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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Ogre in the Playground
    Townopolis's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    N. California

    Default [Feats] Yet another go at rebalancing TWF

    We've all heard, seen, and experienced TWF just plain not stacking up. Even rolling TWF and TWD feats into a single trilogy hasn't fixed that. Because of that, and the fact that I want to play Spikey McOrangehair again, have brought forth a quick brainstorming session. These feats are in their first incarnation, and I'm looking for feedback and help developing them into a useable and balanced selection for those wanting to looks cool like Drizzle and not suck.

    Spikey McOrangehair is the character in my avatar, also known as Moranog.

    The Basic Trilogy.

    The base of any TWFer's feat selection is, of course, the TWF line. This line is feat intensive and really gives very little. Every shortcoming that the feat line is added on, but as another feat. So you have to spend a whole new feat just to get a second attack as a standard action. That's 2 feats and you barely equal a featless THW user.

    For the base chain, I basically rolled three mediocre feats into one to try and make a trilogy of good feats to help TWF keep up with THW. I also reduced the Dexterity requirements to reduce the extra MAD TWFing gives melee classes.

    Two-Weapon Fighting (gives the effects of TWF, TWD, and Dual Strike)Requires: BAB +1, Dex 13
    -You get an offhand attack at your highest BAB. You may choose to get this extra attack on any action in which you make an attack with your main weapon, but doing so incurs the two-weapon fighting penalties as shown on the chart. While fighting with two weapons, you get a +1 shield bonus to your AC.

    Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (gives the effects of ITWF, ITWD, and Two-Weapon Rend)
    Requires: BAB +6, Dex 15
    -You get a second offhand attack at your highest BAB -5. You must use a full attack action to get this iterative attack. Additionally, your shield bonus while dual wielding goes up by 1 for a total of +2. Furthermore, in any round in which you hit an enemy with both your mainhand and offhand weapons, you deal an additional 1d6 damage of a type dealt by your mainhand weapon.

    Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (Gives the effects of GTWF, GTWD, and gives pounce)
    Requires: BAB +11, Dex 17
    -You get a third offhand attack at your highest BAB -10. You must use a full attack action to get this iterative attack. Additionally, your shield bonus while dual wielding goes up by another one, for a total of +3. Furthermore, you gain the Pounce ability while fighting with two weapons.

    Support Feats.

    Support feats are not necessary, but grant an extra bonus that can be used to give your TWFer a style of his own, with its own benefits and drawbacks.


    Oversized Two-Weapon Fighting: Not a homebrew feat, just mentioning it as it's one I'd definitely include/allow.

    Paired Weapon Focus (Weapon focus for a set of 2 weapons)
    Requires: BAB +1, TWF
    -Choose 2 weapons which you are proficient in. While wielding both of these weapons simultaneously, you get a +1 to attack rolls made with these weapons.

    Paired Weapon Specialization, Improved Paired Weapon Focus, etc... Same as the regular line

    Main Gauche
    Requires: BAB +1, TWF
    -While fighting with a dagger in your offhand, your penalties for fighting with two weapons are reduced by a further 2, minimum 0/0. Additionally, in any round in which you hit an opponent with your mainhand weapon, all offhand attacks deal an additonal 1d4 damage against that opponent. You must be wielding a dagger in your offhand to get this effect.

    Two-Weapon Empathy
    Requires: BAB +9, TWF, Paired Weapon Focus or Weapon Focus
    -While fighting with two weapons and gaining the benefits of a weapon focus for both, you may choose up to +1 enhancement or equivalent in enchantments found on either weapon. While both weapons are in your hands, they share these enchantments.
    -Special: This feat may be taken up to 3 times, each time, the maximum enhancement bonus of the shared powers goes up by 1.

    Example: Moranog has Two-Weapon Empathy x2 and Paired Weapon Focus: Morningstar+Shortsword. He is wielding a +1 shocking morningstar and a +1 keen flaming shortsword. He chooses the shocking and flaming properties to be shared between his weapons. Each of these properties is equal to a +1 enhancement bonus, so together they are equal to a +2 ehancement bonus, Moranog's limit. So long as he is fighting with both weapons, his morningstar is a +1 shocking flaming morningstar, and his shortsword is a +1 keen shocking flaming shortsword.

    As said before, these feats are still in the early stages of their developement, especially the support feats and GTWF. I'm especially interested to hear what you see as problems or shortcomings, as well as suggestions for fixing or overcoming them. That way I can end up with balanced and useable TWF, instead of the weak little brother it is, or a broken monster of overreaction.

    Thanks in advance.
    Lantanese gnome avatar by the talented Honest Tiefling.

    Don't call it a rework - 5e Ranger optional class features

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ogre in the Playground
    Penguinizer's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: [Feats] Yet another go at rebalancing TWF

    Seems good, but adding Blood Claw master to this kinda is cheesy.

    Bonus rend damage and all. Still, I like.

  3. - Top - End - #3
    Ogre in the Playground
    Join Date
    Dec 2006

    Default Re: [Feats] Yet another go at rebalancing TWF

    I like the variations. I've been working on a similar idea to mix TWF with OversizedTWF and the likes. Looks balanced to me. Not sure about the others feats.

    Member of the Hinjo fan club. Go Hinjo!
    "In Soviet Russia, the Darkness attacks you."
    "Rogues not only have a lot more skill points, but sneak attack is so good it hurts..."

  4. - Top - End - #4
    Dwarf in the Playground
    blue_fenix's Avatar

    Join Date
    Jul 2007

    Default Re: [Feats] Yet another go at rebalancing TWF

    Looks great. I would just edit Main Gauche to allow weapons very similar to dagger to work with it as well, such as kukri. Not sure if that fits your view of the flavor or not, though.
    "Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly; the ill deeds along with the good, and let me be judged accordingly. The rest... is silence."
    -Dinobot, quoting Hamlet.

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  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ettin in the Playground
    Yakk's Avatar

    Join Date
    Nov 2006

    Default Re: [Feats] Yet another go at rebalancing TWF

    Two Weapon Fighting:
    Pick one mainhand and one offhand weapon. When you are wielding both weapons, you gain the following benefits:
    2 point reduction in two-weapon fighting penalties.
    You are considerd to have the Weapon Focus feat with both the weapon (an additional +1 to hit) so long as you wield them together.
    The ability to attack with both weapons in a simple attack.
    The ability to have full iterative attacks with both weapons.

    Two Weapon Defense:
    Grants a +1 shield AC bonus when fighting with two weapons. This bonus increases to +2 when you have +6 BaB, +3 when you have +11 BaB and +4 when you have +16 BaB. You are granted two extra AoOs, one with each weapon.

    Main Gauche:
    Requires: Two Weapon Fighting with a Dagger or other similar weapon in offhand.

    When hit in melee, you may consume an AoO with your offhand Dagger and counterattack against the opponents attack roll. If you beat both your opponents AC and their attack roll, the opponent may either make their attack fail, or be hit by your offhand weapon.

    In addition, whenever you hit with both your mainhand and offhand weapon in a single attack round, you do an extra 1d6 rend damage with your dagger.


    Basically, I see no need to go feat-crazy with two-weapon fighting, and have the player be forced to invest more feats to use TWF effectively at higher levels. Roll them into one feat as the first step: if additional abilities are wanted, then add them onto that feat, or roll them into feats that advance the chain in interesting ways.

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