Questions about Gods (Must they be crazy?)

[Umarth]

Just wanted to get peoples feelings about Gods when they homebrew so here are a few questions:

1) Are the gods real?

2) Are the gods seen identically across all cultures? So Thor "The Hammer" Godster is worshiped identically from the frozen deserts of the north to the rain soaked islands of the south?

4) Do you have a single pantheon of gods or multiple independent pantheons? Why?

3) What affect do you think it would have on cultures if they all shared identical understandings of the gods? Imagine a Chinese boat landing on the western coast of South America (circa 1400ish) and finding the Inca worshiping the same gods worshipped across the sea.

4) How would it affect churches if worshipers had solid and concrete evidence of the gods rather than relying on faith?

5) How would your world react to finding an empty coke bottle?

[EvilElitest]

Hate to seem bossy, but shouldn't this be in gaming?
from,
EE

[psychoticbarber]

Hate to seem bossy, but shouldn't this be in gaming?
from,
EE

Well, he's asking bout "when we homebrew".

Personally, my interaction with the Gods is very different depending on what world I'm creating. I always look at theme first, but I do a fair bit of writing.

[Edea]

The current campaign world I'm using doesn't have any real gods in it, but there are plenty of separate and conflicting religious belief systems. There are also no Clerics or Favored Souls (the main externalist, or 'divine spellcaster,' of this world is similar to the Mystic from Dragonlance, but different enough that it is still a unique class...and not in violation of OGL, lol).

So, to answer these questions (at least for me atm):

1) No.

2) Definitely not, two different opinions about a God or Goddess can be found within 30 meters of each other, much less across countries.

3) Multiple independant pantheons, since they are entirely the creation of dissimilar mortal beings, desperately clinging to the idea of their existence having meaning.

4) That would be extremely scary.

5) It wouldn't be a religion anymore. Mechanically speaking, there is magic in my campaign setting, but it's not called that (it's a set of sub-fields within classical physics, mainly called 'probology' and 'probometry' (literally, 'the study of/measurement of projection,' and this 'projection' concept is an integral component to the ideas of the campaign world). There is also 'quantum probology,' but it's a very novel idea atm).

6) Probably'd think it's very ancient, seeing as how it uses organic polymerization products in its construction. The label doesn't even project what whatever was inside tastes like :/.

EDIT: I must admit most of my homebrews are not theocentric in the least, many of them simply eliminate gods altogether (though this does not preclude the existence of extremely powerful beings).

[NecroRebel]

Really, it varies drastically depending on the style and type of deities that do or do not exist in a given campaign world.

A world with no deities, or with deities that are largely to totally inactive in the mortal realm, will probably develop radically different ideas of "God" across different cultures, and even moreso across species. Of course, people might still find it odd if they encountered another culture with alien religious beliefs, and might go to war over such things, just as has happened in the real world.

A world with a single all-powerful deity who interacts regularly with mortals will probably be worshipped more-or-less equally across all cultures; most differences in HOW it's worshipped would be cultural (though still might be radically different). Unless the deity was a liar to one or more cultures, it would likely be portrayed in much the same manner all around the world as well.

A world with one and only one pantheon of several individual deities would be similar to the monodeific world, except with the added caveat of different cultures choosing to emphasize one deity over another. This would again be merely cultural, though; the Orc-equivalent race who is highly warlike and violent will favor the War God over the Art God, for example.

A world with multiple pantheons of several individual deities each, or with multiple monodeific religions, would be more like the nondeific world in that there would be peoples with drastically different religions in different places and worshipping in drastically different ways, except this time the religions would be backed up by real deities that may choose to step in on any disputes. Harder to judge how this one works since it varies depending on how many pantheons there are, how many gods are in each pantheon, how widely-known each pantheon is, etc.

To answer your questions:
1) Maybe.

2) Maybe.

3) Yes, because they serve different purposes depending on which is done.

4) Cultures with the same understandings on gods would likely be more likely to interact peacefully. Priests or other holy men would be able to act as arbiters of conflict and the whole "religious war" thing wouldn't really occur so much. In this case, it would be better to use medieval Japan as a political model; every province or state has the same basic worldview, so conflicts are primarily over resources rather than ideals.

5) In a medieval setting, not much. There would be fewer philosophers or scholars who argued against the existence of gods than in the real world (though even here they didn't appear until relatively recently), and there wouldn't really be atheists as such (except for those who couldn't actually reconcile anyone's existence besides perhaps their own), but there's nothing really stopping someone from simply choosing not to worship a god in most settings (unless the gods themselves smite those who don't bow to them).

6) In a world where magic is a real and/or accepted force, I'd probably assume it was a magically- or miraculously-created item (which, in the film The Gods Must be Crazy to which you refer, it might as well have been for the bushmen). If magic is not a real and/or accepted force, I'd assume that it was either naturally-occuring somehow or that a person had made it. In either case, if it was useful and did not seem dangerous, I would use it for whatever useful purpose it possessed.

[Eighth_Seraph]

1) In my worlds; ooh yes. My friends and players love the cleric cheese, and I can't in good conscience accept that a cleric could have powers without a real source other than an abstract idea in his own head.

2) Hrm. That depends on what you're talking about. In a recent and unfinished campaign world of mine, code-named Pseudelity until I can think of something better, the only two gods are the Sun and Moon. The northern Inuit-like folks love the sun when she's up because it's utterly miserable when she's gone for four months; but the desert-dwellers in the central highlands put up with her because she's far too strong for any sane person to oppose.

4) A single pantheon. I like to keep the idea that the gods are real, powerful beings whose powers and reasoning are worth something, not specialists into one thing that can't see beyond their portfolios. But that's just me.

3) I think it makes things very interesting for worshipers across the world to have similar, though not same, understanding of the gods across the land. It keeps a sense of unity that shows "No matter where you go, there you are." I like to keep the theme that people are people no matter where you go, so a fundamental similarity like worship ties things up rather nicely. Of course, removing that tie will make things equally interesting in reciprocal fashion. After all, how could these heathens that don't even understand who our God is even be human? History makes the best stories.

4) In my experience it leads to "religion", if it can even be called that when the gods are indisputably real, being a much more fundamental part of people's lives. They now know that they're still alive because the rain spirit smiled upon them and will pay it back as such, knowing that it's as much a sentient being as them, or even more so.

5) Heh; my anthropology teacher won't stop talking about that film, even though he hasn't even shown it to us yet. Depending on which culture it came from, the bottle would be immediately destroyed as an evil omen, used as a thrown weapon due to its handy weight, or adapted to one or various tools, since a clear and sturdy material is all but unheard of in Pseudelity.

I like this thread, it makes me think. Well done, sir.

[Zeal]

1) Yes, very much so.

2) Yes and no, they are worshiping the god in various aspects (eg. Greed the Hunter or Greed the Thief) and they may have different names depending on the aspect, but essentially it is the same god.

4) Single pantheon, mostly for simplicities sake...heck my setting only has nine gods.

3) Little to none. The people of the world accept that everyone worships the same gods. The cosmology would be in an uproar though, every underling suddenly turning to their deities to ask: "Why didn't we know about this other group of people."

4)Again, very little affect on the people, the gods are very active in the lives of the people and if they want to see their deity, they just have to make the right gate and walk through...it might end badly for them, but the possibility is still there.

5)Umm...try and hock it to the next merchant? Honestly, I think they'd just assume it was magical or alchemical.

[Sintanan]

1) Are the gods real?
- Yes. There are many gods in my setting set up in a hierarchy with one god on top, his progeny below him. The twin's progeny and a few mortals with granted powers, and then their elitists of the lesser gods.

2) Are the gods seen identically across all cultures? So Thor "The Hammer" Godster is worshiped identically from the frozen deserts of the north to the rain soaked islands of the south?
- Yes and no; with some of the inner workings of the divine realm kept out of reach of mortals, there are those that push their beliefs (skewed though they may be) and those that don't.

4) Do you have a single pantheon of gods or multiple independent pantheons? Why?
- Multiple pantheons derived from a single source. It was the easiest way (in my eyes) to explain how all the gods came to be.

3) What affect do you think it would have on cultures if they all shared identical understandings of the gods? Imagine a Chinese boat landing on the western coast of South America (circa 1400ish) and finding the Inca worshiping the same gods worshiped across the sea.
- In my world, there would be turmoil if the truth of the divinities got leaked.

4) How would it affect churches if worshipers had solid and concrete evidence of the gods rather than relying on faith?
- It depends on the pantheon. The monotheistic pantheon would be drastically changed, but the polytheistic pantheon across the seas would be, "Ehh. Been there, done that".

5) How would your world react to finding an empty coke bottle?
- Considering I've already ran a comedic adventure in one of the areas that involved constructs, aberrations, and magical beasts shaped like snack foods from real life; the region this happened in (and the players) would question how some of these pets and artifacts escaped the lunatic's home. The Kender-like race would probably just swipe it, and the rest would assume that it's part of an alchemy experiment.

[Sonofaspectre]

See, these are great questions. I am currently running a game where in creating the world, I got my players to make up the different Gods who would be in the world and help with the creation aspect. So now we have all sorts of great ideas to play on. I'll answer the questions under the assumption of just my current game world.

1) Are the gods real? Some are, and some aren't. As best, they at least haven't directly interacted with the races for a generation or two.

2) Are the gods seen identically across all cultures? No. That is unrealistic. Take the greeks for a good example of how a pantheon should work. All the people know of all the gods, but certain cities worship one god over another. And some worship faiths and gods that don't actually exist, or are not actually gods.

4) Do you have a single pantheon of gods or multiple independent pantheons? Why? Again, you need a mix of both to be realistic. There is a major pantheon of gods, then there is the Old god that is still worshiped, and in one country a new pantheon - which are merely three different aspects of one of the normal pantheon's gods.

3) What affect do you think it would have on cultures if they all shared identical understandings of the gods? I believe that simple the answer is there wouldn't be different cultures. If everyone has the same belief systems, all you have left is classes and races, but nothing based on the pantheons or the gods, so the cultures all have the same heaven, the same hell, the same faith system. And that is boring.


4) How would it affect churches if worshipers had solid and concrete evidence of the gods rather than relying on faith? All churches and faiths have solid and concrete evidence of their gods, when you think about it. It is all about keeping the mystic of the gods. If they walk around and hang out with everybody on a regular basis, then the mystic and wonder of the gods is lost. How I handled it was that Gods DID walk around and hang out and directly influence things, until a single event - the Winter God supplanted all other seasons for a year long winter - then all the gods retreated, and have only been seen subtely within the world. It gives you both, concrete/solid evidence within the history of each belief/temple, and faith based since it has been 20ish years since that direct interaction with the world.

5) How would your world react to finding an empty coke bottle? It all depends on how I described it and if NPCs or PCs found it. Probably equally horrified and bewildered, but in the end, neutralized.

[Mushroom King]

I used to run a homebrew with all of the normal gods in the D&D handbook, but now I am making a dark fantasy/horror campain with occasional hints of Lovecraftian Abberation. The humans worship an entity called The Light, which is an embodiment of purity. The elves worship a couple of fey lords, as well as their own king as their cheif god. The dwarves worship their anscestors and their religion is steeped in necromantic ritual. The gnomes and halflings are pretty much irreligious. Most of the savage races worship various demon lords. Some cultists and a few really messed up people worship the Obyriths or even the true horrific villains of the game, the Elder Gods/Old Ones of the Far Realm.

So...

1) Hell yes. Though rarely if ever humanoid.

2) Usually, two seperate cultures don't worship the same god. The exception being the humans and their monotheistic Light, who is worshipped more or less the same everywhere, because the church of the Light has a strong centralized administrative and theological headquarters in the independant, theocratic city of Solus.

4) Different pantheons. Different cultures have different gods for the same things. While the gods recognize the existance of other gods (The Light recognizes the existance of the Fey Court recognizes the existance of the dwarven ancestor-spirits recognize the existance of the Old Ones recognize the existance of the Light), there are no temples to any fey lords in dwarven cities, and nobody in elven lands worship the Light.

3) Lots of intercultural understanding and a lot less warfare. Until, of course, they eventually started to create theological schisms and then had a horrible and bloody war. But because they are different cultures, their view of their place in the world, of the meaning of their lives, and of divinity is different from other peoples, and they do not worship the same way.

4) Well, they would have a lot more power, much of science would have to be reevaluated, it would cause a social revolution, and the idea of atheism, which, in the a world in which only faith can be provided as "evidence" of divine being is quite reasonable, would suddenly be entirely irrational.

5) they would take it and use it, but might be troubled as to what the hell Coca-Cola is. Pretty much all of the cultures in my campain have seen glass. If I personally found one, I would walk to the edge of North America to chuck it off the world back to the gods. But that's because I'm a hilldwelling bush-person that talks a strange dialect known as Minnesotese.
"Ja, soo... dis here Coca-Cola bottle came outa da sky dere. Dang city-folk, trowing deir dang trash on my lawn..."

[Edea]

Haha, I feel pretty lonely in the 'no gods' section right about now

[Morty]

In my non-D&D setting:

1) Maybe, maybe not. There's no proof they exist, and no proof they don't. Neither DM nor players know this. Clerics cast spells, but those spells may very well not come from gods. In all honesty, I as designer lean towards gods being just projection of mortal wishes and fears and therefore not real.

2) Every culture has its own gods, but their worship vary from place to place. It's also possible that various gods are the same divine being(provided the gods exist), for example the god of Dwarves and one of human gods.

3) Multiple pantheons -one, two or three per race- often denying each other's existence.

4) There wouldn't be much difference, as relligion doesn't play very big role in my setting and various cultures have got enough reasons to fight each other.

5) Depending on circumstances. Most people would think it's some magical leftover, crazy goblin invention or ancient artifact.

[Xuincherguixe]

It tends to vary a lot. A lot of the time I tend to introduce things that aren't really "gods" either. And a lot of this is stuff that's outside of D&D too.

1) I don't think I've ever done a campaign where gods themselves do not exist. They either do, or one can't tell for certain their existence or none existence. I've had individual non existent entities, but I don't think I've ever said no gods.

2) Generally no. Different cultures are going to have different values. In earth's history, individual accounts of various gods would vary widely. If the gods interacted heavily with the world though chances are their would be more consensus. But then they need not act consistent either.

3) It depends on what the theme, and where the conflict is focused. For the campaign I'm working on at the moment there are three sets of supernatural beings, each with their own value sets engaged in conflict. The gods are associated mostly with humans and rules for the sake of rules. (They're also the primary antagonists). The demons are associated with power (with evil as a frequent but not neccesary consequence. Good and Evil are not constructs of this universe), and nature spirits which represent a sense that doesn't make sense.

But I don't always make things nearly that complex.

4) In most of my games, "the faithful" composed of people who do not wish to suffer through the burdens of thought. More than any sort of divine beings, they are dedicated to ignorance. When faced with situations that challenge their ideas, the challenges are assaulted. But not in any way that is particularly admirable. Only those with free will ever accomplish anything significant. People who believe in themselves in these games though can believe in other things too, and are not neccesarily going to be Athiests.

5) Depends on the game. If it's in a modern setting (which they often are) it likely happens every day. If it's set in the future it could be a priceless historical artifact. In a medieval setting the people are likely going to be too stupid to understand what it is and not pay much attention to it. If someone who wasn't stupid found it, they would be extremely confused and might learn something from it. When he does, then the ignorant peasents might accuse him of witchcraft.