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  1. - Top - End - #631
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    Default Re: Things I May No Longer Do While Playing XII: A Thousand-Yard Stare is not Permiss

    Quote Originally Posted by Tohron View Post
    * Our space marines cannot attend a formal dinner in full power armor
    ** No, sticking your medals onto the power armor does not make it OK
    *** Seriously, how are you going to handle the utensils with power armor gloves?
    I'm fairly certain I've read a black library novel in which pretty much this happened XD
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  2. - Top - End - #632
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tohron View Post
    * Our space marines cannot attend a formal dinner in full power armor
    ** No, sticking your medals onto the power armor does not make it OK
    *** Seriously, how are you going to handle the utensils with power armor gloves?
    **** May not requistion Servo Skulls to handle your utensils for you
    Well, Space Marines are canonically capable of surviving on a diet of scrap metal and sand, but on the other hand you did say “formal”, so it’s more about the social implications rather than the food itself I suppose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
    Extended sig here.

  3. - Top - End - #633
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    Default Re: Things I May No Longer Do While Playing XII: A Thousand-Yard Stare is not Permiss

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    * I may not put forward the idea that there are biologically female Space Marines, they just all identify as and present as male.
    As I understand it, it's definitely possible for the opposite to be true [that there are female space marines but all have XY]. But in order for the genophage that modifies the person into a space marine to work, they have to have a Y chromosome. Presumably, it uses the fact that the Y-chromosome is always expressed [whereas, in AFAB people, one X chromosome is actually dormant and one is active] and tiny to add all the other space marine gene stuff to the end of the Y chromosome or something and guarantee that it's expressed while having reduced potential to malfunction due to interactions with also-active matching genes on active chromosomes.

    OTOH, both statments are probably be true in the Emperor's Children.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tohron View Post
    * Our space marines cannot attend a formal dinner in full power armor
    ** No, sticking your medals onto the power armor does not make it OK
    *** Seriously, how are you going to handle the utensils with power armor gloves?
    **** May not requistion Servo Skulls to handle your utensils for you
    You can wear your power armor anywhere you want. Anyone who would object to your power armor also probably can't actually do anything about you wearing power armor.
    Last edited by LordCdrMilitant; 2020-03-15 at 08:13 PM.
    Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!

  4. - Top - End - #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordCdrMilitant View Post
    As I understand it, it's definitely possible for the opposite to be true [that there are female space marines but all have XY]. But in order for the genophage that modifies the person into a space marine to work, they have to have a Y chromosome. Presumably, it uses the fact that the Y-chromosome is always expressed [whereas, in AFAB people, one X chromosome is actually dormant and one is active] and tiny to add all the other space marine gene stuff to the end of the Y chromosome or something and guarantee that it's expressed while having reduced potential to malfunction due to interactions with also-active matching genes on active chromosomes.

    OTOH, both statments are probably be true in the Emperor's Children.
    This is me trying to enjoy 40k while keeping the 'no female space marines' rule, I took the idea that they get heavily modified to say that all secondary sexual characteristics are essentially removed, and that the indoctronisation process is designed so that by the end of their training all space marines will identify as male, with those who don't being disposed of somewhere along their training. To me it's a suitably grimdark explanation that doesn't require me to wrap my head around the idea of MtF people not being female (which I have massive trouble with).

    Your explanation is probably more lore accurate, but to me it's less elegant and more offensive than 'the oppressive government with questionable morals and their not-so-good founder decided to indoctrinate their most powerful warriors to identify as male because sexism'. But YMMV, I just never liked the 'process only works with men' explanation.

    And before anybody even thinks about it, Sisters of Battle are not female equivalents to Space Marines except in the loosest sense, they're not even augmented.

    And to be fair, most Emperor's Children have probably left our ideas of 'sex' and 'gender' behind sometime before they began painting their armour a mixture of hot pink, neon green, and florescant orange.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
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    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  5. - Top - End - #635
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    Default Re: Things I May No Longer Do While Playing XII: A Thousand-Yard Stare is not Permiss

    *My level 2 character should not become a god.
    **especially when he is a species that casually snacks on humanoid races
    ***Nor should the other party members worship him
    ****Particularly when they were already clerics of another faith
    *****and it's an actual, genuine faith with a real, established deity
    ******and they're the species that the L2 character most likes to eat
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    Default Re: Things I May No Longer Do While Playing XII: A Thousand-Yard Stare is not Permiss

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    * I may not put forward the idea that there are biologically female Space Marines, they just all identify as and present as male.
    ** I may not suggest the Dasleahnomicon. Just, you know, ignore the bit about high levels of estrogen making you better at sex, and the bit about being able to breathe through your skin meaning you can suffocate in your armor. Unless there's some additional change to your airways, it really just means you can't be suffocated by a choke hold, and if someone holds ether to your mouth and nose, you can avoid passing out by breathing through your skin instead of your mouth/nose.
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    Default Re: Things I May No Longer Do While Playing XII: A Thousand-Yard Stare is not Permiss

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    And before anybody even thinks about it, Sisters of Battle are not female equivalents to Space Marines except in the loosest sense, they're not even augmented.
    We're much more "Marine" than the Grey Knights or Deathwatch, who are actually ADEPTUS ASTARTES. [Also, until about september, we were appreciably better. Even post supplements, we're still one of the best counter-marines there is thanks to the Order of the Valorous Heart. Don't need no genetic augments here, just blind zealotry!]


    And as far as the other explanation go, I don't really find it objectionable. The requirement that the individual be AMAB because they're working with the stunted Y-chromosome is pretty reasonable to me. Requiring the individuals identify as male is well, sexist and kind of offensive.
    Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!

  8. - Top - End - #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    ** I may not suggest the Dasleahnomicon. Just, you know, ignore the bit about high levels of estrogen making you better at sex, and the bit about being able to breathe through your skin meaning you can suffocate in your armor. Unless there's some additional change to your airways, it really just means you can't be suffocated by a choke hold, and if someone holds ether to your mouth and nose, you can avoid passing out by breathing through your skin instead of your mouth/nose.
    No offense, but I think that link is broken and is trying to install malware on my phone. Got another one?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
    Extended sig here.

  9. - Top - End - #639
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    *May not explain the subtle but detailed plot of Bloodborne while pointing out that it's a setting where the Lovecraftian deities are the ones going through the cosmic horror experience in the face of human evil and that if you 100% the game and get the "true" ending that you're basically the bad guy when someone points to Bloodborne as an example of the plotless Monty-haul guilt-free survival horror feel they're going for with this campaign.
    ** May not give the power gamer a moral existential crisis.
    I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.

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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
    *May not explain the subtle but detailed plot of Bloodborne while pointing out that it's a setting where the Lovecraftian deities are the ones going through the cosmic horror experience in the face of human evil and that if you 100% the game and get the "true" ending that you're basically the bad guy when someone points to Bloodborne as an example of the plotless Monty-haul guilt-free survival horror feel they're going for with this campaign.
    ** May not give the power gamer a moral existential crisis.
    I... would dispute that, but I haven’t actually played. I do know that while yes, much of the reason the situation is so bad is because of human evil, the Lovecraftian beings... aren’t exactly the main victims.

    Spoiler: Reason
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    The Moon Presence is the Great One behind the Hunt, and there is a theory that it pushed the Hunters into killing Kos (some say Kosm). Whether this was a bad thing is up for debate (as is a good chunk of Soulsborne lore in general), but one thing we do almost certainly know is that Mergo is responsible for making things even freakier in the second half or so of the game. Someone in a Discord server I know said Yharnam essentially had 5~6 eldritch apocalypses happening at the same time.
    Cool elan Illithid Slayer by linkele.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squire Doodad View Post
    I could write a lengthy explanation, but honestly just what danielxcutter said.
    Extended sig here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    No offense, but I think that link is broken and is trying to install malware on my phone. Got another one?
    Huh. Works fine for me.

    How about I just post it here?
    Disclaimer: This is an edited version. I removed the "raging hormones teenage boy" bits already mentioned above. I may have fixed a few spelling errors as well. Other than that, all I've done is adjust the formatting so I can post it here.
    Spoiler: ++INDEX ASTARTES: THE WOMEN OF THE ADEPTUS ASTARTES++
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    AdMech/837450/xxx
    Masters, it is indeed with great urgency that I submit this report. It details several matters that could prove what we have always feared: a Space Marine Chapter deviating so much from the genetic integrity of their geneseed as to allow for the creation of beings the likes of which we have always feared would walk the imperium! To allow such a base affront to the Machine God is unforgivable!


    Genetic deviance is common within the Chapters of the Adeptus Astartes. Despite the regular purges performed by the Inquisition and the Cult Mechanicus, the continuing onset of mutation and psychic disturbance within the Imperium has resulted with the very recruits that a Chapter draws upon are inevitably tainted. This, normally, has little effect. But over time, the innate psychic imprint of the Chapter is implanted upon their geneseed, resulting in mutation that often manifests itself to a form similar to the Chapter mythos and beliefs. However, some mutations owe their creation to circumstances more sinister. There have been instances where doomed Chapters have been forced to implant their geneseed within foreign creatures so as to preserve it until it can be retrieved when the current crisis. Some are the result of the worst kind of Techno-Heresy: the direct and deliberate alteration of the genetic material by the Chapter for reasons unknown.

    The reasons for the creation of female Space Marines are largely the sole knowledge of the Chapters themselves- to commit such a crime against the Machine God and the Emperor would require incredible circumstances just to consider it. Indeed, if such an option is considered at all, as the technology required to create such beings is rare and is often locked deep away within the most heavily armored of Forge Worlds. A rare few know that it can be done – fewer still survive to tell the tale. Perhaps the Chapter, so desperately ravaged by war and mutation would seek to create a temporary vessel for their geneseed to grow until such time they can rebuild their strength? Perhaps the Chapter itself was raised upon a great matriarchal world and it was inevitable that females were to be inducted? Or perhaps the reasons are darker still, whether by means accidental or deliberate? The reasons are as varied as the stars themselves.
    Whatever the reason, the fact is that such beings do exist, despite the best attempts of the Cult Mechanicus. They view tampering with the geneseed as a crime most terrible – as, to some extent, it contains a part of the Emperor's genetic material, although to a far lesser extent than the Primarchs. Although not a patriarchal organization, the Cult Mechanicus view the possibility that the geneseed has been tampered with so much that it can be safely and repeatedly used within a female biological system with horror.

    The main problem associated with the use of geneseed within a female system is that fact that the hormone that the genetic material reacts to is testosterone, rather than estrogen. This is primarily because the organs need adequate muscle stimulation to promote growth and development, while estrogen has a less profound impact upon the body's muscular system than testosterone. Combined with the fact that the Emperor himself coded the genetics of the organs with a focus to make his armies on Terra stronger, faster and more aggressive, it makes the prospect of using such organs difficult. Indeed, the direct implantation of normal organs will result in the female body rejecting them, resulting in severe genetic corruption and extensive internal damage (usually resulting in death).
    The original response to this problem was to introduce a series of carefully administered overdoses of several strength-enhancing drugs, along with a regular intake of testosterone supplements. While on the whole this was successful, it was not without its side-effects. Namely, the females that underwent the treatment were often violent and unhinged individuals, as along with their strength increase, an increase of aggression would accompany. Also, since implantation takes place during puberty when hormones are strongest and most numerous, it resulted in female Space Marines with underdeveloped bodies, their chemical therapy leaving them with bodies that are more biologically male than female.

    Another, and perhaps the most preferred method, is the alteration of the organs to increase their efficiency and to work with, rather than against, the estrogen. During puberty, the female body still produces testosterone – just in quantities far less than it produces estrogen. Using complex alteration, the organs are modified to operate with far less testosterone over time than usual. However, although they are far better at using the tiny levels of testosterone present, the process still takes longer than usual, so rather than implantation taking 6-7 years, it is not uncommon for the process to take 10-12 years, and even greater given other considerations. Obviously, the process of puberty is normally well finished at this point, depriving the organs of the hormones that they need, so the levels of estrogen are kept constant for this period. This results in female Space Marines appearing much younger than they actually are, as they are often well into their 20s before the implantation and training process is finished and complete to a level equal to their male counterparts. This process also keeps their bodies chemically identical to ordinary females, not taking into consideration the many other organs that they receive that actually make their bodies far superior than ordinary humans.

    ++Incoming Message.....++
    ++Transmitter - Astropath 9362529856/2551++
    ++Receiver - Astropath 3631763/486a++
    ++Author identified as Inquisitor-General Hael++
    ++Date 475/M.39++
    ++Thought for the Day: The Daemon is the Tool of the Heretic. Martyrdom is the Tool of the Loyalist.++
    ++Displaying.......++
    Masters, it has so transpired that I have witnessed a most unusual sight, and I implore that an Inquisitorial Cell be deployed immediately so as to fully investigate the matter.
    As you are well aware, after several incidents involving unregistered Xenos attack and frequent Chaotic intrusions, I have been assigned as commanding officer of the Ghaool V 122nd Regiment so as to better catalogue and defeat these new threats to the Imperium. My latest observation come under way when we were surveying a dead world believed to be connected to the [CENSORED TO PROTECT THE INNOCENT] when were beset by a large armed force of natives – foul xenos they were, with skin of obsidian and stone, and they came at us as a great horde. With our supporting fleet on the far side of the system (they were forced to remain behind as the great energy outputs produced by their plasma drives would have almost certainly announced our arrival to any sentient beings in-system) I made a command on all channels for any Imperial-friendly vessels to come to our immediate aid (that I could do so with confidence simply furthers the fact that many Rouge Traders are consorting with Xenos most foul. We ourselves were forced to board several vessels and revoke their Free Trade Agreements after proving that they traded with alien races without informing the nearest Imperial authorities) Whilst my loyal troopers lay dying around me, within a few short hours we received supporting fire from low orbit, allowing us to sally out of our makeshift mountain fortress and scatter our foes. I hailed the vessel, and the encryption of the com-link identified the vessel as a Space Marine Strike Cruiser by the name of Exempla Termentia. Although they at first refused my calls for them to make planet fall, they eventually agreed and within the hour a Thunderhawk was dispatched to meet with me and receive the praise of a fellow member of the Emperor's fighting forces.
    As the doors of the Thunderhawk swung open, I was ashamed to admit that my mouth hung agape at the sight before me. The.....Space Marines, if that was what they were, were female. The one that strode forward to meet me came without a helmet, her features instantly recognizable as that of a women, one in her late 30s by my reckoning, although given the ageless qualities of the Adeptus Astartes, it was safe to say that she was perhaps hundreds of years old. She was as tall as a Space Marine-perhaps a little shorter, and her modified Power Armor made her seem just as well built and strong as a normal Marine. Her hair was long and pulled back, and she came unarmed. Without taking her eyes away from me, she stalked up to me a stood directly in front of me, forcing me to crane my neck to maintain eye contact. She bent her head down and spoke but a single phrase - 'And so are we revealed.'
    And they abruptly left. Our supporting fleet was still far off, operating on the lowest power output possible, so I could not pursue, and given that we did not expect orbital attackers, all our Delta-class ordnance was still on-ship.
    Now that I am onboard, I submit this report and request that immediate action take place. The Skittari forces attached to my own have held their own counsels amongst their senior Priests and have not of yet.....'graced' me with an audience.

    Your most humble servant,
    Gallius Hael, Inquisitor-General


    Organs of the Female Space Marines
    While the Cult Mechanicus have yet to receive a full body for inspection, they have at least hypothesized the presence of several organs that would be unique to female Space Marines and their purpose within the female system:

    Phase 1 - Secondary Heart While the presence of this organ is yet to be confirmed, it seems likely that, like their male counterparts, they have an additional heart to better circulate their enhanced blood and to provide a reserve should the first one be damaged in combat. It is thought to be smaller than the usual heart, as the female chest cavity is on average smaller than that of the male, making space a premium. This has led several Magos to surmise that the heart may act as a supplementary heart, rather than an additional heart, acting in support rather than as an independent organ.

    Phase 2 - Ossmodula Believed to have the same purpose as the normal Marine organ. May be slightly less effective.

    Phase 3 - Yisceopa The first of the unique organs, this organ is a direct gene-alteration of the male Biscopea. This organ is implanted at the back of the skull, growing into the brain and to a certain extent the spinal column. This organ is responsible for the prolonging of the puberty stage of the recipient, so as to continue a steady creation of hormones required for other organs that need stimulation to work. As a side effect, this also results in increased fertility within the young female Marines, and thus leads to a heightened sexual awareness. This, of course, has led to many urban myths about scattered temples of followers of Dark Gods giving into their base desires, but this has proved baseless as of yet. Like all Marines, they are not forbidden reproduction, but it is normally discouraged, as the Chapter is fearful of the genetic stability of the offspring. (Note-this phenomenon must also be present with male Chapters, although as of yet they are reluctant to make any references to this point of their initiation)

    Phase 4 - Haemastamen As per standard, this organ synthesizes chemicals to enhance the efficiency of the Marines blood. Combining with the effects of proper training and the output of the Yisceopa, this also helps to stimulate and enhance muscle growth.

    Phase 5 - Kaliia Organ The female equivalent of the Larraman's organ. Instead of providing an efficient clotting agent like normal, this organ promotes rapid skin growth and healing. As such, many female Space Marines have scarring, but it is normally indistinguishable from their normal skin, albeit with a slightly darker tone. This is one of the disadvantages of the organ – it is quite possible for a female Space Marine to bleed to death if the wound is large enough, whereas a normal Marine would simply form a large clot that would heal into a mass of tough scar tissue. Also, as the female mind is far more efficient when dealing with pain than the male, this implant is actually two separate organs that are implanted simultaneously – the first, being the one just described, grafted onto the Primary Heart, while the second is implanted into the brain from the top of the skull. This allows for a female Space Marine, given the right hypno-indoctrination and chemical therapy, to completely shut off the pain receptors of their brains and bodies – although only the most veteran and seasoned of female Space Marines can do this for extended periods of time without fail.

    Phase 6 - Catalepsean Node Believed to be far less efficient than normal, requiring female Space Marines to actually sleep more often than a normal Space Marine requires to.

    Phase 7 - Preomnor As per standard.

    Phase 8 - Emoghopea The female-specific mutation of the Omophagea. Allows for a Marine to 'learn' from the digestion of animal tissue. Has resulted in female Space Marines having a far greater sensitivity to the emotional aspect of this innate learning rather than physical memory (believed to be caused by the influence of the Phase 3 implant, which creates a controlled, prolonged puberty, a time where emotional influence holds most sway over the body) So, by the tasting of an animal, she is able to determine whether the target was confused, frightened, excited, enraged, or any other emotion, up to within 3 days of tasting the material. It is not known whether the same debasement that occurs with the male organ (the various blood-drinking and flesh eating Chapters) is present, but it is assumed that such female Space Marines do exist, albeit acting in a more psychological fashion than their more debased counterparts.

    Phase 9 - Multi-Lung As per standard.

    Phase 10 - Occulobe As per standard, although it is believed that due to the influence of estrogen, a female Space Marine's eyes can distinguish between more colors than a normal Space Marine with more clarity, with a comparable level of night vision capabilities (although it has been suggested that female Space Marines eyes can be more sensitive to bright light, due to the increase in optical cells that allow them to distinguish greater color depth)

    Phase 11 - Lyman's Ear As per standard.

    Phase 12 - Sus-an Membrane No evidence of such an organ can be found within the current post-mortem examinations preformed on the bodies that the Cult Mechanicus have recovered. This is believed to be due to the fact that it is a very complex organ, and with the current proficiency level of mechanical suspended animation technology, has been ruled redundant and not used by the majority of female Space Marines. Also believed to be influenced by the Phase 6 implant.

    Phase 13 - Melanochrome As per standard.

    Phase 14 - Oolitic Kidney As per standard, although less efficient to prevent the Marine bleeding to death unnecessarily (see Phase 5)

    Phase 15 - Neuroglottis As per standard, although it is suggested that this also alters the taste receptors for the Marine on an individual basis.

    Phase 16 - Juucinaroid Female equivalent of the Mucranoid. Due to the influence of the Phase 5 implant, in addition to altering the sweat glands to create a heat-resistant liquid, this also aids in clotting blood by excreting a liquid that aids in blood clotting when exposed to oxygen. Unfortunately, it appears that this organ has mutated from its original purpose, also aiding in the supply of oxygen to the blood by 'absorbing' some of it through the skin. This means that it is very difficult to suffocate a female marine by covering her nose and mouth.

    Phase 17 - Vanek's Gland Instead of providing the saliva of the Marine with an acidic quality, it instead works in conjunction with the Phase 2 implant to greatly strengthen the teeth of the Space Marine. The female can then chew, rather than melt, their way through several materials, although not as effective as a male Space Marine may do so with his Betcher's Glands.

    Phase 18 - Progenoids It is not known what the influence of large amounts of estrogen has on the Progenoids, however it is believed that it serves the same purpose as the male equivalent – it must, unless female Space Marines have developed a method of storing and creating geneseed without biological incubation and subsequent maturation.

    Phase 19 - White Carapace As per standard Black Carapace, suitably altered to take the female figure and internal organ placement into consideration.

    Of course, all the organs above have been altered to operate over an extended period of time with small amounts of testosterone and a far larger influence of estrogen. The Cult Mechanicus are eager to recover a full specimen for examination, as it is quite obvious that female Space Marines are just as strong, fast, tough and efficient as their superhuman male counterparts, and the technology used to create them could be used to greatly enhance existing male organs with proper study and divination. And with all Chapters, it is theorized that some organs would have mutated from their 'Codex' behavior, and some may have been lost altogether.

    AdMech 837450/xxx/Autopsy Report
    Attendant Magos: Senior Magos-Genetor Neroii
    1. Initial visual investigation leaves no doubt to the cause of death-the subject suffered incredible physical trauma that resulted in the loss of 37.8% of the subject body, consistent with the reported method of termination, having being caught in open ground by a mortar barrage. The taint of Chaos has not yet been determined, so at this point the subject is being treated as female, and the appropriate surgical methods will be used.
    2. The chest cavity proved just as tough to open as any member of the Adeptus Astartes, requiring the strength of two of my Servo-Meds. The ribcage itself was fused in much the same way as a normal Adeptus Astartes, although with further testing it was revealed that the bone itself had less overall tensile strength than would be expected, but was still of a level far above that of a normal human. Examination of the organs contained therein have since been removed and placed into storage pending transportation to Mars for investigation by the Collegica Genetoria.
    3. The brain itself proved to be largely intact, the lower torso and limbs having taken the majority of the damage. It proved consistent in size and mass of a normal Adeptus Astartes brain, although there was present a most unusual organ that sat below the apex, whose purpose I could not fathom with the resources available to me now.
    4. The chem-lab has reported back. No sign of viral, bacteriological or toxicological contamination has been detected, and the hormonal patterns have identified the Marine as a female at birth. An excess of estrogen was found, consistent with levels found within young females during puberty. DNA divination has determined that the Marine is within the ages of 30-35, an age comparable to a young Marine, although visual examinations place the subject in her late teens or early 20s at least.
    5. In summary, it is my opinion that we have here a techno-heresy of the worst kind. The debasement of geneseed to such a level so as to make the recipient female the equivalent of a member of the Adeptus Astartes must have utilized technologies either forbidden or forgotten. I shall meet with Inquisitor-General Hael to suggest that we begin our pursuit of our so-called 'saviors' anew and recover the black arts used to create them.

    Magos-Genetor Neroii


    Chapters of Renown
    It is not known exactly how many entirely female Space Marine Chapters exist. If there is any great number of them, then they are keeping aloof and rarely communicating with Imperial organizations. The still respond to requests and Crusades (and other military campaigns) but they rarely make direct contact with the other forces, preferring to fight by themselves or in conjunction with other members of the Adeptus Astartes, male or female (members of the male Adeptus Astartes refuse to be drawn into discussion regarding the subject) so information is hard to come by. They still venerate the Primarch of who their geneseed is based upon, although not as much as normal Chapters (note- remember that most female geneseed is simply a genetically altered version of existing geneseed, having been altered or debased by technology or circumstances. It is believed that the Apothecarion of Chapters with female Space Marines keep in close contact with each other to share resources and research) There are, however, several rumors that travel within the trade routes of the Imperium concerning 'Warrior Women' that can be placed within context with scattered battlefield reports and surveys.
    Platinum Wasps
    The Platinum Wasps are believed to be a largely Codex Chapter, with most reports suggesting that they are derived from Ultramarine stock. The color of their armor is known to be a very light yellow (bordering on white), and true to their name, they have a silver and black wasp as a Chapter symbol. One of the few Chapters that are believed to consist fully of female Marines, it is not known whether this is through choice or circumstance. They have been most recently sighted taking part in the Ullyical Crusade as a frontline attack force, their Companies dropping directly onto enemy frontlines and securing advance bases. Casualties are high, but the full Chapter strength is believed to be in orbit to supplement attacks and provide covering fire. They have, of yet, refused summons by the Crusade's attached Inquisitors, whose requests that they be placed within holding pending investigation have been refused by the Warmaster, who has since been placed under investigation himself. The Wasps have since dug themselves in within the mountainous terrain surrounding the Hive-cities on Tyiooh VII, where extraction would prove difficult, if not impossible. Their fleet has since moved out of orbit and their current whereabouts are unknown but are still believed to be in-system.
    Grey Riders
    Believed to be derived from White Scar geneseed, the Grey Riders are believed to have an equal proportion of female to male Marines. They are not divided into separate Companies as one may expect – like the Imperial Guard, the sex of the soldier is irrelevant, so it is just as likely to find a squad made of 1 female Space Marine and 9 male Marines as it is to find 1 male Space Marine and 9 female Marines in a squad. They possess all the ferocity and ability of their male counterparts, and the male Marines appear to hold no ill-regard towards them. This is believed to be due to the fact that nowhere in the Codex Astartes or the teachings of the Emperor say that it is forbidden for females to become Space Marines – it has simply been, up to this point, biologically impossible. It is also believed that the current Chapter Master is female, with references to the 'Mother Wind' believed to be referring to the name that her Chapter has given to her, highlighting her speed and power, and also a great mark of respect. Current whereabouts are unknown, but given the nature of the White Scar geneseed, it is safe to assume that they are speeding across the plains of some distant battlefield.
    Upsilon Dragoons
    Believed to be a 'Parade Chapter'-that is, one that is created more for show than actual combat purposes. The number of female Marines present are small, and interaction between the different sexes are discouraged. Females are organized into separate squads and into different Companies (although the Chapter can only muster just over a full Company of female Marines) As with all Parade Chapters, their armor is ornate and they have seen little combat duty, being delegated mainly to peacekeeping and ceremonial duties. It is believed that the inception of females into the Chapter came through the political pressure exerted by the matriarchal Houses within the Hive Cities on their homeworld of Upsilon V, as these Houses hold an influence over the resident Chapter that is viewed as unhealthy by the Inquisition, but do not act under the Chapters insistence that they remain an independent military power. The Chapter has so far escaped the attentions of the Inquisition due to the fact that the Chapter itself controls the incredibly precious Adamantium mines that are present on the planet. The Inquisition still maintains a high presence on the planet, but the Chapter will not submit to their wishes for their subterranean Fortress Monastery to be opened for investigation.
    Splinter Eagles
    The Splinter Eagles are the best documented example of inducting females into their ranks because they had no other option. One of the Marine Chapters sent to investigate a new Tyranid Hivefleet approaching from the galactic north, they faced the full fury of the Hive Mind are were forced to retreat, losing 87% of their Chapter strength in the process. However, at the command of the High Lords, the Chapter was forced to remain at the frontline and to divert the threat as much as possible until such a time that enough resources could be found to deal with the threat. As the years went on, the Splinter Eagles began to suffer more and more at the hands of the Tyranids, unable to generate enough recruits from the male population of the surrounding planets, as the conscription forced upon them by the High Lords made it so that every man of able body over the age of 10 was to be sent to the front lines. And so, the Marines began to induct recruits from the remaining female population who had not yet been called to act on the front line. Currently, the Chapter has a total strength of 5 Battle Companies to call on, and their Scout Company is one of the largest in known Marine history (a total of 348 Neophytes at last count, mostly female) The Chapter still suffers daily casualties at the hand of the Tyranid horde, and they are pushing the technology used to create Marines to points that are considered dangerous and with great risks that have not yet emerged.
    Crimson Spiders
    This Chapter is currently listed as MIA after the Inquisition managed to determine the location of their homeworld and sent an Exterminatus Fleet to demand that they agree to submit themselves to the Cult Mechanicus and the Holy Inquisition. Instead, they fought their way out of the blockade and made for warp-space the instant they were clear. An inspection of their planet-based Fortress Monastery has revealed little, as the Armory was detonated and their orbital docks were self-destructed. The planet has been declared Excommunicate Traitoris and is awaiting destruction after the local population rose up against the invading forces. It is also believed that the locals still harbor a small garrison of Crimson Spiders, both male and female, somewhere on the planet, but current interrogation has not revealed their whereabouts. What information that was gleaned from the ruins of their Fortress-Monastery has revealed that they consist of 58.9% Male marines to 41.1% female Marines, and are of Space Wolves geneseed. They excel at infiltration and sabotage, and are especially fierce in combat as benefits their Canis Helix. The mutation of ever-growing canine teeth that is normally present within the Space Wolves Chapter is not in this case (believed to be due to individual mutation and the influence of the female Vanek's Gland), but it has been confirmed that the Marines are heavily tattooed (with spider web like patterns) and use this as the basis for seniority in their Chapter, each Marine being allowed to add to their tattoos for every confirmed kill they make. Their distinctive dark-red Power Armor has since been sighted in orbit around worlds where other Space Wolves descendent Chapters are believed to call their home.
    Ebony Foxes
    The Ebony Foxes are believed to be the Chapter that made contact and came to the aid of Inquisitor-General Hael (his report being shown above) They have flesh-colored Power Armor and are believed to recruit from desert worlds, but for the most part are fleet based. It is not known why they made contact with the Inquisitor, which is an act that they knew would expose them to the Inquisition, but it is believed that it was a pre-meditated act, for they only made contact after they knew that the Inquisitor could not attack their vessels or pursue them. There have been scattered reports of Marines, both male and female, dressed in the Chapter livery of the Ebony Foxes preforming independent investigations on Dead Worlds, but the purpose of this is as of yet unknown. Given what little information there is about them, it is safe to assume that they are a very secretive Chapter, possibly from Dark Angels gene-stock, and so they inevitably have some dark agenda that they refuse to acknowledge. They have only taken part in a few military actions registered by the Imperium, and always arriving silently from orbit and leaving the moment that the conflict is over.

    This is dedicated to all those who have included females within their Space Marine armies-you started it, I simply justified it.
    http://www.geocities.ws/Dasleahnomic...cemarines.html
    (I highly doubt that any arm of the Adeptus Mechanicus has "always feared" there would be female space marines. But whatever. )
    Last edited by Lord Torath; 2020-03-16 at 09:40 AM.
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  12. - Top - End - #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    ** I may not suggest the Dasleahnomicon. Just, you know, ignore the bit about high levels of estrogen making you better at sex, and the bit about being able to breathe through your skin meaning you can suffocate in your armor. Unless there's some additional change to your airways, it really just means you can't be suffocated by a choke hold, and if someone holds ether to your mouth and nose, you can avoid passing out by breathing through your skin instead of your mouth/nose.
    Yeah, I really don't like that, I've never seen why being female would require a whole different set of enhancements.

    Quote Originally Posted by LordCdrMilitant View Post
    We're much more "Marine" than the Grey Knights or Deathwatch, who are actually ADEPTUS ASTARTES. [Also, until about september, we were appreciably better. Even post supplements, we're still one of the best counter-marines there is thanks to the Order of the Valorous Heart. Don't need no genetic augments here, just blind zealotry!]
    It's not that I dislike the Adeptus Soritas, it's that I just don't see them as a counterpart of the Astartes (to me they're more like hyper elite stormtroopers+faith). Heck, I got into 40k back during the days where the Sisters were out of focus in favour of the Imperial Guard (which is, and always will be, their only name, no 'star military' here), so about the end of Forth beginning of Fifth, and left the wargame once the Focus had shifted so far towards Space Marines you got powered armour inside a bigger suit of powered armour and the Sisters of Battle not getting a proper codex when the Blood Angels did.

    Might start up a new army of Guardsmen when I have the space and money, although I'm considering just moving to 15mm minis.

    And as far as the other explanation go, I don't really find it objectionable. The requirement that the individual be AMAB because they're working with the stunted Y-chromosome is pretty reasonable to me. Requiring the individuals identify as male is well, sexist and kind of offensive.
    I mean, I get that, but to me saying 'all Space Marines are male, but some of them identify as women' is saying two statements that cannot be true at the same time. Plus as I said, the idea that they are intentionally indoctrinated to be male because the Emperor was sexist and having this filter down over the succeeding years to me fits with the Grim Dark nature.

    Like, my views on gender mean I feel strongly that somebody who identifies as a woman is female, no matter what their body looks like, how long they've spent living as their gender, or any hormones they are taking. A Space Marine who truly, deeply identified as a woman to me would just not be male (even if they might be 'biologically male).

    Then again, I also don't have space marines appear in games. Not even as PCs. If they're on the same planet they're not at the same bit as the PCs are and they're dealing with a more military threat anyway. If I do need a 'highly trained military' NPC I'll go for either a stormtrooper or a SoB depending on how much I want to play up the religious aspects of the setting. I'm generally working at too low a level for Space Marines to care anyway, with PCs doing the grunt work in dealing with corruption both mundane and Warp-influenced (I very quickly settled on 'Ordo Herectus Acolytes' back in the days of Dark Heresy), or if I ever do run a Rogue Trader or Ascension level game the PC wills be dealing with stuff Space Marines aren't supposed to get involved in.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    * may not point out that Space Marines and Sister of Battle both die just as often anyways despite all the work put into both to make them
    ** or that normal commissars and soldiers are depicted succeeding where they fail or killing their chaos marine counterparts
    *** may not wonder what the point of the super-soldiers are in Warhammer 40k if non-enhanced soldiers can take out the threats without them
    **** If we get female Adeptus Astartes, we must go both ways and get Adeptus Frateritus defying the whole "since Goge Vandire the Ecclesiarchy can't raise men at arms" thing.

    * may not try to get this thread back on track
    ** May not call marvel sentinels "stupid eugenicist tin cans"
    *** May not go on to make a headcanon in character that the marvel government is trying to make an army of mutant nobles loyal to the government to oppress the masses, and use the rambling about it to destroy sentinels with another sentinel
    **** May not wonder if saying my headcanon created a new version of the X-men where my headcanon is true and an existential crisis over it
    ***** May not try to exploit storytelling to create the exact universe I want in character.
    Last edited by Lord Raziere; 2020-03-16 at 10:26 AM.
    I'm also on discord as "raziere".


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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    <SNIP!> I've played in other groups where Fireball was considered the only way to get out of a social situation.
    I went to that prom!

    Sometimes it's fun to play the character who solves all the problems with Moar Fireball!. But, yeah, normally Consequences should be a Thing.

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    *May no longer give feedback after the random encounter that was almost a TPK ends.
    ** Especially not about how after doing the math, the CR was at least 5 above our party's level.
    *** Even more so if that puts it at "beyond epic" levels of struggle in the system we're playing.
    **** "Relax, half of you could damage it and you escaped eventually"
    ***** May not point out that if it was supposed to be a boss encounter, there ought to have been some indication of such, or build up, or general knowledge of threats like that in the area, or something.
    ****** Just because the person that died is cool with it doesn't mean it wasn't a completely off the wall situation that no one could have prepared for.
    ******* How did the ooze even get that close?

    *May not longer threaten to build a Leshy Cleric.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danielxcutter View Post
    I... would dispute that, but I haven’t actually played. I do know that while yes, much of the reason the situation is so bad is because of human evil, the Lovecraftian beings... aren’t exactly the main victims.

    Spoiler: Reason
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    The Moon Presence is the Great One behind the Hunt, and there is a theory that it pushed the Hunters into killing Kos (some say Kosm). Whether this was a bad thing is up for debate (as is a good chunk of Soulsborne lore in general), but one thing we do almost certainly know is that Mergo is responsible for making things even freakier in the second half or so of the game. Someone in a Discord server I know said Yharnam essentially had 5~6 eldritch apocalypses happening at the same time.
    Spoiler
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    The Moon Presence was just trying to clean up the mess, Hunters werren't around until the Scourge of BEasts was well underway and that was specifically the result of the Healing Church doing something that messed up the Yarnam blood. Hunters were the best way to solve the problems. The description for on of he umbilical cords implies that the Hunters are a substitute for a child of the Moon Presense.

    Kos was peaceful and just wanted a child. The "Kos give us eyes" might be an indication that she tried to grant a wish that she didn't understand(examine her corpse and you see she has none) and that caused problems, but all of the problems confirmed to be related to her cause are the esult of humans wanting to study her child and the people altered by her presence. Both of whom were killed.

    Odeon wanted a kid, though the fact that he impregnates women infected by himself(he basically is Yarnum blood, or rather, the Yarnum Blood is the blood of a woman he tried and failed to impregnate) whether they want it or not means he's not exactly good. Not evil, either, but not good.

    Mergo needed to be killed to end the Nightmare, bu Mergo existing int ehform he did was the fault of the Healing Church and Mergo's Wetnurse was just trying to ascend humanity to Godhood one person at a time.

    Ebrietus was trying to slowly acclimate humanity to the idea of the great ones and the cosmic truth of reality so that coexistence could be possible but the Healing Church's choir decided to study her and use her t argument their specific form of blood Ministry to evolve humanity into Kin, as their Church's predecessors did and basically screwed it up.

    The Brain of Mensis isn't malevolent when it attacks you, it's doesn't seem to have a choice, and when you Make contact with it after freeing it from it's chains it gives you a magic rune--which is how the Great Ones communicate--that greatly improves the reward you get from killing things. Considering how sad it looks and the fact that it just lays there, one gets the feeling that it's begging you to kill it and put i out of its misery. BEcuase the implication is that it was just off on it's own until it got captured and experimented on.

    Rom was originally a human who was turned into a Great One Artificially by experiments with various forms of blood and insight att he cost of completely destroying her mind (Vacuous is referring to this state of mindlessness. The Japanese version calls her retarded.) Even then, it's implied that she's instinctively holding back the worst of the madness: Everything goes to Hell when you kill her.

    And the Orphan of Kos is basically the vengeful ghost of a child whose mother was murdered as it was born so that it could be taken and studied until it too died, creating a nightmare realm and dragging into it the souls of everyone responsible for or benefiting from it's mother's murder and forcing them to confront their sins and those of their predecessors.

    Only the AMygdala seem to be actively attacking humans without provocation, but as far as I can tell only the specific one that you can encounter as an optional boss is confirmed to be malevolent.
    I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.

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    Meteor
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    Way down the air
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    It's not that I dislike the Adeptus Soritas, it's that I just don't see them as a counterpart of the Astartes (to me they're more like hyper elite stormtroopers+faith). Heck, I got into 40k back during the days where the Sisters were out of focus in favour of the Imperial Guard (which is, and always will be, their only name, no 'star military' here), so about the end of Forth beginning of Fifth, and left the wargame once the Focus had shifted so far towards Space Marines you got powered armour inside a bigger suit of powered armour and the Sisters of Battle not getting a proper codex when the Blood Angels did.

    Might start up a new army of Guardsmen when I have the space and money, although I'm considering just moving to 15mm minis.
    I joke that it takes 19-22 extra organs just to make up for having a stunty half-size chromosome ;). Especially when I win.

    I definitely see SoB as a marine-like army, though were at the far edge of that. As I said, we're "marineier" than GK or Deathwatch, which are actually marines.

    The Codex: Space Marines, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, and Blood Angels are "Space Marine armies". They all basically share the same unit pool and core functionality and capability, with a few special units and upgrades each. Grey Hunters, Tacticals, all the same basically.

    Grey Knights and Deathwatch are technically ADEPTUS ASTARTES, but aren't "Space Marine armies", because their units are completely different and function is completely different. GK have terminator troops and Strikes all have force weapons, and no heavy weapons are shared in common. Likewise, a Deathwatch Kill Team is also nothing like a Tactical Squad, it's got special weapons for everybody, all kinds of loadouts, mixed unit types, etc. In addition, their playstyles are completely different from the Space Marine codecies. BA being "different" from Codex Marines is basically just a matter of leaning on their special units. In playstyle, you can have functionally identical Space Wolves, Blood Angels, Dark Angels, and Codex: Marines armies. I play SW as a bunch of Long Fangs and Grey Hunters and Primaris troops, and could easily just say "well, I'm Iron Hands today" and change nothing about my army. Grey Knights, on the other hand, are all on the drop, extreme low model count, and universally heavy-medium melee and play very differently. Similar for Deathwatch.

    I consider Sisters of Battle to actually be sharing space with GK and Deathwatch both lore wise and mechanically as "Inquisition Armies" or "Marines but not Marines". We're the closest to Space Marines out of the three in terms of rules [sharing unit types, functions, and loadouts], but we're also just different enough to have our own identity on the tabletop [mostly due to lack of 48"+range more than being T3. The T3 isn't really significant]. Primaris Marines have really made that distinction more defined.


    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    Then again, I also don't have space marines appear in games. Not even as PCs. If they're on the same planet they're not at the same bit as the PCs are and they're dealing with a more military threat anyway. If I do need a 'highly trained military' NPC I'll go for either a stormtrooper or a SoB depending on how much I want to play up the religious aspects of the setting. I'm generally working at too low a level for Space Marines to care anyway, with PCs doing the grunt work in dealing with corruption both mundane and Warp-influenced (I very quickly settled on 'Ordo Herectus Acolytes' back in the days of Dark Heresy), or if I ever do run a Rogue Trader or Ascension level game the PC wills be dealing with stuff Space Marines aren't supposed to get involved in.
    I've run Deathwatch a couple of times, and I've got Space Marines in my W&G party, and I've got a Space Wolves army. [I've also got a IG, SoB, GK, and Talons army] I don't really have a problem with them.
    Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!

  18. - Top - End - #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by LordCdrMilitant View Post
    The Codex: Space Marines, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, and Blood Angels are "Space Marine armies". They all basically share the same unit pool and core functionality and capability, with a few special units and upgrades each. Grey Hunters, Tacticals, all the same basically.
    I never really found Chaos Space Marines to be that different back in the day. Different specifics bolted onto the same core.

    I've run Deathwatch a couple of times, and I've got Space Marines in my W&G party, and I've got a Space Wolves army. [I've also got a IG, SoB, GK, and Talons army] I don't really have a problem with them.
    I'm just not a big fan of them, possibly because my first experience of Deathwatch included us being denied the ability to a) plan, b) scout, c) check orbital scans, or d) sneak in through the back door before commencing the blazing guns*. Always like Dark Heresy more, maybe it's because the PCs are going to spend their first few sessions in way over their head ad underequipped, it encourages solutions other than 'set it on fire'.

    Mainly 'let's raid the local Imperial Guard base for equipment', but players learn slowly.

    * Space Marines are not stupid, and I realised right away that walking into this place through the front door should have resulted in a melta shot to the helmet, at the very least once we reached the supposed underground tunnels. I wanted to gather information from orbit, fly down to the nearest city still recieving ships, do a forced march to the complex, find the tradesman's entrance, find the underground tunnel undetected if possible, then loudly annouce that the Adeptus Astartes are here and go in guns blazing. Instead the Inquisition apparently bundled us into a drop pod without letting us see the building plan and couldn't even get us through the roof, we had to march in the front door while they were setting off the alarm. He had a really bad reaction to the word 'scout', as well as 'melta gun' and 'I paid XP to add it to my Wargear'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rater202 View Post
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    The Moon Presence was just trying to clean up the mess, Hunters werren't around until the Scourge of BEasts was well underway and that was specifically the result of the Healing Church doing something that messed up the Yarnam blood. Hunters were the best way to solve the problems. The description for on of he umbilical cords implies that the Hunters are a substitute for a child of the Moon Presense.

    Kos was peaceful and just wanted a child. The "Kos give us eyes" might be an indication that she tried to grant a wish that she didn't understand(examine her corpse and you see she has none) and that caused problems, but all of the problems confirmed to be related to her cause are the esult of humans wanting to study her child and the people altered by her presence. Both of whom were killed.

    Odeon wanted a kid, though the fact that he impregnates women infected by himself(he basically is Yarnum blood, or rather, the Yarnum Blood is the blood of a woman he tried and failed to impregnate) whether they want it or not means he's not exactly good. Not evil, either, but not good.

    Mergo needed to be killed to end the Nightmare, bu Mergo existing int ehform he did was the fault of the Healing Church and Mergo's Wetnurse was just trying to ascend humanity to Godhood one person at a time.

    Ebrietus was trying to slowly acclimate humanity to the idea of the great ones and the cosmic truth of reality so that coexistence could be possible but the Healing Church's choir decided to study her and use her t argument their specific form of blood Ministry to evolve humanity into Kin, as their Church's predecessors did and basically screwed it up.

    The Brain of Mensis isn't malevolent when it attacks you, it's doesn't seem to have a choice, and when you Make contact with it after freeing it from it's chains it gives you a magic rune--which is how the Great Ones communicate--that greatly improves the reward you get from killing things. Considering how sad it looks and the fact that it just lays there, one gets the feeling that it's begging you to kill it and put i out of its misery. BEcuase the implication is that it was just off on it's own until it got captured and experimented on.

    Rom was originally a human who was turned into a Great One Artificially by experiments with various forms of blood and insight att he cost of completely destroying her mind (Vacuous is referring to this state of mindlessness. The Japanese version calls her retarded.) Even then, it's implied that she's instinctively holding back the worst of the madness: Everything goes to Hell when you kill her.

    And the Orphan of Kos is basically the vengeful ghost of a child whose mother was murdered as it was born so that it could be taken and studied until it too died, creating a nightmare realm and dragging into it the souls of everyone responsible for or benefiting from it's mother's murder and forcing them to confront their sins and those of their predecessors.

    Only the AMygdala seem to be actively attacking humans without provocation, but as far as I can tell only the specific one that you can encounter as an optional boss is confirmed to be malevolent.
    Short version: just because the vast majority of messed up things in Yharnam were the result of humans messing with things on the other side of the cosmic fence does not mean the Lovecraftian horrors were entirely innocent. Of course, the reverse is also true.

    Also:

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    I’m pretty sure the Moon Presence IS Oedon, just saying. Not that really influences anyone’s point, though.
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  20. - Top - End - #650
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    Default Re: Things I May No Longer Do While Playing XII: A Thousand-Yard Stare is not Permiss

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    I never really found Chaos Space Marines to be that different back in the day. Different specifics bolted onto the same core.
    CSM are also a marine army, yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    I'm just not a big fan of them, possibly because my first experience of Deathwatch included us being denied the ability to a) plan, b) scout, c) check orbital scans, or d) sneak in through the back door before commencing the blazing guns*. Always like Dark Heresy more, maybe it's because the PCs are going to spend their first few sessions in way over their head ad underequipped, it encourages solutions other than 'set it on fire'.

    Mainly 'let's raid the local Imperial Guard base for equipment', but players learn slowly.

    * Space Marines are not stupid, and I realised right away that walking into this place through the front door should have resulted in a melta shot to the helmet, at the very least once we reached the supposed underground tunnels. I wanted to gather information from orbit, fly down to the nearest city still recieving ships, do a forced march to the complex, find the tradesman's entrance, find the underground tunnel undetected if possible, then loudly annouce that the Adeptus Astartes are here and go in guns blazing. Instead the Inquisition apparently bundled us into a drop pod without letting us see the building plan and couldn't even get us through the roof, we had to march in the front door while they were setting off the alarm. He had a really bad reaction to the word 'scout', as well as 'melta gun' and 'I paid XP to add it to my Wargear'.
    Speaking of being in over their head, one of the things I have found that I really like about Wrath and Glory compared to the FFG40k RPG's is that the party doesn't start as incompetent at everything, and are at least what is expected of a baseline unit of their faction.

    A character in the deathwatch or taken as an acolyte is a veteran of their organization, but at character generation in DH & DW, you'd be lucky to be as competent as a basic trooper. The most egregious case is the Sister of Battle class in 2e, who starts as some kind of initiate, not even a base 9 point BSS.

    I think it's really nice that the classes are literally the codex troop entries in W&G, so it's very easy to start as at least a competent private and develop from there.
    Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!

  21. - Top - End - #651
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anonymouswizard View Post
    I'm just not a big fan of them, possibly because my first experience of Deathwatch included us being denied the ability to a) plan, b) scout, c) check orbital scans, or d) sneak in through the back door before commencing the blazing guns*. Always like Dark Heresy more, maybe it's because the PCs are going to spend their first few sessions in way over their head ad underequipped, it encourages solutions other than 'set it on fire'.
    I feel for you, but that's just an obnoxious GM. My GM gets us orbital maps, details of the relevant hive sections (if not of all the buildings making up that section), and likely enemy strengths. And while we don't always get to choose our insertion points (we usually do), we always get some time to plan before climbing in the thunderhawk/droppod/boarding torpeedo. For us it usually goes mission briefing - planning session - requisition - deployment. And ever since I read the Universal Brotherhood file (Shadowrun), if they are available, my characters always bring recording devices.
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  22. - Top - End - #652
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    Default Re: Things I May No Longer Do While Playing XII: A Thousand-Yard Stare is not Permiss

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Torath View Post
    I feel for you, but that's just an obnoxious GM. My GM gets us orbital maps, details of the relevant hive sections (if not of all the buildings making up that section), and likely enemy strengths. And while we don't always get to choose our insertion points (we usually do), we always get some time to plan before climbing in the thunderhawk/droppod/boarding torpeedo. For us it usually goes mission briefing - planning session - requisition - deployment. And ever since I read the Universal Brotherhood file (Shadowrun), if they are available, my characters always bring recording devices.
    That's usually how I set it up.
    First, at the beginning of the session, the Watch Master assigns them their mission. I often let them pick their mission from two or three.
    Then they attend the briefing with the Inquisitor Lord whose field agents have gathered intelligence and prepared dossiers and objectives so they're not dropping in blind. Usually there's some complications that they don't know about or don't have precise details on that will force the party to adapt on the mission. Sometimes, the situation is "our agents found something but weren't able to send us the details, meet up with them/find the dead drop to learn what they know," and that's when the party knows that **** really hit the fan.
    Then they go to the master of the forge, and pick out their gear for the mission. This is by far the longest step, since this is also when the party plans how to approach it. They're also always afforded one 1 module for their Corvus Blackstar, and usually afforded one vehicle from the motor pool to take with if they need it.
    Finally, they board their frigate that will take them to the mission and it begins [and begins to go wrong. These are PC's after all.]
    Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!

  23. - Top - End - #653
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    Default Re: Things I May No Longer Do While Playing XII: A Thousand-Yard Stare is not Permiss

    * If the DM is clearly trying to run a horror/suspense game in which we have no outside support, my character's first priority should not be obtaining outside support
    ** Creating an entire secret government agency to support us is right out

    * Just because the game is set "in the real world" doesn't mean that my character can buy anything I can find advertised online cheap
    ** It's my own fault that I now get ads for 1-pentyl-isocyanide all over the internet
    *** Any government watch lists I got added to are also my own fault

    * "I don't know about that danger in-character" is not a good reason to lead the party into a TPK
    ** Nor is "I'm not very attached to this character yet"

    * If my original character concept was "Especially Fascist Cop", I should not be the party conscience.

  24. - Top - End - #654
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    Default Re: Things I May No Longer Do While Playing XII: A Thousand-Yard Stare is not Permiss

    *May not interrupt gameplay in order to make an impassioned argument that Darth Imperius was the only true Sith and an ideal to aspire to.
    ** May not openly idealize Sith Lords when I'm playing a Sith.
    ***Even ones who are better people than most of the Jedi who were around in their time.
    I also answer to Bookmark and Shadow Claw.

    Read my fanfiction here. Homebrew Material Here Rater Reads the Hobbit and Dracula
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    Spoiler: Ode To Meteors, By zimmerwald
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    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    Meteor
    You are a meteor
    Falling star
    You soar your
    Way down the air
    To the floor
    Where my other
    Rocks
    Are.

  25. - Top - End - #655
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Things I May No Longer Do While Playing XII: A Thousand-Yard Stare is not Permiss

    *In a cinematic espionage game with a serious tone, my character may not hire a mariachi band to follow him around playing the James Bond theme.
    **My character’s backstory may not be a spoof of anything in the Metal Gear Solid series.
    ***At no point in his life was my character a rejected Cobra Unit operative called “The Depraved Indifference To Human Life.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by Safety Sword View Post
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    - If it's something mortals were not meant to know, I've already found six different ways to blow myself and/or someone else up with it.
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  26. - Top - End - #656
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    BarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Things I May No Longer Do While Playing XII: A Thousand-Yard Stare is not Permiss

    * I am no longer allowed to use my knowledge of a player's IRL sexual preferences to make an NPC to seduce his character.
    **I may have gone to far
    The first rule of gaming, before you have even chosen the game is and always should be

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  27. - Top - End - #657
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    Default Re: Things I May No Longer Do While Playing XII: A Thousand-Yard Stare is not Permiss

    Quote Originally Posted by braveheart View Post
    * I am no longer allowed to use my knowledge of a player's IRL sexual preferences to make an NPC to seduce his character.
    **I may have gone to far
    * My PC may no longer be designed sheer my ideal partner.
    ** The GM doesn't care if everybody does it sometimes, they don't want me to be playing a caricature of them.
    *** If I have a crush on the GM, or any other player, I am to leave it by the door when playing the game.

    Not actually all happened together yet, but the individual parts have and I've moved past the likelihood of it all happening together. Mostly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelphas View Post
    So here I am, trapped in my laboratory, trying to create a Mechabeast that's powerful enough to take down the howling horde outside my door, but also won't join them once it realizes what I've done...twentieth time's the charm, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Raziere View Post
    How about a Jovian Uplift stuck in a Case morph? it makes so little sense.

  28. - Top - End - #658
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    Default Re: Things I May No Longer Do While Playing XII: A Thousand-Yard Stare is not Permiss

    Quote Originally Posted by braveheart View Post
    * I am no longer allowed to use my knowledge of a player's IRL sexual preferences to make an NPC to seduce his character.
    ** Just because the character was (literally) a bear does not automatically make him gay
    *** Just because the seduction rules don't mention sexual orientation doesn't mean the entire setting is bi

  29. - Top - End - #659
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    Goblin

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    Default Re: Things I May No Longer Do While Playing XII: A Thousand-Yard Stare is not Permiss

    * I cannot curse out the king of the Gnomes in Halfling because I'm in a bad mood, no matter how controlled I keep my facial expressions and body language.
    ** I must remember that the roll determining whether the King understood me was a fluke, and cannot/should not be counted on again.
    *** I cannot ask a party member to cover for my sudden speech in Halfling by telling the king it was an ancient greeting for royalty.

    * I'm not allowed to call the warlock with anger issues an idiot to his face.
    ** I'm not allowed to follow up with an insult about his mother.
    *** I'm not allowed to purposefully heal the party member on the opposite side of the combat zone from the warlock out of spite.
    **** I'm not allowed to join the warlock's crime syndicate and immediately start a civil war.
    ***** I'm not allowed to be embarrassed IC by the name of the crime syndicate if OOC I approved the name.

    * If the rest of the party is made up of chaotic stupid characters, I can't assume that we'll have a full healer when I make my character.
    ** If my character only has three spell slots, I shouldn't spend two on the same person if other people need healing.
    *** I can't cast Hail of Thorns when a character on low HP is in the effect zone, even if I'm unaligned with the person in question at the time.
    **** Attempting to justify putting another player on death saves by saying "Chill out, I'll heal you, it's not a big deal" is not tactful and should not be done under any circumstances.

    * If the Fighter hoists my Tiefling into the air like it's nothing, I'm not allowed to use a reaction to punch him in the face with her tail.
    ** Or headbutt him when he lets me down.
    *** Or do any of this in a plot-relevant area we could get kicked out of if we have a brawl in the entrance.
    Quotes from my adventuring party:
    "They're not really innards anymore. They're out-ards."
    "Your lower back burns from the death glare of a dwarf."
    "What's Thor gonna do, zap me?"
    "Is it drugs?"
    "I set my weapons on the ground." "Do you set your brain down, too?"

  30. - Top - End - #660
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    Default Re: Things I May No Longer Do While Playing XII: A Thousand-Yard Stare is not Permiss

    *The GM may not make the players fight Tucker's Kobolds
    **The party may not be Tucker's Kobolds
    ***These two things can especially not happen at the same time
    ****If one group of kobolds defeats he other they will not be "tuckered out"
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