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    Orc in the Playground
     
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    Default The Hag Patron (Enter the Witchlock!)

    Spoiler: A little backround...
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    Hey all,

    I've been working a top down original class for a while now that is going to be a Witch. I know many versions exist already but none of them quite match my vision. However, it turns out homebrewing an entire class is kind of a time consuming process, and I don't have much of that to spare right now.

    With that said, I brushed up on the Warlock spell list last night and realized that most of their spells fill the vision I had for the Witch, and that if you ignore the flavor, both Archfey and Great Old One Pacts have very witch like abilities to them, at least for me. So I decided to implement some of the rough draft work I have on the Witch full class into a quick and dirty subclass for the Warlock, as I find it fits pretty well mechanically and fluff wise (You cannot tell me the PHB picture for the Warlock isn't very witchlike!).


    Please feel free to give me your critiques, I want this to be something usable and balanced.

    Spoiler: Rough Draft
    Show
    Expanded Spell List
    • 1st Level: Find Familiar, Ray Of Sickness
    • 2nd Level: Blindness/Deafness, Moonbeam
    • 3rd Level: Bestow Curse, Leomund's Tiny Hut
    • 4th Level: Dominate Beast, Polymorph
    • 5th Level: Geas, Contagion


    Bonus Cantrips: Curses & Campfires

    At 1st level, you learn the Vicious Mockery and Druidcraft cantrips. They count as warlock cantrips for you, but they don't count against your number of cantrips known.

    Jinx

    At 1st level, you gain the ability to bend ill luck to your benefit. You have a pool of d6s that you spend to fuel these curses. The number of dice in the pool equals your charisma modifier.

    When you see a creature within 60 feet making an attack roll, you can use your reaction to expend a die and subtract the result from the roll. You can do this after the roll, but before any result is declared.

    Your pool regains all expended dice when you finish a long rest.

    Full Moons & Sweeping Brooms

    At 6th level, your coven has taught you ways to stay mobile in a pinch. When you receive damage, you can use your action to gain a flying speed equal to your movement speed. You can immediately move up to your full flying speed. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks. You lose this flying speed at the beginning of your next turn, and will fall if you have not landed on solid ground.

    Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a short or long rest.

    Uncross Your Fingers

    At 10th level, you are very hard to deceive or mislead, due to your dealings with treacherous hags. You can apply twice your proficiency bonus to any roll made to see through illusions or deception.

    Bitter Jinx

    Also at 10th level, your Jinx dice become d8s.

    Coven Sister

    At 14th level, you have been embraced by the hags which you have made your pact with. As an action, you can choose to take a form like their own for one minute. Your game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of a Green Hag. You retain your alignment and your personality.

    You assume the hit points of the Green Hag, and when you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed. If you revert as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your normal form. As long as the excess damage doesn't reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, you aren't knocked unconscious.

    As you are a member of a coven, you get access to the shared spellcasting feature when in this form, and have all the spell slots listed there. Expending spell slots in Hag form has no effect on your slots after you revert.

    You can use this feature once per long rest.


    Spoiler: Second Draft
    Show
    Expanded Spell List
    • 1st Level: Find Familiar, Ray Of Sickness
    • 2nd Level: Moonbeam, OPEN
    • 3rd Level: OPEN
    • 4th Level: OPEN
    • 5th Level: OPEN


    Bonus Cantrips: Curses & Campfires

    At 1st level, you learn the Vicious Mockery and Druidcraft cantrips. They count as warlock cantrips for you, but they don't count against your number of cantrips known.

    Jinx

    At 1st level, you gain the ability to bend luck to your enemies detriment. You have a pool of d6s that you spend to fuel these curses. The number of dice in the pool equals your charisma modifier.

    When a creature within 60 feet of you that you can see makes an attack roll, you can use your reaction to expend a die and subtract the result from the roll. You can use this reaction after the creature rolls the d20, but must decide before the DM says whether the roll succeeds or fails.

    Your pool regains all expended dice when you finish a long rest.

    Swept Away

    At 6th level, your coven has taught you ways to stay mobile in a pinch. When you receive damage, you can use your reaction to fly up to your movement speed. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks. At the beginning of your next turn, you fall unless you use this movement to land on solid ground.

    Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a short or long rest.

    Thrice Fooled

    At 10th level, you are very hard to deceive or mislead, due to your dealings with treacherous hags. Whenever you make a Intelligence (Investigation) or Wisdom (Perception) check to see through illusions, you have advantage on the roll. You also gain advantage to rolls on Wisdom (Insight) checks to see if someone is deceiving or lying to you.

    Bitter Jinx

    Also at 10th level, your Jinx dice become d8s.

    Coven Sister

    At 14th level, you have been embraced by the hags which you have made your pact with. As an action, you can choose to take a form like their own for one minute. Your game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of a Green Hag. You retain your alignment and your personality.

    You assume the hit points of the Green Hag, and when you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed. If you revert as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your normal form. As long as the excess damage doesn't reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, you aren't knocked unconscious.

    As you are a member of a coven, you get access to the shared spellcasting feature when in this form, and have all the spell slots listed there. Expending spell slots in Hag form has no effect on your slots after you revert.

    You can use this feature once per long rest.


    Spoiler: Proposed Final Draft
    Show
    Expanded Spell List
    1. Find Familiar, Ray of Sickness
    2. Animal Messenger, Augury
    3. Clairvoyance, Leomund's Tiny Hut
    4. Divination, Dominate Beast
    5. Awaken, Seeming


    Bonus Cantrips: Curses & Campfires

    At 1st level, you learn the Vicious Mockery and Druidcraft cantrips. They count as warlock cantrips for you, but they don't count against your number of cantrips known.

    Jinx

    Also at 1st level, you gain the ability to bend luck to your enemies detriment. You have a pool of d6s that you spend to fuel these curses. The number of dice in the pool equals your charisma modifier (minimum of one).

    When a creature within 60 feet of you that you can see makes an attack roll, you can use your reaction to expend a die and subtract the result from the roll. You can use this reaction after the creature rolls the d20, but must decide before the DM says whether the roll succeeds or fails.

    Your pool regains all expended dice when you finish a long rest.

    Swept Away

    At 6th level, your coven has taught you ways to stay mobile in a pinch. When you receive damage, you can use your reaction to fly up to your movement speed. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks. At the beginning of your next turn, you fall unless you use this movement to land on a solid surface.

    Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a short or long rest.

    Thrice Fooled

    At 10th level, you are very hard to deceive or mislead, due to your dealings with treacherous hags. Whenever you make a Intelligence (Investigation) or Wisdom (Perception) check to see through illusions, you have advantage on the roll. You also gain advantage to rolls on Wisdom (Insight) checks to see if someone is deceiving or lying to you.

    Bitter Jinx

    Also at 10th level, your Jinx dice become d8s.

    Coven Sister

    At 14th level, you have been embraced by the hags which you have made your pact with. As an action, you can entreat your patron to magically transform you into their form for one hour. Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of a Green Hag. You retain your mental ability scores, alignment and personality.

    You assume the hit points of the Green Hag, and when you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed. If you revert as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your normal form. As long as the excess damage doesn't reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, you aren't knocked unconscious. You can end this transformation using an action.

    You do not gain access to coven features in this form. However, you can still use the Jinx feature, and do not expend any die from your pool to do so. Additionally, while in this form, your Jinx die is a d10.

    You can use this feature once per long rest.


    Spoiler: Patron Exclusive Invocation courtesy of sandmote
    Show
    Witch's Curse
    Prerequisite: 5th level, The Hag Patron

    Expending a warlock spell slot, you curse a target into either a Giant Frog or a Giant Toad. The effects of the transformation act like that of the polymorph spell, with the following exceptions:

    • The effect can only last up to 1 minute.
    • The creature retains its mental statistics.
    • Creatures turned into a Giant Frog retain the ability to cast spells without verbal components.


    Once you use this invocation, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest.

    ----

    I'd like to hear what you all like and don't like in general, but specifically, the expanded spell list. Also curious about other ideas for 10th level feature as I'm sort of scratching my head as to what would fit best there. Thanks in advance!
    Last edited by KOLE; 2018-12-15 at 04:49 PM.
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    Are there toddlers in the monster manual with a printed CR value? I feel like a handful of toddlers would be even better for this.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Pact of the Hag (A more Witchy Warlock path)

    It shouldn't be 'pact of the hag,' unless it's a pact boon, it should be 'the Hag patron.'

    There's a reason deafness/blindness, bestow curse, and polymorph aren't on the warlock spell list, they're super OP with short rest casting.

    Jinx should say 'When a creature within 60 feet of you that you can see makes an attack roll' as the trigger to bring it more in line with the PHB.

    Full moons and sweeping brooms is, as written, useless, because you can't use an action on another creature's turn. Change it to a reaction, and change the wording to 'fly up to your movement speed,' instead of the convoluted wording you have.

    10th level features are good.

    14th level is... interesting, but pretty bad, because it is basically 'once per long rest, wild shape into a CR 3 creature.' Also, what's the point of changing your mental ability scores?

    Basically, I think most of this archetype needs a rework to make playable, and the spell list needs to be changed to prevent it from being OP.

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    Default Re: Pact of the Hag (A more Witchy Warlock path)

    I really appreciate your response. I'm pressed for time tonight or else I'd implement the edits you suggested and draft the class. I apologize for the "Action" typo specifically- that was a poor goof.

    But I am interested in hearing more about the spell list. There were quite a few more flavorful spells that got cut- the only survivor being Leomund's Tiny Hut. It wasn't my intention to create an uberlist. When I look at the relatively small number of spells known the Warlock gets, I generally assume a player isn't going to waste time on utility or flavor spells considering their relatively slim slots and aforementioned small spells known. So I wanted it to be potent, but I also had a theme to consider.

    My goal for the eventual Witch full class, that I hope to demonstrate to a small extent here, is to be a dedicated debuffer, as I see that as a gap in the current full caster lineup. We've got amazing blasters, support, buffers, controllers, healers, gishes, etc. But nobody seems to especially excel at Debuffing other than certain finely tuned bards. So when I went through all the 1st-5th level spells excluding those already on the Warlock spell list, I wanted specifically to pick Debuffs, which were surprisingly hard to find. I also wanted to avoid spells already on the Invocation list, such as Bane and Slow, which left me very few options.

    The only exception to this is Polymorph because that's just so iconic to a Witch. If you're playing a Witch that never has the opportunity to turn someone into a toad, are you even playing a Witch at all?! So I'm more than willing to nerf the Expanded Spells to include more flavorful vs. Optimized options even if they may never get chosen. I'm considering some Divination spells in particular, such as Augury.

    If I removed some of the particularly harsh offenders (I.E., Blindness, Bestow Curse, Geas) would Polymorph be a little more acceptable? I'm considering instead making it a class feature that can be used once per short rest, and only to turn a creature into a CR 0 beast. This would remove the option of buffing allies, balancing it out a little more. Would this be an acceptable alternative to adding the spell to the expanded spell list?
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    Default Re: Pact of the Hag (A more Witchy Warlock path)

    For the expanded spell list, I think Find Familiar is also an issue. After all, it is the main feature of one pact, and a big benefit for a common build of a second one.

    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    Uncross Your FingersAt 10th level, you are very hard to deceive or mislead, due to your dealings with treacherous hags. You can apply twice your proficiency bonus to any roll made to see through illusions or deception.
    I would probably list specific cases when this applies.
    Presumably Investigation checks to discern illusions, Insight checks contested by another creature's Deception check, and possibly on saving throws against illusions (depending on how strong you want this to be).

    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    But I am interested in hearing more about the spell list. There were quite a few more flavorful spells that got cut- the only survivor being Leomund's Tiny Hut. It wasn't my intention to create an uberlist. When I look at the relatively small number of spells known the Warlock gets, I generally assume a player isn't going to waste time on utility or flavor spells considering their relatively slim slots and aforementioned small spells known. So I wanted it to be potent, but I also had a theme to consider.
    When you have the time, could you list these spells? It might be helpful to get a better idea of the theme you're going for.

    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    If I removed some of the particularly harsh offenders (I.E., Blindness, Bestow Curse, Geas) would Polymorph be a little more acceptable? I'm considering instead making it a class feature that can be used once per short rest, and only to turn a creature into a CR 0 beast. This would remove the option of buffing allies, balancing it out a little more. Would this be an acceptable alternative to adding the spell to the expanded spell list?
    That's already an eldritch invocation, so it is probably covered. Sculptor of Flesh, I think?

    You could, however, write another invocation with the prerequisite of having the Hag patron that lets you turn enemies into something that still has some (but little) power. Maybe have the perquisites of having the hag patron, and only be able to turn targets into some moderately powerful toad-themed creatures for up to a minute?

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    Bugbear in the Playground
     
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    Default Re: Pact of the Hag (A more Witchy Warlock path)

    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    If I removed some of the particularly harsh offenders (I.E., Blindness, Bestow Curse, Geas) would Polymorph be a little more acceptable? I'm considering instead making it a class feature that can be used once per short rest, and only to turn a creature into a CR 0 beast. This would remove the option of buffing allies, balancing it out a little more. Would this be an acceptable alternative to adding the spell to the expanded spell list?
    I think making it a class feature would be acceptable, but I would still keep at at once per long rest. There's already a warlock invocation that lets you cast polymorph, as sandmote said.

    Warlocks are difficult to design for because they have a lot more limitations than most subclasses, and they're really easy to make too powerful.

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    Default Re: The Hag Patron (Enter the Witchlock!)

    Thanks everyone for looking this all over, and for your patience! Long week at work but I finally made some revisions and I'm looking for more feedback. Here's the current draft:

    Spoiler: Revised Draft!
    Show
    Expanded Spell List

    1st Level: Find Familiar, Ray Of Sickness
    2nd Level: Moonbeam, OPEN
    3rd Level: OPEN
    4th Level: OPEN
    5th Level: OPEN



    Bonus Cantrips: Curses & Campfires

    At 1st level, you learn the Vicious Mockery and Druidcraft cantrips. They count as warlock cantrips for you, but they don't count against your number of cantrips known.

    Jinx

    At 1st level, you gain the ability to bend luck to your enemies detriment. You have a pool of d6s that you spend to fuel these curses. The number of dice in the pool equals your charisma modifier.

    When a creature within 60 feet of you that you can see makes an attack roll, you can use your reaction to expend a die and subtract the result from the roll. You can use this reaction after the creature rolls the d20, but must decide before the DM says whether the roll succeeds or fails.

    Your pool regains all expended dice when you finish a long rest.

    Swept Away

    At 6th level, your coven has taught you ways to stay mobile in a pinch. When you receive damage, you can use your reaction to fly up to your movement speed. This movement does not provoke opportunity attacks. At the beginning of your next turn, you fall unless you use this movement to land on solid ground.

    Once you use this feature, you can't use it again until you finish a short or long rest.

    Thrice Fooled

    At 10th level, you are very hard to deceive or mislead, due to your dealings with treacherous hags. Whenever you make a Intelligence (Investigation) or Wisdom (Perception) check to see through illusions, you have advantage on the roll. You also gain advantage to rolls on Wisdom (Insight) checks to see if someone is deceiving or lying to you.

    Bitter Jinx

    Also at 10th level, your Jinx dice become d8s.

    Coven Sister

    At 14th level, you have been embraced by the hags which you have made your pact with. As an action, you can choose to take a form like their own for one minute. Your game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of a Green Hag. You retain your alignment and your personality.

    You assume the hit points of the Green Hag, and when you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed. If you revert as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your normal form. As long as the excess damage doesn't reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, you aren't knocked unconscious.

    As you are a member of a coven, you get access to the shared spellcasting feature when in this form, and have all the spell slots listed there. Expending spell slots in Hag form has no effect on your slots after you revert.

    You can use this feature once per long rest.



    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    For the expanded spell list, I think Find Familiar is also an issue. After all, it is the main feature of one pact, and a big benefit for a common build of a second one.
    I would disagree with that. The main feature of the Chain pact is getting very powerful familiars and some of the great invocations that come with them. I don't think an ordinary owl or rat will step on the toes of the Chainlock's invisible Imp. If you're already planning on going Chainlock, you can skip the spell or swap it out at 3rd level.

    I'm definitely trying to avoid redundant features- or features that would make others irrelevant- but Familiar are too iconic to this class to give up. I think a blade or tomelock with a regular familiar pales when compared to all the things the chainlock can pull off.


    I would probably list specific cases when this applies.
    Presumably Investigation checks to discern illusions, Insight checks contested by another creature's Deception check, and possibly on saving throws against illusions (depending on how strong you want this to be).
    Done! I like the saving throw option but wanted the feature be more intuitive and lean more on the social pillar.

    That's already an eldritch invocation, so it is probably covered. Sculptor of Flesh, I think?
    You are correct, and I was aware of it, but I really wanted Polymorph more than once per rest! But I've decided to scrap it and take it off the spell list.

    14th level is... interesting, but pretty bad, because it is basically 'once per long rest, wild shape into a CR 3 creature.' Also, what's the point of changing your mental ability scores?
    Actually a CR 5 with Shared Spellcasting. Changing the mental ability scores is twofold. Hags use Intelligence as their casting stat, which Warlocks tend to dump. This allows them to stay competitive when slinging hag spells. Also prevents trying to get better saves and the like in this form by boosting intelligence at character creation.

    It's funny to me that you think this is lackluster as it's the one option I was afraid would be particularly overpowered. Free spell slots for a minute is a lot, even if it's from a fairly lackluster list. Those claw attacks aren't no joke either, and you still get all the benefits of othershape shenanigans, like temp hp and a decent AC.

    When you have the time, could you list these spells? It might be helpful to get a better idea of the theme you're going for.
    Certainly! Latest draft has many spots labelled as open. The theme is anything Witch-ish. Originally I wanted to stick with Debuf (which is the theme I'm going for here) but I tend to agree that most of the debuffs I like had a good reason to not be on the Warlock spell list anyway, so in keeping with the Witch, I want spells that cover fate/fortune telling (Divination), Illusions, manipulation/charm, and nature/transformation. If there's a not crazy debuff spell, that would be something to consider as well.

    Here's the list of possibilities as it stands:
    1. Identify
    2. animal messenger, augury
    3. Clairvoyance, leomund's tiny hut, glyph of warding
    4. divination, dominate beast, giant insect
    5. awaken, circle of power, commune with nature, geas, seeming


    Most likely not circle of power, but I like the idea at least.

    I'd love to see what you all think of this.
    Last edited by KOLE; 2018-12-15 at 01:27 AM.

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    Default Re: The Hag Patron (Enter the Witchlock!)

    UPDATE:

    I did a more thorough perusing of Green Hags and wow, I didn't realize how many amazing spells are on their shared spellcasting list. Eyebite, bestow curse, polymorph, lightning bolt, hold person... Not to mention a solid AC boost and pretty darn good HP.

    It's also CR 5 which means we get access to that form a level sooner than a Moon Druid will (although they get elemental forms, which are CR 5, at 10 for a higher cost.) It also means we're technically casting True Polymorph three levels early- but not necessarily, as True Polymorph at this level would allow us to transform into a cr-14 creature of our choice for an hour, as opposed to a cr 5 creature for one minute.

    I'm honestly a bit concerned that this may be on the really powerful side and may need to be nerfed. I'm attached to this feature because I think it's very interesting and exciting; it's the kind of iconic ability I as a player would want, but that may be clouding my vision on this. Most level 14 abilities for warlocks are wicked powerful, so I'm not exactly out of line here, but I'm wondering if it's too much. What do you all think? Am I overthinking this?
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    Default Re: The Hag Patron (Enter the Witchlock!)

    Yes, a strong expanded spell list with free casting with no time limit is too powerful.

    Add a 1 minute time limit. Get rid of the 'wildshape' (you can have their appearance change without stats), let them access the shared casting spell list and use its slots (since the really strong spells are all concentration, the time limit also limits the usefulness of the whole smorgasbord.) Nova mode once per day.

    Alternatively keep the wildshape but don't grant the expanded spell list. Still get three cantrips, disguise self and better invisibility at will plus the stats and temp HP. General power boost.

    Or let them access the spell list whenever but with a chance of failure. Use an action to contact the coven, requesting a spell. Make a [check] on success the coven casts the spell for you. On fail the coven ignores you. Balance free spells with wasted turns.
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    Default Re: The Hag Patron (Enter the Witchlock!)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cats View Post
    Yes, a strong expanded spell list with free casting with no time limit is too powerful.
    Er, I think you may have misread. Or perhaps I need to rephrase the ability.

    As you are a member of a coven, you get access to the shared spellcasting feature when in this form, and have all the spell slots listed there.
    You only get the shared spellcasting when in hag form, which is only for one minute once per long rest.
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    Default Re: The Hag Patron (Enter the Witchlock!)

    Yeah, I missed the 'one minute' part.

    Either way: Free, strong spells and a CR5 wildshape is a lot. One or the other would be sufficient. EDIT: Under the assumption you expand the time limit if it's just wildshaping.
    Last edited by The Cats; 2018-12-15 at 02:26 PM.
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    Default Re: The Hag Patron (Enter the Witchlock!)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cats View Post
    Yeah, I missed the 'one minute' part.

    Either way: Free, strong spells and a CR5 wildshape is a lot. One or the other would be sufficient. EDIT: Under the assumption you expand the time limit if it's just wildshaping.
    That's an interesting idea. What if instead of taking on the full form of the hag for one minute once per long rest, you gained their claw attack and the "Shared Spellcasting" feature for one minute? You're getting most of the goodies without the temp HP and possible AC boost. Possibly change the casting stat to Charisma to make it a bit better.
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    Default Re: The Hag Patron (Enter the Witchlock!)

    That sounds cool. My beef with the wildshape was the HP, AC and even more free spells so that'll keep the feel of ability without making you the 'just chill guys, I got this' guy.
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    Default Re: The Hag Patron (Enter the Witchlock!)

    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    I'm definitely trying to avoid redundant features- or features that would make others irrelevant- but Familiar are too iconic to this class to give up. I think a blade or tomelock with a regular familiar pales when compared to all the things the chainlock can pull off.
    Fair enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    You are correct, and I was aware of it, but I really wanted Polymorph more than once per rest! But I've decided to scrap it and take it off the spell list.
    I feel similarly, and have tried to set up another Invocation granting a (limited) second use of Polymorph:
    Witch's Curse
    Prerequisite: 5th level, The Hag Patron

    Expending a warlock spell slot, you curse a target into either a Giant Frog or a Giant Toad. The effects of the transformation act like that of the polymorph spell, with the following exceptions:
    • The effect can only last up to 1 minute.
    • The creature retains its mental stats.
    • Creatures turned into a Giant Frog retain the ability to cast spells without verbal components.

    Once you use this invocation, you can't use it again until you finish a long rest.
    There's one option to stall melee characters, (the Giant Frog) and another option to stall spellcasters (the Giant Toad).

    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    Latest draft has many spots labelled as open. The theme is anything Witch-ish. Originally I wanted to stick with Debuf (which is the theme I'm going for here) but I tend to agree that most of the debuffs I like had a good reason to not be on the Warlock spell list anyway, so in keeping with the Witch, I want spells that cover fate/fortune telling (Divination), Illusions, manipulation/charm, and nature/transformation. If there's a not crazy debuff spell, that would be something to consider as well.

    Here's the list of possibilities as it stands:
    1. Identify
    2. animal messenger, augury
    3. Clairvoyance, leomund's tiny hut, glyph of warding
    4. divination, dominate beast, giant insect
    5. awaken, circle of power, commune with nature, geas, seeming
    Identify seems a bit odd. Otherwise the lower level options look fine. Seeming, awaken, and commune with nature seem fine, although circle of power and geas seem really strong for short rest casting.

    Ray of Sickness might be fine, as the debuff is a side effect and short. Pyrotechnics would likely also be okay, given how weak it is.

    It might also be worth writing spells that work like Hold Person and Hold Monster that stun a target instead of paralyzing them. By default, they would be weaker, but the list of creatures immune of being stunned is far shorter than the one of creatures immune to being paralyzed. Although you could alternatively make such an ability the 10th level feature.

    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    I'm honestly a bit concerned that this may be on the really powerful side and may need to be nerfed. I'm attached to this feature because I think it's very interesting and exciting; it's the kind of iconic ability I as a player would want, but that may be clouding my vision on this. Most level 14 abilities for warlocks are wicked powerful, so I'm not exactly out of line here, but I'm wondering if it's too much. What do you all think? Am I overthinking this?
    I think there's some other limitations on the coven's spellcasting, but don't have that in front of me at the moment.

    Otherwise, I think the once a day, 1 minute duration is fine. You would be able to get your debuffs in, without a serious issue.

    If you're really worried about power, let the subclass transform for longer without granting shared spellcasting. You still get some strong benefits, just mostly out of combat ones (at will invisibility, three cantrips, underwater breathing, mimicry, and at will disguise self) plus that AC boost and bag of hit points. If you change to this, I suggest leaving the mental stats alone, as the Hag's innate spellcasting is charisma based.

    Edit: The Cats' suggestion would also work. I just write slowly, and that entire bit of the conversation happened while I was double-checking.
    Last edited by sandmote; 2018-12-15 at 03:19 PM.

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    Default Re: The Hag Patron (Enter the Witchlock!)

    Everyone, my sincere thanks for all your input. It really means a lot to me that you would take time to look this over and offer advice.

    I talked this over with my DM/best friend. As a DM he tends to be pretty forgiving with rulings and homebrew, which I took into account, but the Shared Spellcasting feature in any capacity really worried him. We ran some math on it and looked at it from a combat perspective and overall think it's a little too strong. He also made the point that free spell slots, even when constrained by a time limit, isn't a feature offered by any other source in official material (other than recover mechanics such as Arcane Recovery or Flexible Casting). So ultimately, I've decided to give it the axe. Using the other excellent suggestions here, I've settled on this:

    Spoiler: 14th level feature revision
    Show

    Coven Sister

    At 14th level, you have been embraced by the hags which you have made your pact with. As an action, you can entreat your patron to magically transform you into their form for one hour. Your game statistics are replaced by the statistics of a Green Hag. You retain your mental ability scores, alignment and personality.

    You assume the hit points of the Green Hag, and when you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed. If you revert as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your normal form. As long as the excess damage doesn't reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, you aren't knocked unconscious. You can end this transformation using an action.

    You do not gain access to coven features in this form. However, you can still use the Jinx feature, and do not expend any die from your pool to do so. Additionally, while in this form, your Jinx die is a d10.

    You can use this feature once per long rest.


    We wanted to add some synergy with existing subclass features. Making Jinx use free gives the cr 3 form a little more action economy use and makes it a little more powerful.

    Also with the input received here, this is my draft to the expanded spell list.

    Spoiler: Expanded Spell List
    Show

    1. Find Familiar, Ray of Sickness
    2. Animal Messenger, Augury
    3. Clairvoyance, Leomund's Tiny Hut
    4. Divination, Dominate Beast
    5. Awaken, Seeming



    Witch's Curse
    Prerequisite: 5th level, The Hag Patron

    Expending a warlock spell slot, you curse a target into either a Giant Frog or a Giant Toad. The effects of the transformation act like that of the polymorph spell, with the following exceptions:

    The effect can only last up to 1 minute.
    The creature retains its mental stats.
    Creatures turned into a Giant Frog retain the ability to cast spells without verbal components.
    I LOVE THIS. Thank you, with your permission I'd like to bundle this as an option with the class.

    It might also be worth writing spells that work like Hold Person and Hold Monster that stun a target instead of paralyzing them. By default, they would be weaker, but the list of creatures immune of being stunned is far shorter than the one of creatures immune to being paralyzed.
    Not a bad idea, but I'd to avoid adding too much custom content to something that's already custom. Make it blend a little more seamlessly into any campaign.
    Last edited by KOLE; 2018-12-15 at 04:12 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert View Post
    Are there toddlers in the monster manual with a printed CR value? I feel like a handful of toddlers would be even better for this.

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    Default Re: The Hag Patron (Enter the Witchlock!)

    "It's not offered by any other source in official material" is a pretty poor reason to nix homebrew. That's the whole dang point of homebrew! Like "Be creative! No, not like that, like this. See?" grumble grumble grumble kids these days grumble
    EDIT: I'm makin a subclass that's ALL ABOUT free spell slots and your DM can fight me if he doesn't like it. That'll show him.
    Last edited by The Cats; 2018-12-15 at 04:26 PM.
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    Default Re: The Hag Patron (Enter the Witchlock!)

    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    I LOVE THIS. Thank you, with your permission I'd like to bundle this as an option with the class.
    I'd prefer some credit somewhere, but I did write it for you to bundle with the subclass.

    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    Not a bad idea, but I'd to avoid adding too much custom content to something that's already custom. Make it blend a little more seamlessly into any campaign.
    That's reasonable, although I'm probably going to add them to the warlock related homebrew I'm working on.

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    Default Re: The Hag Patron (Enter the Witchlock!)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Cats View Post
    "It's not offered by any other source in official material" is a pretty poor reason to nix homebrew. That's the whole dang point of homebrew! Like "Be creative! No, not like that, like this. See?" grumble grumble grumble kids these days grumble
    EDIT: I'm makin a subclass that's ALL ABOUT free spell slots and your DM can fight me if he doesn't like it. That'll show him.
    I'm pretty fresh to homebrewing, so in general I'd like to stick to precedents set in official material to make sure I'm not going too far into the weeds.

    Quote Originally Posted by sandmote View Post
    I'd prefer some credit somewhere, but I did write it for you to bundle with the subclass.
    I made sure to include your name in the spoiler for it on the first post. It's very likely this is the only place that this will ever be posted, so people will see your name first if they are interested in it. If I publish or submit this anywhere else, I'll make sure to run it by you before including it. If I were to enter this in a forum contest, for example, I would not include the invocation as it's not my work.

    If you're not comfortable with that, I will remove it from the first post on this topic. Again, I am very appreciative of your efforts and in no way want to disrespect them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Skylivedk View Post
    I use these forums as my weak DnD crack replacement.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kitten Champion View Post
    The internet is truly a wonderful, thirsty place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lvl 2 Expert View Post
    Are there toddlers in the monster manual with a printed CR value? I feel like a handful of toddlers would be even better for this.

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    Default Re: The Hag Patron (Enter the Witchlock!)

    Quote Originally Posted by KOLE View Post
    I made sure to include your name in the spoiler for it on the first post. It's very likely this is the only place that this will ever be posted, so people will see your name first if they are interested in it. If I publish or submit this anywhere else, I'll make sure to run it by you before including it. If I were to enter this in a forum contest, for example, I would not include the invocation as it's not my work.

    If you're not comfortable with that, I will remove it from the first post on this topic. Again, I am very appreciative of your efforts and in no way want to disrespect them.
    That's probably more blatant than I feel is necessary, but thank you for listing it.

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