king, even if it would be an oh so terrible burden.
    Oh crud.. this again? what the heck is there with people being utterly unable to see past their own crazy bias against Solomon?
    Solomon is a thousand year old statesman. Of course he is better suited for the role of king than a random teenager.
    Its also just very well established that he -does- indeed no want the job. He want to progress towards becomming true royalty.

    But naw in all seriousness, this has 'No Sell' written all over it. It doesn't look like they know about the wheel, he's just blasting JuggerNot.
    Well, the Wheel is seemingly nowhere close?
    So if nothing else, blasting JuggerNot does get rid of it for the forseable future.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Oh crud.. this again? what the heck is there with people being utterly unable to see past their own crazy bias against Solomon?
    Solomon is a thousand year old statesman. Of course he is better suited for the role of king than a random teenager.
    Its also just very well established that he -does- indeed no want the job. He want to progress towards becomming true royalty.



    Well, the Wheel is seemingly nowhere close?
    So if nothing else, blasting JuggerNot does get rid of it for the forseable future.
    No its definitely there, we just saw it on the ground 2 comics ago when White Chain pulled JuggerNot out.

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  19. - Top - End - #499
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Ah yeah. Sharp eyes. So thats Juggernauts backup plan.
    Or perhaps more precisely escape plan. The Wheel is hidden in the void.

    Well then im honestly even more certain this will mean the end of JuggerNot.
    As far as i can see, the Wheel acts a bit like a Lich Phylactery. Or a second/backup body for Juggernaut.

    Because we also saw Juggernaut were in her? thorn body before White Chain pulled them off to the void.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Oh crud.. this again? what the heck is there with people being utterly unable to see past their own crazy bias against Solomon?
    Solomon is a thousand year old statesman. Of course he is better suited for the role of king than a random teenager.
    Its also just very well established that he -does- indeed no want the job. He want to progress towards becomming true royalty.
    Yeah, can you believe that people think the immortal tyrant is actually lying? Everyone knows that all dictators everywhere tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Especially when they say that ruling is such a burden, they'd give it up in a heartbeat if they could, but they are a servant of the people and there is no one else who could serve the people half as well. After all, just about every despot has said something like that at some point, so it must be true, right?
    Many thanks to Assassin 89 for this avatar!

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Considering all we've seen it does show the level of Solomon and the other demis if in however many years no one has managed to spill a drop of his blood, presumably this year is abit of a standout but not by that much.

    I do wonder if Gaze is going to get one shotted to once again show Alison is still so far away from where she needs to be.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    If Vigilant Gaze somehow wins, what do you think he will ask for?

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by JavaScribe View Post
    If Vigilant Gaze somehow wins, what do you think he will ask for?
    A telescope.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Yeah, can you believe that people think the immortal tyrant is actually lying? Everyone knows that all dictators everywhere tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Especially when they say that ruling is such a burden, they'd give it up in a heartbeat if they could, but they are a servant of the people and there is no one else who could serve the people half as well. After all, just about every despot has said something like that at some point, so it must be true, right?
    I certainly do believe some people in a lot of cases are fools, who put their bias above their head.
    And then try to justify it to themselves with "oh he must be lying, i dislike him so when his actions treaten my world view, they have to be an elaborate ruse"
    Except we dont actually have any evidence of Solomon lying.

    And got a decently sized mountain of evidence to the contrary.
    Solomon -is- the ultimate ruler of his realm. He dont need to lie to anyone.
    he certainly dont need to go though the massive chore of repeatedly holding DBZ-style tournaments to find someone strong enough to take over.

    I also cant understand why its such a strange concept to people, that after playing Civilisation X for a couple hundred years it gets stale,
    and makes you want to move on to something else.

    edit.
    Bam!
    Yes that was a pretty clear ending to the fight. Juggernaut did not manage to get up from tha blow.
    Even if it did not break the shell, it did cripple it. Poor Juggernaut, all the spikes go the wrong way now :D

    Though at the same time, i think Gaze will concede the fight against Dave, since its not a price he wants.
    He was just there for White Chain.
    Last edited by lord_khaine; 2020-03-21 at 09:43 AM.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    And got a decently sized mountain of evidence to the contrary.
    Solomon -is- the ultimate ruler of his realm. He dont need to lie to anyone.
    he certainly dont need to go though the massive chore of repeatedly holding DBZ-style tournaments to find someone strong enough to take over.
    He probably needs to lie at least to himself. "You still think you are the good guy", Mottom said. Another problem, he deems himself more important to his empire than he actually is. His ruling practices are questionable in several points, including thinking that a tournament is actually a good method of choosing a ruler.

    EDIT: And I think he enjoys the tournaments, even if their true purpose isn't clear yet imo.
    Last edited by Rydiro; 2020-03-25 at 07:44 AM.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    He probably needs to lie at least to himself. "You still think you are the good guy", Mottom said. Another problem, he deems himself more important to his empire than he actually is. His ruling practices are questionable in several points, including thinking that a tournament is actually a good method of choosing a ruler.

    EDIT: And I think he enjoys the tournaments, even if their true purpose isn't clear yet imo.
    No. Thats unfortunately not the case.
    SD is 100% as important for his empire as he think. And a tournament is one of the better ways to pick a ruler.

    Since without SD, the empire dont have any protection against other demi-urges.
    Or even potentially rampaging angels.

    Thats also why there is a tournament. If your not at least strong enough to draw blood from SD.
    Then your not strong enough to protect the empire.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Since without SD, the empire dont have any protection against other demi-urges.
    Or even potentially rampaging angels.
    Which doesn't mean he actually needs to rule. Its like saying every state needs to be a military/police state, because there are criminals and hostile nations.
    Solomon could limit himself to demiurge meetings and being the celestial empires nuclear option. And otherwise pursue royalty. Like gog-agog; she doesnt care about ruling, her worlds are protected just fine by the pact. She is rather a superstar/pest.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    New Comic!

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    An obvious choice. Man, say what you want about King Salami, but he has style.

    Dishing out DQ left and right. It subverted my expectations unless Alisson decides to strike at him, which given her exhaustion is unlikely.
    Ruler of Floating pyramids.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    I see a bunch of fine red mist coming up.


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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    I can see two people smart enough to run, and one, maybe two people smart enough to stay in place.

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