Which Lich?

[slexlollar89]

Does anybody see a downside to a warlock lich? They meet casting reqs, and easily can make a phylactery... Plus the lich abilities add to their one man coolness...

Any thoughts? Basically I'm thinking of particular things like feats to take for this particular guy/girl because I plan on making one.

[Tor the Fallen]

You lose 4 levels.

[slexlollar89]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that this is an NPC idea, not a player idea.

[martyboy74]

It's a warlock. There's yer problem.

Maybe if you make all warlock levels count as non-associated?

[Sornjss Lichdom]

It sounds.. ok.. its just that it's so untraditional. Maybe it the idea of flamboent waving arms or demonic sounding verbal components. Just shooting beams from your hands is so.. different, it's not like it wont work, in fact it may become the new "thing" but until I see a lay out on baisc char blow up it just sounds so foriegn.

[Starsinger]

It sounds.. ok.. its just that it's so untraditional. Maybe it the idea of flamboent waving arms or demonic sounding verbal components. Just shooting beams from your hands is so.. different, it's not like it wont work, in fact it may become the new "thing" but until I see a lay out on baisc char blow up it just sounds so foriegn.

Hands? Refluff it! Shoot the eldritch blasts from your EYES! Laser Eye Beams FTW! Yeah I think a warlock lich would be cool.

[Tor the Fallen]

It's also, mechanically, not feasible. Liches have to make their own phylacteries, and as far as I know, that requires a craft wondrous item feat that warlocks don't meet the prerequisites for (able to cast 3rd level spells). Also, isn't there a caster level req for the lich? Like 11 or 13?

But as far as a charismatic, undead, blaster, I say go for it! It works quite well, especially if you want to throw the awesomeness that is Lich at your party without having to pull the punches of a 13th level caster.

[Starsinger]

It's also, mechanically, not feasible. Liches have to make their own phylacteries, and as far as I know, that requires a craft wondrous item feat that warlocks don't meet the prerequisites for (able to cast 3rd level spells). Also, isn't there a caster level req for the lich? Like 11 or 13?

Warlocks can craft as if they could cast spells, due to their Decieve Item class feature. And Warlocks can qualify for things with a Caster Level, they cannot qualify for things that require specific spells or the ability to cast spells of a certain level, with the exception of Crafting Items.

[Tor the Fallen]

Warlocks can craft as if they could cast spells, due to their Decieve Item class feature. And Warlocks can qualify for things with a Caster Level, they cannot qualify for things that require specific spells or the ability to cast spells of a certain level, with the exception of Crafting Items.

Oh cool, did not know that (obviously).

[Nerd-o-rama]

I say go for it. It's an awesome and flavor-sensible idea, especially for an NPC who doesn't have to worry about Level Adjustment. And even then, it doesn't make as big a deal to a Warlock as it does to a Wizard, as a 'lock's power-gain is linear like a fighter's, rather than exponential like a caster's.

[Mr. Moogle]

It's a warlock. There's yer problem.

Maybe if you make all warlock levels count as non-associated?

OBJECTION!: WARLOCKS ARE NOT UNDERPOWERED....Wait *rereeads class*. Thanks you just crushed my worldview.

[martyboy74]

OBJECTION!: WARLOCKS ARE NOT UNDERPOWERED

OBJECTION DENIED!: WARLOCKS ARE UNDERPOWERED

Really, they're underpowered as a PC, where they get to use their main advantage (inexhaustible power supply). As a BBEG, they'll suck even more, because they can only really become equal in a war of attrition; something that will not happen.

[Nerd-o-rama]

HOLD IT!

A Warlock's effectiveness is not on trial here.

[Tor the Fallen]

OBJECTION DENIED!: WARLOCKS ARE UNDERPOWERED

Really, they're underpowered as a PC, where they get to use their main advantage (inexhaustible power supply). As a BBEG, they'll suck even more, because they can only really become equal in a war of attrition; something that will not happen.

You mean when 4 jerks come bumbling into this guy's home, which happens to be a well trapped dungeon, lurking with undead, which he is intimately familiar, and has spent the last 300 years planning for just such an occasion?

[Drider]

You mean when 4 jerks come bumbling into this guy's home, which happens to be a well trapped dungeon, lurking with undead, which he is intimately familiar, and has spent the last 300 years planning for just such an occasion?

It requires the dm being a little responsible to play him/her/it smart.

[Tor the Fallen]

It requires the dm being a little responsible to play him/her/it smart.

What DM wouldn't play a lich smart?

Err, well, I like the warlock lich because it means you can play your lich smart, but not have it be an autokill for the players. A well played caster lich would wipe the floor with the party. Then bring them back to unlife and make them wipe up the mess they made when they wiped the floor the first time.

[dyslexicfaser]

OBJECTION DENIED!: WARLOCKS ARE UNDERPOWERED

Really, they're underpowered as a PC, where they get to use their main advantage (inexhaustible power supply). As a BBEG, they'll suck even more, because they can only really become equal in a war of attrition; something that will not happen.

I think it would be an entertaining way of running a dungeon, to have the lich pop in, throw off some pithy comment, blast them from way the hell away with eldritch spear, then take off.

[ocato]

Just make the Lich way higher level than those guys. Then when he starts eye-beaming them, it'll be scary and dangerous, but not Round 1 TPK that a high level Wizard can swing if played 'too well'.

[Collin152]

*facepalm*
Why diddn't I think of this? I want to steal it, but now it isn't as original.

[Kurald Galain]

Rather than eye beams (which are at least slightly silly ) I'd use something resembling Force Lightning. Let's face it, Palpatine does rather look like a lich...

Also, warlocks can do all sorts of nasty things (yes, that are underpowered yet flavorful) without using their eldritch blast.

[AKA_Bait]

Sounds pretty awesome. The Warlock Lich stalks them as they search the dungeon for his phylactery. I like it!

Things you might want to take:

Give him the monster feat 'quicken spell like ability' so he can pop off 2 eldrich blasts in a round three times a day.

Give him stuff that up's his dex, so that his blasts hit more. You can build that in backwards with Tomes if you don't want the PCs to get their gubby little paws on a pair of gloves.

Make liberal use of the Voracious Dispelling, Devour Magic, Flee the Scene and Retributive Invisibilty invocations for hit and run tactics.

EDIT:
Also, I could be more helpful with specific advice if you told me:
1) How many levels of warlock you want our lichy friend to be.
2) How badass your party is so I can suggest CR appropriate things.

[AslanCross]

Rather than eye beams (which are at least slightly silly ) I'd use something resembling Force Lightning. Let's face it, Palpatine does rather look like a lich...

"Now witness the firepower of this FULLY ARMED and OPERATIONAL dank dungeon!"

Seriously, I don't see anything seriously gimped about a warlock BBEG, let alone a lich. I think it's a cool idea. The dude gets to wear armor, too. Wouldn't it be cool for the PCs to realize that their lich isn't wearing robes, but elven chainmail?

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Noxious Blast. If they fail their save (and they probably will against a full charisma warlock lich with the same HD) they are nauseated (no actions) for 10 rounds.

Sort of like when you Force Lightning someone he's dazed and can't act?

Even better, the Warlock Lich can heal itself with the Forc...errr utterdark blast unlimited times per day. Flee the Scene while invisible, heal, blast, repeat.

[slexlollar89]

Yeah, I know the warlocks a little weak, but it's my favorite base class. Plus, a lich is a classic BBEG, and a warlock lich is a classic unorthodox BBEG.

plus, If I named him Palpetine, I would have to give him a homebrew lightning invocation.

"UNLIMITED POWEEEERRRR!!!"
"dude, why's that lich shouting at us?"
"dunno, wait, he just threw some pink crp at me?"
"oh he's so dead er... uh... deader"

[slexlollar89]

Plus, give the LockLich a cohort paladin of tyranny, slap Darth in front of his name, and give him some fighters in white breastplates, and you got an Empire.

[Azerian Kelimon]

Just remember to make the warlock an archlich if he's good. Archliches are the only good liches.

[Leon]

"We have found a Lich. May we burn her?"

[Edea]

Sorry, I forgot to mention that this is an NPC idea, not a player idea.

Create a lich specifically geared for invocation use. Monster cribbing time!

[dyslexicfaser]

Well, you know what the puritans say: "Thou shalt not suffer a lich to live."

[slexlollar89]

"well, you could try to burn me, but I have fire and lightning resistance from my class! sorry guys, god's not gonna smite me, and no burning today..."
(villigars collectively) "aaawwww"
"well, there is a group of nasty adventurers that I need to kill, maybe you could burn them? (mwa ha ha! cha rules!)
"yeah, the abomination against nature is right! lets all kill those snooping adventurers!"
(collective villiage) "yeaahh! BURN THEM!"

but seriously, what feats and stuff would be a good suggestion?