Rogue-likes! (not a discussion of the correct use of the term)

[Derjuin]

Decided to make a troll healer in ADOM, and having some incredible luck. Because I'm a horrible miscreant who loves torturing myself, I always start every game as if it's going to be an ultra win - so I always kill either a mugger or beggar first, then immediately dive into the UD. UD:4, there's a surge of power and I nab one Scorched Spear. Not great, but it's an indestructible 1h spear with immunity to cold, so :shrug:

After somehow overcoming the steel golems in the Darkforge at level 14, I managed to score Wyrmlance from the weapons room, and about 30 years of aging from the pools. oof

But a random pool in the CoC granted a wish! AoLS get. Now, Khelavaster's saved, the portal is open below d-town and the ratling's nommed four artifacts. I'm still under level 17, so I can go do the pyramid for even more artifacts (though I'll probably use those) and skip back to Terinyo to spawn the Druid and nab his artifact for the ratling too.

I'm only worried about all the unnatural aging my troll's gotten as potions of youth and longevity have been sparse and I'm lacking Alchemy. Also finding the WoMC and SoD for the crone... though I suppose those things don't need to be done right away. I could wait until after the Casino...

[Sian]

Because I'm a horrible miscreant who loves torturing myself, I always start every game as if it's going to be an ultra win - so I always kill either a mugger or beggar first, then immediately dive into the UD.

My opening gambit when hoping for Ultra is to go trigger giant frogs in the swamp south of holeinthewall, kill one of them (they’re rare enough in dungeons, while still easy to farm if you go for Courage) and flee, followed by generating small cave, and then dive through puppy cave

[zlefin]

Is there a setting in ToME which helps make it extra clear when you're fighting a rare/unique/elite/boss?
most foes are so weak that I don't bother to mouseover them, faster to just plow through. so it's often not too obvious when I'm facing a potentially tough one until I'm a few rounds in.

also been having to deal with a few of them dangerous patrols; pesky since they scale to your level so you can never outlevel them and be safe.

[tyckspoon]

Is there a setting in ToME which helps make it extra clear when you're fighting a rare/unique/elite/boss?
most foes are so weak that I don't bother to mouseover them, faster to just plow through. so it's often not too obvious when I'm facing a potentially tough one until I'm a few rounds in.

also been having to deal with a few of them dangerous patrols; pesky since they scale to your level so you can never outlevel them and be safe.

I don't recall precisely the name of it, but there's a setting you can enable that will frame their sprite with a border appropriate to the tier - blue/purple/gold/etc. I turned it on like forever ago.

..not that it helps, because it just took me from not noticing I was fighting an elite/rare/boss to not noticing that they had Gunslinger talents and had just shot me five times in a single turn until I was already dead.

[Silfir]

Decided to make a troll healer in ADOM, and having some incredible luck. Because I'm a horrible miscreant who loves torturing myself, I always start every game as if it's going to be an ultra win - so I always kill either a mugger or beggar first, then immediately dive into the UD. UD:4, there's a surge of power and I nab one Scorched Spear. Not great, but it's an indestructible 1h spear with immunity to cold, so :shrug:

After somehow overcoming the steel golems in the Darkforge at level 14, I managed to score Wyrmlance from the weapons room, and about 30 years of aging from the pools. oof

But a random pool in the CoC granted a wish! AoLS get. Now, Khelavaster's saved, the portal is open below d-town and the ratling's nommed four artifacts. I'm still under level 17, so I can go do the pyramid for even more artifacts (though I'll probably use those) and skip back to Terinyo to spawn the Druid and nab his artifact for the ratling too.

I'm only worried about all the unnatural aging my troll's gotten as potions of youth and longevity have been sparse and I'm lacking Alchemy. Also finding the WoMC and SoD for the crone... though I suppose those things don't need to be done right away. I could wait until after the Casino...

You're going to do an ultra ending with a troll?

Well, good luck getting to level 45! You're right to worry about unnatural aging - though I suspect corruption might become just as big of an issue, now that background corruption actually increases for every 90 days instead of just once.

It's nothing that finding a random wand of wishing in the casino couldn't fix, but still.

I never worry about ultra endings nowadays. I've done one and now I'm good. They can be grindfests even if you're not trying to get them with a troll. Saving the world is good enough for me.

[factotum]

I don't recall precisely the name of it, but there's a setting you can enable that will frame their sprite with a border appropriate to the tier - blue/purple/gold/etc. I turned it on like forever ago.

I find the pinkish circle around their feet to be enough of an indicator it's a boss, but as you say, knowing it's a boss is only half the battle. Example: my level 23 Anorithil just died to the Grand Corruptor in the Mark of the Spellblaze because I didn't realise that he (a) teleports both of you into Hell for the fight and (b) he heals from the flames while they damage you. I think you have to be a good deal higher level than I was to have much of a chance, unless you have some way to Silence him.

I did unlock Ogres, though, so that's another experiment to put into the inevitable treadmill and see how long before they die...

[tyckspoon]

I find the pinkish circle around their feet to be enough of an indicator it's a boss, but as you say, knowing it's a boss is only half the battle. Example: my level 23 Anorithil just died to the Grand Corruptor in the Mark of the Spellblaze because I didn't realise that he (a) teleports both of you into Hell for the fight and (b) he heals from the flames while they damage you. I think you have to be a good deal higher level than I was to have much of a chance, unless you have some way to Silence him.

Oh, yeah, the Fearscape + counts-as-a-demon thing is one of the signature Corruptor tricks. It's really resource-intensive (Fearscape costs a lot to cast, then it has a scaling cost to maintain, plus the sustain cost of the sustain you need to count as a demon so you heal from it) but NPCs get to cheat a lot of that. For Grand Corruptor you know he's gonna try it (I think it's scripted to do it at about half health), so if possible you want to try to reserve some important cooldowns for it so you can try to burst him when he does it. Having a good movement ability on hand is also useful so you can chase him down quickly and reduce the number of turns you waste walking across the Fearscape.

It does also count as an Arcane sustain - if you have a way to remove sustains you can end it early with that, or if you have some way to disable action hold off on using it until you're near the trigger point for it and then apply your Stun/Silence/Confuse/whatever.

[zlefin]

I find the pinkish circle around their feet to be enough of an indicator it's a boss, but as you say, knowing it's a boss is only half the battle. Example: my level 23 Anorithil just died to the Grand Corruptor in the Mark of the Spellblaze because I didn't realise that he (a) teleports both of you into Hell for the fight and (b) he heals from the flames while they damage you. I think you have to be a good deal higher level than I was to have much of a chance, unless you have some way to Silence him.

I did unlock Ogres, though, so that's another experiment to put into the inevitable treadmill and see how long before they die...

I think defeating him at 23 is quite feasible; but alot probably depends on class and setup. pretty sure I was that level and didn't have silence.
I imagine when I get to my 2nd char I'll be in for quite a deadly surprise, as I'm so used to the bulwark's tankiness.

[Winthur]

Decided to make a troll healer in ADOM,

Ultra ending? Oh boy, be prepared to wish for Emperor Moloch a lot...

[factotum]

For Grand Corruptor you know he's gonna try it (I think it's scripted to do it at about half health)

Something must have changed, because he took me to Hell literally as soon as the fight started--I don't think I'd shaved even one of his 2000 hit points off.

[Anteros]

Something must have changed, because he took me to Hell literally as soon as the fight started--I don't think I'd shaved even one of his 2000 hit points off.

I feel like I've killed him without him getting the ability off before as well.

[Derjuin]

You're going to do an ultra ending with a troll?

Well, good luck getting to level 45! You're right to worry about unnatural aging - though I suspect corruption might become just as big of an issue, now that background corruption actually increases for every 90 days instead of just once.

It's nothing that finding a random wand of wishing in the casino couldn't fix, but still.

I never worry about ultra endings nowadays. I've done one and now I'm good. They can be grindfests even if you're not trying to get them with a troll. Saving the world is good enough for me.

Ultra ending? Oh boy, be prepared to wish for Emperor Moloch a lot...

Yeah, I've considered the XP issues. I've won with a troll before, though she only got to around level 39 by D:50. I just hope I find enough wishes to get the XP for 45; aside from XP, I might do a few buyouts in the potion shop in the Order encampment to hopefully find more potions of youth/longevity*. Selling wyrmlance for now might be a good idea...

*Unless the stack method of restocking still works, but I think it was removed? I forget when though.

[Rodin]

In other Rogue-like news, I've finally managed to score a win on Streets of Rogue. Went with a Soldier and got the utterly broken combo of the Kill Healthenizer, Ammunizer, and Profiter so that every kill was providing healing ammo and money to buy more healing/ammo.

Naturally, with that loadout I went straight for the ultra-violence. I was so hated by the final level that I think I would have lost the election to Satan's personal lawyer. So I just shot the current mayor with a Rocket Launcher, declared myself King and Tyrant for life, and then held a dance party. It's that kind of game.

Now to try and win with everybody actually liking me. This could prove...difficult. The Comedian has promise but he's such a wimp in later chapters if you get caught up in an actual fight.

Favorite way I've completed a mission thus far: Tapping on the window to get a Blahd Gangster to look out right as a squad of Crepe Gangsters are strolling past, causing a bloody firefight that allowed me to stroll up and pluck the quest item off the Blahd's corpse (as well as the items of the Crepe Gangsters who promptly got in a fight with the police after they finished off the poor Blahd).

And possibly my favorite patch note of all time in the most recent update:

Killer Robot can no longer shoot while tripping on a banana peel.

Sums it all up, really.

[Wookieetank]

In other Rogue-like news, I've finally managed to score a win on Streets of Rogue. Went with a Soldier and got the utterly broken combo of the Kill Healthenizer, Ammunizer, and Profiter so that every kill was providing healing ammo and money to buy more healing/ammo.

Naturally, with that loadout I went straight for the ultra-violence. I was so hated by the final level that I think I would have lost the election to Satan's personal lawyer. So I just shot the current mayor with a Rocket Launcher, declared myself King and Tyrant for life, and then held a dance party. It's that kind of game.

Now to try and win with everybody actually liking me. This could prove...difficult. The Comedian has promise but he's such a wimp in later chapters if you get caught up in an actual fight.

Favorite way I've completed a mission thus far: Tapping on the window to get a Blahd Gangster to look out right as a squad of Crepe Gangsters are strolling past, causing a bloody firefight that allowed me to stroll up and pluck the quest item off the Blahd's corpse (as well as the items of the Crepe Gangsters who promptly got in a fight with the police after they finished off the poor Blahd).

And possibly my favorite patch note of all time in the most recent update:

Killer Robot can no longer shoot while tripping on a banana peel.

Sums it all up, really.

I think I'm gonna have to look into this game for the humor alone, sounds like a romping good time.

[factotum]

Trying out Ogres in ToME. First one I tried didn't last long--set him up as an Arcane Blade, and I absolutely hated the class. A class that seems to rely on magic for most of their damage, but you can only regen mana from the basic +X mana on a manasurge rune, is most definitely not for me. After he died in only the second dungeon I went into I rolled up an ogre Reaver instead, and I'm having a much better time of it with that--it's really not hard to maintain Vim levels, they have some pretty good ranged damage, and can still survive well in melee.

[Anteros]

Trying out Ogres in ToME. First one I tried didn't last long--set him up as an Arcane Blade, and I absolutely hated the class. A class that seems to rely on magic for most of their damage, but you can only regen mana from the basic +X mana on a manasurge rune, is most definitely not for me. After he died in only the second dungeon I went into I rolled up an ogre Reaver instead, and I'm having a much better time of it with that--it's really not hard to maintain Vim levels, they have some pretty good ranged damage, and can still survive well in melee.

Arcane blade is my favorite class. You basically never have mana issues with this class past the early game because everything is simply dead within a few rounds, or you're retreating. Their damage is very front loaded and they are fairly weak in the early game, but probably the strongest class (outside of adventurer) late. They also basically require the stone unlock for killing Harkor'Zun as it's many times more suited to their skill set than the other options. An arcane blade with projection weapons and the right setup can clear out an entire room in one or two swings. I also think they benefit heavily from being Shalore...but so does every other class as well. Game is not balanced yo.

[factotum]

I prefer my difficulty to be back-loaded, not front-loaded, so I don't think I'll be doing an Arcane Blade again. I might try a Shadowblade to see if I like them any better.

[Cespenar]

So, I'm playing a Dwarven Solipsist but (for some reason) only focusing on the Dream Smithing, Thought-Forms and similar trees. No Slumbers, no Nightmares, etc.

Plays basically like Green Lantern. Pretty beefy and safe, much more than I expected. The level 5 Thought-Form can really hold itself in battle.

[Rodin]

I think I'm gonna have to look into this game for the humor alone, sounds like a romping good time.

The game's a hoot, and you can wind up with a lot of funny situations. What I find brings me back to it the most though is the many different ways you can solve problems that vary based on class, inventory, how much money you have, etc., etc.

Take the example up there I used with the Blahd Gangster hanging out in his hideout that I have to Neutralize (a.k.a. get rid of). I could...

1) Bust in guns blazing and kill everybody.
2) Sneak through and use a silenced gun to put a few bullets in him with none being the wiser.
3) As an Assassin, turn invisible and walk up behind him and go all Altair on him.
4) As a Cop, knock politely on the door, arrest whoever answers, then sneak through handcuffing everybody.
5) As a fellow Blahd Gangster, I can just stroll in and tell the dude there's a hit out on him so that he leaves town.
6) Bribe the Bouncer on the front door so that I'm allowed inside, then go tell the guy to skip town like above.
7) Pour Cyanide into the air intakes so everybody in the building dies.
8) Hack the security system so his own gun turrets shoot him.
9) As a Comedian, knock on doors and windows and tell jokes at the guys inside until they all like me. Or, maybe they think I'm not funny and they hate me, so I sic my groupies on them instead.
10) If there's a Killer Robot about, stand in front of the wall to the room he's in and then dodge rockets.

And so on. There's a huge amount of depth to the playstyles, and the variations from run to run are endless. And that's without considering the Mutators you can put on like Rogue-Vision which gives the game a Fog-of-War that totally changes how you play it.

[factotum]

So, I'm playing a Dwarven Solipsist but (for some reason) only focusing on the Dream Smithing, Thought-Forms and similar trees. No Slumbers, no Nightmares, etc.

I've never even seen the zone spawn that you need in order to unlock Solipsist, but then, I've only had maybe 3 or 4 characters ever get above level 20, and I've certainly never done that with a Yeek.

Speaking of Yeek--what's the easiest way to unlock the Mindslayer? I know what I have to do (save the Yeek at the bottom of the halfling ruins while playing as one), but the problem is that a Yeek is only level 7 or 8 when they get there, and using Phase Door to teleport the other Yeek away didn't work when I tried it as an Archmage.

[Corlindale]

Easiest way is to Recall to the surface immediately upon entering the ruins and return when you are higher level :-)

[tyckspoon]

I've never even seen the zone spawn that you need in order to unlock Solipsist, but then, I've only had maybe 3 or 4 characters ever get above level 20, and I've certainly never done that with a Yeek.

Speaking of Yeek--what's the easiest way to unlock the Mindslayer? I know what I have to do (save the Yeek at the bottom of the halfling ruins while playing as one), but the problem is that a Yeek is only level 7 or 8 when they get there, and using Phase Door to teleport the other Yeek away didn't work when I tried it as an Archmage.

Use a class with at least two strong first-level skills, try to nuke Subject Z as quickly as possible, and hope the Wayist manages to survive or Subject Z decides to retarget to you. It helps if one of those skills is a stun - for example, Berserker, max Rush and their basic attack skill, Rush Subject Z as soon as you see him and try to Stun him, then you get a few rounds to try to cut him down before he starts doing anything too crazy.

..or Recall out of there and go do Derth Arena and another first-tier dungeon or two, yeah. The Halfling Ruins are kind of a pain to go up through at low level anyway.

[Techwarrior]

So, I have an absolutely amazing RimWorld story to tell. Tiger, Luddite was my Constructor and was replacing a stone door in the outer wall after a raid. No big deal right?

I then get the message "Tiger is being hunted by a grizzly bear," and I slam the pause button immediately and go look. She's already in Melee with this bear. For some background, Tiger has a non-existant Melee skill, but has a legendary assault rifle and the best shooting skill of the colony. I believe at this point she had an 18 shooting. So, if this bear had gone after her at any kind of range she would have absolutely destroyed it.

The entire rest of the colony is on the other side of the map bringing in the harvest and it's midwinter, so there's thick snow everywhere. By the time the colonists get over to her, she's downed and literally being eaten by a grizzly. Colonists start shooting the grizzly to get it off Tiger, and one colonist starts kiting it, the second is shooting, and my doctor is free to rescue Tiger. Let's pause and take a look at her injuries.

Tiger is bleeding out in less than one hour, has lost both arms, both eyes, and an ear!

I immediately set a medical sleeping spot on the ground, turn her medicine down to none, and set Mueller to tend her. Meanwhile Tiger's husband Blue and my last colonist is fending off the bear.

Mueller manages to stabilize Tiger and we down the bear. So I look about starting prosthetics research.

Research finishes, and I don't have a machining table at this point. I set the table to be built, and then take a quick look around my other colonists' skills.

0 Construction for 5 colonists, and her husband Blue has 2. This is much less than the requirement for a machining table. So no prosthetics. We then get offered a bandit quest with a Healer Mech Serum as the reward. 8 bandits, 4 turrets...

I can afford three colonists, so Blue spearheads a strike team to get Tiger a Healer Mech Serum. It's tough, but by hitting at night so the solar generators don't power the turrets and with careful micro, we manage to get the camp cleared. Tiger now has one arm and can fumble way through putting together a machining table. She gets a prosthetic arm shortly afterwards.

Blue has taken over the majority of the construction work, as Tiger is still blind. He has no passion for the work, but it needs to be done and Tiger struggles to finish anything while blind and with a prosthetic arm. Their opinion of each other keeps going up though (Blue is Transhumanist). Blue eventually puts together an advanced fabrication bench and we start putting together bionic parts.

Blue and Tiger eventually put together the ship as a team. Tiger lost her real arm again, and would end the game with 2 bionic arms, 2 eyes, and a cochlear implant. Her nose was never fixed, but I don't believe there's a vanilla way to do that without a Mech Serum.

Blue and Tiger stayed strong as a couple, and Blue ended the game with 16 construction without a passion for it. Just goes to show what love can do I guess.

[Anteros]

I prefer my difficulty to be back-loaded, not front-loaded, so I don't think I'll be doing an Arcane Blade again. I might try a Shadowblade to see if I like them any better.

Fair enough. I enjoy the feeling of progression of my character getting stronger. Plus, there are still plenty of very hard fights in the end game.

[factotum]

OK, legit fuming right now. It's been a while since ToME decided to kick me in the nethers, but when it chose to do so this time it really went all out. Basically, I was on level 3 of the sandworm lair with my level 14 Reaver, hadn't found the sandworm queen yet, and opened a golden chest. A golden chest that turned out to be guarded by a level 18 sandworm boss. A sandworm boss who was *far* tougher than the Queen herself--he had something like 1800 life, and while I could whittle away at that a bit before Teleporting to somewhere safer, he always seemed to have recovered some of his life when he found me again. Eventually there came the point where my shield, phase door and teleportation runes were all down when he had me in a corner, and I died. Never even came *close* to killing the swine. It's been a while since I've shouted obscenities at a computer game, but that totally had me doing it.

[zlefin]

ToME: fighting the prides now; they're tough, even lost a couple more lives to various things, and had to flee from many fo the prides; I'm also being too reckless.
having to do some farming at the exploratory far-portal to gain levels to better face the prides.

[Cespenar]

OK, legit fuming right now. It's been a while since ToME decided to kick me in the nethers, but when it chose to do so this time it really went all out. Basically, I was on level 3 of the sandworm lair with my level 14 Reaver, hadn't found the sandworm queen yet, and opened a golden chest. A golden chest that turned out to be guarded by a level 18 sandworm boss. A sandworm boss who was *far* tougher than the Queen herself--he had something like 1800 life, and while I could whittle away at that a bit before Teleporting to somewhere safer, he always seemed to have recovered some of his life when he found me again. Eventually there came the point where my shield, phase door and teleportation runes were all down when he had me in a corner, and I died. Never even came *close* to killing the swine. It's been a while since I've shouted obscenities at a computer game, but that totally had me doing it.

Chest guards can often be tougher than named bosses, so I'd avoid them in the early game, where one's build hasn't yet come out on its own.

Case in point, just got two-shotted by a chest guard myself, at level 16 in the Maze.

[factotum]

Chest guards can often be tougher than named bosses, so I'd avoid them in the early game, where one's build hasn't yet come out on its own.

Case in point, just got two-shotted by a chest guard myself, at level 16 in the Maze.

I think that's the first time in half a dozen runs I've even come close to getting killed by a chest guardian, and the problem is, the early game is when you really need that sweet, sweet loot. I acknowledge it was probably a mistake opening that chest *before* dealing with the Sandworm Queen, because it meant I *had* to go back into that level and face the chest guardian--if it had been a regular level of a dungeon, or I'd already killed the Queen, I could have just left and never gone back.

[Anteros]

I think that's the first time in half a dozen runs I've even come close to getting killed by a chest guardian, and the problem is, the early game is when you really need that sweet, sweet loot. I acknowledge it was probably a mistake opening that chest *before* dealing with the Sandworm Queen, because it meant I *had* to go back into that level and face the chest guardian--if it had been a regular level of a dungeon, or I'd already killed the Queen, I could have just left and never gone back.

Yeah, you always clear the area first, and you always have an exit plan in case something particularly nasty spawns. Even then, I still die to them sometimes.

[factotum]

I created another Yeek Archmage, used the Rod of Recall to escape the halfling ruins, and then went back in at level 14 and killed Subject Z...enclosing him in a block of ice at the start of the fight definitely helped there. So, have unlocked Mindslayer. Probably going to delete the Archmage, though, because I'm not very happy with how I built him.