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  1. - Top - End - #1351
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Aboleth View Post
    Hilgya still didn't need to take said actions. Hilgya--much like yourself--simply comes up with any flimsy justification she can to do what she wants at any given time, no matter how abhorrent.
    Well, the apple didn't fall far from the tree, then, innit?
    Last edited by The_Weirdo; 2018-12-04 at 12:05 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

  2. - Top - End - #1352
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Well, the apple didn't fall far from the tree, then, innit?
    So you admit Hilgya is an oppressor, much like her clan? Guess she should be killed, by your own logic.

  3. - Top - End - #1353
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Except I dislike them for a reason.
    Nobody but you thinks that matters.
    Last edited by Dion; 2018-12-04 at 12:13 PM.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Except I dislike them for a reason.
    What a coincidence! At this point, I dislike Hilgya for a reason, too.

    If you want to see that reason, check your mirror.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  5. - Top - End - #1355
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The Aboleth View Post
    So you admit Hilgya is an oppressor, much like her clan? Guess she should be killed, by your own logic.
    Hardly. She didn't start it, after all.
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Hardly. She didn't start it, after all.
    And that matters because...
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  7. - Top - End - #1357
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Nah. Who made the poor financial decision of marrying Hilgya off by force?

    And we can tell it's a poor economic decision because it bankrupted them.
    I'm impressed that you were able to define a circular argument while making a circular argument.
    Last edited by Peelee; 2018-12-04 at 12:21 PM.
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  8. - Top - End - #1358
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    I'm impressed that you were able to define a circular argument while making a circular argument.
    Well, is having married Hilgya off the root cause of them being bankrupt?
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

  9. - Top - End - #1359
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Except I dislike them for a reason.
    Where did I say anything about who you dislike? Read it again since you're apparently struggling:

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    The Weirdo's morality is "anyone I like can do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whomever they want."

  10. - Top - End - #1360
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Well, is having married Hilgya off the root cause of them being bankrupt?
    Im pretty sure Hilgya maliciously manipulating their perceptions is the root cause of them being bankrupt.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  11. - Top - End - #1361
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Keltest View Post
    Im pretty sure Hilgya maliciously manipulating their perceptions is the root cause of them being bankrupt.
    And did she do that in a vacuum?
    Quote Originally Posted by factotum View Post
    Oh Lord, somebody said "The_Weirdo" three times into a mirror again, didn't they?
    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.

  12. - Top - End - #1362
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruck View Post
    Great, we've got our answer. The Weirdo's morality is "anyone I like can do whatever they want, whenever they want, to whomever they want." I assume everyone else can see why this is obviously abhorrent and unsustainable, so can we move on?
    Unlikely. We have known that was the case since three or four "TW takes over a thread to try to justify Hilgya's atrocities as not being Evil because he likes Hilgya" back, and hasn't changed a thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by woweedd View Post
    I would say that's the dumbest theory Grey Wolf's heard, but, let's be honest: It's Grey Wolf. They've probably heard dumber theories today. Point is, neat idea, but it's a real stretch.
    Ceterum autem censeo Hilgya malefica est

  13. - Top - End - #1363
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    And did she do that in a vacuum?
    Nothing happens in a vacuum, but you seem perfectly willing to treat Hilgya's actions as such.
    “Evil is evil. Lesser, greater, middling, it's all the same. Proportions are negotiated, boundaries blurred. I'm not a pious hermit, I haven't done only good in my life. But if I'm to choose between one evil and another, then I prefer not to choose at all.”

  14. - Top - End - #1364
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    And did she do that in a vacuum?
    This is a lot like Tarquin's "Hey, I didn't lie! I just said the troops would be there, you assumed they'd be helping you" thing: Only you think it matters.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  15. - Top - End - #1365
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    What is sad about this whole intervention is that has led most of the forum to sympathize with rich people losing their accumulated/inherited wealth.

    To another rich person, admittedly (Hilgya's an adventurer; a single magic item of hers could have probably paid her legal fees), but still. My heart, at least, fails to bleed.

  16. - Top - End - #1366
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Well, is having married Hilgya off the root cause of them being bankrupt?
    According to you, the gods are, so she went after an illegitimate target. Either that, or everyone she has wronged can kill her for what she did to them and you can't say boo. Funny that your own arguments put her in the wrong no matter what, isn't it?
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  17. - Top - End - #1367
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    What is sad about this whole intervention is that has led most of the forum to sympathize with rich people losing their accumulated/inherited wealth.

    To another rich person, admittedly (Hilgya's an adventurer; a single magic item of hers could have probably paid her legal fees), but still. My heart, at least, fails to bleed.
    This is, in general, the biggest problem with The_Weirdo's posts.

    If my saying I dislike Hilgya because of him looked like joking, that's misleading, for it's not. Right now, if the next strip featured her dying horribly and going to Hel, I'd grin, where if The_Weirdo had never posted here, I'd be horrified by that.

    The good news, such as it is, is that I'm fairly confident this effect will wear off within a few weeks of him largely ceasing to post once the spotlight's no longer on Hilgya--for me, at least.
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    "The really unforgivable acts are committed by calm men in beautiful green silk rooms, who deal death wholesale, by the shipload, without lust, or anger, or desire, or any redeeming emotion to excuse them but cold fear of some pretended future. But the crimes they hope to prevent in the future are imaginary. The ones they commit in the present--they are real." --Aral Vorkosigan

    Quote Originally Posted by The Giant View Post
    This, in a nutshell.
    Yes, exactly.

  18. - Top - End - #1368
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Hardly. She didn't start it, after all.
    I find specially amusing that 1st grade logic "he/she started it" is the core of this argument, but given what you have said, and what can be understood without saying, it fits perfectly.
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  19. - Top - End - #1369
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    What is sad about this whole intervention is that has led most of the forum to sympathize with rich people losing their accumulated/inherited wealth.

    To another rich person, admittedly (Hilgya's an adventurer; a single magic item of hers could have probably paid her legal fees), but still. My heart, at least, fails to bleed.
    When was it ever said Hilgya's family was rich?

    Edit: If it's because Hilgya now has more than enough money to live off of, I imagine only having to care for two people is much easier than however big their clan is.
    Last edited by Rrmcklin; 2018-12-04 at 03:38 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #1370
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Rrmcklin View Post
    When was it ever said Hilgya's family was rich?
    It's a reasonable hypothesis. The Firehelms no longer having money seemed to be the reason why Ivan's clan didn't contest the divorce, which would suggest money was what they were bringing into the agreement, and once they didn't have it Ivan's clan had no incentive to keep the marriage going. In turn, this might suggest that Ivan's clan was more prominent and prestigious (thus providing a rationale for the Firehelms to want to intermarry), but perhaps no longer wealthy.
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  21. - Top - End - #1371
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmerwald1915 View Post
    What is sad about this whole intervention is that has led most of the forum to sympathize with rich people losing their accumulated/inherited wealth.

    To another rich person, admittedly (Hilgya's an adventurer; a single magic item of hers could have probably paid her legal fees), but still. My heart, at least, fails to bleed.
    I was always sad when Mr Scrooge lost his money in some episodes of Ducktales... I guess it depends on the rich guy... I mean it did always feel like he earned every penny...

  22. - Top - End - #1372
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by rbetieh View Post
    I was always sad when Mr Scrooge lost his money in some episodes of Ducktales... I guess it depends on the rich guy... I mean it did always feel like he earned every penny...
    He made his money the old-fashioned way: hegotrunoverbyaLEXUS luck. Not the biggest fan, but that line was golden.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    In 1898, after many adventures he finally ends up in Klondike, where he finds a golden rock the size of a goose's egg. By the following year he had made his first $1,000,000 and bought the deed for Killmule Hill from Casey Coot, the son of Clinton Coot and grandson of Cornelius Coot, the founder of Duckburg.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    He made his money the old-fashioned way: hegotrunoverbyaLEXUS luck. Not the biggest fan, but that line was golden.
    And questionable business and work ethics.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  24. - Top - End - #1374
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Yes, well. Good or Evil, authoritarians like Miko deserve what she got.
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Weirdo View Post
    Well, we very much are talking about a city that claims pretend-jurisdiction outside its borders. That by itself renders the entire system invalid.
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    Isn't that interesting? From bringing it up to demand hamishspence stop disagreeing with you, to "let's move on" just like that when challenged to actually support your claims rather than asserting them.
    Because you're not bringing anything new to the discussion, Kish. It would serve no purpose to debate you when you're just skipping back on an old groove.

    Quote Originally Posted by luagha View Post
    The 'problem' with Tippyverse is that it assumes a large number of capable spellcasters and that this large number invariably chooses to focus their studies and their time and their interests towards exactly the goals of showing up certain issues.
    I'm not assuming Tippyverse conditions. I'm assuming that the leader of one of the largest nations on the face of the planet, while investigating an event that might threaten universal destruction, would reasonably consider time and distance to be factors important enough that he would actually employ the Teleport services that we know, within the same story, he had available to him, in order to ensure that Miko doesn't waste weeks of everyone's time, not least her own, trekking overland to find people.
    Give directly to the extreme poor.

  25. - Top - End - #1375
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.
    That lasted about as long as I expected it to.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyraltari View Post
    the Vector Legion [is the IFCC's new pawns], mark my words. Way too much unfinished business there and they already know about the Gates.
    I'll take that bet.

  26. - Top - End - #1376
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by hroşila View Post
    It's a reasonable hypothesis. The Firehelms no longer having money seemed to be the reason why Ivan's clan didn't contest the divorce, which would suggest money was what they were bringing into the agreement, and once they didn't have it Ivan's clan had no incentive to keep the marriage going. In turn, this might suggest that Ivan's clan was more prominent and prestigious (thus providing a rationale for the Firehelms to want to intermarry), but perhaps no longer wealthy.
    Fair point. Still, I feel like the large point is that bankrupting people and condemning them to poverty is generally a bad thing. How much money they had before becomes a bit irrelevant, doesn't it?

  27. - Top - End - #1377
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lacuna Caster View Post
    Weirdo... I'm not sure you're entirely clear on how an 'alliance' works.
    It was doomed once The_Weirdo realized an alliance would necessitate being a group, I'd reckon.
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    To be honest, all your arguments with The_Weirdo look so similar I can't tell if I'm reading new posts or I've accidentally skipped back to an older page and am reading those. Haven't all these arguments been hashed out already?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kish View Post
    This is, in general, the biggest problem with The_Weirdo's posts.

    If my saying I dislike Hilgya because of him looked like joking, that's misleading, for it's not. Right now, if the next strip featured her dying horribly and going to Hel, I'd grin, where if The_Weirdo had never posted here, I'd be horrified by that.

    The good news, such as it is, is that I'm fairly confident this effect will wear off within a few weeks of him largely ceasing to post once the spotlight's no longer on Hilgya--for me, at least.
    I would suggest you stop arguing with him, in that case. Hilgya didn't ask for The_Weirdo's defence. If it starts to affect your enjoyment of the comic, that's when you know it's time to stop.

    My suggestion is, next time The_Weirdo posts something ridiculous, we don't all take the bait and pile on him for pages. Can we talk about something else now?
    Last edited by Potatopeelerkin; 2018-12-04 at 04:45 PM.
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  29. - Top - End - #1379
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Potatopeelerkin View Post
    My suggestion is, next time The_Weirdo posts something ridiculous, we don't all take the bait and pile on him for pages. Can we talk about something else now?
    Even though I'm absolutely guilty myself, while I certainly agree with that notion, you're far from the first person to propose it. Not even the first in this thread, at that.
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  30. - Top - End - #1380
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    Default Re: OOTS #1147 - The Discussion Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Peelee View Post
    Even though I'm absolutely guilty myself, while I certainly agree with that notion, you're far from the first person to propose it. Not even the first in this thread, at that.
    Oh, I know. I just feel like it's worth suggesting again, seeing as it obviously didn't happen the first time.
    Last edited by Potatopeelerkin; 2018-12-04 at 04:47 PM.
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