Jack of All Trades- Cool, or Useless?

[Human Paragon 3]

Jack of All is a seemingly cool feat that gives you "ranks" in everything, allowing you to attempt decipher script, UMD, knowledge skills and all the rest without having to waste skill points (just a feat...).

Cool as it sounds to be good at a little bit of everything, the DCs for those trained only skills are high- so high that it makes me question how useful half a rank would be. Has anyone used this feat? How good or bad is it?

[AtomicKitKat]

I'm guessing it might be useful if you're like a super-high Intelligence Wizard who has better things to spend his Skill-points on, while still being able to tell you just about anything on anything(ie, Knowledge: Whatever).

[Hzurr]

Still, it's nice to be able to try. There's always natural 20s...

And, there are always special circumstances where the DC isn't so impossible. I mean, say there's an int-based "trained only" skill, but you're a wizard and you have a magical item that gives a bonus. Suddenly, you have +10 to a skill, and that DC doesn't seem so impossible.

Now, I realize that I'm stretching here, so honestly, the feat isn't that great. But sometimes, it will randomly play off, and it makes for fun RPing possiblities

[Cronacht]

Never used it myself, but with the proper stats, it could be quite interesting at the very least.

More than a +1 Wis modifier when you're at dying? Substitute Autohypnosis check for the roll to stabilize. Tumble only requires DC 15 for a success; good for moving just out of AoO range if you can't take a 5-foot step or don't want to/can't double-move. You don't need to worry about landing prone on a Jump, and you can Appraise things without a Rogue. Impersonate professions. And of course you're getting occasional utility off lucky Knowledge and Spellcraft rolls.

It's cool, and not useless, but quite hit or miss (less so when working with action points, which give you a small chance to actually hit high DCs)

Really, the most damning strike against it is that when I feel tempted to choose it for flavor reasons, I'm usually playing a skill monkey anyway. <_<

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Be a human, pick up Able Learner, and be a rogue. You've suddenly become a living skill god.

[Dr. Weasel]

I played a Bard for a year and a half with this feat in conjunction with the Bardic Knack ability. It actually was a fairly massive advantage. Being able to have a chance of making every Knowledge check there is (actually I succeeded quite often with 24 intelligence at eigth level), to be able to attempt skills like Disable Device or Handle Animal is a hefty bonus over having to stop and let the Cleric rest to readjust his spells according to whatever problem is at hand.
Of course, if a party has a single dedicated skill-guy (as most do) or even a single utility caster, the feat would be obscelete.

[tsuyoshikentsu]

I played a Bard for a year and a half with this feat in conjunction with the Bardic Knack ability. It actually was a fairly massive advantage. Being able to have a chance of making every Knowledge check there is (actually I succeeded quite often with 24 intelligence at eigth level), to be able to attempt skills like Disable Device or Handle Animal is a hefty bonus over having to stop and let the Cleric rest to readjust his spells according to whatever problem is at hand.

Huh. I hadn't actually thought of using them BOTH before. Nice find.

[Machete]

Great for high int characters who don't plan on investing a lot in more than a couple knowledge skills. Or high wis characters who want to be highly proficient in every profession ever.

Passenger: Are you really a master sailor who is going to navigate us out of this storm?
High Wis Char: I am today.
Passenger: I suppose you been doing this for a while.
High Wis Char: A couple hours anyways.

[AtomicKitKat]

Natural 20/1 are not auto-success/failures for Skills.

[Human Paragon 3]

Where is Bardic Knack located? What does Able Learner do?

[slexlollar89]

Bardic Knack is the Bardic Knowledge variant from Players II, nd Able Learner is a feat in Races of Destiny.

BK lets you add 1/2 your bard level to any skill you have ranks in (or something similar, don't have it open)
AL lets you use 1 point for all skills, even cross class skills.

[slexlollar89]

I did the human skill dude once... he was a human ranger with a warforged companion.

[AslanCross]

Able Learner basically makes all skills class skills for you.

[Dr. Weasel]

Bardic Knack lets you replace ranks in a skill with half of your Bard level so long as you're qualified to use the skill. Jack of All Trades allows you to use all skills. Together you get a sort of all-around pseudocompetence.

[Renx]

I...over having to stop and let the Cleric rest to readjust his spells according to whatever problem is at hand...

Um... Clerics don't renew their spells "after 8 hours of rest", they get it by praying for (about) an hour at a time specified by the God you worship, eg around dawn, dusk, noon, midnight.

[OneWinged4ngel]

Jack of All is a seemingly cool feat that gives you "ranks" in everything, allowing you to attempt decipher script, UMD, knowledge skills and all the rest without having to waste skill points (just a feat...).

Cool as it sounds to be good at a little bit of everything, the DCs for those trained only skills are high- so high that it makes me question how useful half a rank would be. Has anyone used this feat? How good or bad is it?

This feat is completely useless. Get Able Learner instead.

Seriously, spending a feat to be able to fail checks at "trained only" skills? Yeah, it's worthless.

[Kurald Galain]

Whenever I make a character that has at least average skill points, I run into the question of whether I should put points in such skills as tumble, sleight of hand, disable device, and so forth, simply because some weird arbitrary rule prohibits me from trying anything related to those skills unless I have at least one rank in it. I hate having my character options limited away from things an ordinary human could do (and probably fail at, but at least try).

I usually end up not doing that for cross-class skills because it frankly isn't worth it, and any decent DM will let you attempt the task anyway. I consider the "trained only" rule to be poor, arbitrary and redundant.

(edit) Hm, I just realized that putting one skill point in a cross-class skill (netting you half a rank, for no bonus) means it qualifies as trained, and hence allows for rolls on that skill. Cheesy but true, and worth it if you have a decent ability bonus.

[Saph]

It's quite nice for characters like Wizards with high Int scores, because it means you get to do Knowledge and Craft checks untrained.

There are loads and loads of Knowledge and Craft skills, all of which are basically trained only. If you want to be able to use them normally, you have to put 1 rank into every skill you plan to use, which gets old fast. This lets you use them all.

If your character happens to be an elf and you're using Races of the Wild, though, there's a similar but slightly better feat called Elven Dilettante, which is definitely worth taking (as long as you don't mind the name).

It's especially cool with the Fabricate spell. Lets you make anything with a Craft check, in a matter of seconds. Want a customised object of any kind? Poof, there it is. Combs, hair clips, sealing plugs, toys, keys, glass sculptures, knives, empty books, brackets, doorstops, anything you can think of. Not only cool, but very useful if you've got a good imagination.

- Saph

[KIDS]

I have gotten some good use out of it with Bard (who can very well use having 0.5 ranks in all perform skills for a lot of causes) and then merging it with Improvisation spell in Spell Compedium. Having a Disable Device of, say, +0 ranks +3 int +2 MW tool +6 insight can open a lot of traps all by itself. Also, suddenly making a Knowledge (Arithmethics) check or something can also be helpful - depends on your DM. Overall, it's a fun feat, but not terribly useful unless you have things to complement it.

[Merlin the Tuna]

I have gotten some good use out of it with Bard (who can very well use having 0.5 ranks in all perform skills for a lot of causes) and then merging it with Improvisation spell in Spell Compedium.

If that's your grand scheme, CAdv's Versatile Performer is what you want, not Jack of All Trades.

[Telonius]

The feat isn't bad for a fighter. Any full casting class has better things to spend their feats on. Skillmonkey Rogues won't need it. Barbarians, Rangers, and Paladins could probably all find some more important feat. Monks... maybe. But you're already a monk, so you need to invest in as much combat stuff as you can to stay up. So probably not.

Fighters get pretty hosed on the skill points, and they have feats to throw around. A free half-rank in tumble lets them at least try to not get hit with an AoO when they close in. All of the other half-ranks let them move away from their "only ever potentially useful in combat situations" rut. At the minimum, he can try to aid the Rogue on some skill checks.

So, not really useful overall; but not completely sucky for fighters

[AnnShadow]

Be a human, pick up Able Learner, and be a rogue. You've suddenly become a living skill god.

You MUST take it at level 1 and be a human.

Also, it does not make skills class skills. Just makes the cost 1 instead of 2. You are still restricted to half the ranks as a cross-class skill.

I usually take it as my first feat.

I think I will take Jack-of-all-trades, too. Many rolls are a 5 or 10 (knowledge skills come to mind).

[Kurald Galain]

I think I will take Jack-of-all-trades, too. Many rolls are a 5 or 10 (knowledge skills come to mind).

However, that is called "common knowledge", and you're allowed to roll for that even if untrained.

[Curmudgeon]

If you've got good stats but few skill points, Jack of All Trades can be useful. Or you can use a spell like Guidance of the Avatar to get an immediate boost to your skill check, and be golden.

[Dr. Weasel]

Um... Clerics don't renew their spells "after 8 hours of rest", they get it by praying for (about) an hour at a time specified by the God you worship, eg around dawn, dusk, noon, midnight.

It's effectively the same thing. Either way you have to lose all momentum to let a spellcaster prepare.

[kme]

If you have really good ability modifiers it could be useful.

[slexlollar89]

I see the feat as more of a flavor deal, Like I made a (Homebrew) Yugoloth paldin, who was trying to free his god. He had this feat, and used almost every skill on the list. The ida was he was a self sufficiant loner type (obviously he was really NE). He was really fun to play, setting up traps and making alchemy bombs, not to mention craft (poison), with which he would coat his entire body, and armor. He also loved acid, and as a yugoloth was immune... good times with rarely used skills.

[F.H. Zebedee]

Can you use Jack of All Trades with newer skills? (Autohypnosis, Iaijutsu (Sp?), etc.)

If so, it might at least lead to some interesting results.

And as said, it's efficient for the skill-point-meager to use it for their tumble. Even moreso with a good Dex.

I'd say it's a solid, but not staple, feat. It can do some good with certain builds (the Bardic Knack one was another solid suggestion. A bard with all good ability scores? Yes please! Those DCs are nothing when you've got a +10 (Or even +20 around max level, with items and ability scores boosting it.) to them.

[dr.cello]

If I recall correctly, Bardic Knack requires you to have at least 1 rank in a trained-only skill, whereas Jack Of All Trades only treats you as having half a rank in it. In other words, they don't stack.

[Indon]

If I recall correctly, Bardic Knack requires you to have at least 1 rank in a trained-only skill, whereas Jack Of All Trades only treats you as having half a rank in it. In other words, they don't stack.

If Jack of All Trades only gave you 1/2 a rank because it's a cross-class skill, Able Learner should fix that.