Kill6BillionDemons II: The Successor's coming will be followed by 108 burning threads

[Sean Mirrsen]

Well. "Human". As human as an angelic spirit gaining flesh from the blood of a demiurge can be, I suppose.

[-D-]

Well. "Human". As human as an angelic spirit gaining flesh from the blood of a demiurge can be, I suppose.

Blood of demiurge? That wasn't shown. At all.

[Eldan]

I think its quite likely that at this point, White Chain is human for good and bad.
And so i think she would absolutely get smashed if she fought Solomon again.

I'm not sure I'd call her human. Her soul is still white, while human souls are black fire.

[lord_khaine]

I'm not sure I'd call her human. Her soul is still white, while human souls are black fire.

I dont really care about the color of her soul after this.

[Dragonus45]

Blood of demiurge? That wasn't shown. At all.

Sure, but people have been super attached to the idea that her transformation must have been a result of the wish granting tournament powers? Wait those were a thing? When was that ever stated? Yes Solomon gives you whatever you want, but I don't think it was like in the literal a drop of blood casts a wish spell sort of way. Whatever the mechanics are irrelevant. The idea that White Chain through intense soul searing trials declares her identity and reaches a new apotheosis of what it means to be a being of White Fire suddenly has to rely on Solomon for that transformation would be such a massive thematic ****up I would never credit it to Abaddon.

[Sean Mirrsen]

The idea that White Chain through intense soul searing trials declares her identity and reaches a new apotheosis of what it means to be a being of White Fire suddenly has to rely on Solomon for that transformation would be such a massive thematic ****up I would never credit it to Abaddon.

The wish-granting has nothing to do with it. Whatever the path she took to get there, I buy the idea, that an angel spontaneously manifesting a flesh and blood body the same exact moment her spirit makes direct physical contact with Solomon, leaving a mark, and the body she manifests having distinct physical similarities to Solomon's, is all the product of her own will and serendipity with the mark she left on Solomon being purely coincidental, even less than any of the alternatives.

The drop of blood didn't "grant" her the body, as a 'wish'. But it granted her the means and the power to obtain one.

[Dragonus45]

The wish-granting has nothing to do with it. Whatever the path she took to get there, I buy the idea, that an angel spontaneously manifesting a flesh and blood body the same exact moment her spirit makes direct physical contact with Solomon, leaving a mark, and the body she manifests having distinct physical similarities to Solomon's, is all the product of her own will and serendipity with the mark she left on Solomon being purely coincidental, even less than any of the alternatives.

The drop of blood didn't "grant" her the body, as a 'wish'. But it granted her the means and the power to obtain one.

No, leaving aside that there was never even a drop of blood produced to cause this, this was White Chains victory over herself and the wheel. Her moment of victory and apotheosis, to attribute it to anything less then her own person transcendent martial arts bull**** is to diminish the moment. At best I would see an argument about her literally stealing a piece of his godhood and that's about it for allowing him space in her narrative. And the only similarity I see to Solomon is them both being black, which for some reason I already sort of thought as her as anyways.

[BRC]

IIRC, Angels are pure White Flame, contained within their shells, Devils are pure Black Flame, contained by their masks.


So, one of the questions is, did White Chain become human, or is she still an Angel (White Flame), just now clad in flesh instead of ash and stone.

The former is completely unprecedented, and we have no context for how such a thing might occur, so it might as well be Tournament-Fight Wish Magic.

The second would require something creating a body capable of holding White Chain's angelic essence the way her stone shell normally does. It looks like her body was formed out of the crumbling remains of her old one, which doesn't really provide any evidence one way or another.


Now, the mythos as it's been presented doesn't really provide any room for somebody getting a new body or changing their essence by Achieving Self-Actualization alone. We have seen "Red Magic", here https://killsixbilliondemons.com/com...f-swords-4-37/ which Allison used to change air into a peach. And we get the foreshadowy line "All things can change form, wobblebrains, even idiot girls like thee".

According to the fan wiki (Although I havn't been able to track down any actual details from the cited sources), White Chain used "Black Art", which is shapeshifting.

Whether Red or Black art was used, assuming this was all White Chain's doing, she did it to herself, apparently instinctual and unintentionally and without the usual incantation we've come to associate with the Art.

[mystic1110]

Reach Heaven Through Worms.

[Thales]

Okay, but how would anyone in the crowd (or even Gog Agog for that matter) see Solomon David get punched? The final bout with White Chain happened in Ki Rata superspeed. I guess that he didn't catch his bangles like he did with the exploding the people who attacked in the bonus round, but while that might clue people in that something went wrong, they'd still have no idea what. To them, this should look like he flexed, teleported, and the injured angel disappeared — and also some naked lady appeared elsewhere in the arena.

Gog Agog and some more metaphysically sensitive members of the crowd might be able to tell (maybe — Allison, Cio, and apparently Vigilant Gaze all don't seem to have any idea what happened) that the apparent new person is White Chain, but that certainly won't be very many. We, the reader, got a privileged view that it doesn't make sense for the crowd to be reacting to.

[mystic1110]

Slow-Motion Replay?

[Sean Mirrsen]

They saw what was supposed to be the final clash, they saw that Solomon touched his face (and possibly saw the mark), and also they saw that despite the apparent finality of the clash, Solomon still has an opponent in the arena. They know something happened, something that wasn't expected. Even if they didn't see the details, they saw a near-shattered angel suddenly become a human, and saw Solomon touching his face in apparent disbelief. It's enough to come to a conclusion, even if, as Gog-Agog points out, it's a wrong one.

[lord_khaine]

The former is completely unprecedented, and we have no context for how such a thing might occur, so it might as well be Tournament-Fight Wish Magic.

Except there is no such a thing as tournament-fight wish magic.
What there is, is a lot of different ways to undego apothesis, and become something more than you were before.

Though this was definitly not something of the arts.
I think its quite clear this was different. And unique.

They saw what was supposed to be the final clash, they saw that Solomon touched his face (and possibly saw the mark), and also they saw that despite the apparent finality of the clash, Solomon still has an opponent in the arena. They know something happened, something that wasn't expected. Even if they didn't see the details, they saw a near-shattered angel suddenly become a human, and saw Solomon touching his face in apparent disbelief. It's enough to come to a conclusion, even if, as Gog-Agog points out, it's a wrong one.

Yeah alternatively, Gog-Agog would have needed to infiltrate as little as ½ a % of the crowd? 1/10 of a %?
And then just yell stuff like "did you see? she hit him?!?!?!?" to change its mood, and make it spread.

[Anti-Eagle]

Finally got around to reading this comic. I like it.

[mystic1110]

The mob is eternal.

[Rydiro]

Except there is no such a thing as tournament-fight wish magic.

A Demiurge decreed that you get granted a wish should you draw his blood. That decree was held up by a Millenium of bloodshed and sacrifice of soulflames. I think it probable that there actually is tournament wish magic. That or WC got the black art of creation. Or maybe both.

[BRC]

A Demiurge decreed that you get granted a wish should you draw his blood. That decree was held up by a Millenium of bloodshed and sacrifice of soulflames. I think it probable that there actually is tournament wish magic. That or WC got the black art of creation. Or maybe both.

Second is more likely IMO. Demiurges are powerful, but they are not, as far as we can tell, reality warpers who unconsciously reshape the world according to their whims and words. They appear to have the same general toolkit as everybody else, Martial Arts, The Art, ect, just with a considerably bigger "Battery" as it were. They have some unique Tricks, Incubus's shenanigans, Gog-Agog's very nature, but we have yet to see any indication that the Keys directly grant them those abilities. If Demiurges were reality warpers, I think it would have come up by now, especially since Allison has been an untrained keybearer this entire time.

Like, it's possible, but I'd say there's no substantial evidence in favor. It "Might As Well be tournament wish magic" because it's clearly SOMETHING, and we don't have any strong evidence towards any particular explanation as of yet.

[Rydiro]

Second is more likely IMO. Demiurges are powerful, but they are not, as far as we can tell, reality warpers who unconsciously reshape the world according to their whims and words.

Literally the first thing Demiurge Mottom did was turn her husband into a tree, that cemented her fear of him and her fear/staving off of old age. If that isnt unconcious reality warping, I dont know what else should count.

Also, WC could also have used white art (art of altering oneself).

I doubt we get any definitive answer about this miracle from the author.

[lord_khaine]

A Demiurge decreed that you get granted a wish should you draw his blood. That decree was held up by a Millenium of bloodshed and sacrifice of soulflames. I think it probable that there actually is tournament wish magic. That or WC got the black art of creation. Or maybe both.

This theory kinda fails on that she did not in fact draw his blood.
Also it fails to account for that Chain was already changing before she landed a punch.
She got up in the frozen second. And her spirit body had changed as well before she landed the blow.

Literally the first thing Demiurge Mottom did was turn her husband into a tree, that cemented her fear of him and her fear/staving off of old age. If that isnt unconcious reality warping, I dont know what else should count.

Mottom didnt turn her husband into a tree. She slit his throat and burried him in the garden.
He just refused to stay down there.

White Chains apothethis was a miracle. One that indeed does not have any explanation.

[Eldan]

Oh by Aesma, she has sparkles. It's too late, we lost her.

[Rydiro]

Mottom didnt turn her husband into a tree. She slit his throat and burried him in the garden.

Mottom turns people into trees. Her dead husband turned into a tree.
Ergo, Mottom did it.

[lord_khaine]

Mottom turns people into trees. Her dead husband turned into a tree.
Ergo, Mottom did it.

Omg.. what the heck is that for an argument?
Its on the line of "rocks cant fly, you cant fly, your a rock"

[Rydiro]

Omg.. what the heck is that for an argument?
Its on the line of "rocks cant fly, you cant fly, your a rock"

Its an indication. Its a better argument than "a dead person did it".
Mottom even explicitly went into several days of sleep to make that miracle happen. She had the key at that time. So yeah, to sum it up, evidence points to Mottom doing it. Not a dead Hastet, whom we know nothing about.

[lord_khaine]

Its an indication. Its a better argument than "a dead person did it".
Mottom even explicitly went into several days of sleep to make that miracle happen. She had the key at that time. So yeah, to sum it up, evidence points to Mottom doing it. Not a dead Hastet, whom we know nothing about.

except its not an indication. This is a world where an Angel became human though will and defiance.
"a dead person did it" is -absolutely- a valid argument. Miracles are possible. Noone says miracles have to be nice.

So yes, we actually dont have any evidence of Mottom doing it.
We have motivation against it, as Mottom hated the guy enough to kill him. No reason for her to do anything to keep him around.

[Eldan]

I mean, one could argue that the entire plot of this series is "a dead person did it", if we count Zoss.

[D-naras]

Second is more likely IMO. Demiurges are powerful, but they are not, as far as we can tell, reality warpers who unconsciously reshape the world according to their whims and words.

Didn't SD say that he put the sun on Rayuba? I kinda believed him when he said that to Zaid.

[sihnfahl]

Didn't SD say that he put the sun on Rayuba? I kinda believed him when he said that to Zaid.

He did.
Both of them.

[Eldan]

But we can't know if he just willed them into existence, or had them towed from somewhere else, or constructed in a giant hangar, or performed some giant ritual.

[Rydiro]

We have motivation against it, as Mottom hated the guy enough to kill him. No reason for her to do anything to keep him around.

It was explicitly not a conscious decision. Curious though, if she really wanted him dead she could have burned him like allison wanted to. So she did keep him around, obeying him and trying the fruit of an abominable tree. She 100% wanted and DID keep him around.

[sihnfahl]

So she did keep him around, obeying him and trying the fruit of an abominable tree. She 100% wanted and DID keep him around.

It's a perverse tree of life.

The deaths feed the tree. The tree grows the fruit. The fruit keeps her looking young.

And she's afraid.

Of growing old. Of being old.

So she wasn't really 'obeying' him. He was the easiest means of getting what she wanted to maintain ... her vanity.