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  1. - Top - End - #541
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    If this references smack-talking an Angel, it's talk. Still, **** taking an angel takes some massive balls.
    No im as such referencing how SD kept the entire arena up though force of will alone.
    And sheltered the entire audience from Gaze's aura bolt attack without apperent efford.
    Honestly. This is a little like that old tale with the Monkey King and Budha.
    Where just like the Monkey King, the majority of participants were to blind so see what went on.

    Not to mention, this whole battle royale was done, to stop Gogagog's rigging the game.

    To summarize: What David knows is that Gog-agog, a Demiurge, has infiltrated someone in the ring and is rigging matches. Rules of the ring normally are if you are out of field, you surrender or you die. He merely changed the format to PUBG and declared victors in accordance with old rules. He went out of his way to offer anyone formally disqualified, due to rules change, either consolation prize or another strike at him, at the penalty of death.

    It's completely rational thing to do under the circumstances. He suspects Alisson is Agog's agent but doesn't mean Alisson is the only agent. This way they either submit or they die.
    As i understood. The rule of the ring was you lose if your either knocked out of the ring, or surrender.
    But because it seemed like Gog Agog was up to something he made it a FFA.

    And i dont think this surprise round has anything to do with Allison or Gog Agog?
    Likely what he stated was the pure truth. That as such it was a little unfair for White Chain to have to fight him after emerging from a brutal FFA.
    So now he shows off some of his moves as compensation.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  2. - Top - End - #542
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    He said "It's over, but the only victor (White chain) is in no condition to fight"
    White Chain objected, saying that "The emperor says you're in no condition to fight" isn't one of the conditions for disqualification.

    He then responds, yes, that's true. But, if we ARE doing another round, plenty of others were disqualified under conditions they may consider unfair, either because the format switched to Battle Royal, or because Alicio, who was not a valid entrant, smashed up the ring.

    I'm moslty just reading this as Lawful Oneupmanship. White Chain called him out on strict adherence to the rules, and he one-upped her by saying "Well, TECHNICALLY, a bunch of these people were not eliminated fairly according to the rules they entered by. So..."

    SD's thing is Pride. When accused, both of ducking out on his own rules, and indirectly of cowardice, his response is to double-down, both on personal danger, AND on how generous his interpretation of the rules is.
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  3. - Top - End - #543
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    He then responds, yes, that's true. But, if we ARE doing another round, plenty of others were disqualified under conditions they may consider unfair, either because the format switched to Battle Royal, or because Alicio, who was not a valid entrant, smashed up the ring.

    I'm moslty just reading this as Lawful Oneupmanship. White Chain called him out on strict adherence to the rules, and he one-upped her by saying "Well, TECHNICALLY, a bunch of these people were not eliminated fairly according to the rules they entered by. So..."
    Hmm.. no i think it seems pretty clear the one it might be unfair towards is White Chain.
    He is talking about the warrior who won the bid when saying it might be unjust.

    And how would it even work as Lawful Oneupmanship? This bonus round is only an advantage to White Chain.
    As the few people smart enough not to take a swing.

    This is more SD trying to be sporting. He is being challenged to a fight by someone already partially crippled from the previous rounds.
    So he tries to make things a little more fair by entering into a fresh battle royale himself.

    SD's thing is Pride. When accused, both of ducking out on his own rules, and indirectly of cowardice, his response is to double-down, both on personal danger, AND on how generous his interpretation of the rules is.
    You do know the bit about each of the demi-urges having a deadly sin as their theme is entirely fanmade, right?
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  4. - Top - End - #544
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    To me, Solomon is definitely acting immorally* here. He knows, with absolute certainty, that he could kill every other participant with minimum effort and absolutely no risk. He incites their greed with allowing them back into the ring. It doesn't matter if they are attacking him to kill him, he knows they cannot. He might as well have told a million naked babies that he will give them free candy if they manage to touch him and then brought out his automatic weapons. He knows that his response to White Chain will create a whole bunch of needless deaths. It only serves to create the image of his righteousness, that he was attacked by the greedy, that he tried to level the playing field. It is an image. Solomon is all about image.

    That said, the underlying philosophy of might makes right that he adheres to is NOT wrong in this world. Democracy, personal liberties, all take a back seat to survival. The current real world crisis makes clear that most people accept greater restrictions on their right to travel, congregation, etc, if it means safety, and unlike the real world virus the threat in the comic is either slavery, drudgery or non-existence in the hands of any other Demiurge.

    The question is, to me, if Solomon's self-aggrandizement, is then justified? He is important, almost irreplaceable and the cost is the deaths of thousands of persons who were either stupid or greedy on their own. Does it matter that I also believe that he took advantage and entrapped them in their own greed and stupidity?

    At the very least, if not justified, I think his actions may be easily excused.

    *per my standards - let's not get bogged down in debating moral relativism/absolutism - better men and women have tried, still trying, and will try.

  5. - Top - End - #545
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Hmmm, I think the discussion of the morality of Solomon's actions here is missing a key component other then just the specific actions he took before starting this inevitable slaughter. The part where he wants someone to land just that one blow on him. Yes he is basically setting them up with an offer they refuse to refuse, they really could take that sweet deal but as the alt text said every last one of them honestly believes they have a chance, but at the end of the day his motivation isn't a roundabout excuse to use martial arts bull**** breathing techniques on people and I think that matters.
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    They think they have a chance. He, assuredly does not. Again, he’s not wrong in recognizing that someone needs to be his equal for him to morally give up his empire, which is why his current action is so obscene. He knows that none of these people are those equals. He is, in my opinion, using this, as you say, to use bull**** breathing techniques on people.

  7. - Top - End - #547
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    No at the moment none of those people really matters to him.
    What he really wants meanwhile is hard to tell.

    It can really be that its all just in the name of fairness to White Chain.
    Wanting to put himself though something of the same as she had been so that they were on a relatively equal footing.

    Or perhaps he wanted to warn White Chain off because he did not want to fight her before negotiating privately with Allison?

    But what might happen now though, is that Allison is as such in the new game round.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by mystic1110 View Post
    They think they have a chance. He, assuredly does not. Again, he’s not wrong in recognizing that someone needs to be his equal for him to morally give up his empire, which is why his current action is so obscene. He knows that none of these people are those equals. He is, in my opinion, using this, as you say, to use bull**** breathing techniques on people.
    For all he knows someone out there may well be the one who will do it though, the only way to be sure is give all of them the chance.
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  9. - Top - End - #549
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Nah.. i think its absolutely given, that any of the poor smucks who failed to avoid being kicked out of the ring by Allico,
    Would have been blended by Juggernauts Patram Sword Hand Wind of Obliteration attack.
    And if you cant deal with Sword Hand, you should not even think of trying Ki Rata's Total Life Obliteration.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

  10. - Top - End - #550
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    But what might happen now though, is that Allison is as such in the new game round.
    I don't think she is, as she has been forfeited by submission. But then he said every contestant still remaining in the ring (which is pretty much gone), so...
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    The British conquered the world in search of spices and then decided to use none of them.

  11. - Top - End - #551
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    I don't think she is, as she has been forfeited by submission. But then he said every contestant still remaining in the ring (which is pretty much gone), so...
    Yeah.. well the point is everyone but White Chain had been disqualified one way or another.
    And as such the ring is still there. Even if it cover a wider area now :D
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    There's basically only two ways forward though - right?

    Either Sol murder's everyone - or he loses. In other words (since Sol would never go back on his word), either the comic ends because everyones is dead, or it ends because White Chain is now Empress.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    There's basically only two ways forward though - right?

    Either Sol murder's everyone - or he loses. In other words (since Sol would never go back on his word), either the comic ends because everyones is dead, or it ends because White Chain is now Empress.
    Not Really.

    Solomon will crush the fools that decided to fight him in a all vs him battle, then he will duel White Chain. I expect that White Chain will lose, but get a moral victory or how it is called.
    Quote Originally Posted by Celestia View Post
    The British conquered the world in search of spices and then decided to use none of them.

  14. - Top - End - #554
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by PraetorDragoon View Post
    Not Really.

    Solomon will crush the fools that decided to fight him in a all vs him battle, then he will duel White Chain. I expect that White Chain will lose, but get a moral victory or how it is called.
    So ... for some unfathomable reason, after Sol does his thing, murdering hundreds for no reason what so ever - he's then going to spare White Chain, again for no reason what so ever.

    Ok, cool.

    Edit: Actually, I don't want to be too sarcastic here - there are certainly other ways it could go. For one, Allison could barter her key (is it called a key) for White Chain's life. But that would be a poor argument for the point I'm trying to make - that being that Sol is a psycho-fascist bastard without a straight bone in his body.

    So just .. keep that in sight: I'm not trying to insult anyone (except, possibly, Sol)
    Last edited by Kaptin Keen; 2020-04-17 at 11:46 AM.

  15. - Top - End - #555
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    So ... for some unfathomable reason, after Sol does his thing, murdering hundreds for no reason what so ever - he's then going to spare White Chain, again for no reason what so ever.

    Ok, cool.
    Or Alison draws the Emperor's blood, disqualifying the Emperor and halting the event, but the enperor says that since she was prevously disqualified, she doesnt get the empire.

  16. - Top - End - #556
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    So ... for some unfathomable reason, after Sol does his thing, murdering hundreds for no reason what so ever - he's then going to spare White Chain, again for no reason what so ever.
    Again. Your still using that word incorrectly
    Murder is unlawful killing without a reason. This is lawful. And have a reason.

    Edit: Actually, I don't want to be too sarcastic here - there are certainly other ways it could go. For one, Allison could barter her key (is it called a key) for White Chain's life. But that would be a poor argument for the point I'm trying to make - that being that Sol is a psycho-fascist bastard without a straight bone in his body.
    Well.. we still lack an actual argument for the point your trying to make.
    Since it as such against what the comic is telling and showing. Likely SD -only- has straight bones in his entire body.

    Or Alison draws the Emperor's blood, disqualifying the Emperor and halting the event, but the enperor says that since she was prevously disqualified, she doesnt get the empire.
    The Emperor isnt disqualified just because his blood is drawn. Doing so is just the victory condition for the entire event.
    And the prize isnt the empire. Its getting to make a request of the Emperor. And yes you can ask for the empire.
    Or do as Ailison is more likely to do, and ask for Zac.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    All of these predictions seem to be forgetting the Worm the ****posts hanging around in back ready to make everyone's life more difficult.
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Murder is unlawful killing without a reason. This is lawful. And have a reason.
    Monarchs* cannot Murder by definition. Murder is Killing not Sanctioned by the State. Given that the Monarch is the State and Killing the Monarch does is Automatically Sanctioned.

    * Absolute Monarchs that is. Constitutional Monarchs like the British Queen are presumably bound their own laws.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    Murder is unlawful killing without a reason.
    No I'm not.

    See - clearly, we disagree. But you have no idea what the law is in this 100% completely imaginary realm. Sure, you can claim that Sol can make the rules out to be whatever he likes - and I can counterclaim that even then, killing innocents is murder no matter who says what label you stick on it. That's all irrelevant. The only point is this: You feel like accepting his right to murder a few hundred random people, and I do not.

    But even if that wasn't the point, we're not discussing the finer points of the law. We're discussing morality. And as I said, I'm not a part of that discussion - by choice - because it's off-topic.

    So what I'm discussing is a plot point: I feel fairly confident Sol is going to murder (almost) everyone, then suffer a minor wound for some reason, and renege on his promise. Like a boss.

    Although I keep a slight chance open that All trades her key for the life of White Chain - or something along those lines.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    No I'm not.
    Murder is literally unlawful killing with premeditation. By definition. You saying killing is murder is you going off-rails. This isn't premeditated nor against the law. You might think it's from your perspective, but there is no absolute morality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    So what I'm discussing is a plot point: I feel fairly confident Sol is going to murder (almost) everyone, then suffer a minor wound for some reason, and renege on his promise.
    I don't think this will happen. Allison might strike out of anger and outside of rules. Angels don't enforce demiurges. Cio might care, but she isn't suicidal.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by -D- View Post
    Murder is literally unlawful killing with premeditation. By definition. You saying killing is murder is you going off-rails. This isn't premeditated nor against the law. You might think it's from your perspective, but there is no absolute morality.
    So .... before someone wrote that law, there couldn't be murder. By definition.

    I do not agree. So that's the end of that debate.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    So .... before someone wrote that law, there couldn't be murder. By definition.

    I do not agree. So that's the end of that debate.
    The word you want is killing. Killing is not always murder, but murder is always killing.

  23. - Top - End - #563
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    So .... before someone wrote that law, there couldn't be murder. By definition.

    I do not agree. So that's the end of that debate.
    Your agreement isnt needed. This isnt a subjective term.
    So yes. There isnt really much to debate.

    I don't think this will happen. Allison might strike out of anger and outside of rules. Angels don't enforce demiurges. Cio might care, but she isn't suicidal.
    The relevant bit is if its outside of the rules right now. SD did technically start a new round for everyone.
    And im quite certain the Angels wished they could enforce Demiurges :D
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    There isnt really much to debate.
    That is precisely accurate.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Murder is a legal term, yes. Without a legal system, even a primitive one, it's not murder.
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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Eldan View Post
    Murder is a legal term, yes. Without a legal system, even a primitive one, it's not murder.
    No - that's simply not true. You do not get to define language to suit your needs (nor do I, obviously). Language is a living thing, and words mean what people decide they mean. As such, I'm positive you're aware that opposite sides of a conflict will call what the other side is doing murder.

    Actual use of the word defines it's meaning - not a textbook definition.

    Also, I utterly refuse to debate semantics. You know precisely that I mean.

    So the definition of the word is off the table. If you have an actual point, let's hear it.

    Otherwise, I say we leave well enough alone, and move on.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    No - that's simply not true. You do not get to define a language to suit your needs (nor do I, obviously). Language is a living thing, and words mean what people decide they mean. As such, I'm positive you're aware that opposite sides of a conflict will call what the other side is doing murder.

    Actual use of the word defines it's meaning - not a textbook definition.
    Yeah, but no one here uses that term how you use it. So I don't see it your point. I can say murder means a gathering of bikers, does that mean language has evolved - NO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptin Keen View Post
    So .... before someone wrote that law, there couldn't be murder. By definition.
    Yes. It's not a murder. Just some guy killing another.

    It's like saying Cannibalism is a crime.
    From your PoV - yes.
    PoV of someone in Ancient Greece - yes.
    From PoV of someone who grew in Papua New Guinea, it's a sign of respect. For someone in Africa, cannibalism is a part of life.

    Any highly debatable thing was at some point probably done by some society. Context dictates which behavior survives. Surviving Behavior is encoded into traditions. Traditions become morality.

    Quote Originally Posted by lord_khaine View Post
    The relevant bit is if its outside of the rules right now. SD did technically start a new round for everyone.
    And im quite certain the Angels wished they could enforce Demiurges :D
    My impression was that only those down in the ring can strike at the emperor. I guess it depends on rules-lawyering. Are White Chain, Cio, Alison in the ring?

    Angels aren't suicidal I think (other than White Chain). If Alison strikes now, she and anyone that defends her are dead, barring interruptions.

    EDIT: Corrected, ritual eating was in Papua New Guinea. Not in Africa.
    Last edited by -D-; 2020-04-18 at 09:49 AM.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by -D- View Post
    It's like saying Cannibalism is a crime. I mean, yes from your PoV. Or from PoV of someone in Ancient Greece - yes.

    From PoV of someone who grew in Afrika, it's a time-honored tradition or even a burial rite.
    That wasn't typically Africa. The burial rite was Papua New Guinea:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuru_(disease)

    Cannibalism of enemies was pretty widespread in the past:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_cannibalism
    The end of what Son? The story? There is no end. There's just the point where the storytellers stop talking.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    Quote Originally Posted by halfeye View Post
    That wasn't typically Africa. The burial rite was Papua New Guinea:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuru_(disease)

    Cannibalism of enemies was pretty widespread in the past:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_cannibalism
    You are correct, however my point is that if you look at geographically and chronologically distant countries you see quite different behavior patterns and morality. Some thought pedophilia was ok, some thought cannibalism is ok, some thought revenge or ritual killings were ok.

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    Default Re: Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning thr

    No - that's simply not true. You do not get to define language to suit your needs (nor do I, obviously). Language is a living thing, and words mean what people decide they mean. As such, I'm positive you're aware that opposite sides of a conflict will call what the other side is doing murder.
    Yes. Because opposite sides of a conflict also intentionally use the word incorrectly because they want to frame the narrative.

    Thats annoying enough when politicans do so. Even more so when people does so in a forum debate.
    If you want the topic off the table, then you could always start speaking the same language as the rest of us.

    Except of course that murder is more emotionally charged than kill. But if your arguments had enough weight then likely they would not need that weight.
    And you could settle for whats actually going on, namely that Solomon is about to kill a lot of hostile combatants.

    My impression was that only those down in the ring can strike at the emperor. I guess it depends on rules-lawyering. Are White Chain, Cio, Alison in the ring?

    Angels aren't suicidal I think (other than White Chain). If Alison strikes now, she and anyone that defends her are dead, barring interruptions.
    Well as such, the only ring thats actually left is the one that consist of the arena's floor.
    Everything else got destoryed by someone.
    thnx to Starwoof for the fine avatar

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