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  1. - Top - End - #61
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Spell Slot Recovery Handbook 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Simth View Post
    Spoiler: Dragon-blooded Wizard 17 with Arcane Disciple and Arcane Spellsurge: Barely enough
    Show

    Arcane Disciple means we have Heal as a 6th level spell, and dragon-blooded means we can cast Arcane Spellsurge as a swift action. Note that Arcane Spellsurge lasts for 17 rounds. Time Stop has an average duration of 3.5 rounds, so on average Arcane Spellsurge will last 4.86 iterations of Time Stop. So anything relating to Arcane Spellsurge in the below could be Heal 3.86 out of 4.86 times (on average). To mostly account for that, I'll only put Arcane Spellsurge in one of the four entries; should be enough to keep it constant (on average).
    Time Stop rolls:
    2 rounds: Recover Time Stop (std), cast Arcane Spellsurge (swift), cast Heal (Swift), cast Time Stop (std): net: -1 6th, -1 7th, +69 hp
    3 rounds: Recover Time Stop (std), recover Arcane Spellsurge (std), cast Heal (Swift), cast Time Stop (Std): Net -1 6th, +1 7th, +20 hp
    4 rounds: Recover Time Stop (Std), recover Heal (std), recover heal (Std), cast Heal (Swift), cast Time Stop (Std): Net: +1 6th, -3 hp
    5 rounds: Recover Time Stop (std), recover Heal (Std), recover Arbitrary 9th (std), cast Heal (swift), Recover Heal (Std), cast Time Stop (std): Net: +1 9th, +1 6th, -84 hp.

    Totaling those up, we've gained net 1 9th level spell slot, and 8 hp. This could loop until the dice hate you enough to line up net losses in excess of your reserves.

    Note that you get your standard action you used to kick it off back at the end - just ready an action for when the time stop ends to do whatever-it-was.
    If you make maximize spell be free metamagic when applied to Time Stop then it can go on forever (except perhaps for aging effects). This should be possible at 18th level via arcane thesis (Time Stop), Maximize spell, Invisible spell, and Cooperative Spell. Altogether, this provides a somewhat earlier/easier solution than the Clockwork Wizard (uses Absorption rather than the Dread Emperor Belt)

    You might also drop Arcane Spellsurge and instead use Shapechange[Chronotryrn] for Dual Actions. This leaves indefinite 2-round Time Stops available and operates as of level 17.
    Spoiler: 2 round Time Stop
    Show

    Standard 1: Recover Time Stop
    Dual Standard 1: Cast Heal
    Standard 2: Recover Heal
    Dual Standard 2: Cast Time Stop
    (HP+33, Shapechange-2 rounds)

    Standard 1: Recover Time Stop
    Dual Standard 1: Cast Heal
    Standard 2: Cast Shapechange
    Dual Standard 2: Cast Time Stop
    (HP+69, Shapechange+1700 rounds)

    Standard 1: Recover Time Stop
    Dual Standard 1: Cast Heal
    Standard 2: Recover Shapechange
    Dual Standard 2: Cast Time Stop
    (HP-12, Shapechange-2 rounds)

    Maybe an Ur-Priest could trigger this even earlier?
    ExFighter: Immunity to Wizard
    Stutter Caster: Eliminate all spell defenses (SR, Save, AC).
    The Clockwork Wizard: All spells in no time.
    Piercing Immunities: Uncounterable Counters.
    Planar Soldiers of Mystra: Invincibility from planar traits.
    A Core Only Fighter 20 that kills things

  2. - Top - End - #62
    Troll in the Playground
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    Default Re: Spell Slot Recovery Handbook 3.5

    About the Elder Druid and Immolate Body-induced aging: how about the True Dragon Elder Druid? Or Phaerimm Elder Druid?

  3. - Top - End - #63
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Spell Slot Recovery Handbook 3.5

    Sorry for not updating yesterday, it unexpectedly became a super busy day but today I have all day free so I can work on it now.


    Quote Originally Posted by Thurbane View Post
    Luckstealer PrC (RotW p.118): Desperate Recall ability. Up to 3/day use up some of your Luck Pool to recall a spell or spell slot that you just expended.

    Not exactly recovering a spell, but the Lyric Spell feat (CAd p.113) allows you to expend uses of Bardic Music to cast a spell without expending a spell slot.
    Hmm interesting, will add soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruethgar View Post
    This my be a bit derivative but thought I should mention it. Epic Destiny Artifact Lords and staff wizards can restore spells by recharging magic items of Mnemonic Enhancer or others. Clerics of Magic who get the improved domain can squeeze out some bonus magic item charges per day.

    And while not exactly restoring your own spell slots, Iím sure you could find a way to abuse Imbue with Spell Ability to get higher level spells for lower cost. Teach them Sanctum or metamagiced versions since it only goes off spell level, why prepare Mass Lesser Vigor when you can spend 1 level higher slot to teach an ally two Chain Vigors and a Sanctum Mass Lesser Vigor?
    Improved domain? Where is that from? I'll look into the epic destinies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruethgar View Post
    Carry around a Spell Clock of Mnemonic Enhancer(Prepare), a little less grey than the guidelines for custom repeating spell traps(which is another option for infinite recovery). Also, because clocks and traps can be architectural features, you could Lucid Dream(DC 20) Gate traps and Transdimensional(Unapproachable East) Mnemonic Enhancer clocks any number of ways to apply them there-after.
    Looks interesting. Will add.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack_Simth View Post
    Stepping through this....

    Cleric-11. Heal is a 6th level spell.
    Use Belt of the Dread Emperor (chain to yourself), to recover a 6th level spell slot: Take 36 damage. Running total: 1 6th recovered, 36 damage.
    Do it again: Take another 36 damage. Running total: 2 6ths recovered, 72 damage.
    Recover another 6th: Take 36 damage. Running total: 3 6ths recovered, 108 damage.
    Cast Heal (6th level spell). Recover 110 hit points at the cost of a 6th level slot. Running total: Net +2 6th level spells, +2 HP, over four rounds. It only gets better as you level.

    Spoiler: Cleric-17, Trickery domain: Not good enough
    Show
    Heal caps off at 150 hp, but that's fine; a 9th is 81 HP, a 6th is 36. 81 + 36=117, you're still ahead. Can we do this forever in a Time Stop?
    Time Stop grants 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Via Readied Action, you can cast Time Stop just as a Time Stop ends - provided that (after casting) you know how long it will last. I will (for this exercise) assume that you have that information after you've cast the Time Stop. If you don't, this chain of logic is not valid.
    Even probability on a Time Stop of each set of rounds (actions not listed in order! Re-cast Time Stop goes last, otherwise order is irrelevant)
    2 rounds: Standard to recover the 9th, standard to re-cast Time Stop. We've lost 81 HP at net 0 spell slots.
    3 rounds: Standard to recover the 9th, standard to re-cast Time Stop, standard to Heal. We've lost 1 6th spell slot, but gained 150 - 81 = 69 hp.
    4 rounds: Standard to recover the 9th, standard to re-cast Time Stop, standard to recover 6th, standard to Heal. Net 0 spell slots, gained 150 - 81 - 36 = 33 hp
    5 rounds: Standard to recover the 9th, standard to re-cast Time Stop, Standard to recover 6th, standard to recover 6th, standard to Heal. Net +1 6th level slot, net loss −3 hp (150 - (36 + 36 + 81))

    Total across all four possibilities: Net 0 spell slots, 18 hp. We don't recover spell slots overall, but we can (on average) keep it up forever, and regain 18 HP. Not good enough. We get our standard action back when we're done, though, so that's a good thing. Whenever we start our turn, we can (on average) fully heal for free.



    Spoiler: Dragon-blooded Wizard 17 with Arcane Disciple and Arcane Spellsurge: Barely enough
    Show

    Arcane Disciple means we have Heal as a 6th level spell, and dragon-blooded means we can cast Arcane Spellsurge as a swift action. Note that Arcane Spellsurge lasts for 17 rounds. Time Stop has an average duration of 3.5 rounds, so on average Arcane Spellsurge will last 4.86 iterations of Time Stop. So anything relating to Arcane Spellsurge in the below could be Heal 3.86 out of 4.86 times (on average). To mostly account for that, I'll only put Arcane Spellsurge in one of the four entries; should be enough to keep it constant (on average).
    Time Stop rolls:
    2 rounds: Recover Time Stop (std), cast Arcane Spellsurge (swift), cast Heal (Swift), cast Time Stop (std): net: -1 6th, -1 7th, +69 hp
    3 rounds: Recover Time Stop (std), recover Arcane Spellsurge (std), cast Heal (Swift), cast Time Stop (Std): Net -1 6th, +1 7th, +20 hp
    4 rounds: Recover Time Stop (Std), recover Heal (std), recover heal (Std), cast Heal (Swift), cast Time Stop (Std): Net: +1 6th, -3 hp
    5 rounds: Recover Time Stop (std), recover Heal (Std), recover Arbitrary 9th (std), cast Heal (swift), Recover Heal (Std), cast Time Stop (std): Net: +1 9th, +1 6th, -84 hp.

    Totaling those up, we've gained net 1 9th level spell slot, and 8 hp. This could loop until the dice hate you enough to line up net losses in excess of your reserves.

    Note that you get your standard action you used to kick it off back at the end - just ready an action for when the time stop ends to do whatever-it-was.


    So... there you go. A feat, a racial pick, and a few spells known. Does not require any specific items other than the Belt of the Dread Emporer. Permits you to recover all of your spell slots (or nearly so) at-will on your turn.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anthrowhale View Post
    If you make maximize spell be free metamagic when applied to Time Stop then it can go on forever (except perhaps for aging effects). This should be possible at 18th level via arcane thesis (Time Stop), Maximize spell, Invisible spell, and Cooperative Spell. Altogether, this provides a somewhat earlier/easier solution than the Clockwork Wizard (uses Absorption rather than the Dread Emperor Belt)

    You might also drop Arcane Spellsurge and instead use Shapechange[Chronotryrn] for Dual Actions. This leaves indefinite 2-round Time Stops available and operates as of level 17.
    Spoiler: 2 round Time Stop
    Show

    Standard 1: Recover Time Stop
    Dual Standard 1: Cast Heal
    Standard 2: Recover Heal
    Dual Standard 2: Cast Time Stop
    (HP+33, Shapechange-2 rounds)

    Standard 1: Recover Time Stop
    Dual Standard 1: Cast Heal
    Standard 2: Cast Shapechange
    Dual Standard 2: Cast Time Stop
    (HP+69, Shapechange+1700 rounds)

    Standard 1: Recover Time Stop
    Dual Standard 1: Cast Heal
    Standard 2: Recover Shapechange
    Dual Standard 2: Cast Time Stop
    (HP-12, Shapechange-2 rounds)

    Maybe an Ur-Priest could trigger this even earlier?
    I'll look into both of those regarding time stop, heal and belt and see how I can improve it to be more efficient and hopefully cost effective, then I'll add it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShurikVch View Post
    About the Elder Druid and Immolate Body-induced aging: how about the True Dragon Elder Druid? Or Phaerimm Elder Druid?
    I'll look into that later.

  4. - Top - End - #64
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Spell Slot Recovery Handbook 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by flappeercraft View Post
    I'll look into both of those regarding time stop, heal and belt and see how I can improve it to be more efficient and hopefully cost effective, then I'll add it.
    It looks like an Ur-Priest might be able to succeed as early as level 14 through picking up Scalykind for Shapechange via Wearer of Purple 1 and Celerity for Time Stop via Contemplative 1.

    Wealth by level might be an obstacle. It's 150K at 14th level, but if you obey the 'no item more than half of wealth' restriction, then you have to wait until 16th level.
    ExFighter: Immunity to Wizard
    Stutter Caster: Eliminate all spell defenses (SR, Save, AC).
    The Clockwork Wizard: All spells in no time.
    Piercing Immunities: Uncounterable Counters.
    Planar Soldiers of Mystra: Invincibility from planar traits.
    A Core Only Fighter 20 that kills things

  5. - Top - End - #65
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Ruethgar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Spell Slot Recovery Handbook 3.5

    Improved Domain Power Dragon Magazine 342 p21 can be accessed via feat, giving up two domain powers(presumably Cloistered could keep one), giving up turning, and getting a 20k holy symbol... there doesnít seem to be anything stopping all 4 at once. For the Magic domain it is 1 charge per two cleric levels per iteration of the ability so what amounts to 2 charges per level.

  6. - Top - End - #66
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    AssassinGuy

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    Default Re: Spell Slot Recovery Handbook 3.5

    Quote Originally Posted by Ruethgar View Post
    Improved Domain Power Dragon Magazine 342 p21 can be accessed via feat, giving up two domain powers(presumably Cloistered could keep one), giving up turning, and getting a 20k holy symbol... there doesnít seem to be anything stopping all 4 at once. For the Magic domain it is 1 charge per two cleric levels per iteration of the ability so what amounts to 2 charges per level.
    Well those are more like access to the ability, I'm pretty sure it would not stack just like 4 iterations of the same feat would not stack.

  7. - Top - End - #67
    Ogre in the Playground
     
    Ruethgar's Avatar

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    Default Re: Spell Slot Recovery Handbook 3.5

    Regardless of how itís ruled. 10 free wand uses per day would be quite nice. Or just a cleric dip(a common thing) for a +1 eternal wand charge per day.

    Edit: Also, prepare Sanctum 0 level spells with Mnamnotic Enhancer. Because they are not being cast, they are spell level -1. How many spell levels can you prepare now?
    Last edited by Ruethgar; 2019-01-01 at 04:58 PM.

  8. - Top - End - #68
    Pixie in the Playground
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    Default Re: Spell Slot Recovery Handbook 3.5

    Has anyone looked at the combo : Staff of mage lucubration + unfetered heroism spell + wand surge (this feat work also with staff) it doesn't help completely recover all level of spells but you basically have unlimited level 5 and - spells, even without persistent cheese

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