Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning threads

[lord_khaine]

Which doesn't mean he actually needs to rule. Its like saying every state needs to be a military/police state, because there are criminals and hostile nations.
Solomon could limit himself to demiurge meetings and being the celestial empires nuclear option. And otherwise pursue royalty. Like gog-agog; she doesnt care about ruling, her worlds are protected just fine by the pact. She is rather a superstar/pest.

It is true Solomon dont need to rule. He is likely the ultimate autority. So he can delegate out as much as he want.
But i dont think he can pursue royalty when still attached to the role of the Celestrial Empire's Father.

Also, yeah i spot 4 people in total who passes on the Darvin award.
The moment SD made the arena should have everyone who isnt angel tier realize its safer to aim for bronce.

[JavaScribe]

This does seem to be the overall moral of the story. The wise, understanding both the odds and the consequences, sit and do nothing. But the fools act. The vast, vast majority of them suffer horrible deaths, but the tiny number of lucky mangled survivors get stuff done. Sure, the stuff they get done is usually for the worse, but very rarely, it's even for the better, and even for the worse is still better than sitting and doing nothing.

[Kaptin Keen]

So ... like the nice guy that he is, Solomon is going to personally and unceremoniously murderize each and every single one of them. Not a villain at all.

[lord_khaine]

Yeah. Not a villain. I do agree.
Since each and every one of them is charging towards him with a raised weapon.
After having gotten a very clear demonstration of just how powerful Solomon is.
They 100 % picked this fight of their own free will.

Where it should even be pointed out. Each and every one of the maniacs rushing towards Solomon were offered a large reward for not doing so.
Land. Titles. Wealth.

[PraetorDragoon]

Pretty sure this is what they signed up for anyway.

[Narkis]

Yes. I generally think Solomon is a brutal, murderous, oppressive dictator who deserves nothing but death. But in this case, he's 100% justified in brutally murdering the people who are satisfied by nothing less than replacing him as Emperor of 1/7th of the multiverse, and are attacking him for it at this very moment. He has already given them every chance to bow out.

[-D-]

So ... like the nice guy that he is, Solomon is going to personally and unceremoniously murderize each and every single one of them. Not a villain at all.

He's not nice, but between the one who would burn you for the crime of occupying nearby space, witch that would turn you into a tree, demented dragon that would kill you with their traps, sentinent swarm superstar that would turn you Borg, monster that would turn you into a shell of no meaning, Solomon wins by default. Jadis is close second, but I assume her realm is depression gave manifest.

They saw what he could do. He offered them reward for participating and told them the penalty. People charging at him either have too much confidence or survival instinct of lemmings.

[slayerx]

Yeah. Not a villain. I do agree.
Since each and every one of them is charging towards him with a raised weapon.
After having gotten a very clear demonstration of just how powerful Solomon is.
They 100 % picked this fight of their own free will.

Where it should even be pointed out. Each and every one of the maniacs rushing towards Solomon were offered a large reward for not doing so.
Land. Titles. Wealth.

here's the question i would ask... How many of these fighters are here because they wanted a piece of Solomon?

Pretty much the main reasons people would be willing to give up Land, Wealth and Titles to attack Solomon is because they hate him and entered this tournament for a chance to kill him. Heck even one who wanted to take his key and his power would simply take the reward and just wait for the next tournament if they had an ounce of sense. I'm willing to bet Solomon knows this and its why he made this offer. He wants to make everyone think he's being benevolent while making all his enemies seems like they are the irrational ones, when many of them may have been his past victims. He knows they hate him, he knows if given the chance to to attack him they will, and he knows he can kill them all. Frankly, I would say a truly benevolent man would not give people the opportunity to make a pointless suicidal charge when he knows they would take it.

In many ways Solomon seems like a great king. He built a grand kingdom and treats his people well... but what about the rest of the multiverse? Did Solomon build his kingdom though simple hard work, or did he build it on the sacrifices of many OTHER kingdoms? And one may ask, if Solomon shows up on your world saying he will make it part of his own to make it better while making his empire greater; would he actually respect "no" as an answer? Cause if not, then things would not work out well for the people who liked their world and didn't want to be part of his empire

[lord_khaine]

here's the question i would ask... How many of these fighters are here because they wanted a piece of Solomon?

Pretty much the main reasons people would be willing to give up Land, Wealth and Titles to attack Solomon is because they hate him and entered this tournament for a chance to kill him. Heck even one who wanted to take his key and his power would simply take the reward and just wait for the next tournament if they had an ounce of sense. I'm willing to bet Solomon knows this and its why he made this offer. He wants to make everyone think he's being benevolent while making all his enemies seems like they are the irrational ones, when many of them may have been his past victims. He knows they hate him, he knows if given the chance to to attack him they will, and he knows he can kill them all. Frankly, I would say a truly benevolent man would not give people the opportunity to make a pointless suicidal charge when he knows they would take it.

In many ways Solomon seems like a great king. He built a grand kingdom and treats his people well... but what about the rest of the multiverse? Did Solomon build his kingdom though simple hard work, or did he build it on the sacrifices of many OTHER kingdoms? And one may ask, if Solomon shows up on your world saying he will make it part of his own to make it better while making his empire greater; would he actually respect "no" as an answer? Cause if not, then things would not work out well for the people who liked their world and didn't want to be part of his empire

Oh gods, this again? here we got a prime example of irrational hate.
You have straight up managed to make up a mini story about how awful Solomon is, based on nothing besides that you hate him yourself.

None of this is supported by the comic. Solomon isnt generally hated. We straight up have word of god on him being seen as harsh but just.
And he dont need to make anyone think anything. He is god. He can do what he want. he does not need to make people see him as anything.
No, the reason for why those people charged in is the simplest. They were blinded by greed and pride.

[Kaptin Keen]

If you're nigh-all-powerful .... and nice, ok? Then maybe you could be merciful - rather than slaughter hundreds of people for the enjoyment of the audience, and yourself in particular, if you were a benevolent person, you might eject them from the arena relatively unscathed. It would fulfill the same purpose, and require no bloodshed.

If you're nigh-all-powerful, and an utter villain, there's really no conflict - you murder them all, no questions asked. That'll teach 'em.

Make no mistake: He choses murder. Given a wide array of un-insane options at his disposal - he picks the one that let's him murder the most people.

[-D-]

If you're nigh-all-powerful .... and nice, ok? Then maybe you could be merciful - rather than slaughter hundreds of people for the enjoyment of the audience, and yourself in particular, if you were a benevolent person, you might eject them from the arena relatively unscathed. It would fulfill the same purpose, and require no bloodshed.

If you're nigh-all-powerful, and an utter villain, there's really no conflict - you murder them all, no questions asked. That'll teach 'em.

Make no mistake: He choses murder. Given a wide array of un-insane options at his disposal - he picks the one that lets him murder the most people.

Anyone that was merciful and nice was exterminated in the Demiurge wars hundreds or thousands of years ago.

If Dave was really going to let them live, he'd just be seen as weak by other demiurges. I mean they can throw their warriors at him, and he'll spend himself to spare them. Then send another wave and another. There aren't any decent choices here. You show yourself as anything less than a bloodthirsty tyrant and the other six gank-up on you to take your Key.

[Kaptin Keen]

Anyone that was merciful and nice was exterminated in the Demiurge wars hundreds or thousands of years ago.

If Dave was really going to let them live, he'd just be seen as weak by other demiurges. I mean they can throw their warriors at him, and he'll spend himself to spare them. Then send another wave and another. There aren't any decent choices here. You show yourself as anything less than a bloodthirsty tyrant and the other six gank-up on you to take your Key.

While this is all propably true, that's all a matter of demiurge competitiveness. It's separate from morals. So what you're saying is that all the demiurges are villains - not that Sal isn't one.

Also, I think there's a space for being merciful to those who pose no threat to you, that doesn't cost you any demiurge street-cred.

[-D-]

While this is all propably true, that's all a matter of demiurge competitiveness. It's separate from morals. So what you're saying is that all the demiurges are villains - not that Sal isn't one.

Also, I think there's a space for being merciful to those who pose no threat to you, that doesn't cost you any demiurge street-cred.

Yeah, they are all different flavors of villany. I do wonder if Alison becomes this as well.

We're all victims of circumstances. Under right conditions we could celebrate anything, even eating babies as being the morally right thing to do.

How would mercy against those who attack you be in any way beneficial to a wannabe demiurge? If Dave was that merciful, he'd been already dead. Everyone else just kills their opposition and you leave your weaker opponents alive. Good luck now you have to deal with everyone else and the riff raff you spared.

[Kaptin Keen]

Yeah, they are all different flavors of villany. I do wonder if Alison becomes this as well.

We're all victims of circumstances. Under right conditions we could celebrate anything, even eating babies as being the morally right thing to do.

How would mercy against those who attack you be in any way beneficial to a wannabe demiurge? If Dave was that merciful, he'd been already dead. Everyone else just kills their opposition and you leave your weaker opponents alive. Good luck now you have to deal with everyone else and the riff raff you spared.

Villainy creates opposition. If you kill all your enemies - you get even more enemies. This is the basic conundrum of villainy.

[-D-]

Villainy creates opposition. If you kill all your enemies - you get even more enemies. This is the basic conundrum of villainy.

Depends. Acts of both good and evil can net you enemies.

Violence is the basic tenet of K6BD. Anyone having a vendetta against the immortal demigod is delusional, barring Key wielders and strongest members of their style of combat.

[Kaptin Keen]

Depends. Acts of both good and evil can net you enemies.

Violence is the basic tenet of K6BD. Anyone having a vendetta against the immortal demigod is delusional, barring Key wielders and strongest members of their style of combat.

Generally though, good will net you more goodwill than evil.

Obviously, within the context of K6BD, violence is the key note around which most (or even all) things revolve - it's that kind of comic. But morality, to my mind, cannot be interpreted solely in the context of this comic, that's ... well, pointless. Morality within an entirely imaginary framework cannot be morality. So to speak.

[lord_khaine]

If you're nigh-all-powerful .... and nice, ok? Then maybe you could be merciful - rather than slaughter hundreds of people for the enjoyment of the audience, and yourself in particular, if you were a benevolent person, you might eject them from the arena relatively unscathed. It would fulfill the same purpose, and require no bloodshed.

Except. Someone -did- already eject them from the arena relatively unscathed.
And showed them just how insignificant they were in the grand scheme of things. As the person who ejected them were then trashed herself by an angel.
Then given the chance, they still decide to pick up their swords and run back in again. After having been told they had already won riches and fame.
But they could not control their greed. Live by the sword, die by the sword. The world is likely better off without them and their lack of restraint.

Something more important that got blocked out by the Solomon hate parade though, is god -dam- he is fast.
Thats Son Goku or flash level of fast. Likely flash fast actually.
He is covering what 10 meters so fast stuff are hanging frozen in the air.
Or well judging from comments it might be he has frozen time.

[Kaptin Keen]

Except.

Except nothing.

It's totally irrelevant what happened before.

Right now, this scene, he's deliberately chosing to murder them all. Nothing else needs to be taken into consideration.

[Narkis]

Except nothing.

It's totally irrelevant what happened before.

Right now, this scene, he's deliberately chosing to murder them all. Nothing else needs to be taken into consideration.

Ignoring context is the perfect way to miss the forest for the trees. I'm sure you have a hero you admire, fictional or historic, who at some point had to kill some people for what you consider good reasons. But if you find irrelevant what happened before, they all are nothing but cold-blooded killers. In the entire history of mankind, as well as its collective repository of stories, only Gandhi (and possibly Batman) would qualify as not-killers under your criteria.

[-D-]

Morality within an entirely imaginary framework cannot be morality. So to speak.

Morality itself is an imaginary framework, that depends on situation.

If our species evolved from creatures with different breeding strategy, e.g. giving birth to thousands at once, they would have strong evolutionary pressure to kill most of their eggs. For them being baby eaters could be considered a morally just position. Even a compliment.

So is eating babies morally virtuous? Depends on the context.

[Kaptin Keen]

Ignoring context is the perfect way to miss the forest for the trees. I'm sure you have a hero you admire, fictional or historic, who at some point had to kill some people for what you consider good reasons. But if you find irrelevant what happened before, they all are nothing but cold-blooded killers. In the entire history of mankind, as well as its collective repository of stories, only Gandhi (and possibly Batman) would qualify as not-killers under your criteria.

I did not say ignore context.

In terms of morality, however, there are basically no excuses. If what you're doing is basically evil - it has zero bearing how good your reasons are. Even the classical moral dilemmas ... aren't. It may be 'better' to run the tram over 1 guy rather than 5 - but the only morally good solution is to find another. Stop the tram, or jump off, push the 1 guy to safety, despite having to sacrifice your own life to do it.

Context is all nice and fluffy, but it does not make evil good. Ever.

Morality itself is an imaginary framework, that depends on situation.

If our species evolved from creatures with different breeding strategy, e.g. giving birth to thousands at once, they would have strong evolutionary pressure to kill most of their eggs. For them being baby eaters could be considered a morally just position. Even a compliment.

So is eating babies morally virtuous? Depends on the context.

Morality is not imaginary. It may be arbitrary (debatable) but it's most certainly real.

Now - with all due respect, this is getting progressively more off-topic. And I'm not asking anyone to adopt my morally absolutist stance. All I'm saying is: Solomon is electing to murder everyone in the arena. That makes him a villain.

[halfeye]

Morality is not imaginary.

If you have a proof of that, let's see it. Philosophers have been looking for millenia. Otherwise, you are mistaken.

Ignoring context is the perfect way to miss the forest for the trees. I'm sure you have a hero you admire, fictional or historic, who at some point had to kill some people for what you consider good reasons. But if you find irrelevant what happened before, they all are nothing but cold-blooded killers. In the entire history of mankind, as well as its collective repository of stories, only Gandhi (and possibly Batman) would qualify as not-killers under your criteria.

There are billions (probably well over 6 billion if the world population is currently 7 billion, more if it's more), of humans who have never directly killed a human.

[-D-]

Morality is not imaginary. It may be arbitrary (debatable) but it's most certainly real.

Ok. Show me a quantuum of morality.

All I'm saying is: Solomon is electing to murder everyone in the arena. That makes him a villain.

That's a misrepresentation. Solomon gave everyone a choice - take power,wealth or prestige. Or attack me or anyone else, and I'll kill you.

Whatever he did here, doesn't make him a villain.

[Ibrinar]

So if I walked into a bar and said "100 million dollar to whoever beats me, but I will kill you if you try" I am morally (though not legally) in the clear for shooting any that tries? I see the logic but I don't really agree with it. Unnecessarily goading people (who don't even have a real chance against you) in life and death contests does imo put you into villain territory even if they are risking their live willingly. Unnecessarily preying on reckless people is still preying on people.

[Kaptin Keen]

If you have a proof of that, let's see it. Philosophers have been looking for millenia. Otherwise, you are mistaken.

There are billions (probably well over 6 billion if the world population is currently 7 billion, more if it's more), of humans who have never directly killed a human.

That is not correct. Philosophers have been looking for a universal measure of morality. But that morality is a real thing is not in question - not in the least. Color is precisely as much a social construct. Would you like to argue that color is imaginary?

Ok. Show me a quantuum of morality.

That's a misrepresentation. Solomon gave everyone a choice - take power,wealth or prestige. Or attack me or anyone else, and I'll kill you.

Whatever he did here, doesn't make him a villain.

Yes - it does. It also makes them idiots.

But it simply doesn't matter what your reasons are. Any time you elect to murder anyone, for any reason - if there are peaceful alternatives you might just as well chose .... you are evil.

Now. The end. I have nothing more to say on the matter, it has become a major derail, which I did not intend. I only meant to comment, and as a joke, at that.

[lord_khaine]

Except nothing.

It's totally irrelevant what happened before.

Right now, this scene, he's deliberately chosing to murder them all. Nothing else needs to be taken into consideration.

Except everything. All of it is relevant. Since your primary assumption is in fact flawed.

Solomon is -not- murdering anyone. Murder is the unlawful killing of another human without justification or valid excuse.
Since this is in a duel where lethal force is allowed, then it is in fact lawful.
And since every single person about to die had been warned, then there is indeed valid excuse.

[halfeye]

That is not correct. Philosophers have been looking for a universal measure of morality. But that morality is a real thing is not in question - not in the least. Color is precisely as much a social construct. Would you like to argue that color is imaginary?

Colour is a function of human biology. In physics, there is no colour, or to put it another way, every colour is just light, even colours like gamma rays that humans can't see are perfectly good colours.

In physics, there is no morality. There is morality as a human idea, but it's pretty clearly a function of human imagination.

[-D-]

So if I walked into a bar and said "100 million dollar to whoever beats me, but I will kill you if you try" I am morally (though not legally) in the clear for shooting any that tries? I see the logic but I don't really agree with it.

To answer that question, you would need to be born in K6BD world. And in that world, I'd say yes. You are right doing that.

Also it would still not be what David said. More appropriate version would be "100 mil if you beat me, 1 mil if you stay put, but I kill anyone that goes after me".

[lord_khaine]

Also it would still not be what David said. More appropriate version would be "100 mil if you beat me, 1 mil if you stay put, but I kill anyone that goes after me".

Yeah this version is a lot more appropriate. And even it isnt completely covering.
Its missing the bit where you only issue the challenge to the survivors of your gladiator games.
So everyone has had a chance to think it though.

And then before giving the challenge you casually smack a polar bear around, to show your not all talk.
So everyone does know what they are walking into.

At that point, no i dont think you have a moral obligation to spare any of the people who could not settle for 1 mil.

[-D-]

And then before giving the challenge you casually smack a polar bear around, to show your not all talk.
So everyone does know what they are walking into.

If this references smack-talking an Angel, it's talk. Still, **** taking an angel takes some massive balls.

Not to mention, this whole battle royale was done, to stop Gogagog's rigging the game.

To summarize: What David knows is that Gog-agog, a Demiurge, has infiltrated someone in the ring and is rigging matches. Rules of the ring normally are if you are out of field, you surrender or you die. He merely changed the format to PUBG and declared victors in accordance with old rules. He went out of his way to offer anyone formally disqualified, due to rules change, either consolation prize or another strike at him, at the penalty of death.

It's completely rational thing to do under the circumstances. He suspects Alisson is Agog's agent but doesn't mean Alisson is the only agent. This way they either submit or they die.