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  1. - Top - End - #91
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    OrcBarbarianGirl

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    I honestly haven't noticed this being the case. I usually see powergamers sticking to their own little threads about coffeelockadins or whatever. Of course, you could easily accuse me of being a powergamer - at the very least, I'm one of those awful "don't play a beastmaster ever" people. And I've probably said that at the wrong time before. But if that doesn't interest you, ignore it??? Like it's not hard??
    Quote Originally Posted by DragonSorcererX View Post
    In a world with grey morality you could say that your mission is "I will magically nuke every hobgoblin settlement." (Neutral Good)...

  2. - Top - End - #92
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    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChildofLuthic View Post
    I usually see powergamers sticking to their own little threads about coffeelockadins or whatever.


    "coffeelockadins"

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



    I love it!
    Quote Originally Posted by Malifice View Post
    I'm not overly concerned with other tables mate.
    Quote Originally Posted by Safety Sword View Post
    You're doing D&D right. Just sayin'.
    My 5e D&D Blog

  3. - Top - End - #93
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baptor View Post
    "coffeelockadins"
    "By making two pushups every hours and resting even though I'm not tired, I have an unlimited amount of smites."


  4. - Top - End - #94
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    Planetar

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    >Let me insult a group of people by calling them power gamers because they see a Wis based Class and a Wis based race and add them together and I also like giving funny little names to 'builds' because I only play Orc Wizards and Kobold barbarians.
    Okay.

  5. - Top - End - #95
    Orc in the Playground
     
    BlueWizardGirl

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Don't you usally find this behavior in threads that are for discussing mechanics? And in those cases there are right and wrong answers. It being your opinion is a non argument and doesn't really add anything to the discussion at all. Why it's your opinion is far more interesting than what your opinion is since that might actually have some value.

  6. - Top - End - #96
    Orc in the Playground
     
    RedWizardGuy

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanarii View Post
    Yeah, no one is going to really feel a significant difference between a one point stat modifier difference. Even 2 points (16 to 20) gets swept under the rug as you gain enough levels.

    A 20 on a rolled character to start might be noticeably more powerful at level 1. But a 16 vs an 18 at level 8, while mechanically superior, is providing a much larger psychological bonus than mechanical one.

    This is noticible when you point out to newer players that the game math doesn't even assume a 18 until level 10, and they've previously been fretting over not getting it at level 4.
    Yes. That's why I think is not bad to increase your stat at lvl 4, but at lvl 8 instead max your stat use it to get some feat. And maybe max your stat in the future, as is not bad in any case for casters: spells saving throw, prepared spells, attack, but also for skills and your own saving throws.

  7. - Top - End - #97
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Pex's Avatar

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Schneider View Post
    Yes. That's why I think is not bad to increase your stat at lvl 4, but at lvl 8 instead max your stat use it to get some feat. And maybe max your stat in the future, as is not bad in any case for casters: spells saving throw, prepared spells, attack, but also for skills and your own saving throws.
    It also doesn't hurt to do the reverse, take the feat at 4th and go to 18 at 8th. Even for spellcasters monster saving throws aren't so high at these levels you wish you had the 18. Neither option is poor. Do what fits your fancy. That's a good thing.

    That's of course presuming using Point Buy. If you use dice rolling a nice array can make the choice easier.
    Quote Originally Posted by OgresAreCute View Post
    "Welcome to Dungeons and Dragons fifth edition, where the DCs are made up and the rules don't matter."

  8. - Top - End - #98
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    OrcBarbarianGirl

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadesh View Post
    >Let me insult a group of people by calling them power gamers because they see a Wis based Class and a Wis based race and add them together and I also like giving funny little names to 'builds' because I only play Orc Wizards and Kobold barbarians.
    Okay.
    I can't tell if this is directed at me? Like, I came down on a pro-power gamer position, and as a DM I tend to strongly suggest they don't make non-optimal choices, but I'm the one who gave a silly name to the warlock/sorcerer/paladin multiclass so
    Quote Originally Posted by DragonSorcererX View Post
    In a world with grey morality you could say that your mission is "I will magically nuke every hobgoblin settlement." (Neutral Good)...

  9. - Top - End - #99
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    If someone had made a thread about, ďare entitled role players ruining the gameĒ and were talking about people who want to role play and change the rules to get what they want, it would have been locked within an hour...

  10. - Top - End - #100
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    If someone had made a thread about, ďare entitled role players ruining the gameĒ and were talking about people who want to role play and change the rules to get what they want, it would have been locked within an hour...
    On what are you basing this claim, just to know?

  11. - Top - End - #101
    Ettin in the Playground
     
    Chimera

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    If someone had made a thread about, ďare entitled role players ruining the gameĒ and were talking about people who want to role play and change the rules to get what they want, it would have been locked within an hour...
    Unlikely, but this does highlight how both sides of a bitter, decades old fight where both sides have routinely been awful to each other can paint themselves as the beleaguered underdogs. There's probably a greater social/societal metaphor buried in there somewhere...
    Last edited by Willie the Duck; 2018-12-06 at 11:27 AM.

  12. - Top - End - #102
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unoriginal View Post
    On what are you basing this claim, just to know?
    the fact that someone is whiny and aggressive because they don't like "power gamers" ruining their game.

    the same exact thing could be brought up in reverse about people who want to "Role Play" and ignore the actual rules in the book.

    However, Role-players are held on a pedestal like they are the icon of virtue but if someone wants to make their character the best at their job all of a sudden they are just scum minmaxers who ignore role play for power despite the two being perfectly able to coincide.

    Ex. I will build the best character to do its job possible, if I am building an archer they will be a great archer, if I am building a master detective he will be amazing at detective work, but I will also have probably a 10 page minimum backstory and footnotes for the DM on exactly how their personality works.

    Simple as this: Role Players automatically get a positive spin but "power gamers" automatically get a negative one despite neither of which being exclusive.

  13. - Top - End - #103
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    mephnick's Avatar

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    I hate role-players and power-gamers. I remember when the game had no options except to be eaten by wolves, dagnabbit. And I liked it!

  14. - Top - End - #104
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Quote Originally Posted by mephnick View Post
    I hate role-players and power-gamers. I remember when the game had no options except to be eaten by wolves, dagnabbit. And I liked it!
    All these fancy people with their dice, when I was growing up imaginary combat consisted of "Zap, I hit you!" "Nah uh, no you didn't"

  15. - Top - End - #105
    Orc in the Playground
     
    WolfInSheepsClothing

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by mephnick View Post
    I hate role-players and power-gamers. I remember when the game had no options except to be eaten by wolves, dagnabbit. And I liked it!
    Wolves? When I was playing first edition, we were eaten by somewhat large hamsters! You were lucky to be eaten by wolves.

  16. - Top - End - #106
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    Marywn's Avatar

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    If you die in the get, you get eatten by a large creature in real life.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nifft View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Marywn View Post
    TIME FOR THESAURUS.COM!
    Consummate
    For a sufficiently sexy Fey patron, that might be the best word yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Man_Over_Game View Post
    Have Barbarian Bear Totem Centaur, who's being ridden by a Cavalier Centaur, who's being ridden by a Life Cleric Centaur, who's being ridden by a Goliath Monk, who's being ridden by a Gnomish Warlock.

    HI-HO SILVER, AWAYYYYYYY~!

  17. - Top - End - #107
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    stoutstien's Avatar

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by MilkmanDanimal View Post
    Wolves? When I was playing first edition, we were eaten by somewhat large hamsters! You were lucky to be eaten by wolves.
    House cats
    what is the point of living if you can't deadlift?

    All credit to the amazing avatar goes to thoroughlyS

  18. - Top - End - #108
    Dwarf in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Callak_Remier View Post
    hero's are often lacking. Perhaps its just a difference of perspective. For me my definition of a Hero has More to do with Sacrifice than your definition perhaps.
    Probably. We want slightly different things, but it seems like we both get what we want.

    Quote Originally Posted by Callak_Remier View Post
    I would like To have my Morals and Ethics being challenged and thrown into question, while fighting epic battles in fantastic locations. All of which is apart of an intricate storyline.
    If you can get that kind of gaming on a regular basis, then you are a lucky man/woman/whatever.

  19. - Top - End - #109
    Orc in the Playground
     
    PaladinGuy

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Back in my day we could only play by using sign-language and grunts because words weren't invented yet. Sure we had fire if the firekeeper did his job but that didn't help because nobody could read ... and also books weren't invented. All you kids with your fancy language and house thingies. Grow up.
    Last edited by jdolch; 2018-12-06 at 01:04 PM.

  20. - Top - End - #110
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    2D8HP's Avatar

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by stoutstien View Post
    House cats

    Covered pits.

    To illustrate,

    The scene:

    A dank almost crypt like basement/garage during the waning years of the Carter Administration, two pre-teens and three teenagers surround a ping pong table, that has books, papers, dice, pizza and sodas on it

    Teen DM (my best friends older brother): You turn the corner, and 20' away you see the door shown on the map.

    Teen player (who thinks he's all that because he's been playing longer than me with the LBB's, but does he have the new PHB and DMG? No! So who's really the "Advanced" one huh!): With the lantern still tied to the ten foot pole, I slowly proceed forward observing if they are any drafts from unexpected places. You (looks at me) check the floor with the other pole.

    Me (pre-teen): Oh man it's late, are we every getting into the treasure room today!

    Teen player: You've got to check for traps!

    Me: I run up and force the door open!

    DM: Blarg the fighter falls through the floor onto the spikes below.

    *rolls dice*

    Your character is dead.

    Teen player: Dude you got smoked!

    Me: Look at my next character. I rolled a 15 for Strength!

    DM: Really?

    Me: Yeah, Derek totally witnessed me rolling it up!

    DM: Did he?

    Derek (my best friend, another pre-teen who invited me to the game): Are you gonna eat that slice of pizza?

    Me: No.

    Derek: Yeah I totally saw it.

    *munch*

    DM: *groan*



    In memory of my best friend, Derek Lindstrom Whaley, who in 6th grade saw me reading the blue book and invited me to play D&D at his house - R.I.P.

    Quote Originally Posted by jdolch View Post
    Back in my day we could only play by using sign-language and grunts because words weren't invented yet. Sure we had fire if the firekeeper did his job but that didn't help because nobody could read ... and also books weren't invented. All you kids with your fancy language and house thingies. Grow up.

    *ahem*

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigreid View Post
    If your clan has discovered fire you are no true Grognard!
    Quote Originally Posted by Willie the Duck View Post
    Well, that's fine, it's not a competition, but then trying to out-old-school 2d8 seems silly...
    Grim specter of noogie hangs like shroud over us all


    Extended Sig


    D&D Alignment history


    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    Does the game you play feature a Dragon sitting on a pile of treasure, in a Dungeon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja_Prawn View Post
    You're an NPC stat block."I remember when your race was your class you damned whippersnappers"
    Snazzy Avatar by Honest Tiefling!

  21. - Top - End - #111
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by 2D8HP View Post
    Covered pits.

    To illustrate,

    The scene:

    A dank almost crypt like basement/garage during the waning years of the Carter Administration, two pre-teens and three teenagers surround a ping pong table, that has books, papers, dice, pizza and sodas on it

    Teen DM (my best friends older brother): You turn the corner, and 20' away you see the door shown on the map.

    Teen player (who thinks he's all that because he's been playing longer than me with the LBB's, but does he have the new PHB and DMG? No! So who's really the "Advanced" one huh!): With the lantern still tied to the ten foot pole, I slowly proceed forward observing if they are any drafts from unexpected places. You (looks at me) check the floor with the other pole.

    Me (pre-teen): Oh man it's late, are we every getting into the treasure room today!

    Teen player: You've got to check for traps!

    Me: I run up and force the door open!

    DM: Blarg the fighter falls through the floor onto the spikes below.

    *rolls dice*

    Your character is dead.

    Teen player: Dude you got smoked!

    Me: Look at my next character. I rolled a 15 for Strength!

    DM: Really?

    Me: Yeah, Derek totally witnessed me rolling it up!

    DM: Did he?

    Derek (my best friend, another pre-teen who invited me to the game): Are you gonna eat that slice of pizza?

    Me: No.

    Derek: Yeah I totally saw it.

    *munch*

    DM: *groan*



    In memory of my best friend, Derek Lindstrom Whaley, who in 6th grade saw me reading the blue book and invited me to play D&D at his house - R.I.P.




    *ahem*
    Not nearly as poignant but:

    I was sitting in my college dorm room talking to my room mate, Hat, (His real name was Jason but everyone, and I mean EVERYONE even his college teachers called him Hat).

    "Hey, Hat, I just finally got my new knife in the mail."

    "What kind of knife is it?"

    "It is a Tom Brown Tracker series, made of ..." I went on a 10 minute description of my new knife.

    "It may be masterwork, but is it a +1 Knife?"

    "+1, what the crap are you talking about?"

    And just like that, I became a gamer.

  22. - Top - End - #112
    Titan in the Playground
     
    Imp

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Got to a RPG club as part of the activities the town proposed for kids during the holidays. Had an introductory session of a game called "Guilds". PCs worked for a Guild who wanted some kind of mystery in a small village investigated. Spent most of the session with people going to the market before leaving to that village. One of them bought a pet monkey, another went to an underground slave market and bought a barbarian lady. When we finally showed up to the village, we didn't have the time to solve anything, but we found a sunken smuggled/pirate ship with only one survivor, which I had to save because the others kept wanting to torture him to death to get info (or just out of a desire to kill).

    A few days later, my mother bought me a White Dwarf magazine, with tons of lore and an awesome battle story and Lord Mazdamundi on his giant dinosaur.

    And I've been playing RPG since.

  23. - Top - End - #113
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    OrcBarbarianGirl

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    tongue Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    See, I remember the days of roleplaying before organisms could even see, let alone use see as a metaphor for comprehension. We could barely comprehend that we could comprehend things. Imagining we were something else was a huge leap forward and really passed the time in between absorbing nutrients.

    Biggest play I ever made: "I want to eat something over there." Anticipated the trope of "being able to move" that you see in all stories these days.
    Quote Originally Posted by Petrocorus View Post
    This thread, Questions that can't be answered... Answered by RAW by No brains, is Epic.
    Quote Originally Posted by illyahr View Post
    That is so stupid it's hilarious.
    Quote Originally Posted by georgie_leech View Post
    ...I've clearly been playing D&D for too long, because that made a demented kind of sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by that_one_kobold View Post
    And this is why I love D&D

  24. - Top - End - #114
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    Ex. I will build the best character to do its job possible, if I am building an archer they will be a great archer, if I am building a master detective he will be amazing at detective work, but I will also have probably a 10 page minimum backstory and footnotes for the DM on exactly how their personality works.
    10 pages? Minimum? Just to say, a player turning up with 10 pages of backstory with footnotes would be all sorts of red flags to me and that has nothing to do with roleplaying 'vs' powergaming.

  25. - Top - End - #115
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Contrast View Post
    10 pages? Minimum? Just to say, a player turning up with 10 pages of backstory with footnotes would be all sorts of red flags to me and that has nothing to do with roleplaying 'vs' powergaming.
    I am a writer, everything I turn in is going to be long and detailed.

    My last character had an 88 page backstory.

    I put a LOT into building something, which is why I have an issue people who gimp their characters for the sake of "role-playing" also with people who want to do things against the rule because "That is what my character would do"

    If my character dies because you thought it would be fun to make a rogue with a great axe and wade into melee in light armor, I have a major problem with that.

    Someone can RP anything they want, I encourage it, don't just show up with some numbers on the page and run with it. Write a story to RP it out, but you still have to be useful to the group or the group will just leave you at the nearest settlement and replace you with someone actually good at their role.
    Last edited by Misterwhisper; 2018-12-06 at 03:18 PM.

  26. - Top - End - #116
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Flumph

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Contrast View Post
    10 pages? Minimum? Just to say, a player turning up with 10 pages of backstory with footnotes would be all sorts of red flags to me and that has nothing to do with roleplaying 'vs' powergaming.
    Yeah, if someone did that I would take them aside and find out if they are really right for the game. I think most people like that are trying to be the protagonist which isn't going to fly. The most common thing I see in new players is not realizing what a level 1 character is. Then they become disappointed when their character with a heroic backstory is actually very inexperienced. The game should be played at the table.

    They should be aware that with adventure comes danger too. Characters and parties can and do die.

    Backgrounds do a good job here. Other details should be a paragraph tops.
    Last edited by ad_hoc; 2018-12-06 at 06:05 PM.
    If you are trying to abuse the game; Don't. And you're probably wrong anyway.

  27. - Top - End - #117
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ad_hoc View Post
    Yeah, if someone did that I would take them aside and find out if they are really right for the game. I think most people like that are trying to be the protagonist which isn't going to fly. The most common thing I see in new players is not realizing what a level 1 character is. Then they become disappointed when their character with a heroic backstory is actually very inexperienced. The game should be played at the table.

    They should be aware that with adventure comes danger too. Characters and parties can and do die.

    Backgrounds do a good job here. Other details should be a paragraph tops.
    It is more that I am a writer, I love it and do it for a living and as a hobby.

    The backsorties are filled with details of their lives that made them who they are from the details of their parents and siblings and how their personalities and upbringing has made them who they are.

    I also try to make sure I hit 5 major point:

    1. Why are you the class you are?
    Did you pick it and seek training?
    Did you not have much choice?
    Did you just so happen to end up one by luck?
    That kind of thing

    2. What are your morals like?
    We donít use alignments, a person is more than just good or evil, lawful or chaotic.
    What will you do and not do based on your moral outlook?

    3. How do you feel about other races and classes?
    Not specific classes but in general like how do you feel about magic Users, about warriors, about skills based people?
    What about certain races?

    4. Why are you an adventurer?

    What is your goal?
    Did you do it for greed?
    Glory?
    Love?
    Thrills?

    5. What is your end goal, what is the big picture?
    Where do you want to end up?
    How do you want others to see you.

    As games progress I keep track of things in the form of either a character journal written in first person, or I have the game written down as a novel that builds as the game progresses.

    I am actually a huge role-player, but because I put so much work into it I canít stand the idea of dying because someone else could not pull their weight so I get called a powergamer like it is some insult and because I am now somehow a powergamer my role play does not matter.

  28. - Top - End - #118
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    Flumph

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    It is more that I am a writer, I love it and do it for a living and as a hobby.
    D&D is not a tool to force your novel onto people.

    It's a collaborative storytelling game.

    If people want to read your novel they will.
    If you are trying to abuse the game; Don't. And you're probably wrong anyway.

  29. - Top - End - #119
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    BardGuy

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by ad_hoc View Post
    D&D is not a tool to force your novel onto people.

    It's a collaborative storytelling game.

    If people want to read your novel they will.
    I did not say I have to be the spotlight, or that I expect anyone else to read it. that is why I give the dm the foot notes because sometimes they donít really care what someone is playing or why.

    As the game goes and I write up notes and things, that is as the player not the dm, I donít usually even show it to the other players I do it for me.

    So now somehow if I make the character well I am somehow wrong for being a powergamer, but I write a longer backstory so I am also wrong for being a role player.

  30. - Top - End - #120
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    Nifft's Avatar

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    Default Re: Have Power Gamers ruined online discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterwhisper View Post
    So now somehow if I make the character well I am somehow wrong for being a powergamer, but I write a longer backstory so I am also wrong for being a role player.
    Moderation in all things, I guess?

    Or perhaps: "The only winning move is not to play*."

    *) ... the game where you compare yourself against the ideals of everyone on the forum, because you will fall short of someone's.

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