She-Ra, Princesses of Power [Netflix]

[Psyren]

So... It's good. Like, really, really good. Netflix is on a roll! (I refuse to discuss that Superdrags... thing, though, at least not here.)

And yes, they've kept all the cheesy 80s names like "Castaspella" and "Razzle Dazzle".

We're not totally through the first season yet but I already put it ahead of the similar Dreamworks Voltron reboot, which was also pretty good.

[Aotrs Commander]

So... It's good. Like, really, really good. Netflix is on a roll! (I refuse to discuss that Superdrags... thing, though, at least not here.)

And yes, they've kept all the cheesy 80s names like "Castaspella" and "Razzle Dazzle".

We're not totally through the first season yet but I already put it ahead of the similar Dreamworks Voltron reboot, which was also pretty good.

I saw it pop-up on Netflix as I was watching the last few episodes of One Punch Man. (Normally, I watch cartoons while I'm doing the front room, but the stuff that's been on during that time has been so dire I was desperate) and I quietly earmarked it for next week to have a go; so this is promising.

I honestly always preferred She-Ra to He-Man even as a child. I dunno, something about it I found less... Meh? Than He-Man. (Being too young to really appreicate the character stuff that He-Man did.)

Is the transformation sequence and the music as awesome as the original?

[Psyren]

Is the transformation sequence and the music as awesome as the original?

Yes and yes.

The show's quiet brilliance however is all the other princesses. It's a very diverse line-up - not just in terms of ethnicity or background, but also personality. The Ditzy Genius one, the Tsundere, the Flower Child, the Tomboy Princess etc. There's a solid push to market them at play here, with pony levels of characterization I'd say.

Having Adora essentially start off as a naive Stormtrooper gives her a pretty clear arc as well.

Also, expect plenty of "Hey, It's That Voice!"

[HandofShadows]

There's a solid push to market them at play here, with pony levels of characterization I'd say.

I haven't seen the show and I don't watch My Little Pony, but this line was enough to give me nightmares of She-Ra characters as pony's.

[Aotrs Commander]

I haven't seen the show and I don't watch My Little Pony, but this line was enough to give me nightmares of She-Ra characters as pony's.

Give it a few weeks... Actually, with the pony fandom, I bet you could find them already...

[Zmeoaice]

Saw the first few episodes, was alright. Not great, I would put this under Trollhunters and Voltron. It had an uphill battle with it's premise. With the first two they were about normal kids sucked into a world of adventure, this show is about a kid who was already in it, and on the evil side having to realize that.

Overall I think Adora's deflection happened too soon. Catra kind of had a point when she said Adora was willing to throw her entire life away after meeting people for a few hours even if it was ultimately the right decision. I also would have expected the Horde to drill into their soldiers heads that civilian causalities are acceptable for the "greater good" and Adora to be a little more hardened. Also was annoyed with how the princesses were presented as unequivocal good guys. But whatever, can't get too nuanced or morally ambiguous without upsetting little childrens.

Animation wise it is competent, certainly better than garbage like Steven Universe. It's a little too pastel and rounded though. Especially Glimmer's hair, it looks like it's a plastic chunk rather than actual hair. I really like the design of the Evil Horde land and soldiers' uniforms though, it is stylized and angular.

The existence of this show upsets a bunch of jerks who think tomboys are going to destroy the fabric of society so that gives me more incentive to keep watching.

[Anyr]

Also was annoyed with how the princesses were presented as unequivocal good guys. But whatever, can't get too nuanced or morally ambiguous without upsetting little childrens.

Keep watching.

[Psyren]

Overall I think Adora's deflection happened too soon. Catra kind of had a point when she said Adora was willing to throw her entire life away after meeting people for a few hours even if it was ultimately the right decision.

Part of me agrees with this - I was expecting the show to actually do the "double-life thing" where Adora still lives at the Horde barracks but undermines their operations as She-Ra whenever they're about to hurt people or make a big push. She looks different enough from Adora (platinum blonde hair instead of auburn and a foot or two taller) that I thought it would be believable.

But honestly, that premise is more holding-pattern/monster-of-the-week format. If skipping it and going straight to her rebellion early on means we get more characterization with the other princesses and more exploration of Castle Brightmoon, I'm here for it. Besides, I think Catra is going to have the lengthier redemption arc you're looking for, so all the more reason for them not to waste time repeating themselves.

I also would have expected the Horde to drill into their soldiers heads that civilian causalities are acceptable for the "greater good" and Adora to be a little more hardened.

When would they have hardened her? Adora had never actually been in the field before, remember?

Also was annoyed with how the princesses were presented as unequivocal good guys. But whatever, can't get too nuanced or morally ambiguous without upsetting little childrens.

...but they're not? I mean, they all staunchly oppose the Horde (so far), but in a very disjointed way - they're isolationist, passive, and each is a bit too heavily focused on their limited sphere of influence to see the big picture (thus promoting Glimmer's status as strategist.). There's plenty of flaws to go around from what I saw.

Keep watching.

Uh oh

[Zmeoaice]

But honestly, that premise is more holding-pattern/monster-of-the-week format. If skipping it and going straight to her rebellion early on means we get more characterization with the other princesses and more exploration of Castle Brightmoon, I'm here for it. Besides, I think Catra is going to have the lengthier redemption arc you're looking for, so all the more reason for them not to waste time repeating themselves.

Perhaps. I kind of want Catra to sink deeper though. She made it clear she wants to be "calling the shots" and it would be interesting to see her avoid redemption to stick with that goal.

When would they have hardened her? Adora had never actually been in the field before, remember?

She's still training in a military, which would harden someone even if it wasn't run by a tyrannical empire. She was also heavily abused by Shadow Weaver her master to become a living weapon. Plus they had training simulations.

...but they're not? I mean, they all staunchly oppose the Horde (so far), but in a very disjointed way - they're isolationist, passive, and each is a bit too heavily focused on their limited sphere of influence to see the big picture (thus promoting Glimmer's status as strategist.). There's plenty of flaws to go around from what I saw.

I'm not sure "not violent enough" isn't exactly a flaw that makes a society morally compromised.

[Anyr]

I'm not sure "not violent enough" isn't exactly a flaw that makes a society morally compromised.

Episode 4 is about people almost dooming themselves by being too peaceful. Standing idle while evil advances is a moral flaw.

[Zmeoaice]

Episode 4 is about people almost dooming themselves by being too peaceful. Standing idle while evil advances is a moral flaw.

Yeah it's a flaw, but it isn't evil.

I was more referring to more if the rebellion committed war crimes against the Horde in retaliation, or were exploiting their citizens via a class system with the monarchs on top.

But whatever good vs evil, standard fantasy plot.

[Psyren]

Perhaps. I kind of want Catra to sink deeper though. She made it clear she wants to be "calling the shots" and it would be interesting to see her avoid redemption to stick with that goal.

Until we get to the end (of the season if not the show), we can't conclude that she doesn't, can we?

She's still training in a military, which would harden someone even if it wasn't run by a tyrannical empire. She was also heavily abused by Shadow Weaver her master to become a living weapon. Plus they had training simulations.

1) If E1 represents a typical simulation for them (which it does), then the enemies in those sims are robots and traps, not sapients and certainly not civilians.

2) That empire has been lying to her about what they were doing, how, and why for her entire life. They never got to the whole "yeah this might seem awful but hey, greater good" part. She snuck outside before they could get around to the soft sell.

I'm not sure "not violent enough" isn't exactly a flaw that makes a society morally compromised.

Inaction isn't necessarily a moral failing, but it is a flaw. You're the one insisting that a show where the villains are literal fascists needs moral gray on both sides for some reason. (And I'll caveat that I haven't finished the season yet, so there might be something more along the lines of what you seemingly want anyway - it's implied that not all of the princesses withdrew from the original alliance under amicable circumstances.)

[Zmeoaice]

1) If E1 represents a typical simulation for them (which it does), then the enemies in those sims are robots and traps, not sapients and certainly not civilians.

2) That empire has been lying to her about what they were doing, how, and why for her entire life. They never got to the whole "yeah this might seem awful but hey, greater good" part. She snuck outside before they could get around to the soft sell.

Which is pretty stupid because they clearly were trying to train the kids to get out in the field. Adora was even promoted to commander, shes not some noob. If they didn't prepare them for war, they would make terrible soldiers, which wouldn't explain the threat of the Horde.

Inaction isn't necessarily a moral failing, but it is a flaw. You're the one insisting that a show where the villains are literal fascists needs moral gray on both sides for some reason.

Mostly because I want something more refreshing than the regular fantasy plots. I generally like themes of moral ambiguity and feel like this show passed an opportunity.

The main character is someone who grew up with the villains. I would like there to be more of an inner conflict other than "I hope these people accept me". She seems to be rather unaffected by her upbringing after she defects. Like when she was captured she talked about how Hordak was "bringing order" but didn't really delve into that.

I might change my mind once I see more episodes

[Bohandas]

Animation wise it is competent, certainly better than garbage like Steven Universe. It's a little too pastel and rounded though. Especially Glimmer's hair, it looks like it's a plastic chunk rather than actual hair.

Still an improvement over the original She-Ra and He-Man TV shows where evdrything looked like it was made of plastic

[Kato]

Saw the first two episodes. It's definitely better than I expected, overall decent to good. But I wouldn't put it over Voltron, though that had much more time to develop now. I'll likely keep it on in the background while doing other things.

The animation seems to be a bit... Hm, can't think of the right word. 'not good' is too strong but just not nice in some aspects.

[Jeivar]

I finished the first season in three days, so yeah, I liked it too.

I have to say I found Adora and Catra's relationship the most interesting part of it. I mean, come on!

Spoiler

Show

There's also an odd charm to the utterly stupid names. What are other members of Catra's species called? Catina? Catro? Catsy? Catholomew?

Though... I realise this is primarily aimed at children, but how on Etheria does the Rebellion plan to win a war if they only just beat up the enemy soldiers a bit and send them running back to regroup for another attack.

Also, this show does have a bad case of Main Characters Do Everything. I understand that the main hero has to always be in the thick of things, but a decent writer can still show that the rest of the world isn't just sitting on its haunches.

Spoiler: Seriously...

Show

WHERE were those palace guards during the attack on Bright Moon?? Was it their union-decreed coffee break?

[Bohandas]

Though... I realise this is primarily aimed at children, but how on Etheria does the Rebellion plan to win a war if they only just beat up the enemy soldiers a bit and send them running back to regroup for another attack.

Yeah, the good guys remind me a bit of the Monty Python skit about soldiers not taking a war seriously

[Zmeoaice]

Still an improvement over the original She-Ra and He-Man TV shows where evdrything looked like it was made of plastic

The 80s were a dark time for animation

[Jeivar]

The 80s were a dark time for animation

Good God, yes. I saw a 1940's Superman cartoon, and I was stunned by how much better it was than stuff that came decades later.

[Aotrs Commander]

I think He-Man, at least, used a bit of rotoscoping... (Paticularly noticable in that one shot (the one ou saw over and over again!) of He-Man running diaognally towards the camera!) But from what I understand, He-Man was on a shoe-string budget (more so than its slightly later contempoaries), which meant they had to take more shortcuts.

[Present 2.0]

Can I rant here about all the insanely stupid "criticisms" this show got or would that fall under political stuff, that isn't allowed here?

[Silfir]

If you find yourself compelled to ask the question, the answer is probably "No". This forum is more suited for petty, trivial complaints.

For example, I'm seven episodes or something in, and I've yet to see any evidence that the people of Etheria understand the concept of a wardrobe. Adora is *still* wearing a Horde uniform every day. Characters seem to wear the same outfit at all times, including at night. In the Mysticore baths they change into something that I suppose fills the role of a swimsuit, but that's it.

It was strange to have Adora's central arc revolve around having to convince the people of Brightmoon and elsewhere that she's on their side, rather than that of her former masters, and become completely opposed to the values of the Horde in every way - but still not get out of the uniform. I was thinking it might be a conscious decision on her part not to erase her origin, out of a fear she could be accused of trying to hide it. But now I'm pretty sure it's simply that the people of Etheria pick just one outfit and wear it for life.

I mean, think about it. When Glimmer puts Adora up in her own room, it's the height of luxury, and has all the amenities you could think of:

Got your vanity, bathroom, crystals, bell pull, tea nook, more crystals, bed, desk, and, of course, the waterfall.

Note the conspicuous omission of any kind of furniture that would fill the role of a wardrobe. Apparently in Etheria crystals are so critical a household item that it's considered good practice to have "more crystals" just in case. Same for the waterfall; you gotta have a waterfall. But a change of clothing? Doesn't even occur to anyone.



I haven't finished the season yet, so it's fully possible that they're doing it on purpose, and it'll be made a plot point. But even then, I doubt Bo will get to ever change his outfit. The poor boy.

[Bohandas]

It was strange to have Adora's central arc revolve around having to convince the people of Brightmoon and elsewhere that she's on their side, rather than that of her former masters, and become completely opposed to the values of the Horde in every way - but still not get out of the uniform. I was thinking it might be a conscious decision on her part not to erase her origin, out of a fear she could be accused of trying to hide it. But now I'm pretty sure it's simply that the people of Etheria pick just one outfit and wear it for life.

I'm thinking the uniform might be physically fused to her body somehow

[Bohandas]

There's also an odd charm to the utterly stupid names. What are other member's of Catra's species called? Catina? Catro? Catsy? Catholomew?

It's entirely possible that "Catra" is a nickname or a pseudonym, much like how Skeletor's real name is actually Keldor

EDIT:
Also, according to the wikipedia article the original Catra wasn't a real Magicat, she was a human who acquired vaguely catlike features from a magical artifact she stole from the magicats

EDIT:
though the new Catra is significantly more feline, so she might not be human in this version

[Telonius]

Yeah, the good guys remind me a bit of the Monty Python skit about soldiers not taking a war seriously

80s censors. They weren't allowed to show on-screen deaths under most circumstances for kids' shows. GI Joe was probably most famous for this, where the Cobra troops made Imperial Storm Troopers look like Robin Hood, but He-Man and She-Ra had it going too. (It was a big deal when GI Joe found a loophole around that and started fighting the Battle Android Troopers).

[GloatingSwine]

80s censors. They weren't allowed to show on-screen deaths under most circumstances for kids' shows. GI Joe was probably most famous for this, where the Cobra troops made Imperial Storm Troopers look like Robin Hood, but He-Man and She-Ra had it going too. (It was a big deal when GI Joe found a loophole around that and started fighting the Battle Android Troopers).

Also if you only had three or four toys of baddies you had to get them on screen every week. See: Thundercats.

[John Mason]

Glad to hear this one might be good to watch.

[Psyren]

It was strange to have Adora's central arc revolve around having to convince the people of Brightmoon and elsewhere that she's on their side, rather than that of her former masters, and become completely opposed to the values of the Horde in every way - but still not get out of the uniform. I was thinking it might be a conscious decision on her part not to erase her origin, out of a fear she could be accused of trying to hide it. But now I'm pretty sure it's simply that the people of Etheria pick just one outfit and wear it for life.

I think it's justifiable as simple practicality. Adora is a soldier, and she wants clothing she can move around and fight freely in, which the Horde uniform affords her. The frilly gowns of Bright Moon leave her feeling constrained or vulnerable as a result.

[JadedDM]

I think it's justifiable as simple practicality. Adora is a soldier, and she wants clothing she can move around and fight freely in, which the Horde uniform affords her. The frilly gowns of Bright Moon leave her feeling constrained or vulnerable as a result.

Also, it is a cartoon. I mean, it's pretty normal for characters to wear the same outfit all of the time in them. The Simpsons, Bob's Burgers, Duck Tales, Invader Zim, etc, all do this.

[Starwulf]

It's entirely possible that "Catra" is a nickname or a pseudonym, much like how Skeletor's real name is actually Keldor

This is only in the 2002 version of the show, the earlier show never revealed, while the early comics that came with the toy line "hinted" that Skeletor MIGHT be Keldor, King Randal's long lost brother who disappeared into a different dimension while messing around with magic that he really shouldn't have been. That particular comic(oddly enough, I remembered this almost verbatim, but had to look it up to make sure I remembered right) had King Randal and He-Man and the Sorceress gathering at a spot where you can peer through the dimensions once every year to see if they could find Keldor. Skeletor was long-range scrying them, and said(roughly) "They can not be allowed to find out the secret of Keldor, or it will be the end of me". The insinuation being that if they found out Skeletor was really Keldor, they could also figure out how to reverse what had created Skeletor and make him into Keldor again.

This can be read about here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skeletor Scroll down to "Post-Filmation series mini-comics".