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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Jul 2013

    Default The Soulless Patron - Necromancer Warlock Subclass based on M:tG's Liliana Vess

    With the upcoming Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica on the horizon, here's the next in my series, a Warlock Patron based on Liliana Vess. Let me know what you think!




    The Soulless

    Expanded Spell List
    The following spells are added to the warlock spell list for you
    Spell Level Spells
    1st Sanctuary, False Life
    2nd Find Steed, Darkvision
    3rd Animate Dead, Speak with Dead
    4th Staggering Smite, Locate Object
    5th Contagion, Antilife Shell

    Terrifying Caress
    Starting At first level, Your attacks and spells score a critical hit on a roll of 18-20 on Frightened creatures.
    In addition, you learn the Cause Fear spell. It doesn't count against your number of spells known.

    Cemetery Recruitment
    Starting at 1st level when you hit an undead creature with a cantrip that requires an attack roll, you may have the target make a Wisdom saving throw instead of being dealt damage. On a failed save, the targeted undead must obey the warlock's verbal commands for the next 24 hours. On a successful save, the targeted undead has advantage on wisdom saves against your spells for the next minute. An undead whose challenge rating is equal to or greater than the warlock's level is immune to this effect, and the warlock can only control as many undead up to half of their proficiency modifier (rounded down).

    Cruel Revival
    Starting at 6th level, when you slay a humanoid, it rises at the start of your next turn as a zombie that follows your verbal orders to the best of its ability. This zombie is permanently under your command until the warlock uses this feature again. Creatures with immunity to necrotic damage are unaffected by this feature.

    Contractual Immortality
    When you reach 10th level, your patron turns back time's impact on your body, restoring your youth by up to 40 years (your choice), so that you suffer none of the frailty of old age. You cannot be magically aged, nor can you die of old age. In addition, if damage reduces you to 0 hit points, make a Constitution saving throw with a DC of 5 + the damage taken, unless the damage is radiant or from a critical hit. On a success, you drop to 1 hit point instead.

    Rise of the Dark Realms
    Starting at 14th level, when you hit an undead creature with a cantrip that requires an attack roll, you may bolster that creature instead of dealing damage. Those creatures gain temporary hit points equal to half your warlock level and a bonus to attack rolls equal to your charisma modifier (minimum of +0). This bonus lasts until the end of your next long rest, and you can't use the feature again until you finish a long rest.




    Notes:
    • This is a bit of a flavor mismatch, as Liliana was already a necromancer who only gained her immortality in a series of brokered pacts with 4 demons, hence the name of the 10th level feature. However, the lack of a decent undead minionmancer made me want to create this subclass. Theoretically, if there are enough undead around, you can control up to 7 undead - 6 (reduced due to feedback) you can control up to 4 undead - 3 with this feature at level 17, and another with the Cruel Revival feature.
    • I've added a bonus spell of Cause Fear and Terrifying Caress as a feature to give the class a feature for non-undead targets, as well as some connection to Oath of Conquest Paladins.
    • Cemetery Recruitment basically turns your Eldritch Blast spell into an undead control spell, based on the Oathbreaker Paladin's Control Undead Channel Divinity. It also allows you to keep control of your zombies created with Animate Dead without using spell slots.
    • Cruel Revival is a longer-length, less powerful version of the Hexblade's Accursed Specter. Note that using the feature again just removes your control of the zombie, not remove the zombie, so you could hang on to that zombie with Cemetery Recruitment.
    • Contractual immortality is an upgraded version of The Undying Patron's level 10 ability, mixed with the Undead Fortitude mechanic. While this is a strong effect, it will slowly becomes less powerful as the amount of damage surpasses anything you'll be able to roll for.
    • Rise of the Dark Realms uses the Same Mechanic as Cemetery Recruitment, allowing you to give up to 3 targets (growing to 4 at level 17 due to Eldritch Blast scaling) the same boost as the RAW Accursed Specter feature.




    This is the third of a series.
    Previous: Oath of the Hieromancer, a paladin subclass based on Gideon Jura & Circle of Awakening, a druid subclass based on Nissa Revane
    Next: The College of Awakening - Telepathic Bard Subclass based on M:tG's Jace Beleren
    Last edited by Vogie; 2019-03-13 at 08:02 AM.
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!

    Friday Night DM for the Natural21s on Twitch on JennyBear, VOD on Youtube


    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: Soulless Patron - Necromancer Warlock Subclass based on M:tG's Liliana Vess

    This one's really hard to balance, due to the fact that armies in 5E are....complicated to get right, but I'll do my best.

    Level 1: This feature does seem a little strong. 2 undead at the cost of a repeatable cantrip with no limit or resource?
    To put another way, you could attack it and deal 1/3 of it's life, and you'll kill it after 3 hits, removing one character from the enemy side.
    OR
    You can make it try a Wisdom saving throw, which has about a 1/2 chance of failing, to remove one character from the enemy side and gain one on your side.

    Not only is it effectively removing undead in almost twice the time that a normal cantrip would, but it's also being twice as good since it then makes that undead an ally rather than just dead. And while you can only keep 2 zombies, there's nothing saying you can't do this forever.

    The other issue is that it's not applicable in many situations. Only the most specific campaigns would be guaranteed to have undead at level 1, which is one of the issues with the current PHB Ranger. In this instance, it just makes you incredibly overpowered in a situation that has low level undead, or have no feature at all. If this was ever applicable, it's because the DM decided to give you a handout.

    I'm not terribly sure how to make it applicable, though.

    Drat, ran out of time for more review, will follow up later.
    Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2018-10-25 at 03:10 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    MOG, design a darn RPG system. Seriously, the amount of ideas Iíve gleaned from your posts has been valuable. Youíre a gem of the community here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post

    5th Edition Homebrewery

    Prestige Options, changing primary attributes to open a world of new multiclassing.
    Adrenaline Surge, fitting Short Rests into combat to fix bosses/Short Rest Classes.
    Pain, using Exhaustion to make tactical martial combatants.
    Fate Sorcery, lucky winner of the 5e D&D Subclass Contest VII!

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: Soulless Patron - Necromancer Warlock Subclass based on M:tG's Liliana Vess

    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    The other issue is that it's not applicable in many situations. Only the most specific campaigns would be guaranteed to have undead at level 1, which is one of the issues with the current PHB Ranger. In this instance, it just makes you incredibly overpowered in a situation that has low level undead, or have no feature at all. If this was ever applicable, it's because the DM decided to give you a handout.
    That's a good point... I've added an additional feature for non-undead campaigns. I've also adjusted the power of the feature by cutting the number of potential Zombies under control in half, and made it much more difficult to just keep hammering on a target with the feature.
    Last edited by Vogie; 2018-10-25 at 01:54 PM.
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!

    Friday Night DM for the Natural21s on Twitch on JennyBear, VOD on Youtube


    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: The Soulless Patron - Necromancer Warlock Subclass based on M:tG's Liliana Vess

    This is pretty neat, but I would limit Terrifying Caress to pact magic slots at the absolute minimum, otherwise you'll have people dipping it in order to recharge high-level full caster spell slots. But honestly, I'd suggest coming up with something else, because as it is, the feature is basically "one extra spell slot than other warlocks" which is... probably too good.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

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    Default Re: The Soulless Patron - Necromancer Warlock Subclass based on M:tG's Liliana Vess

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge View Post
    This is pretty neat, but I would limit Terrifying Caress to pact magic slots at the absolute minimum, otherwise you'll have people dipping it in order to recharge high-level full caster spell slots. But honestly, I'd suggest coming up with something else, because as it is, the feature is basically "one extra spell slot than other warlocks" which is... probably too good.
    I will limit to Pact magic slots - that was the original intention. Nice Catch.

    Not necessarily - you only get the spell slot refresh when in melee (which non-blade warlocks don't do) with a frightened target. The only way to get a creature frightened is by using spells (Fear, Cause Fear), class features (by allies or a 3 level dip into Conquest paladin) or using a magic item like Wand of Fear, Mace of Terror, or Pipes of Haunting. I couldn't find any common magic items that frighten, just uncommon or Rare... which are the same availability as a Rod of the Pact Keeper, which also gives an extra spell slot.
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!

    Friday Night DM for the Natural21s on Twitch on JennyBear, VOD on Youtube


    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

  6. - Top - End - #6
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: The Soulless Patron - Necromancer Warlock Subclass based on M:tG's Liliana Vess

    Quote Originally Posted by Vogie View Post
    I will limit to Pact magic slots - that was the original intention. Nice Catch.

    Not necessarily - you only get the spell slot refresh when in melee (which non-blade warlocks don't do) with a frightened target. The only way to get a creature frightened is by using spells (Fear, Cause Fear), class features (by allies or a 3 level dip into Conquest paladin) or using a magic item like Wand of Fear, Mace of Terror, or Pipes of Haunting. I couldn't find any common magic items that frighten, just uncommon or Rare... which are the same availability as a Rod of the Pact Keeper, which also gives an extra spell slot.
    It's highly unlikely that Terrifying Caress will become relevant, as is. Frightened isn't just a blanket condition, it has a target in mind. Unless you are the source of the fear, nothing else is applicable, and being able to be in melee range of a creature you just feared is extremely unlikely, since Frightened creatures can't move towards you.

    For something like Cause Fear, this means:
    • You have to spend a spell slot for the fear (for an ability that restores a very limited number of missing spell slots).
    • They have to have not moved further to break line of sight or to run away.
    • They cannot make their initial save, and they also had to have failed their second save at the end of their turn (assuming this happens as quickly as 2 rounds).
    • You have to be within range to touch them safely when you reach your second turn.
    • You still have to be maintaining concentration until your second turn.
    • You use your action to deal about 5 damage and regain a spell slot, while being in melee.
    • The creature doesn't murder you the second the fear drops since you're in melee range.



    There's a LOT of things to consider here, and many of them are not ideal to a Warlock.

    I'd honestly recommend going back to the drawing board on that one.

    Hmm...Something that shouts Liliana...

    How about something like:
    When a creature is Frightened of you, you are within 30 feet of it, and you and it can both see and hear each other, you can bend it's weak will with an action. It makes a Wisdom Save. If it fails, the fear effect is suspended and the creature is now Charmed and Friendly towards you. You can command it to take simple actions, and it will comply with your request on its next turn. At the end of each of its turns, or if you or your allies attack it, it makes a Wisdom Saving Throw. If it saves this saving throw, this effect ends and the original fear effect resumes. If the creature is undead or if you are adjacent to the creature, it makes these saving throws with disadvantage.
    You can use this feature once per short rest.

    In addition, your spells and abilities ignore immunity to Fear or Charm when affecting undead.
    Last edited by Man_Over_Game; 2018-10-26 at 10:59 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    MOG, design a darn RPG system. Seriously, the amount of ideas Iíve gleaned from your posts has been valuable. Youíre a gem of the community here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post

    5th Edition Homebrewery

    Prestige Options, changing primary attributes to open a world of new multiclassing.
    Adrenaline Surge, fitting Short Rests into combat to fix bosses/Short Rest Classes.
    Pain, using Exhaustion to make tactical martial combatants.
    Fate Sorcery, lucky winner of the 5e D&D Subclass Contest VII!

  7. - Top - End - #7
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    NinjaGuy

    Join Date
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    Default Re: The Soulless Patron - Necromancer Warlock Subclass based on M:tG's Liliana Vess

    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    It's highly unlikely that Terrifying Caress will become relevant, as is. Frightened isn't just a blanket condition, it has a target in mind. Unless you are the source of the fear, nothing else is applicable, and being able to be in melee range of a creature you just feared is extremely unlikely, since Frightened creatures can't move towards you.

    For something like Cause Fear, this means:
    • You have to spend a spell slot for the fear (for an ability that restores a very limited number of missing spell slots).
    • They have to have not moved further to break line of sight or to run away.
    • They cannot make their initial save, and they also had to have failed their second save at the end of their turn (assuming this happens as quickly as 2 rounds).
    • You have to be within range to touch them safely when you reach your second turn.
    • You still have to be maintaining concentration until your second turn.
    • You use your action to deal about 5 damage and regain a spell slot, while being in melee.
    • The creature doesn't murder you the second the fear drops since you're in melee range.


    There's a LOT of things to consider here, and many of them are not ideal to a Warlock.

    I'd honestly recommend going back to the drawing board on that one.
    That's not a terrible idea. In addition, I need something even more simple than that, because Cemetery Recruitment is already fairly complicated.

    Maybe something like this?
    Always looking for critique of my 5E homebrew!

    Friday Night DM for the Natural21s on Twitch on JennyBear, VOD on Youtube


    Quote Originally Posted by Bjarkmundur View Post
    ... does this stuff just come naturally to you? Do you even have to try anymore xD
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Vogie is the sh**. I don't really have anything to contribute to the topic, just wanted to point that out.

  8. - Top - End - #8
    Firbolg in the Playground
     
    BlueKnightGuy

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    Default Re: The Soulless Patron - Necromancer Warlock Subclass based on M:tG's Liliana Vess

    Not terribly complicated. Nice job on that.
    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    MOG, design a darn RPG system. Seriously, the amount of ideas Iíve gleaned from your posts has been valuable. Youíre a gem of the community here.
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post

    5th Edition Homebrewery

    Prestige Options, changing primary attributes to open a world of new multiclassing.
    Adrenaline Surge, fitting Short Rests into combat to fix bosses/Short Rest Classes.
    Pain, using Exhaustion to make tactical martial combatants.
    Fate Sorcery, lucky winner of the 5e D&D Subclass Contest VII!

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